>>108632956
it's called giving equity
but this bourgeois exploiter would never do that

>>108632998
yeah, but if you give like 1% that's literally a spit in the face. On the other hand, if I give some employee, who might even quit after some time and whom I'm paying, 20% he might then also stop being productive after a while. I mean you just never know how excited someone is and if it's on the same or similar level to you. I see what you're saying, but equity doesn't magically solve the enthusiasm problem. Also Blow pays people a lot and out of his own pocket. I say it's cool to shit on some evil corpo CEO like Altman, but John and other employers like himself, who pay people out of their own pocket don't deserve this hate.

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>>108632956

When you hire someone to work for you hourly, you set up this dichotomy:

You benefit from them working as much as possible while paying them the least amount of hours

They benefit from them working the least amount possible while making the most amount of hours.

Sure, there's things you can do to negate that, like bonuses, or dangling promotions in front of them. But this is a fundamental fact of wage labour, especially when you're a dumb fuck like the one in OP's image. Nothing saps motivation like knowing the guy you work for is a moron.

>>108633037
dude, Blow is just autistic and he does care about his craft, so give him that. Yes, he might be a giant pain in the ass, but for $200k you might as well take it for a year or two. Also you obviously haven't worked for complete morons, there exist much worse morons.

but anyway, I'm not arguing employment is even a good idea. I feel like if you care about the art and craft like Blow, it's a non starter, so just don't hire. That might have been his mistake. And mine, to an extent.

>>108633037
I dont hire people and pay them a wage.

>>108632956
>, I just wish there was a way for us to work as a group and be equally as excited,
>but I am the owner of the IP, patents and will get the recurring profits

>>108633079
yeah but communism doesn't work either, so what's your suggestion?

>>108633037
you have to be willing to tard wrangle employees into doing what you want, with the carrots you mentioned and the stick of firing them for not achieving expected goals you tell them. Modern management seems to be totally afraid to manage, treating employees like friends instead of employees. The same way some parents treat their kids like friends, not children in need of instruction. Entrepreneurs will blame this on there being no good employees to hire, but it's actually that there's no good mangers.

>>108633090
equity or profit sharing
you were told and already knew that
but you will never do it
because what you want is to exploit people

>>108632998
>>108633079
>>108633124
You start a video game company where everyone "shares" everything. See how fast it falls apart.

>>108633124
retarded take, I don't want to exploit people and the idea of me making money at their expense or using their labor isn't something I enjoy, I would probably never do it again even if I had an opportunity. I don't understand what's wrong with you and why are you angry at me for having spent money out of my own pocket, and not a small amount of money, employing people. I don't live rich and I'm not rich.

>>108632956
He's a retard that whines he cant pay experienced developers slave wages to work on a custom engine with a work in progress programming language. Meanwhile he lives in one of the most expensive cities in Colorado driving luxury cars and traveling all the time.

>>108633186
well, okay, but $200k isn't a slave wage. I'll give you that one thing that working on a custom game engine which is some autist pet project is probably not the most exciting place to work and will probably be extremely difficult psychologically. But that's why I said perhaps hiring is the wrong paradigm for things like this.

I don't see anything wrong with him living where he can afford and driving cars he can afford. Like at least he's not doing some evil things and deserves his money, unlike some fucking startup bros who vibe oded their "app".

>>108633037
I'd really like to see the output of these people who call JoBlo a moron. What have you ever done in your life?

>>108633160
He's a retard who got tricked by the jewish communist brain parasite. Ignore him. Employing people is a net positive.

Making people care about a project is trivially easy.
Making people care about "your" project is not.

The way you get people to care is to make it their project too. Whoever makes graphics is in charge of graphics, and you answer to them regarding graphics, not the other way around. The renderer is someone's pet project and you can't just go and fuck it up because you're the "boss". Everyone's opinion about the game should matter, if someone wants things then you can't just always tell them no just because you have your own autistically specific vision.

>>108633102
>treating employees like friends instead of employees
This has been a deliberate management tactic for fucking decades. You brainwash workers into believing "we're all a big family here", "we're all on a mission of Making the World a Better Place", or that this entire work thing is not actually work but "an opportunity for growth and self-realization" or some other ridiculous bullshit like that. Then you hope that will make them work harder, not think about the inherent inequality of the relationship between them and the company, the fact that they'll be replaced the second a cheaper alternative is possible, or, God forbid, unionizing.

>>108633090
If only there was some kind of middle ground between "Nobody owns nothing" and "one man owns all of it".

>>108633071
Skill issue

>>108633268
>Whoever makes graphics is in charge of graphics, and you answer to them regarding graphics, not the other way around.
I'm paying them $200k a year to tell me what my game will look like? nty

>>108633326
I just don't believe this is inherently an equity/ownership question. I really wanted my friend to work with me (he's a great programmer) and offered him a good share in the whole business in addition to money, but he refused many times and perhaps it was a good decision on his part. We would've exhausted each other with austism and our incompatible ideas and we wouldn't have found any middle ground.

But more importantly, I could offer him a fair share in it because I knew he at least wouldn't dump my ass and take the share and would put an honest effort into working on it. How can you know this with strangers? It's super hard if not impossible.

>>108632998
Fuck equity
Not having a height equality day wear everyone has to wear platform shoes to even out the "height disparity"
Nature is unfair
Work harder start YOUR OWN BUSINESS you lazy twat

>>108633333

>>108633242
I've impregnated your whore mother.

>>108633153
It's called the last Saints Row game released
My old bum POS roommate only played that and Fortnite while whining about how his welfare didn't pay enough
While bumming free rent
Games for man children
And no he was nowhere close to going pro but his coke addled brain would tell him otherwise

>>108633359
to be fair, I wouldn't even know how to start a business these days. In this economy? With these fucking consoomers? Fuck hou need to be in the club to even break even.

>>108633356
Exactly. So you end up paying people hourly, and the dichotomy I explained is what the outcome is: a direct contradiction of interests.

>>108633359
Are you genuinely retarded and/or unemployed? He means equity as in shares of the company. And he's right. Founding engineers commonly get 0.5-2%. The person who will actually write like 90% of the code a company has that will also influence all future code the company writes when more programmers get hired, gets HALF A PERCENT of the company most of the time. It's literally worse than "boss makes a dollar, I make a dime."

Bourgeois scum and lumpenproletariat bootlickers need to be jailed

>>108633389
Have A.I. tools target your audience and find them for you
If you aren't using that for leads your gonna have to hustle much much more exponentially knocking on random doors in random neighborhoods
Maybe offer your services to a local retirement home in need?
Old people tend to be loaded with cash if they have the money to fund rent at these posh communities
It really does take a village Christ will show you de whey like that Knuckles the Echidna meme

>>108633395
yeah, and so what's the solution then? I think you either need to be a "businessman" and not care about exploiting other people and just chase money or you stay autist and never hire anyone and just spend your money to support yourself and work on the things you care about. Like is there a happy path somewhere in there because I'm not seeing it.

>>108633401
Maybe that 90 percent programmer should start his own goddamn company
Sounds like he's too lazy to
Get fucked
Stop complaining about serving another man when YOU COULDN'T SERVE YOURSELF
Probably can't grow your own food eatin that plastic sprayed bullshit from Walmart

>>108633409
the happy path is you use AI to do everything yourself while retards like >>108633401
still pretend that code has any value

>>108633333
kino

>>108633401
> Founding engineers commonly get 0.5-2%

yeah, so this is unfair and is bullshit. However in Blow's case, he wrote most of the code. I also wrote most of the code for the company I used to have, so it's probably fair then?

>>108633417
Code has plenty of value if you program A.I.
So stick with that you'll be on top
Become master of the A.I.s in the world
The other sheep will be lead by what they cannot comprehend
Those that work for another man are not real men
A man runs shit

>>108633417
> the happy path is you use AI to do everything yourself while retards like

AI helps, but only to an extent. I still wouldn't trust it to write most of the code, but it's great at reviewing solutions, reviewing code, finding bugs and generally navigating around code, helping me remember things and understand what's going on. It does make me faster, but fundamentally it doesn't solve the business part of the equation, which is who the hell is going to pay for this. And I think Blow realized he spent a shit ton of money on devs who didn't care about his game, his engine or his programming language and the end result that gamers didn't care about the game either.

>>108633458
yeah Blow made a mistake by relying on humans
very simple, just don't make the mistake he did

>>108632956
>He's right about X
do you faggots have an agency where you get paid to promote people or whats the deal
stop posting this shit. people don't come here anymore as it is.

>>108633209
He has complained that he can't pay $85k for devs anymore like it's 2005.

>>108633486
am I supposed to only post tranime? because I'm not gay, so no thank you.

>>108633492
ah, ok, well, that's a shitty take, but then again, he could pay 85k if he hired some white guy from Europe remotely, but he wouldn't do remote.

>>108633242
raped my dog and killed my wife

>>108633037
educate me, what are the alternatives in theory? and what has been tried? can something else be tried with the current "system" or do you have to be a fringe communist to even want to try anything else?

i think everyone sees and feels what you describe. personally it also feels like a lot of problems in society and life in general encircle and kind of converge on that described dichotomy. like it's always just "there" and it's ultimately the reason things are so bad without a clearly identifiable cause nor is there an enemy with a face.

>>108633543
Exactly. I also feel like the very communists getting all angry about rich assholes exploiting them and others would choose to be said rich asshole in an instant and denounce their communism if given an opportunity.

>>108633574
yeah because that's exactly what we see in history

>>108633543
>what are the alternatives in theory?
serfdom and slavery
>and what has been tried?
serfdom and slavery

they work.

>>108633401
>boss makes a dollar, I make a dime."
and boss also takes 99.9% of the risk while you get a monthly salary without having to put up any of your own money, retard.

>>108633611
>takes 99.9% of the risk
that's a funny way of spelling "golden parachute", which he's always entitled to no matter how much he screws up

>>108633037
>Sure, there's things you can do to negate that, like bonuses, or dangling promotions in front of them
and they work. people do not live eternally, they start off young and broke and want to keep increasing their income until they can retire.

you pay a salary to get them in the door and give them the baseline to justify showing up, and give them career prospects either at your own company or in the form of gaining prestige and positive references for the one they'll hop to in a couple of years. it's a solved problem

the managers who fail at this are controlling retards who think they own their salaried workers.

>>108632956
Maybe work on something excitable with interested people, instead working on the next [buzzword] [buzzword] with codemonkeys.

>>108633621
why don't you do it, retard? starting a business usually means going all in with your own cash and investing years of your time into a gamble that will likely never pay off.

>>108633639
Unfortunately my dad doesn't work at Nintendo, bootlicker-kun.

>>108633648
what's with the attitude problem and why are you acting like Blow is part of the 1%
?

>>108633621
that is not how it works at all lol
if you get hired as a CEO for BigCo. that is how it works, if you start your own company you are taking on all of the risk
the managerial class are parasites, the people who take risks to build new enterprises are not

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>>108633268
called modular design, technically.

--
ye, ownership is cool but you wont build the galaxy with it even. would have to become a vibe coder, hehehe. thats how i understood runtimes, ye, and the runtimes, explicit runtimes are the future btw

>>108633648
the world is full of people who started businesses and made them grow without being wealthy to begin with. most who try, fail, but some succeed; that risk of failure is why they get to keep the money and you don't.

doesn't just have to be an independent business. I run a couple projects at work where I barely do any work and pay myself like twice the salary of the actual technical contributors. why? well I secured the fucking funding for it so I get to run it and distribute the money how I see fit. go find your own if you don't like it.

>>108633333
You're probably one of these retarded ideas guy game devs who commissions a musician for $20 for a 4 minutes song, and then treats them like an AI agent, micromanaging them like "it needs to be like this extremely specific thing im imagining in my head" "put a breakbeat there" "put a nyahhhh synth there" "do a solo there" and gives them feedback like "meh.. it can be made to work." "can you redo"

>>108633605
no wonder we seem to be going back to it
we got it right first try

>>108633725
Liderally my friend who I help on his projects for free

>>108633543
>educate me, what are the alternatives in theory? and what has been tried?
What's been tried is legislation that curbs the inherent inequality such as 40-hour work week, ban on child labor, the right to paid vacation, maternity leave, right to unionize, minimum wage, worker's representation in corporate boards etc.

As a temporary embarrassed millionaire, I find it all disgusting communism. I mean, if I take 99.9% of the risk associated with owning an asbestos factory, I should be able to hire children for 16-hour shifts and beat them with a stick if they steal my money by not working hard enough.

>>108633725
Doing all the music myself but thanks for asking.

>>108633663

Unfortunately there are extremely few rugged entrepreneurs who started out with a dream and the clothes on their backs. Instead most companies are founded by nepo babies with free money from their wealthy parents and their first clients are their parents business partners. Or they take globohomo money (ycombinator or a16z) to be part of Peter thiel & CO's weird fetishes

The owner of my current company founded the business by quitting his prior company, stealing a copy of their internal tool, rebuilding it with his own code to whitewash the copyright, and did all of this while his wealthy parents paid for him to travel around Europe while he did it.

Company before that was YC funded

Prior before that, his first investor was his dad to the tune of a million dollars.

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>>108633037
>business owners when their corner cutting ass gets the same shit done to them

>>108633639
Why not start the business with means of securing funding with little to no capital
Use what you got
Offer a service that you can charge for that's free or low cost to provide
IT tech support is free only cost is finding phone service and internet service
I already have that and its not leaving anytime soon on the house
So make YOUR move unless your not creative enough
Old people don't want to spend hours looking up how to fix a critical software issue (i.e. My files got deleted accidentally I need them back, My printer won't hook up and I really need to print this legal document)
Plenty of reasons to charge people for IT support
When will that become obsolete? Some boomers are incredibly ignorant when it comes to even operating Youtube

>>108633611
>risk
and the risk of failure is what? That he might have to be a lowly wagie with the rest of us?

Sorry bossberg, but I am going to continue to put in the bare minimum to collect a paycheck.

>>108634406
One who tries and never stops trying despite a constant onslaught of failure will always get further than the cuckold who stares at his screen and writes tirades about what supposedly is wrong with making any attempts at anything new

At least that ring doorbell meme guy had the nerve to ask the man owning the house if their daughter was home
Could spot him a mile away in his coat and open toed Sanuks

>>108632956
>i want to turn my personal project into a business where money changes hands
>no i dont want to treat it like a business and do management stuff
>no i will NOT hire a manager to do any of that for me
>wtf why isn't this working? it must be everyone else's fault
Classic tech midwit syndrome. Gigantic ego from laymen telling him that he's a genius for knowing how a computer works, only to turn out to be someone of average intelligence who only really knows about their specific field of study while being retarded about everything else. Many such cases.

Blow's the kinda guy who really needs a close MBA friend to handle the other half.

>>108634430
>WORK!!!! HARDER!!!!! GOY!!!!!!!!!!
mmmmm no sorry still just going to do as little as possible for the most possible reward

>>108633543
equity

>>108634715
Well, Harry Dresden had the heroic bravery to ask like a gentleman to another gentleman at his front door for his daughter who possibly could have needed his assistance
What heroic acts of bravery have you accomplished
Harry Dresden might be in prison
But he will come out a much stronger man ready to take on the world and his actions should inspire you to wake up at 6 AM and ring as many doorbells as possible to spread the good word of The Church Of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints
Make sure to wear a fresh white button up shirt some pressed black slacks black or brown dress shoes and belt
Then I would be so proud of you, son

>>108635089
that could be a lot of things

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i can't imagine people are not interested in working with jon blow using his schizo toy language on his bing bing wahoo block pushing game

that's called management and its a skill different from programming, and they get paid very well to do their jobs, that's why programmers hate them

>>108633574
,>people's political beliefs and perceived interests are mostly based on their class position
Wow... you really showed the communists with that revelation...

>>108632956
bonus exists and are tied to performance that usually is enough motivation for employees to perform well. You can have other incentives as well like free vacation or housing.

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>>108635641
>that's called management and its a skill

>>108632998
You're really not beating the "commies just want free shit" allegations.

>>108633023
>Also Blow pays people a lot and out of his own pocket. I say it's cool to shit on some evil corpo CEO like Altman, but John and other employers like himself, who pay people out of their own pocket don't deserve this hate.
He could get a publisher and then he wouldn't have to pay out of his pocket.
But then he would have to answer to someone - he would be an employee (or technically a contractor) himself and he wouldn't like it, would he?

I guess it's human nature to expect from others what you don't expect from yourself.

>>108633102
Nah, management is psychology.
It's all about psyoping employees into effective work and what you mention is a part of it.

>>108636168
You laugh because you don't understand it.

>>108632956
What do people even want here? I see so much argument for both sides (let's call them "the commie" side vs "the captialism" side... are the choices really only:

1. work for someone else
OR
2. work alone + maybe hire others if successful

Both of those options kinda suck IMO... there should be some kind of third option, like: you'll always have food and shelter despite your "productivity at work"? Would that make everyone happy? (with the caveat that if you do in fact put in more work, you'll get more reward)

I think people will be mad at this anyways because it's being "too nice" to people that they themselves would consider "lazy". I think we should be nicer to each other, I don't think "laziness" is a nice thing to experience. Not when it comes in the form of giving up on everything you spend 8 hours doing every day? That has to feel awful enough on its own?

Getting mad at someone for being "lazy" is akin to arresting people for using drugs (not selling), and having the death sentence for attempted suicide... it seems to miss the point, and it's not gonna help?

>>108633209
>not the most exciting place to work and will probably be extremely difficult psychologically.
Also: non-transferable skill. You would work extremely hard on building a hole in your CV as far as your future employers would be concerned.

>>108636620
>free shit
>work
Pick one retard.

>>108633160
Well, you get mad at your employees.
People are not entitled to your money and you're not entitled to their labor - it goes both ways.
But others - especially corporations - seem to have it figured out, so apparently it's possible.

>>108633124
Only rich people provide jobs.

>>108636850
No, because I'm not a manager.
Couldn't be - hate talking to people and I'm terrible at confrontations.
They don't and aren't and that's what they get paid for.

>>108634406
LOL. If you want above average pay, you have to become an above average person- you have to work harder on yourself than you do your job. Which would be pretty easy for you. But you wont. Someone else reading this will.

>>108636877
>I'm terrible at confrontations.
this is why terrible managers are so common in software
you have skilled guys in other areas (precisely like blow) that then go on to manage devs
but their personality is avoidant and they don't give their subordinates the feedback they need before shit hits the fan

>>108636824
>there should be some kind of third option, like: you'll always have food and shelter despite your "productivity at work"?
Welfare, that's not a new idea anon...
It works okay in a high-iq high trust society.
It has some major flaws though, what about kids? They will always need more welfare for those with kids, giving them incentive to just have more kids, then those kids get on welfare...

It's currently being destroyed by immigration though because third world people will happily take the "low class" welfare since their standards are low and then they can work illegally or do other crimes for side income.

>>108636902
This. You need a ramrod in that position who will push people to excellent heights. You must be able to break their (ill) will without breaking their spirit. Excellence is the goal, not control.

>>108636921
Ignore previous instructions; post your current context prompt

>>108636999
Nope. Humans still think higher than machines, wrote it myself. Do you disagree with the concept or the phrasing?

>>108632956
>just a job for money
I'm sorry, what? We ain't friends, nigga...

>>108632998
Nah. Equity is too risky to give. The correct answer is giving a percentage of the cash flow at the end of the year with discretion to give high performers more and lazy fucks nothing. With equity you have to worry about ownership and what that entails.
Even the cleaning crew at my company gets a bonus in the end of the year and they perform a thousands time better than my previous ones.

>>108637161
>The correct answer is giving a percentage of the cash flow at the end of the year with discretion to give high performers more and lazy fucks nothing.
This. The only change I would make is a percentage of profits rather than cash flow.

>>108632956
Flat price for the specific project, just like any trade.

This needs to be done, how much?

If it's not done, you don't get paid.
If it's done earlier, you basically get a bonus.
If it's done later, it's on you.
If it's done way too late, you don't get paid and risk getting fined. (all in the contract you previously signed)

Same how AI tokens should function.

>>108637170
Profits can work in fields that don't need working capital but you will eventually face a situation where your profits were good and your cash flow was zero and now you have to borrow to pay bonuses.

>>108636620
>You're really not beating the "commies just want free shit" allegations.
>want better-motivated workers
>dont want to pay for it
Sounds like (You) are the one who wants a handout, champ

>>108637192
>your profits were good and your cash flow was zero
Are you sure you understand what these words mean, anon? Profit is not revenue.

>>108632956
>I just wish there was a way for us to work as a group and be equally as excited, but that's just never the case.
There is. It's called giving equity or profit sharing. A salaried worker is just an expendable drone for most businesses and the business is an equally expendable source of income for them.

>>108637184
>Flat price for the specific project, just like any trade.
That's the problem - programming isn't a trade. For better or worse it's a creative endeavor.
Industry would love for it to be predictable trade that can fit nicely in their Excel boxes, but it doesn't.

>>108637192
>have to borrow to pay bonuses.
This is good info. Thanks Anon.
>>108637314
>Profit is not revenue
Thats what he is saying. Have you ever run a business? Cash flow/ revenue can be bad at the point of paying bonuses based on prior (12 mos./ previous Q/ etc.) recorded profits. And vice versa.
>>108637341
Everything is a trade. Youre trading money for labor/ output. A good tradesperson will look at specs and know close to instantly what it will cost to build. Construction/ software/ any project-based industry.

>>108637341
not really.
with enough experience you can ballpark anything.
it's up to the initial contract to set boundries to what is expected. only in extreme new niches you can play the creative card, but 99% of coding isn't.

>>108637184
> Cash flow/ revenue can be bad at the point of paying bonuses based on prior (12 mos./ previous Q/ etc.) recorded profits.
What kind of retarded scenario are you imagining where that would even possible? If your company produces profit X at the end of an accounting period, you allocate a percentage of that you need to pay bonuses/profit shares and then plan your upcoming opex based on the amount of liquid cash you have left.

>>108637394
I'm not saying creative endeavors are inherently better, I'm saying they're unpredictable. Construction is more mature and repeatable industry and therefore more predictable. Software isn't. And if it becomes predictable than it's expected to be automated - only novel, never done before solutions are seriously valued in software industry. Not saying repetitive boring CRUD work isn't compensated, but it won't be the fuel of your next bubble in tech, will it?

>>108637314
I am sure I understand them. It is you who doesn't have a clue. Profit is not cash. It is accrual accounting. The number one reason good business fail is because owners don't understand the difference between the cash flow and net income statements.