now that dust has settled, what do you think about software rendering backend?
why does keep putting in that much effort for features that most people don't want/need? There are long standing performance issues or general C issues in the api that would improve raylib a lot but the author always refused to implement the stuff because muh educational project. Whats the point of a software backend then. Is sdl3gpu a threat?
>>108671209i wonder if it will manage to be faster than the slow ass unbatched hardware rendering on dreamcast>>108671315>features that most people don't needare they finally adding support for the most important platform, windows 98?
>>108671209I dunno man, I chose to use SDL3 instead of this meme shit.
>>108671315Idk why not? sdl exists if you want a more serious project anyway.
>>108671209Raylib is the midwit of game programming libraries, do yourself a favor and learn vulkan.
t. makefile and tcc.exe tread>>108666688
>>108671315autasmit's a meme library anyway, just use an engine or else learn sdl and shit
>>108671575"SDL3" is low quality slop produced to gatekeep newcomers
>>108672488>Idk why not? sdl exists if you want a more serious project anyway.this is what I keep going back to. I try out raylib and its not that its bad, but the internet is filled with every fucking SDL question you could possibly want answered and all the features you could possibly want. its a weird trade off to go for something slightly worse in every way.
>>108673348raylib can be used with tcc.exeits huge advantage
>>108671209It's fine, no one is obligated to use it.
What autists don't realize is that Raylib's primary competition is not SDL, it's competing with higher level abstract libraries like LOVE2D, Python Arcade and PixiJS. The idea of Raylib is that you can program a game with an API that's close to being as as simple as those other very beginner-friendly libraries, while still being able to program in C (or some other lower-level language like Odin) for get native compilation and superior performance.It doesn't matter how easy it is to find answers to questions about SDL, the fact that you even have to ask the questions at all is a barrier. The resulting code is more complex and harder to reason about if you don't already have a deeper understanding of how rendering works.
>>108673598>It doesn't matter how easy it is to find answers to questions about SDL, the fact that you even have to ask the questions at all is a barrier.this, 90% of questions are already answered in examples/interactive demos.
>>108673650You are still missing the point.People want to focus on making their game. They want to put pixels on the screen, make sound effects, and they want to implement their game logic. They don't want to have to fuss with the distinction between a surface and a texture just to put a sprite on the screen. All this extra boilerplate code leads to more programming mistakes, more errors, and more frustration. It's called Accidental Complexity and Fred Brooks wrote about it 40 years ago. Raylib has a major advantage over SDL under those conditions. There's still more complexity than an absolute toy like a Python game library, but it's still much less than SDL and the results are a lot better than the high level libraries.
last time I tried raylib the fullscreen mode on windows was fucked in like 8 different ways
>>108673960Might be fixed now
>>108671209>they won't use a prefix>because it would clash with readline./videogaymeset full-screen=1set software-gl=1start
>>108671315i don't know what you're talking about
>>108673598but raylib isn't simple compared to something like threejs and threecpp exists which makes this point moot.
>>108673598> it's competing with higher level abstract libraries like LOVE2D, Python Arcade and PixiJS.all painfully slow>>108673724>Raylib has a major advantage over SDL under those conditions. There's still more complexity than an absolute toy like a Python game library, but it's still much less than SDL and the results are a lot better than the high level libraries.it's ok for basic stuff but trying to get performance out of sdl and raylib isn't easy. i started with sdl and realized very quickly it was unsuitable and i taught myself opengl instead, harder but the performance is fantastic.
>>108674695what an odd remark>>108674782i can't imagine what you were doing to run into performance problems with either
>>108673091Works on my machine
>>108674782>it's ok for basic stuff but trying to get performance out of sdl and raylib isn't easy. i started with sdl and realized very quickly it was unsuitable and i taught myself opengl instead, harder but the performance is fantastic.what were you doing? I tried both and ended up with sdl. the reason was I was doing a graphical application but no real animations and sdl just ate way less ram when things were static and I wasn't painting updates.
>>108671315>>108671575>>108672851>>108672488>>108672875This is made by unity shills, raylib is "le scary" for the homosexuals in San Fransisco. Unity is so open-ended, and so broken, that you would still write your own engine on top of it to fix it. >"Do yourself a favour, and put yourself in a position where you can get used and abused." You know they hate you right?, you know you are cattle, right?...
>>108674966Oh, and I suppose you're not cattle?
>>108674966Yes please! Let me use 10 years to write a code-base that only works on top of unitys broken engine. Thanks homo-chan!
>>108674979Oh Noo! You got me, yes I am! X((
>>108674979I would say that the only positive about unity is its first impression, shill-san. Everything after that is on a downward slope.
>>108675055I don't like unity either though :)Actually in my previous post I said you should either use an engine OR learn some serious libraries like sdl, opengl, vulkan, whatever you need. Raylib is a silly library for larpers.
so what i'm getting from this thread is that raylib is not a serious API and should be avoided
I want to make a 3d fps in some low level language and was considering raylib, is it a decent pick or no? To be clear I want lower level control so >just use unity/unrealis not an answer
>>108675089Yeah although I'm only saying that to gain argument points, I've never actually done any game dev
>>108675097My honest recommendation is to follow your heart and do it. If it doesn't pan out you will learn a lot in the end. Don't fall for the /g/trap of sitting idle and waiting for retarded nodevs to reach a conclusion to their pointless contrarian non stop shitflinging, just close the tab and get yourself started right now.
>>108674966no I am a sokol shill its superior and doesnt hide details from you. Also tons of actual useful examples
>>108675089it's not for serious people such as yourself
>>108675097The biggest problem is figuring out your physics and game systems, ray cast etc. Raylib has been pretty smooth for me, it is easily replaceable, in my game engine. The game logic and visuals are separated. It seems to be some nice places to download shaders other people are using, and copy-paste it in, so thats nice, but Im not at that stage yet. I would say that it is the best pick, since you are starting out, and you probably are intrested is solving more non-standard problems than opening and closing game-windows.
>software renderingso raylib uses no shaders?
>>108675277Raylib also have some essential stuff that you will need anyway, like recording button presses on a gamepad, or some physics detection. Just because you use raylib does not mean you cant mix in some other APIs as well, for sound and physics.
>>108675290No, it uses gpu
>>108675338so its not a software renderer?
>>108675347It is supported now as a software renderer, shaders probably cannot be processed by a CPU tho.
>>108674925>what were you doing?was making a space shooter in sdl. realized some of these sdl routines were bit too slow and slowly turned into a tiny 2d/3d backbone for windows executables, no dependencies unless you want audio. small exe size. very demoscene-ish. anyway, yea the speed increase i got was phenomenal. i just give opengl+gpu a pointer to a table containing some ungodly amount of objects and it happily uses it. i never bothered to look too deeply into the internals of sdl to give that much of a fuck and really was just easier to make my own shit from scratch. if you know sdl, pygame, raylib i shit you not it's EASY to go to opengl or even vulkan and just bang the metal directly and cut out the middlemen.
>>108675411im so confused
>>108675290https://www.raylib.com/cheatsheet/cheatsheet.htmlctrl+f shader manag
>>108675545ok so it's both, I thought OP was saying it only does software rendering or something, he just wanted to discuss a specific feature
>>108672865>'C:\\tccWhy do winfaggots pollute the root of their C drive?
>>108675411>>108675465Software rendering is when the cpu does all the calculations on how objects should be displayed. Raylib has software rendering functionality, but it loads models and textures into the gpu by default.
I was considering raylib to program a web client for a "game" without having to write javascript but for now I'm toying with https://ebitengine.org/ and it seems i can export to WASM. I have no idea how both stands regarding performance, I never done game dev in my life
>>108674966Raylib is the homosexual in San Fransisco.
>>108675561No, Raylib added an optonal pure software renderer as a new feature, and OP is whining that it was (supposedly) priorized over some other unspecified thing that he would rather have.
>>108675761Raylib has go bindings.
I use it for my text editor
>>108673598this, 100%. Raylib is the right level of abstraction, autists just want you to suffer or produce higher level slop with engines.
>>108676453>and OP is whiningNice projection, do you have IP counter screenshot to support your statement or are you just another /g/ schizo?>>108676459>Raylib has go bindings.It's inconsistent and Go-nonnidiomatic, hopefully whatever retard got already working on 6.0 bindings update will get this right (he won't).Not all functionality is implemented but at least it is somewhat usable for 2d rendering.How do I disable permanent F12 screenshot hotkey? What is the usecase of hardcoding this?
>>108676701>and OP is whiningHe clearly meant >>108671315, not OP.>What is the usecase of hardcoding this?Stupid question. The usecase for the feature is obvious. The choice to hardcode is typically a tradeoff of implementation simplicity and maintenance. 5 lines of code vs ~20. You have to draw the line somewhere. Seems kind of silly to me in this case, given that a community dev even did all the work to patch it in 2021, but it's really a pretty trivial issue either way.
>>108675097>>just use unity/unreal>is not an answerWhat about old school engines like FTEQW or UZDoom?
>>108677558i've never had a nicer gamedev experience than fteqw and fteqcc to be honest
>>108677581Any pointers or sources on getting started? It was as much a question as it was a suggestion and it's been a long long int time since I did anything with a quake mod.
>>108677558>FTEQW>GPLyikes
>>108677831The scripts and assets are yours though. As far as I know the only code you have to share are modifications to the engine.
>>108672851>vulkanthe suggestion of every ignorant gaymer nocoder. fuck off, fatty.
>>108677864GPL2.0 requires your entire project to be made open source under GPL2.0, that includes everything, even build scripts.
>>108677798i found these helpful to readhttps://quakewiki.org/wiki/FTEQW_Wikihttps://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~jeremyp/quake/quakec/quakec.pdfhttps://github.com/shpuld/EscapeFromSpacehttps://github.com/shpuld/id1-quakec-cleanedunfortunately, i also had to read a lot of forum posts from spike when i didn't know how to do something in fte
>>108677871Yeah dude, just use a wrapper library to other libraries and ignore how the real thing work.
>>108677875>entire projectrubbish
>>108677885>unfortunately, i also had to read a lot of forum posts from spike when i didn't know how to do something in fteBUT THE CODE IS THE DOCUMENTATION BRO!>>108677875Only mods to the engine itself.
>>108677914>>108677946It's literally called a viral license for a reason, dumdums.
>>108677831>wanting a cuck licenseCorpos still fear the GPL despite AI.
>>108677957ONLY THE ENGINE IS SUBJECT TO IT. WHAT YOU MAKE WITH IT IS NOT.
>>108673598it's XNA for C
>>108678320>gamedev framework #29742165>IT'S XNAxna died over 30 years ago anon, move on
>>108675761All that matters is making a fun prototype.Keep doing what you're doing. If you migrate it'll just be a good opportunity to do a rewrite using everything you've learned and with certain guarantees about the data, this will result in more performance (optimizing for known conditions) than anything else.
>>108677885I wish the original unreal engine was open source.
>>108678657I wonder if they even still have it or if it's lost to time
>>108671315C has issued, but it has the BEST compatability, and is blazingly fast. A lot if other languages have c bindings as well
>>108678704>compatabilityyou mean portability? gaming is 99% windows, you don't need portability, and even if you think you do, name you language and it probably compiles for windows, linux, and android>blazingly fastsame as basically any compiled language, and it's only as fast as the programmer is competent, speed comes more from the proper application of algorithms and data structures than from anything else
>>108671209I hate Raylib soo much, but no more than Imgui faggots.
>>108679616What about nuklear
>>108679682Nuklear is fine, because it's like restricted to games and not general applications.
>>108679897I use Qt for general applications, I would not use imgui
>>108675565>Issues with long filenames>Issues with spaces in filenames>Issues with odd characters in filenamesBecause Windows sucks shit, obviously.
>>108678907funny that the fag crying about raylib's opinionated decisions is suddenly really opinionated about how only windows matters.
>>108672851i kek'd
>>108683369linux have decent windows API emulator
>>108672851chad post >>108677871raging retard
>>108678607It's just a Game Of Life, which is for me the perfect project to discover such a library because I can add a lot of small features without needing a game idea and assets, while (re)learning how to efficiently use Go concurrency
>>108671315Software rendering could be used mostly for homebrew and microcontrollers.I'd rather get that stuff out of the way first before they tackle anything else.Also you missed that they added a FUCKTON of new examples that actually demonstrate useful features for gameshttps://www.raylib.com/examples.htmlSDL3 has barely got any example that they are not "Hello World"https://examples.libsdl.org/SDL3/>because muh educational projectI agree this is a bit annoying, I asked for simple timing, sequencing and animation functions that would be useful for games but he refused because they are "too specific"
>>108671315Why did he paywall one of the most useful features for games that is texture atlases instead of having it built-in in Raylib?https://raylibtech.itch.io/rtexpacker
>>108679616>2026>has potential to be the defacto new crossplatform C UI>cocornut still refuses to add gradients, CSS-like spacing and more modern UI controls>gui still looks like it's made in MSPaint
>>108683093https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/fsutil-fileSee setshortnameFor the other problems without changing configurations or app manifests, use device paths like \\?\https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/io/file-path-formats#skip-normalization
>>108674040SDL should stay in Raylib if we want to have proper controller support
>>108679616strange thing to say
makefile for tcc.exe >>108672865tcc.exe tread:>>108684806
>>108684901That isn't a makefile dipshit. tcc is bad and you should feel bad for advertising your shit thread.
>>108684901please delete your thread because I clicked on it and I don't want to waste anyone else's time.
Writing a geemu with raylib 5 and thinking about upgrading to 6.But I kind of hate raylib and anyways I have to write more complex shaders myself.I wonder if moving to sdl3 with AI generated model loading would be easier.
>>108684950>>108685192t. ideotes
>>108685213in internet no one know (You) an AI
