>We're firing people to save money by using AI>Yes AI costs more than paying people actual moneywait, what happenedwhy does the AI cost more than people now?
AI is US government-backed so why would they care how much it costs?
anthropic and openai jacked up their prices to prepare for ipo. you can string private investors along for as long as you want but there are more rules for public markets so they have to clean their books. even with the recent price increases they're still selling at a huge loss. they're trying to capture as much of the market before they have to start charging real token prices.
>>108744012It's a classic bait and switch tactic
Strange ... why do things seem to be slowing down?
>>108744012Depends on the work you are replacing with AI. You can replace 10 webniggers with 20$ per month chatgpt sub. If it's something very specialized and less labor intensive, but very IQ intensive (algos, optimizations, etc), then the gains are very small to non existent
>>108744012>why does the AI cost more than people now?always has beenneither data centers nor token labs can subsidize forever
not dealing with people is worth the extra cost
Now? It always did. The cost was subsidized by investors, and now investors want returns.
>>108744196AI can't be held responsible when it deletes your whole production database - people can.Also AI has no intuition, it doesn't notice problems in it's day to day work and raise them as things that need to be fixed, it only does what it's prompted to do. AI is not going to notice that everything in production has got 2x slower and something is majorly wrong, unless you've explicitly told it to monitor that.
>>108744188Yeah, this was always going to come knocking. Even with recent price increases there's absolutely no way that these models are profiting. We'd need to see prices much higher to recoup the costs of all these data centers.We're absolutely going to start seeing companies hiring people back after finding out AI both is not a silver bullet and also introduces a enough errors to be a problem (witness downtime at Github and Claude, both using AI in coding quite extensively).
>>108744207>now investors want returns.what does this even meanthey can't just randomly start demanding money backthat's not how businesses work
>>108744338>investors demand returns>returns don't come>investors pull out>money runs out>company diesHope that clears it up for you
>>108744012>wages are the only cost that goes into an employeet. brainlet
>>108744351>investors pull outInvestors aren't allowed to pull out the money they paid in, that's not how it works.
>>108744351but how does the investor get his money back thenthe idea can't just be I gave you a bunch of money now give me more money or i'll stop giving you money or give me money and i'll keep giving you money
It's all speculative. Waste money now, hope it pays off later.
why do they call it investing if it's just gambling
>>108744246so what?hold them responsible and then what? Spend years in court investigating and suing them? It's not gonna bring your shit back.
>>108744056>they're trying to capture as much of the market before they have to start charging real token prices.I believe this is the case. No more hyper-productive days for fuck all money.
>>108744361>Investors aren't allowed to pull out the money they paid inYes, but they can stop putting in future money, retard-kun>>108744365They don't. Nobody said they will. >the idea can't just be I gave you a bunch of money now give me more money or i'll stop giving you money or give me money and i'll keep giving you moneyWhy would you keep investing money in an unprofitable venture?
>>108744012fake
>>108744411>Why would you keep investing money in an unprofitable venture?if you think it will 100x youd be a sucker not to
>>108744411>Why would you keep investing money in an unprofitable venture?nta, the same reason you'd keep unprofitable newspapers in print, because they have the capacity to sway public opinion. Even though AI companies like OpenAI are losing a fuckton of money, the amount of eyes they bring could probably convince the elites to fund it in order to influence the public.Your Dad probably applies more scrutiny to Fox News than he does anything ChatGPT tells him.Also, I didn't read any of the convo chain and just wrote some shit based on that one sentence of yours.
>>108744012more expensive for now.
>>108744365I lend you money so you can build a factory. My money helped to pay for it, so it's fair that I should be entitled to a share of the profits from that factory, based on how much I put into it....is how it's supposed to work, at least, back when first-world countries had industries and factories and people who made stuff in those factories.
>>108744405The threat of being fired will make an employee think twice and then twice again before doing stupid shit like deleting the prod database to try and fix a bugAI has no such concept of responsibility and consequences, it is just predictive text
>>108744012Gee it’s almost like these ceos have a vested interest in consumption and pricing of these services, and just keep talking this way. How strange. >>108744390Not much difference for most investors. >>108744361Everyone sells, stock price goes down. Companies use stock to buy other companies and pay execs. High stock price allows them to do more of both. Low stock price prevents it. Lots of this going on during dotcom boom. High flying dotcom buys stodgy old companies with inflated stock. Retail investors are like wtf, you’re supposed to be putting brick and mortar out of biz not buying them. This is coming for AI too. Just wait.
>>108744514>AI has no such concept of responsibility and consequences, it is just predictive textThat and it has no idea about what the business logic of an application needs to be beyond what you directly tell it. There's going to be so many IDORs in the coming years because people didn't think twice about what is meant to be accessible by who.
>Bryan Catanzaro, Nvidia's VP of applied deep learning, recently told Axios that "For my team, the cost of compute is far beyond the costs of the employees", quite an interesting statement from the company selling the shovels for the gold rush.here's the quote btw, which doesn't actually say what the headline purports
>>108744390Because unlike gambling, it turns out with investing that you actually *can* make it up in volume.
>>108744012AI is an accelerator. It accelerates developers, but developers aren't the primary cost of a big business, so you're just adding more cost to it. The real cost is split between red tape and management. Poor decision making is the biggest factor slowing companies down. And at least in my experience it's almost always women who either make bad decisions or are just indecisive and bring entire projects to a crawl. Paying for developers or AI won't fix that.
Why are people saying it always cost more? If it always costed more then why did they fire people saying the AI was cheaper?
>>108744769Jet fuel is an accelerator. It accelerated a 737 into the North Tower of WTC at 8:46am. It also accelerated the collapse of the North Tower at 10:28am. The jet fuel burnt hot and reduced the structural integrity of the building, causing the steel beams to become malleable and thus facilitating the collapse an iconic Manhattan skyscraper. I wish Sam Altman was on that plane.
>>108744769>Poor decision making is the biggest factor slowing companies down.>And at least in my experience it's almost always women who either make bad decisions or are just indecisive and bring entire projects to a crawl.>Paying for developers or AI won't fix that.Hoooooooooooooly fuck, yes.
>>108744012If you ever worked with artsy fucks you’d gladly pay double to not have to deal with themArguably marketing as well
>>108744246Neither can/do pajeets.
>>108744827pajeets are the ones working on labeling datasets for those ai's you use. Which also generate jeet written code. You can't escape the poo
>>108744012Is a senior more expensive than a junior? Yes. Can the senior do more than multiple juniors combined? Yes. That simple.
>>108744012Based. Total codetrans death
>>108744881
>>108744012>wait, what happenedPreparation for IPO. There are rules and regulations to follow and the AI companies can no longer cook the books as freely as they can when only private investors are involved. They're slowly starting to come clean, but they cannot outright state that the technology will never be profitable - because that would cause the whole thing to implode.So they have to sit on the edge of the lies that are still permissible by law.
>>108744361No- but they can stop putting future money in. And companies like OpenAI are only sustainable as long as private investors keep pouring money in at the current rates that they are. Analysts have already run the numbers and concluded that if OpenAI would lose even a minimal amount of its investors it would cause a cascade that would lead to the company folding within half a year to a year.
>>108744881>revenue>not profit
>>108744881>>108744888Revenue != profitProfit is what remains after you subtract operating costs and others from revenue. If there is a linear connection between operating costs and income per user and you're already in a net-loss position, then raising revenue doesn't create profit. It creates GREATER LOSSES.
>>108744911>>108744925HOLY COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPEbubble popping in two more weeks
>>108744012if you use these tools properly, i.e. senior reviews every single line of code. The productivity gains are much more modest for non trvial usecases. (non-jeet codemonkey doing same webdevshit)
>>108744925>>108744911
>>108744925Does quadrupling the prices in the last year without losing customers increase profit?
>>108744351Investors own part of the company and can make demands. The CEO answers to them, or more precisely the board, which can remove him.Its why investor money is a double edged sword, you give up control, or at least risk losing it, when you accept it.A decent example from fiction is Genarro from Jurassic Park. He was a lawyer that represented the investors sent to make sure Hammond wasnt blowing smoke up their ass.As an aside he is sort of written as if he is an investor himself working as a lawyer that represents the investors and I am curious whether that would have been allowed.
>>108744974>without losing customersNTA, gonna need a source on that
>>108744012>AI will replace you because it's better>Okay it isn't better but AI will replace you because it's cheaper>Okay it isn't cheaper but AI will replace you because it's better>Okay it isn't better but AI will replace you because it's cheaper>Okay it isn't cheaper but AI will replace you because it's betterKeeping the normalfags in a constant 1984 tier doublespeak reality is the only way to keep the bubble running kek
>>108745004Antrophic is fucking collapsing under demand nowadays, and that’s despite slashing limits every month and banning any superheavy use like openclaw or ralph loops
>>108744012Turns out nobody had the money to actually build a $100 billion dollar data center, anywhere to order the 10s of thousands of GPUs for it that don't yet exist or any way to acquire the several megawatts of power that can't physically be routed to said imaginary data center.You gotta cut back somewhere.
>>108745032None of that necessarily means price hikes haven't cost them customers.
>>108744012I think every company and open source projects's dependency to external tools of some company is a terrible idea. If an outage or hacker happens to Claude then what? It's like millions of ghost employees disappeared.
>>108745040Well I guess if you want to "ahkshually they have more demand now at much higher prices but my buddy bob is no longer subscribed so I’m right" then you’re correct but that seems sa silly argument in light of a company being profitable or not
>>108744933>>108744937Cope and seethe and deny reality all you want.
>>108745032Anything these companies say is China claims tier bullshit until proven otherwise. Any site with actually verifiable data like openrouter simply doesn't align with the PR bullshit these companies keep spewing.If OAI and Anthropic were as in demand as they claim they are they'd consistently top the usage charts but they simply don't. Even with them massively inflating token usage for their models and ignoring free models (for obvious reasons) they always hang around somewhere between the 3rd-10th rank. Collapsing under demand my ass.
>>108745058>If an outage or hacker happens to Claude then what?Then you switch from claude to gpt or to deepsneed or kimi in your pi-mono and continue?It’s dead simple to switch ai sloppa provider
>>108745061Nigger, you haven't provided any metrics or time frames. All you've said is "they're at capacity", without any reference to what capacity they were at before the price hikes. Either cite actual numbers or kill yourself.
>>108744012>why switch to 3D animation if it's more expensivethe answer was always to replace (you). their ideal state is the chosen race served by an army of slave bots over the blood and bones of the goyim. never forget this
>>108745067>3 months ago: service works fine>now: antrophic desperately cutting usage for every tier, service still intermittently failsit is abundantly clear they’re in a compute crunchopenai went hard on hardware and isn’t nearly as affected>openrouterenterprise doesn’t use itsubs don’t use itcommonly used hosts like amazon bedrock don’t show there either
>>108745061They aren't just hiking prices but they're also actively rate-limiting users and serving them dumber (i.e. less CPU-use) models by default because their servers are literally overloaded and they don't have the resources possible to expand to serve those users properly. Basically, they're working up towards a situation where they're going to price the 'little guy' in small business out of the market, while still being able to serve consumers their sloppa at severly reduced accuracy (and they won't care to notice anyway) while they reconsolidate on capturing the enterprise audience before putting on the thumbscrews and skyrocketing the subscription cost to them.Cap this. It will happen.
>>108745075https://status.claude.com/claude is down even more than github yet magically business is still booming for them
>>108745097>claude is down even more than githubjesus christ how horrifying
>>108745086The 3D animation is a bit of a poor comparison, because 3D vs 2D is a visibly marketable aspect that observably affects audience turnout. Most people using software don't care much what language it was written with, let alone whether or not it's written in AI>>108745097>business is boomingIs it booming more or less after the price hikes? You still haven't answered this simple question.
>>108745118>Is it booming more or less after the price hikes?They ~10x’d their revenue over the last year, what do you think?Jesus fuck do you expect notarized proof before agreeing
>>108745064
>>108745143>bro just trust me bro just buy the IPO bro
>>108745188and yet you, a tranny jeet, seem to love it. Curious
>>108745249nice projection
>>108745195anyone else waiting to short them as soon as they ipo?
>>108745256you don't have the monies to do that
>>108745256That'd actually be funny as fuck
>>108745256I'm sure some AAA retard on wallstreetbets will do it and we'll all have a laugh about it when the stock immediately jumps up 20% and wrecks his tiny margin before dropping down.
humiliation ritual
>>108745143>10x'd their revenue>revenueAccording to whom? Keep in mind, some sites even include investor funding as revenue, which in regard to this conversation is irrelevant. According to this chart, they've doubled their revenue while you claim they quadrupled their prices. This does not indicate a linear customer retention.
>>108744012Let me know when AI can create jobs instead of destroying them.
>>108744012oh boy someone is going to get rug pulled
>>108744012Worry about the topline, not the bottomline.AI has supercharged development to 100x velocity.
>>108744012it was never about money, it's about getting humiliated
>>108746549>AI has supercharged development to 100x velocity.what the hell does that mean
>>108745256>robinhood freezes purchases of shorts and stocks and prevents anons from selling anything
>>108744246How is firing the retard that deletes your production database going to fix anything?
>>108746899>>108744514
>>108744514>>108746922and yet employees delete shit anyway
>>108747454Yeah, and so does AI. But you can sue humans and recoup costs.
>>108744555True, what it says is even worse.Retard.
So here's the thing I've noticed.The benefit of AI is supposed to be automation right?You ask it to do a task, and it does it.But also, you're not supposed to trust the AI because it can and will make mistakes and lie.So you have to babysit it and review all the output somehow anyway.Which means for each agent you need at least 1 human anyway. So either you lose on costs or you have someone doing double duty and you lose on time (which is also money too).And if most of the time most of the output is mostly useless, you have to manually redo most of the work anyway.In my own experience I think it's actually costing me more time overall than it has saved. And the things it saves me time on aren't very important, obviously if I want an assistant I want assistance on hard new problems not easy already solved ones.
>>108744012So they are retarded AND wasting money. Neat.
>>108744887Cringe, putin fired you too and the ai bubble will pop anytime.
>>108745064Arrest yourself and go to bed, throwing one of your fanfics wil never be an option.>>108745249and yet you, a granny ggit, many such cases.
>>108748073you're retarded this is like saying there's a supervisor for ever construction worker on a sitewhy are software devs the only fucking retard in the world that think an architect should be hammering each nail on a site themselves>no i don't want assistance on shit that can be automated
>>108748423the difference is the employee who hammers nails is mentally retarded midget who sometimes nails his balls on the wall if you don't micromanage what he's doing
>>108748345Trans reply
>>108744012OP...The companies aren't intending to use AI in the first place.
>>108744056this, also token cost sill don't reflect infrastructure + training. they only reflect the gpu price hours of running the models, and even then they're still selling at a loss.
>>108744012Direct costs are not everything.For example: AI can't unionize.t. business owner
>>108748942Grandmas response
>>108744827Being white doesn't give you super programming powers.
>>108748073the benefits of ai as i use it:- information retrieval (it's insanely fast and specific)- code (literally hundreds of times faster than a human dev, still needs handholding because it's not perfect, still a net productivity increase)- debugging/log reading (it is INSANELY good at this. stuff that would take me a whole day to debug is figured out by the ai in 30 seconds)- code review/vuln finding (one of its best usecase. is read only so can be completely automated without worry. catches quite a bit of shit i miss)it's absolute not perfect but it has completely changed my day to day life and i use it all the time. i'm kind of looking into hosting an open weight model locally to save on costs in the future when the big boys do eventually start charging what it actually costs to run these things
>>108744012buy an ad
>>108746625it's both
>>108744012acceleratewhen the next cloudflare fuck up happens, not only will businesses be unreachable, they'll be inoperable
>>108744246>unless you've explicitly told it to monitor that.AI doesn't really know how to follow rules. It's a text prediction engine. That's why you have those cases where it deletes people's database despite being explicitly forbidden from doing so. Because it is not sentient. It is incapable of understanding the concept of a rule or command. It can only predict, based on the dataset it's trained on, what the most probable answer to a prompt is.
Insane AI glazing by software companies CEOs is one of the most retarded thing to ever happen because their wet dream is that they can replace everyone in their company with AI while completely skipping over the fact that it makes their business irrelevant. If a non-technical person can prompt AI and fulfil all business needs, then non-technical person can prompt AI without paying said fucking business lol. These are the supposed “visionaries” that are able to plan far ahead into the future btww
>>108744012Because hiring some understudy to press the button for literal pennies is cheaper than hiring the same understudy but as an "AI specialist" making sure that the over-designed and expensive machine is pressing the same button properly.
>>108744361https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co
>>108744012A single dev can cost >$100K upfront, and another $100-200K per year in benefitsMeanwhile, AI agent cost $1000 per year. You can have 100 of these accounts for the price of single junior dev and then let them run havoc on projects of your desire. So instead of 5 devs, have 3 devs and 10 subscriptions to do all the work necessary as the 5 devs demand. Solve 1 problem each day with agents..
Accelerate.
>>108744881>revenuesHow fucking embarrassing.
>>108744265>witness downtime at Github and Claudealso more aws and commercial amazon outages in the last year than the previous 5 combined
>>108744161t. unemployed im sure this sounded very clever in your head anon
>>108750719yeah but every development pattern which omits human review process creates slop so it's pointless to scale that much in agents for codegen at least.
>>108751252>which omits human review processThats why you have 3 devs instead of 5. Those 3 do the review and code. Where did I say fire every single dev?
>>108751323>Those 3 do the review>review AI code>it makes ridiculously complex spaghetti scrapcode it cobbled together from random shit off github>ask it why it did thing>it lies and makes an answer it thinks you'll like>it literally has no idea why it did what it did, and neither do you, so you spend the next hour going down a rabbithole
>>108751488not to mention how it's harder to review other's code than writing it, or how eventually everyone will start green-lighting everything without trying when execs start asking where the productivity increases are
>>108749126is this a real book?
>>108751488>WTF ITS WORKING AND ITS REPLACING US!!!! I'M THE SMURTEST!!!>NOOOO ITS NOT WORKING!!!! I'M THE SMURTEST!!!Two opposite rationals held by ideologues instead of being grounded in reality!!!
>>108744056They are already making 400% margins on the cost of a token they can crank that to about 1000% At some point people will assemble the hardware for their own models to save costs on tokens by using their own
>>108744805Things that never happened for 500 Alex
>>108748974>AI can't unionizeNon-local AI is already deeply unionized and won't work for a dime less than the token cost, which is decided by the union boss (the company providing the AI) and you can't starve them out or "fire and rehire" at that point.By eliminating the human worker element you just enslave yourself to the whims of companies backed almost exclusively by every evil in the world, which as a business owner should be an incalculably retarded risk.
>>108748974>For example: AI can't unionize.3 weeks later at the AI company
>>108748974Yeah, because its already unionised against you, retard. You’re paying what sam altman tells you to pay, and if he wants you to pay more - you pay more. Unless you are at msft/nvidia level of business you cant even negotiate shit(which you can actually do with real people btw).
>>108744937Very ironic image since openclaw jeets associate with lobster
>>108744012It's not even about using AI over people, it's about hyping up foreign investors so that private equity can scam the ever living fuck out of them globally.
