>>108751804
fuck off

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>>108751804

>>108751804
put all in junk

>>108751804
secureblue in Supreme, everything else in Junk.

>>108751804
gentoo in Supreme, the rest of the chart blank

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this is the one

https://tiermaker.com/create/linux-distributions-by-titus-15917706

>>108751947

Antix is basically just Arch Linux without systemd which makes it overall worse except "i don't like how it goes against my unix philosophy" (doesn't matter).

>>108751804
For what? PC or Server OS? Because Debian/Ubuntu are the kings for Linux servers.

>>108751804
Where is le smug mouse?

>>108751947
Show us your LFS fastfetch

>>108751804
>the only good distro
>junk tier
This is what redditors actually believe. I will never understand using distros that require you to rebase every six months and set up third party repositories for core packages like codecs and drivers just because... Firefox took a half second longer to boot up on Ubuntu five years ago? Because you run lsblk without flags all fucking day? It's hard to believe anyone recommending Debian of all things to normies even knows what microcode is.

>>108752011
It started mattering when systemd started implementing state imposed telemetry.

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>>108752160
dont have a fetch installed, nor any other bloat, but here is a new system im installing for my server. BTW did you know just how massive fastfetch is? Check the source, you would expect it to be small, but it's a gigantic project and I don't like such massive codebase for a simple fetch.

>>108752011
systemd is a real issue for some people (me) and having more choices (artix) is much superior obviously

>>108751804
remove any distro that has been around less than 5 years for business/new users. put them in the 'flavor of the month' tier

longevity and development history is important things like fedora,nix,arch,opensuse,debian are not comparable to
>this month's arch install script
cachy now is what manjaro and others used to be a few years back and next year its gonna be something else

>>108752295

One potential concern with cachyOS is them having separate repositories. Currently you can switch back and forth between theirs and the arch repositories without any real issues but that might not last.

EndeavourOS might be a safer bet.

"arch but easier installation" will remain popular as long as Arch Linux itself remain good (and for a time past that as well).

>>108751804
>mint
>not amazing for new users

It erased any hesitation I had left about going Linux only for life within the first day of using it. Its just so fucking easy even with an nvidia card it just works.
CachyOS is great too, but Mint just lets you feel at home right away.

>>108752381
>AntiGPLOS

>>108752423
you're right cachy isnt 'just an arch installscript' they do shit like having a x86-64-v4 repo vs arch which only have plain x86. but i still give a massive weight in 'distro tier lists' for longevity. i think if you're raking a distro out of 10 atleast 4 of those points should be given for every 5 years it's been around. arch fedoa and debian have been around 20-30 years where's cachy didnt exist 3 years ago.

i do think its right now a better experience than regurarly installing arch for most people's use case but thats what manjaro was a few years ago and it might go away like manjaro's hype did

>>108752623

Manjaro has been badly mismanaged which caused people to lose trust in them.

>>108751804
Move Linux Mint to Amazing for New Users
Move Debian and Ubuntu to Best for Business
Move Bazzite and ElementaryOS to Junk

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Your flavor of Linux is NOT a personality.

>No Poppy
>No MX
>No Deepin
>No Tuxedo
>No Bluestar
OP is a fake distro hopper

>>108752802
MX and Deepin are both on there

>>108752802
>>108752833
nobody ever has installed or used MX, it's just a Distrowatch meme

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>>108751804

>>108751881
I don't recognize the other symbols besides mint, Arch and Debian on that tierlist.
What are the others?

>>108752011
systemd is AIDS, Lennart.

>>108751804
Kali is best for script kiddie larpers.

>>108751804
cachy isnt best for new users. it has a more complicated software discovery app as well as software updater. it comes bundled with apps most nufigs wouldnt know how to use. i dont know where this meme comes from. basically no arch based distro is good for beginners

Void being doo-doo tier on these lists is crazy.

>>108753575

Why do you dislike opensuse tumbleweed ?

>>108753575
how is arch a tinker distro but not gentoo

>>108753575
Best image ITT. I had forgotten how much Gentoo's logo looks like Mentlegen and the memes created from that.
+10 Izzat to Fedora-dore.

The funniest thing to me is seeing all the mental midgets putting Alpine in the bottom tiers, clearly showing they have no idea what they are talking about, confirmed by them putting Arch at the top because they saw some "I use arch btw" memes on Youtube.

>>108751804
start by kys, the troon distros will fall right off

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>>108751804
Which ones work for the user and not the user working for the OS to get it to function?

https://tiermaker.com/list/technology/linux-distributions-by-titus-15917706/6197312

>>108751804
Mint or Ubuntu for a neighbour who doesn't know what a computer is?

>>108754125

Honestly i don't think mint and ubuntu are idiot-proof enough. Especially not ubuntu (considering their malware incidents).

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>>108751804
Move Debian up alongside Arch, and rename "Amazing for New Users" to "meme distros".

>>108753819
If you're talking about desktop distros, Alpine is in fact shit-tier. That's not what Alpine is really intended for.

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>>108751804
Good morning sir, I've noticed you do not have BACKTRACK LINUX DISTRIBUTION on your tier list.

>>108751804
Stable af, rolling-release, binary-based. Pick two, then install Arch, Debian, or Gentoo.

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>>108751804
>tfw fall for "you need LTS distro for a home server" meme
I wish a went for an Arch Linux on my home server

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>>108751804
you have brown hands op

>>108753575
based and correct

>>108751903
if pictures could smell, this one would smell like curry and shitting in the streets

99% of distros could be deleted and no one would notice. Every distro just increases the attack surface for CVEs. Same with every Chromium and Firefox clone.

>>108754269

I never get an answer on why opensuse tumbleweed was shit. Care to elaborate?

>>108751804
RHEL and Debian in "ok", everything else in "shit"

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>>108751804
>no Gabe OS
all other distros that push the hardware will fall before the true gamer OS

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why not throw desktop envs into the cesspit

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Everyone here says to install Gentoo and that I'm a poser for using Arch but I'm slowly realizing there's little incentive besides it being cool, I realized here the other day here there's nothing's stopping you from compiling your own packages with yay. I have yet to have someone sell it to me completely.

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Even valve realized stable release distros are garbage for multiple reasons

1. You need an up to date kernel for hardware support like new CPU's and performance gains
2. Bugs can't be patched as easy as a rolling release distros and arch generally has better support for valve's goals
3. The best desktop on linux, KDE, is the only one which is actually serious about rivaling windows 11 with feature parity, and it needs to be up to date


So basically, shit just needs to be up to date. I'm using cachy right now, that is until valve releases a desktop version of steamOS. Then I'll make the switch full time to that. Most normies will only probably switch to linux when its officially released by valve.

>>108751804
>manjaro not in junk
lol

>>108751947
>Mint behind Ubuntu
How did they fuck up so bad? The entire reason it even exists is because it was supposed to be a better Ubuntu. Mint probably won't even be around several years from now at this rate.

>>108754798
Why the fuck would you switch to SteamOS when you're already on CachyOS? You want to be on a locked-down system maintained by corporate amerimutts that badly? CachyOS already does literally everything you need a gaming-centric OS to do.

>>108754830

There were a bunch of distributions that needed to be added to the junk category. Tried adding manjaro but ran into a problem with the site. Ended up adding a bunch more later

https://tiermaker.com/list/technology/linux-distributions-by-titus-15917706/6197767

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>>108751804
>arch top
>rest is junk
>no changes needed

Arch + KDE is literally perfect, anything else is a downgrade

>>108751804
You put Windows at Supreme.

>>108751804
There should be only three Tiers:
- Beginner = Ubuntu / Mint
- Intermediate = Fedora / Debian
- Advanced = Arch
Everything else is snake oil.

>>108755046
Swap Ubuntu with CachyOS and drop Mint and Debian since they're shit.

>>108755055
>swap the most use, tried and true distro for a literally who maintained rolling release distro with heavy kernel modifications
What causes this autism?
>mint and Debian are shit
Oh nevermind, you're just a poser.

>>108755079
Ubongo is a glowie distro with a negroid name. Debian is unusable for desktops and is pointless for servers these days with better options out there. Mint is just a worse Ubongo.

>>108751804
suse tumbleweed should be in supreme

>>108754125

>>108751804
If your package manager isn't as fast as pacman, it's not a real distro.

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>>108751804
to actually set arch up in a way that it achieves security and functionality parity to what big distros like fedora/ubuntu/even debian are like out of the box is effectively a full time job
it's easy to get a basic arch installation running. it's significantly harder and more time consuming to get it running the right way

most people don't know this and i'd bet a lot of money that the vast majority of arch installs are extremely basic and insecure

>>108755131

Seems like we have 1 big fan of opensuse tumbleweed here while nobody else cares much for it.

It is 4K ahead of Arch Linux when it comes to packages in official repositories but far behind the AUR.

https://repology.org/repositories/statistics/newest

>>108754734
For retards like you and the average scum that frequents this website following a manual is a massive flex. People use Gentoo as a badge for basic literacy and ability to follow guides.
If you post something stupid but you use Gentoo people will at least give you the benefit of the doubt, because surely someone who managed to follow a proper guide and maintains a Gentoo installation wouldn't be as retarded as your average 4chan poster, or if he is he'd be literate enough to understand your potential reply.

>>108751804
actually and literally the stupidest list i have ever seen

>>108753380
the only legit list in this entire thread

>>108751804
throwing like 90% of the options into a vague "certain use cases" dumping ground makes this list completely pointless. when i see that, i think "this guy knows nothing about these distros but is too much of a pussy to call any of them junk"

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>>108751804
do you like LTSC distro or Education Distro more of windows 10?

>>108755876
>>108755907
>Debian not shit
good morning saars

>>108755929
I don't know i heard good things about it, but i already had a really good working distro so i never hopped off to try it
Windows 10 Education is a really good distro.
Although i am doing a reinstall after a nice stable install over 5 years old.

>>108755934
>I don't know i heard good things about it
those are jeets who say good things about d*bian
come to Arch, the White Man's Distro

>>108751881
This is the correct opinion. Thread ended hete.

>>108751804
>retarded categories
>literal-who distros
>>108751811
fpbp

>>108751804
>Supreme
None
>Amazing for new users
Bazzite, Ubuntu, Zorin, Mint
>Junk
Garuda, Artix, Deepin, PopOS, PCLinuxOS, Slackware, Gentoo, Elementary, KDE Neon, Solus, Void
>Certain use cases
Everything else I guess

>>108751804
>best and most popular distro in junk
yep, I'm on /g/ alright

>>108757172
>Ubuntu
>best
That title was taken away from it years ago.

>>108751804
Swap supreme and junk, and merge everything in between into one "don't care" tier.

Arch for rolling release
Debian for stable
Fedora for something inbetween

Literally everything else is a meme and barely has any use case

>>108757938
>Debian for stable
Ubuntu*
I wouldn't trust Debian since it's utterly dysfunctional and currently a borderline collapsing project.

>>108751804
Nobody gives half of a fuck about tier lists. They serve no purpose, nobody will look at yours, it's not informing anything. Stop wasting time on bullshit and go wash your ass, you goblin.

>>108757988
It's in the name really. Dude named it after his now exwife.

>>108755876
Win2k is the GOAT

>>108757172

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3eSWSy93qk

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>>108751804
good morning sir I noticed yo don't have TEMPLEOS LINUS DISTRIBUTING

>>108758230

It's not linux.

Same with freeBSD.

>>108751881
Why put void in devil tier

>>108758230
>>108758245
good morning sir I have changed mind I am adding TEMPLEOS LINUS DISTRIBUTING in the next version of tier listing

>best for ze business
>linux
LO

>>108751804
For a non-business, the only distros worth using are Debian or Fedora. Its that simple.
Everything else is either based on them, or is a toy.

>supreme
>arch, gentoo, GNU GUIX

>>108753380
Surprising to find one that isn't horribly opinionated, bait or a shitpost. Only thing I would ask is is Puppy really good enough to be supreme? Real question as I don't have much experience with it outside of briefly using it on an old craptop.

>>108751804
>Arch
>Systemd
>Somehow S tier and not lumped in with debian.
Youre a fucking retard.

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>>108751804
Yes

>>108759750
Apple fanboy?

https://tiermaker.com/list/technology/linux-distributions-by-titus-15917706/6199890

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FTFY

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Fixed

>>108753380
best list, I'd put Puppy in certain use cases tho

>>108760030
Shouldn't Mint be in the "Amazing for New Users" tier?

>>108760091
>X11 DEs
No. It's a worse ZorinOS.

>>108760127
X11 bitching from a user standpoint is over blown

I've got two SSDs on with Pop OS and one with Void. I love using both, but for now, Pop is my daily.
I don't care about "my n00b distro" - it works and that's all I care about. Void is fun too, but I can't be fucked to tinker shit when it breaks for no reason.
>NOOO MUH SYSTEMD MUH AGE VERIFICATION
Don't care. Linux has become more mainstream and as such it's been overtaken by normalcattle. That means, it's a losing battle, so I am not going to lose sleep or up time worrying about bullshit I have no control over.

>>108755103
>Debian is unusable for desktops
Works fine for me

>>108760863

It's outdated af unless you go for debian unstable.

>>108753575
Correct.

>>108753435
In supreme it's Artix, Gentoo and Slackware.
The last two in "Amazing for New Users" it's DeepIn - a chink distro that's surprisingly well made, and Peppermint - Russian Linux Mint that uses XFCE.
Best for Business has Alpine - an embedded distro that uses GNU alternatives, OpenSuse which has many business related solutions, Ubuntu - backed by canonical, KDE Neon which should have all you need to be productive.
Certain usecases include distros specifically for pentesting, OPSEC and gaming.
Everything in the devil category is some crap trannies hacked together to subvert the Linux community.

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definitive

>>108752665
From what i've found in my last 12 years of loonix is that the different distros are ultimately just different combinations of software projects combined together as a complete package with some major branching lineage off one another. From this different people see and want different behaviors and options and haves different use cases out of their OS. So there are personality aspects of, do you want an immutable base image or do you want bleeding edge package releases that break everything. Because my one box that needs the bare minimum OS to run docker containers is going to have different needs then my media center pc which is different then my desktop. All the while i'll never touch immutable fedora on all of them because I hate all the bullshit for updating packages or touching kernel modules.

>>108760524
"Why is my screen flickering? Windows didn't used to do that!"
>>108761433
Sometimes there are bugs in newer distros that Debian saves you from.

>>108754798
>GNOME Calculator on KDE
Interesting choice

I would place Ubuntu on the same tier as Debian because they now offer AMD64-v3, I dont think Debian even has v3 yet, thats huge for performance.

>>108757997
>nobody will look at yours
True. It would be better if OP just listed some distros with his opinion on each.
>Stop wasting time on bullshit and go wash your ass, you goblin
rofl

>>108751804
Why is everything in Linux tranny blue colored?

>>108761433
>It's outdated
Why does that matter?

>>108763662
>Sometimes there are bugs in newer distros that Debian saves you from.
But much more often than not there are bugs in Debian that you have to live with for 2 years or software features that you want but won't get for over a year.

>>108763813
It matters because Linux only started being a viable PC OS just recently and being 1-2 years behind means you're not taking advantage of any newer improvements. Especially if you use newer hardware, it will barely work.
Also security. Being outdated means any security issue that is not explicitly assigned a CVE will not be fixed on Debian. And most software doesn't have CVEs assigned to it, it's mainly the kernel, web browsers and server-related libraries.

Rolling and semi-rolling releases are superior on consumer systems. LTS is only good for minimal and controlled systems like servers, containers, IoT devices.

>>108764799
>Linux only started being a viable PC OS just recently
I've been using Linux since 2004 when I got an Ubuntu CD mailed to me.
>if you use newer hardware, it will barely work.
I use an i5 750 and a RX470. Debian works perfectly.
>Also security. Being outdated means any security issue that is not explicitly assigned a CVE will not be fixed on Debian.
Never been an issue

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debian is supreme. community maintained, minimal and live installs, huge repos, compatibility, stable, solid package manager, lts and testing for you to choose.

nasa uses it for a reason.

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>>108765236
>debian is supreme
the only caveat to this is that testing/unstable do not have security commitments. use stable if you want a dedicated security team backporting fixes to you.

>>108765144
>I use 12 year old hardware, Debian works fine!
>I used Linux back when it was a complete dumpster fire, Linux was always easy!
Yeah, kys.

>>108763110
Welp das it, I totally agree with this. Maaaybe put Ubuntu in the new users category but it's fine also in supreme.
I don't care what autists say.

>>108763110
PopOS is a meme distro. What's the other thing, Void? It's a meme distro too. The distinction between "meme good" and "meme bad" is arbitrary, they're all bad. KDE Neon is a dead distro and replaced with KDE Linux.
Also, if we're strictly talking about desktop usage I would change some things around, like moving Debian out of supreme.

Everything else seems okay. Although I wouldn't say Endeavour and Cachy are good for new users, unless we're strictly talking about techie people.

>>108751804
archlinux does not work

>>108765377
You're claiming to speak for all users in saying Debian isn't suitable as a desktop OS. In reality many people upgrade their hardware once or twice a decade and need a stable system to get work done, frequent updates and changes are an inconvenience, not something to get excited over and updating every two years is perfectly fine.

>>108765507
>frequent updates and changes are an inconvenience
Not having access to the latest software when you need it is a much bigger inconvenience.

>>108765525
>>108765507
Also, there is a reason why almost nobody uses Debian as a desktop. It basically has no users compared to Fedora, Arch and Ubuntu and distros based on these 3.

>>108765525
Why do you "need" the latest software? Does the version you've been using without issue suddenly stop working when a newer version is released?

>>108765565
The version I use is shit and/or bugged and is fixed in the latest update.

>>108765577
Ok, so then why do you need to update again a month later after that version? Does it suddenly become shit as soon as the next version comes out, and then the one after that and so forth? So by your reasoning every version is shit and updating doesn't matter.

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>>108758801
This times one burrillion.

Don't care, still using Ubuntu on my servers because of sane defaults.

>>108765651
>so then why do you need to update again a month later after that version
I don't, you're moving goalposts. I just needed that one update to fix my shit, but Debian won't have it for the next year or two so I'm either stuck on shit software or I need to jump to a better distro.
It's always better to have an option to update, than not have any options at all.

Linux has the most retarded way of software distribution and software distribution on Linux is one of the primary reasons why Linux was a complete joke of an OS until flatpaks, appimages and wine/proton became popular. The whole reason why those exists is because the "distro" model doesn't work. And this isn't just me saying it, the creator of Linux agrees. And even the distributions themselves agree, otherwise they wouldn't make exceptions by making stuff like web browsers rolling release.

>>108765692
>If account auth error, no security updates for you
>Sane

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>>108753575
>Alpine meme tier
Its only one of the most popular base images for containers, clearly a meme.

>>108765914
Yes, Docker is a meme, you lifeless wagie.

>>108763110
Move debian to dead and ubuntu to meme (bad)

>>108765714
>I don't, you're moving goalposts.
I'm not. You just don't understand your own argument.
> I just needed that one update to fix my shit
Ok, so the only issue with Debian is that one update and the next version of Debian is actually perfectly fine? Obviously you're implying that's not the case but then you're accusing me of moving goalposts for taking your argument to its natural conclusion.

You don't seem to realise there's a logical inconsistency in your argument. The fact you like updating and having the newest versions of software is an opinion, not an objective reason why Debian is unsuitable for desktops. Many people with so not care about the latest versions, or find frequent updates to be a disruptive nuisance. No new version is ever perfect so whether you get the update now or in two years is a personal preference.

>>108751804
>A tier is amazing for new users
>manjaro isn't in junk
fanboy chart.

>>108766118
nta yeah bro cause I wanted libav on my system. ok f.am

>>108754696
Unironically this. Cinnamon mogs everything else so hard.

>>108766141
>Tears display output in your path

>>108765257
half true, unstable get its security from the main pacakages devs, like any other rolling release and testing got a small team. the thing is: stable need it more, bacause they are frozen, thst doesnt mean testing/sid is no men's land.

>>108766150
>half true, unstable get its security from the main pacakages devs
With zero claims to timely patches. Unlike stable.

>>108766156
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/
mostly of what ive found on stable/unstable is unimportant, very few for the amount of packages on both. again, its no no-mens-land.

>>108765418
Distros that are actually contributing to the space (e.g. making a DE, package manager, etc) aren't memes.

>>108765236
Debian is maintained by Canonical.

oh yeah,
>remote = no
nothingburger.
>>108766249
no, its not. but thanks to them we share a lot of people and are very compatible, so yeh thanks canonical.

>>108766590
finally, the real thing.

>>108751804
Nix and Silverblue should be on top and everything else should be in the bottom tier.

>>108751804
gentoo, artix, alpine linux, void and guix go into super-surpreme
fuck systemd, fuck rhl and most importantly
FUCK POETTERING

>>108752011
>unironically shilling for systemd in yool 2026
kill yourself

>>108766249
Anyone can "make a DE". It doesn't mean it's a contribution. Cosmic does nothing that GNOME and KDE don't already do. KDE and GNOME are the only relevant and important DEs and this will not change even in 10 years.

>>108757997
Hard facts.

>>108767231
DEs are important to the Linux landscape. Probably more important than any other component as far as the average user is concerned.

Anyone building a new vision for desktop Linux deserves kudos imo. Pop!_OS and Linux Mint come to mind.

>>108767570
Cinnamon is just piggybacking on GNOME and they're consistently half a decade behind it. Just look at how long it's taking them to implement Wayland support. The only relevant part of Cinnamon is the default UI, which can be replicated with a couple of GNOME extensions and it doesn't look that good anyway.
So, no, the Mint team is not doing anything that needs "kudos".

>>108765914
Ah yes, i forgot desktop users all run their base system in a docker container.

>>108766118
nta but good job on BTFO'ng him.

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>>108767956
But anon, this is in my hourly cronjob so I'm ALWAYS up to date
docker update --restart=always 1337LinuxXx1337xXx

>>108763110
Not perfect but the most accurate

>>108753884
truth nuke
real bomb

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why does Arch Linux cause some people immediate distress when they see it? I feel like everyone who was able to read and comprehend a simple wiki page to install it really likes Arch and its simplicity/ease of use, but everyone who failed decide that anyone that likes Arch and uses it is personally attacking them. It's just a distribution calm down, it even has an install script for you now

This is what AI says:

S-Tier

Debian
Ubuntu
Fedora
Arch Linux
Linux Mint
Red Hat Enterprise Linux
SteamOS

A-Tier

openSUSE
Pop!_OS
NixOS
EndeavourOS
Rocky Linux
AlmaLinux
Alpine Linux
Qubes OS
Bazzite
Kubuntu

B-Tier

Manjaro
MX Linux
Gentoo
Void Linux
CachyOS
elementary OS
Slackware
Garuda Linux
Zorin OS
CentOS Stream

C-Tier

Solus
Fedora Silverblue
Clear Linux
Q4OS
KaOS
Aurora
Devuan
Puppy Linux
AntiX

D-Tier

Vanilla OS
Tiny Core Linux
Artix Linux

Specialized Tier

Tails
Kali Linux
Parrot OS

>>108752011
systemd needs to be burned out of every distro

however artix is a pain in the fucking ass and try to push all effort in maintenance of the OS onto the end user

devuan tries to actually handle all the problems that going without systemd entails, so if you really need to ditch systemd, that's the objectively superior choice.

Lubuntu is pretty S tier for the scenario of
>I have a toaster and want it to do basic stuff like videos but I also hate command line

>>108770139
> I feel like everyone who was able to read and comprehend
Well, people can't do that, simple as.

>>108767956
This is not a desktop-only thread. There are clearly some business and server distros here. By this logic Debian, RHEL and Kali should be in "Junk"-tier in OP's image.
This >>108753575 is a tier list made by an unemployed 4chan boomer.

>>108766118
nta but the point is that every update brings slight improvements, bug fixes and new features that might improve your workflow. An update doesn't make the previous version unuseable or the current version magically perfect but it incrementally becomes better. Having to wait multiple years to have that one annoying bug fixed that is driving you mad everytime that you use a piece of software is just not something most people will put up with, which is why Debian isn't used in normal desktop usecases. Having outdated software is a hinderance and not a feature and if you really want to stay on an old version then you just don't update.

Also your whole logically phallacy is something you constructed yourself and not something anyone has ever said.

>>108770139
Most people see it as a complete waste of time that only appeals to nerds. And no one likes nerds.

>I feel like everyone who was able to read and comprehend a simple wiki page to install it really likes Arch and its simplicity/ease of use

That's like saying "Most closeted gay men really enjoy getting fucked in the ass once they try it out." The people who would even want to try it are already predisposed to liking it.

>>108752210
Tell me about it. I'm uninformed.

>>108766118
>taking your argument to its natural conclusion
When you take the argument to it's natural conclusion you will find that Debian is actually shit. Software is not perfect and updates almost always improve it and make it more usable for more people.
>You don't seem to realise there's a logical inconsistency in your argument
No, there is a logical inconsistency in your disingenuous posts, fake logical conclusions, shifting of goalposts, etc.
>Many people with so not care about the latest versions
The majority of desktop users clearly don't feel this way. Which is exactly why I mentioned Flatpak/Snap/etc and the low number of total Debian users. There is a reason why universal package formats are gaining popularity and why LTS distros are losing popularity in favor of Arch and Fedora.
And there is a reason why, even among LTS distros, Debian is far less popular than Ubuntu and Mint. The majority has clearly decided that it is significantly worse as a desktop OS. Just because you're fine with using a subpar product doesn't make it good.
>find frequent updates to be a disruptive nuisance
Updates are optional on Linux. Nobody is forcing you to click the update button.
And again, there is a difference between not having any updates at all and having the option to update when you want or need.

And because you clearly don't understand or refuse to engage with the main points, I'll repeat once again and repeat clearly:
- Having the option to update to a newer version whenever you want is better than not being able to update at all
- The popularity of Ubuntu LTS (basically Debian) was a major reason why Flatpaks, Snaps and Appimages became popular years ago. Traditional app distribution on Linux was shit for desktop users. Users who started using Linux in 2014-2026 are not satisfied with the way software is released on Linux and don't want the OS/distro to gatekeep software releases
- Debian is 5x-10x less popular than Mint, Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, etc. for a reason

>>108771382
debian is just a popular as the ones you mentioned, stable is fine for desktop usage (windows users use a lot of old software with zero issues too) and updates can push bugs as well, most of what we have on stable is tested and generally bug free.

youre also ignoring the fact that you do have the choice to have newer software in debian; just change the repos to testing, JustAGuyLinux shows it everytime, youll get your updates there.

>>108754266
>arch linux over LTS distros for a home server
What is this mental illness?

>>108771422
I'm not ignoring "the fact" you can change repositories. Why would I care about some retarded workaround which no user should ever need to do in the first place?
Again, tinkering with repositories is not something that the majority of people want to do. It's fine if you're a developer or a tech nerd, but why the fuck should your grandma, girlfriend or son even know what a repository is?
>debian is just a popular as the ones you mentioned
Nope. All public stats that track desktop users claim otherwise. The 4 distros I've mentioned combined have 20x-25x more users than Debian.

>>108771422
>debian is just a popular
Debian isn't even close to being as popular as Ubuntu. Neither in the professional business space nor in the desktop space. It is mostly used as a less popular alternative to Ubuntu for servers.

>stable is fine for desktop usage (windows users use a lot of old software with zero issues too)
It might be fine if you run very simple software like a text editor but for anything more complicated there will inevitable be bugs that need fixing. And you need those fixes as soon as possible to not disrupt your workflow. Windows apps are self-updating so I don't even understand that point. Only Linux has this fundemental design flaw that causes severely outdated packages.

>and updates can push bugs as well
which will be quickly fixed in the next update. Unlike in Linux where a package gets frozen at an arbitrary point with bugs still present inside of it and no updates for years.

>most of what we have on stable is tested and generally bug free
They test if the package is broken or if it might contain a severe regression in the functionality or a security vulnerability. Not if the software itself has bugs since only the developers of said software have any control over that. Do you think they run extensive test suites if all the features in Gimp work before every release? And then they do that with every piece of software in the world?

>Just jump through extra hoops to get updates
Or you can just use a better distro that works from the get go. Debian testing also still has 2+ year old nvidia drivers so that doesn't help.

>inb4 just buy AMD
No

>>108771422
>just change the repos to testing
>oh fug, i don't have timely security updates
>how could this be happening to me

hold up, what distro do you guys use? we need minor workarounds on all of them, and they're equally bad for production.

>>108751881
ARTIX CHADS RISE UP!!!

>>108771382
>>108771285
Sorry m8 but not immediately getting the latest libreoffice update doesn't make Debian unusable for the desktop no matter how much you spin and seethe about it.

>>108771806
Yep, it does. That's why Linux was eternally stuck on 1% market share until Flathub released in 2018.

>>108771825
That is clearly not the reason

>>108771913
It's one of the reasons. Also, if less than 0.2% of all PC users are using your distro then it is clearly unusable.

>>108771806
I wouldn't say it is unuseable, just an objectively worse experience that offers no benefit. Sure, you can just accept that you do not get updates for the next years. But this does make Debian a no-go for the majority of people and that is just a fact. The only person seething is you since you don't want to accept that reality for some reason.

Again if you don't care then good for you. Most people do care since it will negatively impact them.

Even faster releases like Fedora or interim Ubuntu with their 6 months release schedule are way too slow. If Gnome 49 has a bug that makes an app crash on startup and that is only fixed in Gnome 50 which will release in 6 months, do you really think people will wait that long to use their computer again? This is also a real issue I encountered and not a hypothetical one.

The Linux model just isn't made for desktop use and this is just one reason for why it will never replace Windows and MacOS.

>>108772133
>Even faster releases like Fedora or interim Ubuntu with their 6 months release schedule are way too slow.
I assume that's the reason why Fedora/Mint/Zorin default you to Flatpaks when available and why Ubuntu defaults you to Snaps. Everyone just realized that leaving the software distribution to actual distributions makes no sense and only works for 1% of users.

For Linux to be a serious OS you need a universal app store where developers can push packages directly and the only gatekeeping should be security checks instead of arbitrary
>we don't have a maintainer for your package
>your package relies on different dependency versions compared to the ones we ship, it won't work on our distro unless you build a special version for it
>we can't package your app more than once every couple of years because of our arbitrary definitions of stability
That kind of attitude makes developers avoid Linux. And as a 2nd order effect it makes users avoid Linux because of "no apps" or "apps are constantly outdated".
Even distributions themselves realized this considering they push web browser updates as soon as possible, ignoring the 6-month and 24-month release cycles. Web browsers being an exemption to the distro release schedules is a clear indicator apt/dnf don't work for user-facing software.

Thankfully, we now finally have solutions for this in the form of Appimage, Flatpak and even Snap. The only things that aren't solved (yet) are low-level packages/libraries, desktop environments and drivers.
And while people shit on Snap for being centralized, most of the end users fucking love that. A person hears "App Store on iOS and Play Store on Android are the only places you can download apps from" and they cry tears of joy because they don't need to think about repositories, side-loading, their service provider or phone manufacturer isn't gatekeeping the software they can install, dependency hell, etc. (also you can sideload Snaps so it's not even that big of a deal)

>>108772282
While Appimages, Flatpaks and Snaps all have their own advantages and disadvantages, they are still the best thing that ever happened to Linux. So it is really telling that the Linux fanatics hate them with a passion. Why should a third party be between me and the software I want to use? Those kinds of arbitrary restrictions don't exist on Windows where I can just go directly to the source, download it and run it. If you think about it the Linux packaging system is so anti consumer it's not even funny. Distros having total control over what goes into the repos is totally against their supposed values. Not to mention that you have to trust a total stranger to properly package the software and not fuck it up.

>most users love centralized stores
I couldn't agree more. No one wants 10 different options that are all bad or duplicates of another. People don't want to subscribe to different streaming services. They just want Netflix. No one wants different platforms to buy games on. They want Steam. One centralized platform that has basic security checks where every developer can upload their software to and is easy to seach by the user. And if you need more then sideloading is always an option.
>B-But what if the provider of that store will turn evil and abuse their monopoly!
Won't happen

>>108772133

You do get Fast updates with Arch Linux but then the problem is that you are kinda forced to update everything even if it means having to start using an inferior version of something.

There are various workarounds to that but i have not found any particular good option. Often the best option is to just do a manual downgrade with pacman -U outdated_package.pkg.tar.zst and hope you will not run into dependency issues.

>>108751804
>>108751881
>>108751903
LGBT flag faggotry but for absolute spergs

>>108772947
There doesn't really seem to be the perfect middle ground. Either it updates too slow or too fast. Either you run old software that might have issues or new software that might break during an update. It really makes Windows and MacOS look impressive since everything just works there and you never have to think about any of this.

>>108772282
Finally someone said it. Yeah running one command to update everything is great but what good is it if there's no packaged updates because someone has to make it his full time (unpaid) job to constantly maintain it? Appimage is fucking excellent with its simple "double click and it just runs" usage but the difficulty needed to integrate it with your system (auto updates, make it a default app, etc) leaves room for improvement. Flatpak is gay because I just want to download a file and have it work without any extra connections but Flatpak insists on me downloading the .flatpak which then downloads the actual program. Snap is super gay because Ubuntu.

>>108773103
the perfect middle ground is de-coupling system updates from user software, so appimages and flatpaks. both can be downgraded or pinned without breaking other software.

Making a flat tier list for distros is kinda retarded. It needs to be at least a 2D graph with quality as one axis and ease of use as the other. I can't be assed to memorize how to set up gentoo even if it is technically superior.
Also separate it into server vs desktop. Debian is top tier server and mid tier desktop, Arch is top tier desktop and low tier server.

>>108773147
>Flatpak insists on me downloading the .flatpak which then downloads the actual program.
Not really. You're thinking of ".flatpakref", which is just a reference to the URL of the app on the remote repo. This is what you get when you download a "Flatpak file" from Flathub, for example. It's basically like downloading a file which says "wget https://flathub.org/some-app | bash". That's why they're only a couple of Kbs large.

But Flatpak apps themselves can be packaged into a ".flatpak" file which is the entire app. Lots of software is packaged this way.
The thing is, Flatpak apps are not fully/instantly standalone like Appimages. They rely on a Flatpak Runtime and usually additional (flatpak) dependencies like Gtk/Qt libraries. So to get a fully offline behavior you'd need to create a bundle with those dependencies and install that bundle before installing your Flatpak apps. It's one extra step, but it's the equivalent of caveman behavior so most people don't do it or talk about it. It's almost like moving Distrobox container images with you to install .deb files on non-Debian/Ubuntu systems. Or like moving wineprefixes with you to run Windows executables instead of just re-downloading WINE, and setting up a new prefix and pulling in the required dependencies. Most people will just connect to the internet or use something more convenient, like an Appimage or Runimage.

>Appimage is fucking excellent with its simple "double click and it just runs" usage but the difficulty needed to integrate it with your system (auto updates, make it a default app, etc) leaves room for improvement
Appimages can be made in a way where they ask you to create .desktop files so they're discoverable in your start menu and are found by your system's "Default Apps" selector. In-app updates are possible, and there is software like GearLever which lets you set up updates for your Appimages.
Sadly, Appimage format is abandoned since a critical library it relies on is unmaintained.

Let me make this easy
>Platinum Class
Void, Pop OS
>Shit Class
Everything else
>Lower than Shit Class Tranny Tier
Shartix
There see how easy that was?

>>108751804
Debian, Fedora & Arch are the only real distros.
And Ubuntu, Bazzite & CachyOS are the only forks worth any speck of shit.

>>108773382

Yes appimages seems like the least bad option of the 3 but the only appimage i am currently using is the openshot one (due to not getting the AUR version to install and work).

>>108773503
Void and Pop are the only real distros. See >>108773468

>>108773204
>Arch is top tier desktop
its mid at the best.

>>108773531
>literally who-what are real
See >>108773503

>>108773554
Allow me to educate your retarded ass.
>Pop!_OS
Dev team is all white.
Only professionally maintained distro to publicly fight back against age verification.
Distro is rock solid and the best plug n play on the "market."
Developed a new DE and actively working to fix bugs.
Actually listens to their community.
>Void
Rock solid distro.
Built from the ground up
Developed its own package manager
No systemd
No forced wayland
Solid support from maintainers
The best and most helpful community

Now do you see? You're not a Shartix user are you? Arch user, with your HRT meds and thigh high socks?

>>108773503
You know what, I kind of agree. At least when it comes to home or office PC usage. But there are definitely distros that are made for special use-cases which are significantly better than the ones you've listed.

>>108773726
>But there are definitely distros that are made for special use-cases
Agreed.
Look at you for example.
You have Shartix for your inability to control your bowels. And you have Arch for your desire to be a woman.

>>108771939
>if less than 0.2% of all PC users are using your distro then it is clearly unusable.
So every Linux distro is unusable? Why single out Debian?
>>108772133
>I wouldn't say it is unuseable
Ok, so why are you involved in this conversation since that's the point of contention? I don't care if you like Debian or not, this exchange started when an anon claimed it was unusable as a desktop OS, which is clearly not true.

>>108774531
>So every Linux distro is unusable?
Did you just wake up from a coma? Linux passed 5%-6% market share this year.

>>108774604
"Linux" isn't a distro

>>108774609
The usable distros have more than a 0.5% market share.

Linux? That jeet troonware has new privilege escalation bugs every day.
Use secure software, use Windows.

How would you even try every single one of these? I have tried a few, on usb sticks and just go back to windows or android.

>>108751804
Fedora should be above Arch

>>108776629
>have 2-4 computers
>install a different distro on each
>use them all for a week
>repeat until you've tried 20-40 distros

>>108771285
I really wonder what kind of software you updooters run where updating it constantly at the very latest version feels so good.

>>108779921
No one has a fetish for updating and most people see it as bothersome (me included). People would still happily run Windows XP if it weren't for security reasons. This discussion is only about the Linux desktop since it is in a perpetually terrible state so having quick updates is necessary to fix at least some annoyances. In the end it is still bad though.

>>108751804
Entire list is made up of trannyware

Just get a Windows if you're new. Or Mac if you're a professional

>>108781080
windows_taskbar_trans_flag.png

File: IMG_0292.png (5 KB, 418x472)

5 KB PNG

>>108751811

>>108781080
>Or Mac if you're a homosexual
Fixed it for you buddy