>>108752096
It's too late. Go had already pilfered the Python devs who care about performance. Meanwhile, former Ruby Enthusiasts will always be on the latest trendy meme, which will never be Java.

>>108752096
>Out of the box, the JVM mogs most languages in performance.
n00b can't distinguish "runtime environment" from "programming language"

Java sucks. JVM = good stuff.

Java is amazing, all Java hate is astroturfed by midwit plebbitors and jeets trying to project their jeetness on to others

>>108752325
Java is nice in school projects
but fuck real-world EE Java, fuck it until the pain goes away

>>108752325
Java hate is literally old memes from the 2000 when Java was slower than C++ and uni professors made fun of it for it.
Then microsluts started bashing it but since their shitty copy was even slower they focused on their silly "reified generics" and pointless value types (in spite of the fact that having separate non-object types is exactly why Java was faster).
That's about it. Unfortunatelly, since the internet got big exactly as this culture was going strong it became an established part of internet programming memes.

>>108752410
Java was super slow on an old desktop to launch because it had to load the whole huge runtime first

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>>108752344
Jakarta EE is amazing, shame it got removed from the standard library
C++ has nothing equivalent to it except maybe Poco (fuck Boost, it is the most garbage framework ever conceived)

>>108752410
I have nothing against C#, and I wish Java had developed with the same adoption of new features the way C# did as well as giving lower level control like in C#
Java lacks a centralised ecosystem like C# and Rust as well unfortunately, but even Apache managed to do a great job making the Java ecosystem far easier to use than anything C++ had
As for the Java hate, it all comes from plebbitors spamming Durgasoft ads by claiming that ever Java user is a durgajeet, or seething about OOP (as if any of their procedural Cnile slop has ever accomplished anything) by making a bunch of assmad copes about AbstractProxyPajeetBeanFactoryManager even though literally no one does this except for themselves when they got filtered by Java in their CS 101 class
Every accusation is an admission of guilt

>>108752096
>gradle
Dude, no.

>>108752096
Op is a faggot
>>108752276
Java is the apple of programming world, it's not going to be deprecated but it sure adopts k00l language features 10 years after it has been released.
>>108752471
Nigger, you don't use Java for desktop apps
>>108752600
Maven is king

>>108752096
>replace Python as the go-to performant
what the fuck are you talking about retard?

>>108752629
people do

hell, I'm currently running a 20 year old java desktop tool at work every day
though that's super fast now compared to the modern equivalent: electron apps

>>108752667
Turtles are faster than snails but they're still both slow

Use the right tool for the right job. You want a desktop application, use gtk, qt or whatever the fuck. Just don't use fucking Java, that shit's straight out of my grandma's coffin

uhm unc, 'language' doesn't matter anymore. Whatever AI decides to use i'm good with it

>>108752410
the only programming language that deserves hate is PHP for being Israeli and sneaky about it

>>108752096
How do you navigate the Oracle problem though? Remember when they sued Google for the use of Java in Android for $8.8 billion?

>>108752629
You clearly weren't there in the early 2000s when Sun was shilling Java as the compile once, run anywhere platform and big enterprises fell for it hard.

The reality was the worst of all worlds, with the system administration burden was just shifted into managing java versions (complicated by Microsoft Java). The apps and applets were slow to load, wasted a shitload of memory and had awful, non-native UIs with idiosyncratic elements that were significantly inferior to standard Windows and Mac apps. Browser-based tools of the time were simplistic html forms, but at least you could copy/paste text and scrollbars worked properly.

>>108752410
>uni professors made fun of it for it.
It was uni professors pushing Java over C++.

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>>108752585
>it all comes from plebbitors spamming Durgasoft ads
Java was mocked long before Nagoor Babu Sir.

Java is shir mo necessarily because of the language itself, but because everytime I have to run/compile an app, I have to know which JVM to install, I have to know and care about versions, I have to deal with non-posix bullshit, screw this shit. Literally anything is better than Java in this regard. Also, if you want closest to Java in terms of flexibility, try D. Java is horrible.

OOP needs to die already.

>>108752867
This. OOP and JVM was something the academia circlejerked about because it sounded good to them. It only caught on because it was a bit more practical than functional programming. Of course it didn't matter that in real life the perf sucked and it encouraged bloat. These days it only sounds better because Web shittery overtook Java in the slowness and bloat.

>>108752096
Way too RAM-hungry for today's RAM market.

>>108754281
>Way too RAM-hungry
By default. You can easily tune it use little RAM.

>>108752142
last time I tried go I was able to build something in windows 7 without it shitting bricks, that's actually impressive for a modern language

>>108752600
true, gradle sucks, ant is the way

>>108752761
The big mistake Oracle made was killing SPARC.

Nigger Babu
Icon of Java

>>108754639
Go is a glue language

>>108754834
Doesn't have to be if you are competent.
Java devs are notorious for having trouble in different paradigms.

Sorry just going to use graalpy

>>108752096
>Modern Java is absolutely amazing
without virtual threads (which are still pretty newish) doing stuff concurrently in java was pretty shit and having to deal with (completeable)futures and all of that convoluted reactive stuff is just sad. that being said since big corps and agencies still widely use it (at least in my yuropoor country) the ecosystem just provides you with most stuff that you need and you don't spend much time tinkering around

>>108752096
C# is objectively better designed. By magnitudes even.
I used Java for years in IT projects in finance and learned to hate it. I had been a C/C++ programmer before.
When I eventually picked up C# I was surprised how elegant it is, how convenient and intuitive to use.

>>108754641
what's wrong with gradle?

>>108755246
having to use a whole programming language that is not even java itself just to configure your project is pretty meh

>>108755404
still better than whatever C has
your IDE should handle most of the effort of configuring the project, anyway

>>108755246
It takes a lot of RAM and space, I have like 10 diferents JDKs in my home folder now.

>>108755173
C# blows Java out of the water on almost all fronts for building a backend or microservice.

>>108755173
I think Java is more elegant than C#. C# is the kitchen sink.

>>108752841
Yeah, clearly people around your age did not know how to use a functioning brain if you fail to stop corporate from doing bad decisions. Your generation sucks lol thank god I did not have to work with you fucktards.

>>108752967
>I have to know which JVM to install
>I Have to deal with non-posix bullshit
>Literally anything is better than Java in this regard
You sound like you haven't red a single documentation in your life mate, have you tried doing anything useful with your babby's first linux aside from `sudo pacman -Syu`
>>108754923
Java devs are just incompetent uni graduates who worked in Accenture for a couple of years and don't know anything else
>>108754979
Most consumer-facing banking backends are still built on-top of Java and it's not gonna change

This thread is ass, I'm jacking off to Zara Larsson's ass

>>108752096
isnt everything typescript these days?

>>108752096
Only retards and niggers are still using java. Use kotlin if for some reason you want a jvm lang.

everyone in amazon still uses java

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java is the digital jew
booz is the liquid jew
picolisp.com
happstack.com
swi prolog web app server
lisp ISSR +lisp Clobber together
or gnu clog with lisp clobber(prevalence layer)
aidaweb.si
https://github.com/yuriy-chumak/ol
J language of course
werc.cat-v.org + vinyl-cache.org

>>108756575
>kotlin
>cocklin
Tell me you haven't reached 6 figures without telling me you haven't reached 6 figures

Scala

>>108752629
>Nigger, you don't use Java for desktop apps
fuck you
>tuxguitar
>jdownloader2
>eclipse
>sweet home 3d
>>108752717
>use gtk
laughs in com.sun.java.swing.plaf.gtk.GTKLookAndFeel

>>108756504
>Most consumer-facing banking backends are still built on-top of Java and it's not gonna change
I mean that's exactly what i said, but that doesn't change the fact that java is shit at concurrency

>>108752096
it will never replace python because jeets make up majority of developers and they can't code in java

>>108757951
Are you actually retarded?

>>108756504
Corporations now are making worse decisions than ever before.

>>108752410
Java is still far slower than C++ in everything but the most trivial benchmarks where Java can restrict itself to only primitives. The object headers alone pretty much necessitate that it will always be slow as shit until Project Valhalla is deployed and used everywhere. So maybe in several decades.

>>108752747
The most commonly used Java installer directly from Oracle (the owner of basically everything related to Java and the JVM) installs adware. There is nothing more Israeli than that.

>>108754597
>You can easily tune it use little RAM.
That makes it slow as shit because Java objects have incredibly inefficient memory layout and the garbage collector needs to run constantly in memory constrained environments. The JVM allocates several GB of RAM by default for good reason.

>>108758135
>too dumb to just use openjdk
well deserved tbdesu

https://backendbytes.com/articles/go-vs-java-2026-performance-showdown/
>Go outperforms Java virtual threads by only 13% in throughput on a realistic API — not the 10x gap microbenchmarks suggest
>Java with ZGC achieves sub-1ms GC pauses, eliminating the p99 latency spikes that drove many Go rewrites
>Go containers use 4x less memory (512MB vs 2GB) — at scale, that difference translates directly to infrastructure cost savings
>GraalVM native images close Go's cold-start advantage but sacrifice JIT peak throughput — pick based on your traffic pattern

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>>108752096
Imagine having to place your application source code in src/main/java/com/example/projectname/ and having to deal with the likes of gradle and maven central. Absolute humiliation ritual.

This post was made by the chad .NET NuGet gang.

>>108758319
> you have to use the communist unofficial version so you don't get malware

Nah, I'll just use something that isn't complete dogshit.

>>108758411
>unofficial
the only difference is the licensing, openjdk is still an oracle product

>>108758438
Sorry, I'll just never be a communist.

>>108752954
Perfectly fine and readable

>>108758123
you don't use java to build engines retard
no one cares if some enterprise app is 1s slower if it's 10x easier to write and implement and also way more secure because memory doesn't leak

>>108759633
It's boring talking to you shit eating parasites whose only goal in life is to escape India and pump out absolute slop for shitty corporations. Just go use Spring or whatever other god awful trash you want and stop commenting on programming.

>>108759675
projecting because you're clinging to the one language you learned in 1998 even though it's shit and pain in the ass to use except few very specific cases
or you're just larping because you have no clue what you're talking about

>>108756487
If C# is a kitchen sink then Java is a cesspool.

>>108752096
I like Java a lot. But realistically the majority of people who encounter it in their wagie jobs are going to be on Java 8 at most, which is frankly dogshit.
>going to replace Python
Its never going to replace Python. Get real.

>>108759805
>Its never going to replace Python. Get real.
This. Python is the most popular tool in other domains (you know, the ones that aren't enterprise backend stuff). AI/ML stuff (like over a decade at this point), automation, data scientisms etc, at least according to what I've seen. Java (and Kotlin) on the other hand is used to handle enterprise apis, integrations, android development and so on. Sure you could whip up a windows desktop application with java or do mobile applications on python but at that point, what the fuck man

>>108752096
>Modern Java
ya, ok, just like Modern C++.
fuck outta here.

>>108752585
>Jakarta EE is amazing
ya, don't remind me how many apps were broken by this pointless rename to satisfy Oracle's autism.

>>108759805
java 11*
it's 2026, boomer. java 8 is for dalit software that will never be upgraded and probably has 10+ remote holes (literally most software in real world use ironically as well).

>>108755173
>When I eventually picked up C# I was surprised how elegant it is, how convenient and intuitive to use
>SQL keywords instead of map/filter/reduce
>async/await spaghetti everywhere
>TryTheWholeFuckingLanguage(out var yourDistendedButthole)
>+10% extra lines because of { on new line
>+1 free level of indentation because of namespace
>namespaces don't tie to folder structure so it inevitably becomes a clusterfuck
>assembly bullshit wankery
no thx mate, I'll keep using System.out.println(), it's worth the consistency and clarity of mind over microslop nonsense

>>108752096
writing custom controls in it sucks and is almost impossible most of the time.

>>108759981
both languages are shit honestly, like really shit. dotnet being owned by M$ and being intentionally gimped to the point I see most C# being Windows-tied is telling. Java shit is still free and open source mostly, if you avoid JEE shitware or Kotlin or anything Oracle. Spring is probably on life support now that it's owned by Broadshit.

really the biggest problem java suffers from is ENTERPRISE bullshit where they try and use configuration as code tier bullshit so you can swap out your JMS(tm) driver with one for FlurbleMQ or whatever instead of being stuck with whatever is baked into your uberjar. personally I think it is taken to far and what happens instead is runtime dependency failures, shit performance and completely unintelligible configuration, but whatever.

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>>108758151
>The JVM allocates several GB of RAM by default
are the "GBs of RAM" in the thread with us now you fucking liar?

Java is shit, but it pays the bills.
t. yuropoor java programmer

>>108760052
> task manager
Are you retarded?

>>108760083
Yes, task manager is the simplest way to show ram usage of a program in windows.
Any other retarded questions?

>>108759734
>projecting because you're clinging to the one language you learned in 1998
But enough about Java devs.
Modern software engineers will pick Go (or C#) over Java 99 times out of 100 for what would traditionally have been a good JVM niche, unless they are constrained by a legacy pre-existing java codebase or they have literally never used any other language but Java.
C++ is still the main GUI language and everyone agrees it sucks, but there are exactly no developers actively programming in C++ who even consider Java a viable alternative. They are looking at languages like Rust, Zig, and Odin to replace it.

>>108759934
It's really too bad.
Stability is one of the few remaining things Java still has going for it.

>>108760239
>Modern software engineers will pick Go (or C#) over
actually nobody will pick Go or C# unless they work at Google or Microshit and are FORCED to do so against their will

>>108760269
>j-just violate the license of your software by rewriting the package name in jars bros
>everyone is doing it bro
>what do you mean it breaks the signatures on jars? who even validates those anyway bro?
>ok, so we just remove the signatures now too bro, problem solved, am I right?

It's so fucking stupid how low IQ IT and Java shit is.

>>108760275
Only for C#.
Developers with agency will choose go before java most of the time.
The people who choose Java aren't developers. They are executives who spend $10 million for an rdbms-backed html form because a salesman convinced them it could model their complex business logic.

>>108760275
over java? Every sane person

>>108760542
you're just jealous you don't have $10M to spend

>>108760239
Go sucks for writing complex business logic.

>>108760015
The only think tied to windows is .net framework
and the only *GOOD* non windows IDE is Rider, and even then Visual Studio is better for c#.

>>108760275
Yeah, the streetshitters pick node or django

>>108760542
The only people picking java are retarded boomers or retarded zoomers.

>>108760726
>Go sucks for writing complex business logic.
It's not notably worse than Java.
Go just doesn't have shill teams being paid to persuade non-technical managers otherwise.

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>>108752096
>extremely fast
>can compile to actual machine code, not just some shitty virtual machine
>excellent type system, no Rob Pike retardation
>doesn't force shitty OOP
>functional, but still has loops and state
>devs rejected an giant AI PR and send an AI cuck seething into the stratosphere
>isn't used by normies or retards
>used in finance, big tech and other real companies
Why haven't you taken the OCaml pill yet?

>>108761925
>used in finance, big tech and other real companies
It's used by a relatively small team at Jane Street and that's basically it. I love OCaml but almost no one uses it and it's missing good, well tested libraries for basically everything.

>>108761925
> ocaml
> steals standard ml and fucks with it adding extra semicolons and unportable data types
No thanks, ocaml started as a hilarious enshitification joke but some hyper-religious ocaml zealots emerged before they could be told the punchline.

>>108762423
This is definitely true. Basically everything OCaml added to Standard ML is bad.

>>108762383
That argument of "used at [whatever]" was always tedious.

By that logic, I can say that <major financial exchange> is using Racket, because at some point a few years ago I wrote some minor utility using Racket, just because I could.

(Racket has surprisingly good support for building small GUI programs out of the box.)

take the kotlin pill

>>108760239
>Modern software engineers will pick Go (or C#) over Java 99 times out of 100 for what would traditionally have been a good JVM niche

for pet projects? yes.
for enterprise? no.

java has a much more mature and extensive ecosystem than go and is a perfect fit for enterprise with complex business logic.

go is much less suited for complex business logic. at my previous job (fintech), we tried writing in go and eventually ended up reinventing a stripped-down version of the spring framework. yes, we wrote in go using abstraction layers and patterns, because without them, fintech is very difficult to manage.

besides, the job market speaks for itself. there are almost no go vacancies outside the US. even then, it's usually startups writing in go rather than enterprise.

here in europe, almost all enterprise backend is written in java, and go vacancies are virtually non-existent outside of companies like uber, google, nebius.

.net instead of java? makes no sense.

and with LLMs it makes sense to write everything in Rust, not in go/.net/java.

>>108764906
>complex business logic
Meaningless buzzword. You don't seem tl realize how much saying this undermines your point. Whatever Java might be good for at the enterprise level it has absolutely nothing at all to do with the complexity of the logic the program needs to implement.
>stripped down spring
IOW only what you needed, instead of piles of unnecessary bloat.

>>108752096
it has the best logo