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>>108771027
I literally couldn't live without systemd-timers and systemd-nspawn, the core systemd-init is also great, systemd unironically fixed Linux, fuck cron and fuck sysv initscripts.

>>108771027
I hate systemd as an all-encompassing monopoly being forced into Linux but I appreciate what it stands for and what it is trying to do.

Linux NEEDS a unified daemon manager, Windows Services are literally perfect in all ways one could want something like that. Systemd is just emulating what that does (albeit shittily)

What should have happened is someone should have made something like systemd long, long ago before they required IBM to dump aids into all the most popular distros and ban anyone who complained, but here we are.

>>108771027
How is it killing Linux, idiot?

>>108771297
if you don't know then you don't belong here

>>108771291
This, Linux need some fucking standardization.
Now someone should standardize package management.

if systemd didn't exist we'd probably end up with Apple launchd or Solaris SMF complete with XML cancer instead.

I know the community is autistic but can someone explain to me in an objective way why people hate it so damn much? Like from a user-perspective what does it hinder?

The only init system I like more than systemd is Dinit.

>>108771308
Retardo, you dont even know that yourself. You are just parroting a hipster opinion you heard online.

>>108771362
Only legitimate reasons are that one could call it "bloated" and way too popular in a way that restricts choice if you don't like it. But the main reason why people dislike it is contrarianism, it's the best tool for 99,9% of the people.

>>108771027
Wayland has done more damage and has much greater potential to kill Linux.

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>>108771027
not my problem :)

>>108771027
More lives revives Linux but your subhuman boomer niggerbrain is too preoccupied with fantasies of Jewish meddling than using a computer

>>108771498
I think it is mostly because of the age/ID verification thing it is just a date now but it shows how easy they comply to absolute bullshit laws that hinder freedoms so eventually as the governments push it further which they will because they are governments systemd devs have proven that they will just comply immediately with no resistance which is against everything most people use FOSS for.

>>108771763
>I think it is mostly because of the age/ID verification thing
But people have been hating systemd since its inception

>>108771811
Well that's why I stopped using it other than that I don't really get why, so more recently I think this is why people are moving away from it.

>>108771275
fpbp
OP is a larping faggot.

>>108771362
It's 70% ideological "muh UNIX philosophy" motivated and 30% poettering hate motivated, the former needs to stop UNIX is far from perfect in fact it's kind of shit read the UNIX haters handbook, the latter I can get behind cause he's a piece of shit.
>>108771763
Fact is that age/ID verification on Linux will never be enforceable as long as we have root, real compliance would require turning GNU/Linux into something Android-like which is not what systemd is about.
In fact there are currently other technologies being pushed on Linux desktop which are actually pushing us towards the direction of Android, these are containerized packages (AppImage, Flatpak, etc) and Wayland with it's isolation security theathre.
I also look with a lot of suspicion to all the new "just werk" distros that are oriented to normalfags and gaymers, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those started shipping (maybe preinstalled on some laptops) bootlocked through secure boot and with significant less control (maybe without root access at all) and more compliance, but at the same time it seems that even SteamOS on Steam Machine will be completely unlocked and will allow you to install whatever software or OS you want, so maybe my prejudice is wrong.

>>108771291
>>Windows Services are literally perfect
>need a branching path to call some win32 c api
Only thing better about it is it forces you to set up handling messages from svchost.

>>108771319
You joke, but I believe systemd has some universal service image thing for installing stuff.

>>108771838
>Fact is that age/ID verification on Linux will never be enforceable as long as we have root,
I just got an idea for a new law

>>108771845
>some universal service image thing for installing stuff
Can you be more precise?

>>108771852
No because I don't remember what it was called.

>>108771492
dumb jeet

>>108771851
Making a law against root would be even more impossible to enforce, at that point you're better off making a law that bans Linux unless you're a corporation that uses it for servers, but then how do you actually ban Linux if sharing ISOs through torrent is so simple?
I think this whole ID thing will is not going to succeed, at least not in the FOSS ecosystem, I'm sure that normalfags platforms like web, windows, apple and android will be fully locked down soon enough.

>>108771275
If by fixed you mean handed it to Microsoft on a silver platter so that they now control half your OS, then yes.

>>108771319
Are you retarded perchance

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OP here. Sorry, meant to post this.

>>108771976
What's the difference? Sorry I am not an expert in distinguishing piles of shit. Maybe a resident indian will know.

>>108771917
>poettering worked at Microsoft for few years when systemd was already complete since years
>this means that systemd is owned by Microslop
Never understood this cope.
>>108771959
Imagine having a port-based package manager and format that every distro agreed on and used, we could pool all the mantainers skills and time from all distros in a single effort, this alone would increase the quality of support on Linux so much, it would open up resources to support much more software and it would make it much easier for developers to support the Linux platform.
But no let's keep wasting resources for no reason and blaming others for the mess we have.
>>108771983
>can't distinguish between a display server and a init system
Because you only care about ideology and politics, not about technology.

>>108771027
Never used it since I didn't fall for its propaganda years ago. Funny how normalfags like you are only discovering it now.

>>108771362
I would tell you, but I'm waiting for this stop job to complete.

>>108771275
The only thing I really dislike about systemd are the binary logs, which become a pain in the ass to inspect when systems fail.

>>108772142
That's the unit's problem not the init problem, it means the unit is either not well written or it has a legitimate reason to wait like it's waiting for a disk to unmount cause it's finishing syncing async IO.
But go ahead and just configure systemd to kill the job instantly if you don't care about data loss, you know you can configure it right?

>>108772029
Same, i could tell from a mile away it was radioactive glownigger shit by how "organic" was its adoption (see Ian Murdock "suicide"). I seamlessly switched on devuan at debian jessie end support, never had an issue.

>>108772173
sudo journalctl --directory=/mnt/failed-root/var/log/journal

>>108771275
>systemd-nspawn
Usecase over podman?

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>>108771027
>Saves linux
Nothing personnell

>>108772239
>no global keyboard shortcuts by design
>it's up to every compositor to implement it in an unstandardizable way
>needs a specific audio backend in order to record the screen
LMAO

>>108772466
You say all that like it's a bad thing

>>108772466
>needs a specific audio backend in order to record the screen
No it doesn't. You can use pipewire without using it as your audio backend.

>>108772478
compositor 1:
>use case?
compositor 2:
>krashes
compositor 3:
>one anon's hobby project and thus it's an insurmountable challenge
I'll just use XLibre instead

>>108772482
how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?

>>108772490
pretty funny, ngl
but x11 is broken poopyware, anon
>works for me
ok

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>>108772173
You can configure journald to forward messages to syslog or to kernel log buffer, you can even forward to a socket if you want. Using text logs for systemd will make it lose some metadata but it's a nice backup to have in certain cases.
For example in journald.conf:

[Journal]
ForwardToSyslog=yes

>>108772214
I don't know podman enough to give you a detailed comparison.
But basically nspawn is more about creating a Linux system container than a reproducible application container, you can set it up an manage it from CLI (bind stuff, setup network, etc, all manual via cli), it has a simple declarative config file but it's optional and in general you don't use it via images/registries, you manage the containerized system just like you would with a normal Linux system.
My use case is having isolated contanerized Linux systems inside my main system and I like having full control on them in a way that is integrated with the system.
Basically it's chroot but on steroids.

>>108771917
How does Bill Gates control my PC now that I use systemd?

>>108771027
>systemd-init
dinit is the basically the same thing, except not retarded
>systemd-nspawn
Is just "chroot on steroids" like a gorillion other tools out there like firejail, lxc.
FreeBSD jails are better, and even better still is having an actual scure chroot like OpenBSD with pledge() and unveil().
>systemd-timers
cron is more portable, but if you don't like it you shouldn't get vendor locked into the systemd ecosystem, there are plenty of other alternatives for job control, maybe you would like those even more.

>>108771027
systemd-kernel will fully replace Linux in 2030

>>108773435
>he isn't familiar with the microsoft-ibm connection
ngmi

>>108771904
>at that point you're better off making a law that bans Linux
Based, calling my reps as we speak

>>108773667
Point out the code that makes systemd send data back to Microsoft.

>>108771027
I like .mount units. Use whatever you like to use, but I'll keep using systemd.

>>108771362
I have nothing against systemd being standardised among servers but
>6 gorillions line of code so much greater attack surface
>corpo-aligned
>does 9000 things today, 9001 things tomorrow
>forces you to change well established workflows
>binary logs
>is really annoyingly hard to understand for novice users

>>108773719
>>is really annoyingly hard to understand for novice users
As opposed to....?

>>108773685
>poettering amutable
put that into the search engine of your choice

>>108773733
idk, runit which is like 1800 lines of code including logging daemon?

>>108773783
>Talks about novice users
>Starts talking about lines of code
Bitch, a novice user doesn't care about LOC. All they care is how well the end product works.

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>>108773492
I think you wanted to quote me.
It feels like using a chroot but it's much more than that, it's more like a container or a jail yeah, I've never used FreeBSD jails, but nspawn is quite secure once you configure it right (by default it's not very secure), it uses Linux namespaces, you can also drop all capabilities, restrict most syscalls, remap root to non-root users, completely control filesystem and network, etc.
As for timers, I've tried some alternative crons like fcron but I didn't like any of them, I like my setup it's just ini format anyway not really difficult to make a translation into some other format.

>>108771308
>if you don't know then you don't belong here
This is why you are slowly being replaced by AI

>>108773799
Maybe they should start fucking caring then. Normies not knowing even basic shit like what LOC means is why tech is where it's at today.

>>108773896
Who gives a shit. Does the tool work for its purposes or not? You keep dodging it.

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I migrated to the Freedom Effort and I will give me time to improve Shepherd in any capacity I can.

SystemD is controlled by the Zuckerberg Cartel.
The project is being directed by golemites Potter and Bocassi (servants of the survillance state project).

I'll give you my server when you take it from my cold dead hands you motherfucker pieces of shit.

>>108774012
please link the full document

>>108774130

need to redact it. Give me a couple.

>>108774171
take your time, I'm going to sleep

>>108772625
Yes, I already use

[Journal]
Storage=volatile
ForwardToSyslog=yes

to completely bypass it and to use a custom syslog-ng configuration but unfortunately it's the only component that cannot be disabled and therefore it's literally everywhere.

>>108773883
>SAAAR AI WILL REPLACE U SAAR

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>>108771027
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, SystemD/rustutils, or as I've recently taken to calling it, SystemD plus rustutils.

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>>108774269
Kek, pretending everyone is a jeet for your feels is the saddest of copes.

>>108773837
>you can also drop all capabilities, restrict most syscalls, remap root to non-root users, completely control filesystem and network, etc.
Yes that's what firejail, lxc, docker, everythign else do also. In OpenBSD that's pledge() and unveil().
In Linux, you don't need more than seccomp and landlock to match OpenBSD.
pledge/seccomp control the syscalls and functions you can use, unveil/landlock control the filesystem sandbox.
If you "need" a higher level tool, then firejail is the one normie users prefer.

As a Void user, I have to ask. Wtf is a systemd?

>>108774645
SAAR

>>108773574
>systemd-kernel
Based, make it a microkernel.

>>108772027
What cope you idiot?
Literal CURRENT Microsoft employees are deciding what PRs get merged or not, effectively enforcing their agenda.

>>108773574
I'm waiting for systemd-chatgptd and let my pc entertain itself so i can go outside

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fear the lord

A lot of systemd's "extra" features are dumb but its core functionality is irreplaceable. Some features like slices don't even have a good Windows equivalent.

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>>108771275
The core init and timers are great and have never failed me and I even like the configuration style it is unironically better than shitty fragile scripts (which you can use anyway). The problem is you have all sorts of useless shit that nobody needs tacked on to it. A lot of them are even disabled by default by most distros because nobody knows how to even make use of all that extra complexity
>>108773719
>does 9000 things today, 9001 things tomorrow
lmao if only, you cannot depend on systemd to maintain functionality

>>108777121
All i know is it’s impossible to measure anything accurately with systemd, and impossible to quiesce the system. You look on a typical system and the top 10 historical CPU consumers are all system-d.

Going back to slackware after the final time ubuntu shits itself.

>>108771027
still just werks for 99% of users, touch grass poetterphobe

>>108777121
>I even like the configuration style it is unironically better than shitty fragile scripts (which you can use anyway).
I have a theory that retards think systemd is Windows on Linux just because it uses a configuration format based on INI.

>>108777121
>The problem is you have all sorts of useless shit that nobody needs tacked on to it
True, although regardless of what certain people say it's quite modular, I only have installed a few systemd components that I use.
It's mainly a problem with bloated distros that don't give you control on system components.

>>108776532
define what its core functionality is, even red hat fails at that lmao

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>>108771027
Poettering won. Cope.
https://youtu.be/02kGt4DEW30

>>108771027
unix back then was fine without systemd nor wayland

>>108771027
>2008 : NO BIG CORP IS GOING TO TELL ME HOW TO USE MY PC
>CURRENTYEAR : BIG CORP KNOWS WHATS BEST FOR MY PC

>>108771275
you are literally a retard

>>108779638
Pottering was just the front man of Corpo Linux.

Red Hat / Fedora / Gnome all trying to tell users how to live.

then the bootlicker bend of backwards to defend them

>actually actually here is why gnome is actually good actually

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>actually actually Linux needs Systemd and without it well, i cant even

>>108771608
you can't just post a slither,io snake and consider yourself a winner anon

>>108771319
Linux is already standardized retard. They all use the same kernel and are built around GNU userland expectations. Linux does not need standardization because the more standardized Linux is, the more you are stuck. If you realize something sucks or you don't like the way a distro is heading, you can make a new distro where a lot of things will continue to work. That's why systemd is horrible. If you want something else, it's a monumental task to get rid of it and replace it. Just stick to Ubuntu or Fedora faggot.

>>108771498
It's only the best tool because it's pre-installed on your machine lazy nigger. We could have dozens of init system options that follow a spec, but instead we have a monolithic, inspired by MacOS, init that does almost everything. Macfags want to turn Linux into MacOS so bad. Didn't get hired at Apple and now they want to make it everyone else's problem.

>>108771811
Yeah, they hated it because it's bloated and hard to remove, so if systemd did something unpopular you'd be forced to cope. The age verification compliance is exactly aligned with the original criticism if you can into second order effects.

>>108780449
yes I can

>>108773931
If I make a tool that works, but the metal is radioactive and carcinogenic then would you have that same opinion? Because tech illiteracy is not knowing if the material used in the tool is safe or not, and if they get cancer people will just go "lol you should have known" when their entire life they were told not to worry about it and the information is hidden on some obscure forum on page 8 of Google with the first page being like "It's perfectly safe". It's disgusting how often you see this in many aspects of life.

>>108779565
Anything involving units. Declarative system configuration is very nice, you tell systemd how you want a daemon, cronjob, mount point etc to work and it handles everything for you. There's nothing else that does it as well, even Windows service management is much less powerful despite being significantly more bloated.
Slices in particular are great because you can use them to tard wrangle software. I use it to keep Firefox from eating all of my older laptop's memory and it just werks.

LOOK AT ME! I'M THE LINUX NOW (c) systemd

>>108771027
its open source fag

>>108782719
grim

>>108771275
for me its path units and slices

> Drunk and wanting to stir some shit up
> Want to post some systemd bait to get all the autists riled up
> This fucking thread is already on page 1
Why are you all so fucking predicable
Runit superiority

>>108784283
use case for being drunk?