media and games sizes are big now, high quality images take more size and jpeg is failing to handle it, games include 4k textures that increase the size for people who don't own 4k TVs and monitors
>>108842322Because they are buzzy compressing LLM models to run on a smartphone.
>>108842322back in 2023 you could get a brand new 1tb nvme SSD for like $50that same drive today is $250
>>108842340>back in 2023 you could get a brand new 1tb nvme SSD for like $50>that same drive today is $250I am not american but, I got it for €68 on amazon. Luck and skill. Before all the AI stuff that shit was €54.
>>108842322Get a job. Also, are you one of those fitgirl weirdos?>I LOVE TINKERING WITH COMPRESSION!>YOU JUST WOULDN'T GET IT OK!>PLEASE DONATE.gog.com solved this problem.
>>108842322They do but moving onto something like say JXL only makes sense if everyone has a $1,000 iPhone. Even AVIF is risky so JPG is still the safest option possible, though Webp is a good middle ground now. The end result is some websites embrace better image compression and do end up saving hosting costs and speeding up website loading speed but because 9/10 it's Webp you won't see "WOW! it's 60% smaller!" like you would if they had used JXL. JPG to Webp jump decreases images by 20-30% on average over JPG.
This is why there's been a pretty substantial jump in Webp adoption, meager jump in AVIF adoption, and pretty much non-existent jump in JXL adoption. That 60% better compression technically exists on paper but practical considerations like the fact that not everyone owns a $1,000 iPhone is going to delay it for a while, decades probably.
Pic related for anyone wondering what SSIM scores mean. Basically scores above 0.95 are where most people tend to subjectively rate images as high quality.>the (black) dash lines are 95% confidence intervals.https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Scatter-plots-of-DMOS-MOS-vs-PSNR-PSNR-I-PSNR-S-IW-PSNR-PSNR-A-SSIM-SSIM-I_fig2_261304162
>>108842322You can’t really compress high res game assets and you can’t compress video either without shitting up quality. You can’t compress audio. You can’t compress images for the most part.So what’s left? You can optimize the text in the quest log or the tiny .js bundle of a website, but it’s hardly going to be noticeable
>>108842322When even the biggest (in terms of relevance and bandwidth needs) people tell you to fuck off it's time to face reality and stop pretending it matters if a png is 4mb or 3.7mb when you use this bleeding edge image format that no one supports.
>>108844057You can, you just need to hit really high SSIM scores to not make the existing compression worse. How high is a huge ongoing debate. Is 0.96 SSIM good enough? Is 0.97 SSIM good enough? And so on and so on.
cringe anonette i am with you480p is perfectly fine for anonwe need to look back at original photocd compression as jpeg is stuck at 8x8 right
>>108842322There's no longer a financial hit if it can't fit on a single disc, so it's low priority.People will complain (with good reason), but almost nobody refuses to buy an otherwise good game just because the filesize is too big.>jpeg is failing to handle itMany games don't even use jpeg, and a shocking amount actually use uncompressed files.Outside of games, companies are reluctant to move to a new standard since jpeg is so widely supported, and the gains are much smaller proportion than what JPEG was when it was introduced. At least JXL is seeing increased adoption. Same sentiment applies to other file formats too.>games include 4k texturesThis is a good thing provided it isn't uncompressed. Keeps it sharp up close, even if you don't have a 4k monitor yet.
>>108844238>and a shocking amount actually use uncompressed files.No they don't. 99% of PC games utilize lossy compression, it's just that most play it safe by using BC1 which has horrendous compression worse than JPG so you get the misinformed idea that games are using lossless image compression. You can even tell when this older compression is used because upon close inspection the textures will look like nintendo 64 graphics. While it's theoretically possible to compress game textures to something like JXL and then decompress them on the fly, converting 100-200 GB games to 10-20 GB ones, the loading time would be measured in minutes not seconds, which would drive most people insane and demand an immediate refund.t. aspiring game dev
>>108844484Even 1% would be a shocking amount given RLE and other lightweight methods are trivial, and can shave a good percentage off of most images. It would even cut down on loading time by reducing disk access, since that's usually the bottleneck for such simple methods. I don't know what the actual percentage is but it's more common than it should be.I've dug into the files of games released in the last couple years and found uncompressed bitmaps. Not just bad compression, literally uncompressed. From amateur unity games to professional releases. Hell, I recall a case a few years ago of some AAA game that was criticized for needlessly using many gigabytes of WAV audio. I get that decoding many audio streams adds up quickly, but there are formats specially made for low overhead.
>>108844484>the loading time would be measured in minutes not seconds, which would drive most people insane and demand an immediate refundTell that to GTA online, wasted as much as 20 minutes on badly parsing a JSON file for years
>>108842322The big open world games are based on extremely detailed textures, that change vertexes and pretends to be distant fields, ground, ground roughness, elevation and more. A game like red dead 2 is a lot of detailed maps, and compressing them to just uncompress them would use performance. I will never buy it and download it on my PC thought, it is a problem
>>108842322No profit incentives to do better
>>108844086This is the dumbest shit you posted yet, daiz.What sits in your VRAM isnt a fucking jpeg file. This is a totally different world.Please consider not posting your mental vomit if you have no knowledge of the subject.>>108842322>games include 4k textures that increase the size for people who don't own 4k TVszooming is a thing.The surface with the 4k texture may be larger than your viewport or that 4k texture may be a texture map.
>>108842322Gamers are cattle. If they're already spending hundreds to thousands to play them, they'll 100% be okay with spending extra to store them.>high quality images take more size and jpeg is failing to handle itThey're pretty much never stored as jpegs, jesus christ dudeThere's always going to be limits to compression. Webp can barely get better results than jpeg, h265 is hard to beat, etc. You can't just keep throwing more resources at it and expect the same huge leaps made in the past.
>>108846834yes, there is a use case for those high res textures, and it's a trade-off.Less or smaller textures would mean that you may not be able to throw all those Specular, Metallic, Bump, Normal, Alpha, Emission, Transmission, ... maps in or you would have noticable tiling.And the question about compression on disk is a question about loading speed. You don't want to have a loading screen when you walk from one district into another in your open world game and you want decent viewing distance.How fast is your SSD and CPU?Is reading more data from disk, without having to decompress, faster than reading less data from disk and decompressing?The faster the disk gets, the more the equation tends towards less compression and larger file sizes.
>>108848495>Webp can barely get better results than jpegI don't know man, I'm not really gonna miss those nasty blocky JPG artefacts.
>>108848545awesome!We should use webp for game textures and throw them into VRAM and decompress them every single draw, 120 times per second!I am sure the performance will be amazing!
>>108848563Long-term, that's actually not as crazy as it sounds. Webp has the lowest decoding complexity compared to AVIF and especially JXL, see >>108843968 . I can see an AMD 1488 CPU from the year 2030 decompressing 4K res webp textures to RGBA in milliseconds.
>>108845133>some AAA game that was criticized for needlessly using many gigabytes of WAV audio. I get that decoding many audio streams adds up quickly, but there are formats specially made for low overhead.Could it be that they threw all their assets into one image file and used a very fast compression algorithm on it?Was it an open world mmorpg by chance?Like putting a .wav into an LZ4 would probably be the fastest way to get something from disk to speaker if you got a current-year NVME SSD. It's still compressed, but a compression algorithm than that can decompress with 1500 MB/s+.Games are supposed to show the best performance your hardware can handle. If using more CPU gets higher frame rates, you use more CPU.If using more disk space gets you shorter loading times, you use more disk space.
>>108848610Get lost with your half knowledge, midwit. Adults are talking here. People explained to you multiple times now that regular image formats are not used for textures.Not even are you are a half-knowledge retard, you are also incapable of reading and understanding basic text, if it disagrees with your fantasy world.
>>108842322hardware limitations that actually stopped games from running at all basically disappeared, devs no longer have to get very clever with their asset usage when games will still be actually playable despite using unoptimized full quality meshes and textures that are supposed to be optimized before release.Just look at starfield, forspoken etc. Games still "work" even when no one tries.
>>108848636>People explained to you multiple times now that regular image formats are not used for textures.Because it's currently very CPU intensive to go from webp to RGBA and back to whatever is used in GPUs, got it. However what makes me curious is that they DO show up in some RPG MZ games under 1GB. Granted these are 2D, sometimes hybrid isometric 3D games but the dev tools are starting to show up for this.https://casper-gaming.itch.io/cgmz-file-types
>>108848631I think it was titanfall. 35 GB of uncompressed audio, making up the majority of the game's filesize.To make it worse, it actually contains the compressed versions. They just decompress it all at install, allegedly to reduce CPU usage on bottom of the barrel processors. You cannot opt out even if you have a decent processor. I'm skeptical it would help given how much time is wasted loading excessive data from disk.
>>108842322>tech industry stop caring about compressionnot true at all. google is spending $millions to develop new codecs to reduce youtube bandwith and stockage. they even designed a special in-house chip for encoding youtube videos.sony and amd implemented an hardware decoder for kraken since the playstation 4 (https://www.radgametools.com/oodlekraken.htm)microsoft has directstorage with hardware acceleration for bcpack compression on xbox https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/gaming/gdk/docs/features/console/storage/directstorage/directstorage-overview?view=gdk-2604on pc desktop, both nvidia and amd have hardware acceleration for bc7 (previously known as BPTC).amd is developing a new technique, Neural Texture Block Compression, based on BC1/4 to be used with neural networks https://gpuopen.com/download/2024_NeuralTextureBCCompression.pdf
https://gpuopen.com/compressonator/
