>>108923771
>is devuan stable enough for a server or should i just stick with debian?
imo it is. it is almost all the same packages, plus some based systemv/openrc/etc, plus some patches to make stupid software again compatible with non-systemd

does docker work without systemd or is it some nightmare dependency?

>>108923771
it's more stable and far more responsive because it doesn't have systemd

They won't change the packages. That is all the Debian guaranties.

>>108923917
I typed

sudo apt install dock

pressed TAB and I got docker packages offered, so imo it should work

>>108923917
podman > docker

>>108924145
that's also available on devuan

>>108923771
>Should I trust two OS vendors or just one?

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>>108923771
i use devuan stable with the default sysvinit for my main machine and has been smooth sailing for me since 2020, then again i got into linux back in the 2010s and recently even wrote my own implementation of session process and user services completely from scratch in posix shell so... i may simply be so autist that "problems" most find with devuan aren't even an issue for me so idk hwat ta tell ya

>>108924638
what wm is that?

remind me why systemd is bad again

>>108924651
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Arguments_against_systemd/
it's also slow as fuck compared to every other init

>>108924648
awesome wm, says so in the screenshot after "WM:" and even near the center bottom where the session lists component "99x11-window-manager"

>>108924674
thanks anon, my eyes suck

>>108924693
i've been awake so long my vision is blurry rn.

>>108924638
post pape good sir

>>108923771
Subtle devuan shilling thread, devuan daily thread number 1488, devuan spam
Sorry chud but im adding your distro to my filters, Ive had enough

>>108924660
>it's also slow as fuck compared to every other init
what indian sources do you read? its faster than openrc, dinit,..
speed is the last reason people don't use systemd boot its more a philosophy choice
https://youtu.be/4NXMmHYNYfA
and yeah the video is a bit dated go find yourself a recent video even with parallel enabled on openrc itll be 1-2 seconds slower
ive used gentoo before

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>>108924808
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/6680005

>>108925202
cute!

>>108923771
>should i just stick with debian
the answer to this question, and not just in this instance, is always yes for anything serious

>>108925131
>sysvinit
boots in 30 seconds
>systemd
boots in 10 minutes
>source
my PC

>>108925247
stop using first gen i5s on hdds for christ's sake

>>108924145
Podman has a hard dependency on systemd

>>108923771
i'm sure it's usable. just remember that you're doing it for no real reason and no perceivable benefit

>>108925300
this is linux, you can't enforce planned obsolescence :)

>>108925341
'it runs on old equipment' and 'we make optimization decisions based around running it on e-waste' are two different categories

>>108925317
https://github.com/containers/podman/discussions/20416

>>108925652
>2023
Since then it has become even more tightly bundled with systemd through shit like aardvark

>>108925652
>>108925652
And no i am not going to use host networking which greatly defeats the purpose of using containers.
Point is podman sucks compared to docker, due to systemd dependencies.

I cant imgine who would install Devuan to get away from systemd just to reinstall it again because they need it for podman.

>>108925697
Fuggggg... I guess my homeserver is sticking to Debian for the foreseeable future.

>>108925722
devuan blacklisted systemd on repo level
amprolla's good stuff

>>108925722
the thread mentioned podman has bsd support so i guess systemd is not a requirement?

>>108925763
To the contrary, you will need to install systemd on your BSD to properly use podman

>>108925783
Ok i better say this was a joke otherwise someone will take it seriously.

You can run podman on BSD but that is because their team already did all the massive tweaks and workarounds to be able to use it

>>108925783
>systemd on your BSD
sounds like an STD

Devuantrannies are just seething that Debian is now run by a BASED murder goddess Indian sexo woman.

>>108925813
>finding a gypsy sexy
I guess I'm just too European to understand

>>108923771
>server
just use Ubuntu 24.04
when ubuntu 28.04 comes out upgrade to 26.04
or not, you have like 10 yeras of free support anyway

>>108925813
i hate saars with my life, they ruined linux

>>108925835
it's a home server and ubuntu is filled with a bunch of crap

>>108923771
Alpine

use case for non-systemd?

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>>108928571
imagine needing a usecase for freedom of choice in computing

>>108923771
In my experience, I had a range of problems with booting into the graphical installer - it only worked with Devuan Freia which was not compatible with my machine. I've heard that, for other Anons, it works fine and is plug-and-play in a Debian-like fashion.

>>108929124
>graphical installer
why

>>108929165
Because it is the easiest and fastest way to install the Devuan operating system (for me)

>>108923771
>Based on Debian
Cuckjuan is dogshit.
In fact.... hear me out...
ANY distro based on Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Redhat is in fact objectively DOGSHIT

>>108929193
the ncurses installer is very easy tho

>>108923917
I believe they package docker to avoid any issues. I was able to get a Frigate docker container working with no issues whatsoever, and it seems like a more complicated container that requires docker compose. Overall pretty good

Any distro with the name Juan in it, is an automatic no.

>>108929124
>>108929193
the graphical installer is buggy, just use the TUI installer on the netinstall iso

>>108924093
This is the opposite of the truth, stop misleading people to fit in with your pack of /pol/troon troglodytes who have never even installed an operating system.

>>108932163
>muh /pol/
see >>108924660

>>108932175
Oh, on a site called "without-systemd.org" surely you can only expect an unbiased analysis full of accurate benchmarks.
Stop jumping on bandwagons you don't understand and go wash your ass, useless.

>>108932212
read the whole chain
and no, I'm not gonna buy a brand new computer just because red hat can't be bothered to optimize their slop
literally microsoft tier behavior on their part

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>>108929251
hannah montana linux it is

>>108932237
why are you calling it red hat and not the parent company that ruined it, IBM?

>>108932864
red hat was evil long before IBM bought it

Devuan is full of weird issues like audio straight up doesn't work after installing it. Alsa, PulseAudio, Pipewire, they all say they can't connect to the audio source and anytime Firefox wants to play audio it crashes the browser. But somehow MPV is able to play audio just fine??? The solution is to simply run Pipewire because for some reason Devuan is incapable of doing this itself so I have to add it to my startup scripts.

>>108933073
I had the opposite problem, and I fixed it by purging pipewire and installing pulse instead
I use X11 so I'm allowed to record my own screen without it

>>108933725
i just use pipewire in x11 for audio, after all my session process and user services implementation was built to make that just work https://github.com/eylles/shed

>>108932884
but theyre even worse now

>>108925763
just to be sure long term the solution will be to fork podman, the question is what name to give the fork.

>>108938570
true

>>108936009
I just made a simple bash script to restart certain things, one of them being pulseaudio+pulseeffects+timidity

>>108940432
i had a solution like that before writing shed, at the end of the day managing those as user services from a program made to manage user services is better.

>>108941063
I thought about doing that, too, maybe even finding a way to add user service support to sysv itself, but I'm just too lazy. kek

>>108923771
It is exactly the same as debian but with sysvinit instead of systemd, and packages that depend on systemd have been patched to not depend on it, that's it, otherwise it is exactly like debian (and that's a good thing)

>>108923917
Don't know about docker, but podman works on devuan but things that depend on cgroups need manual workarounds

>>108941528
>but things that depend on cgroups need manual workarounds
Probably because they still use Sysvinit which doesn't even know what the fuck a CGroup is and doesn't setup any resource control whatsoever.

If they switched to OpenRC by default which has full support for CGroups then these issues simply wouldn't exist.

>>108931514
I used the netinstall ISO. I'm referring to the graphical installer within it.

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>>108941545
the netinstall ISO doesn't have a GUI, it should look like picrel.
you can see more at https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/excalibur/install-devuan#installing

>>108941222
Just switch to OpenRC which has user services. I don't know why Devuan still insists on twisting Sysvinit to work in situations it's clearly not designed for. Had they switched to OpenRC by default they would get CGroups and User services for free.

>>108941650
>I don't know why Devuan still insists on twisting Sysvinit to work in situations it's clearly not designed for.
You misunderstood something, I'm not affiliated with them. I don't even have an account on their forum or their IRC.

>>108941671
I doubt their developers know why they do things that way either.

Probably something about them inheriting that mess from Debian and although they have experimental support for other alternatives like OpenRC, Lennart Poettering once raped my nan and from that day forward I vowed to keep Sysvinit working in a Debian derived distro.

>>108941698
sysv is the "just werks" default
you can choose what init you want during installation
I didn't see a point in choosing something else at the time and I don't wanna make a mess by switching now (if it's even possible)
oh well.

>>108941720
It doesn't "Just work" when it's broken in various ways (No CGroups, No user services, etc) that necessitate even more broken workarounds though.

Sysvinit is basically lowest common denominator. It does fuck all so you have to badly engineer what everyone else is already doing.

>>108941650
OpenRC originally didn't have user services, it was only added last year:
https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/commit/bd5745d4c8b428e2bfee9345880cc0077ff9c590
This is actually pretty recent given that OpenRC has existed for nearly two decades now
>I don't know why Devuan still insists on twisting Sysvinit to work in situations it's clearly not designed for
Good software should be hackable to fit a variety of situations, if sysvinit is flexible enough to accommodate Devuan's needs then I don't see an issue.
For example, sysVinit doesn't have parallel service startup, but Devuan added startpar which allows parallel starting of scripts in a runlevel, on the other hand parallel service startup in OpenRC s still experimental and the devs don't recommend it.

>>108923771
debian is a dead distro, it's stable as in "no one is maintaining/fixing shit" which is the worse kind of stable.
most bugs are never fixed, most security issues are never fixed, no one is paid to do anything hence no one gives a fuck.
if you want true stable with good support and security you have to use alma or rocky.

the most important debian maintainers are paid to do it by their companies, the freetard distro would be dead without corporate shouldering the real world, fuck these fucking commie leeches

>>108941830
>on the other hand parallel service startup in OpenRC s still experimental and the devs don't recommend it.
That's just a warning because they favour known deterministic startup that can only be achieved by running everything serially.

In practice, it's fine to enable. I have parallel startup on all my OpenRC systems and didn't notice any issues. It boots perfectly fine with everything running as it should.

OpenRC is just as hackable as Sysvinit, perhaps even more. It has a C core but still relies heavily on shell script function wrappers (abstracted away from the user but if you want to hack on them then it's very easy to do so) which make adding custom functionality extremely easy.

>>108941832
kill yourself red hat shill :)

>>108941886
you will never be a woman

>>108942145
thank god!

>>108942154
why do you defend troonbian which FACTUALLY turned into unmaintained dogshit?

>>108942170
beats being under (((red hat)))'s rule

>>108925364
Is that supposed to be a bad thing "either way"?

>>108923771
Why would you not want to use Debian on your server?

>>108943014
systemd is cancer

>>108944612
Can you show us on this doll where systemd hurt you?

i use devuan on my desktop but
i aint have no time for a server that i dont really care besides doing server things
'just werks ootb guaranteed' is really a good thing even if you want to say otherwise

>>108923771
It's more than stable enough for me, even the staging branch was stable enough for me.

>>108941830
my init agnostic user services implementation is something i've been working on and off since 2022, even tho i designed it based off sysvinit to the point of having output similar to debian's service(8) program under sysvinit it has been usable along openrc since day one, it just happened that as a single dev i abandoned the project for months or spent months in refactoring purgatory, which is why OpenRC's integrated user services implementation released about 15 months before my generic user services implementation could release in it's current state, check it out the code is as simple as i could make it and it is all just 4 shell script files https://github.com/eylles/shed/tree/v0.3.0

>>108944669
>takes 10 minutes to boot without aggressive tweaking
>destroys your SSD's and HDD's
>gives your other devices homosexual names
etc. etc.

>>108946300
without mentioning stupid engineering decisions like logging in anything other than plain text.

>>108946355
>logging in anything other than plain text.
what

>>108946300
meds, now

>>108946394
you didn't know that talmudd uses binary logs that you can only access with their log parser?

>>108946453
You can make journald store nothing and forward everything to rsyslogd

>>108946854
for now.

>>108946867
now is the best time to say no to the talmudic crap of systemd, before it is too late

>>108946854
So the distros that don't do this for their default settings are compromised, got it.

>>108946453
why?

>>108947115
there's no logical reason to do this, so feel free to speculate what their real intent was