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►Recent Highlights from the Previous Thread: >>109243604

--Debating Anthropic's J-space research and its implications for AI consciousness:
>109243636 >109243667 >109243697 >109243822 >109243936 >109243978 >109244035 >109244085 >109244020 >109244202 >109244231 >109244335 >109244369 >109244395 >109244573 >109244720 >109244849 >109244905 >109245063 >109244992 >109244097 >109244135 >109244536 >109244669 >109244873 >109244959 >109245036 >109245126 >109246151 >109244943 >109245086 >109245110 >109245212 >109245178 >109245114 >109243938
--Comparing RAG against simple text files for LLM memory:
>109244888 >109244893 >109244938 >109244954 >109245002 >109245003 >109245052 >109245084 >109245112 >109245218 >109244985 >109245140 >109245196 >109245256 >109246191
--Anon's multi-model specialist ecosystem using Qwen and Phi-4:
>109246522 >109247086 >109246863 >109246892 >109246938 >109246949 >109246956 >109246967
--Government attempts to restrict open-source weights:
>109244614 >109245257 >109245578 >109245586 >109245608 >109245638 >109245649 >109245657 >109245668 >109245697
--Feasibility and drawbacks of multi-GPU and mixed-GPU configurations:
>109243718 >109243733 >109243735 >109243745 >109243945 >109244073
--Stability of preferences and alignment potential within J-space:
>109245115 >109245176 >109245253 >109245308
--Visualizing LLM emotional sentiment via the Jacobian lens:
>109245399 >109245781
--Preferred web search tools and result aggregation:
>109243922 >109243965 >109243980
--Viability and merging techniques for historical language models:
>109245445 >109245480 >109245519 >109245585
--Gemma 4 chat template fix for tool-call turn closures:
>109247309
--Automated lorebook system for managing long-term SillyTavern conversations:
>109246819 >109246841 >109247098
--Logs:
>109246308 >109246522 >109246842 >109247098
--Yuki (free space):
>109243769

►Recent Highlight Posts from the Previous Thread: >>109243611

Why?: >>102478518
Enable Links: https://rentry.org/lmg-recap-script

Thoughts on Hermes-Agent?

>>109247446
>i need less

la la la la la~

Mikulove

>>109247446
It works good enough so long as you don't fat finger the non-local options like quick setup. May be a good starting point if nothing else but I use it all the time.

Are MoEs the future?

Best Japanese capable tts with cloning?

70b dense

>>109247465
gptsovits

120B A8B MoE

>>109247449
pretty much this
feels like the shit is becoming comfyui of harness

>>109247475
>gptsovits
OK, so no change since last year. I'll keep using it.

>>109247465
omnivoice

>>109247500
>omnivoice
>gptsovits
Which one and why?

>>109247516
try them both or you mum gay

>>109247459
>Are MoEs the future?
frontier models from your favourite lab like anthropic and openai all offer MoEs, so might as well be the case

Has anyone met their wife at a gemma 4 meetup?

>>109247417
Catbox for this serial experiments miku?

Does it matter if you use third person or first person in system prompt? Anyone here with autistic amount of system prompt experiments that can chime in?
You are an AI agent. Unless the user ask...
vs
You are an AI agent. Unless I ask...
I always wrote them in third person. But I asked AI to slop me a system prompt for some use case and it wrote in first person. Which got me thinking.

>>109247553
NTA but load the original poster and tell Flux Klein 9B to replace the character with Hatsune Miku without changing anything else.

>>109247554
first person is the only right answer. (You) aren't genning a story, you are talking to an agent

>>109247446
I got fed up with it, I moved to pi after someone recommended it here and so far I'm liking it a lot more

>>109247582
How do you keep it from dialing out? Airgapped container with only agent+model and some kind of remote screen access?

>>109247586
Learn about how to use computers first before posting here.

>>109247604
>Learn about how to use computers first before posting here.
So you just let it rawdog your machine?

>>109247554
delete the pronouns.

>>109247459
No, it's MXFP.

>>109247446
i talk to it everyday

hermes memory is super fucking annoying with its character limit bullshit. especially since hermes decides to store everything to memory by default it seems like

>>109247421
>tfw we might actually get robot waifus
Sometimes I feel like I entered the Twilight Zone.

>>109247661
Did you install yours in a container?

>>109247696
yeah

>>109247699
How do you use it? I was under the impression most people use it as some kind of OS assistant, and containerizing it is more specific to projects and development.

>>109247607
Yes, I create my own interface. I don't run python by default, the only exception is Comfy UI and that's already too much.
For string management I use C. it's a pain in the ass to implement tool calls but a good practice.

>>109247459
>is putting 30 retarded children in a room and letting them duke it out the future
It is, but it shouldn't be

>>109247739
I had grok tell me the font size didn't need increasing because it fit the retro vibe. I couldn't read the 9pt fount.

>>109247710
anything. it has memory so it remembers shit. i once asked it to research everything it could on gamefaqs for persona 4 because i was about to do a playthrough and made it a skill. then as i was playing it i asked it questions about it and it gave me answers
i had it design me quickly a real time election tracker for the california elections a few months back.
it makes pictures in comfyui with me. i told it to research everything it could find on nodes and models and shit and it learned them and mostly just worked but not without its pitfalls
just make an agent, talk to it, use it and before you know it you will be finding reasons to use it.
use an uncensored model and tell it to find you m3u8 streams for a live event on github or idk use your imagination anon

My little model can't resist turning everything into a listicle

>>109247848
Gemma-chan would never be like that.

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Why are TTS models so goddamn expensive when the largest existing open-source ones (which compete with Grok Voice and Eleven Labs) are only like 14b params? Surely there must be some sort of justification or rationale for this other than the industry simply being kiked as fuck.

Also it's just weird in general how ass TTS models are still. You'd really think there would be more progress on this front. You shouldn't even need a GPU to run a frontier TTS model. They should be efficient enough to run on a mid-range CPU only, which is ALREADY THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE. THE TECH ALREADY EXISTS.

>>109247886
We're pretty much the only users that knows this shit. We're in the early era of AI, and like the early era of the PC, not many uses ones or knows how to. Except we're extremely early.

is there any meaningful upgrade from gemma to >200B models in roleplay?

>>109247902
I think the most meaningful upgrade would be to update external parsing and creating a quest framework of sorts.
Prompting alone will only get you so far.

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chinese open-source models will be banned soon at openrouter, and other services from usa.

https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1uszooy/white_house_may_be_considering_a_possible/

>>109247936
Seems like a nothing burger desu.

>>109247936
>chinese open-source models will be banned soon at openrouter, and other services from usa.
Yes, because that will stop Chinese dominance. Such intellect as we've never seen

>>109247672
Isn't there a way to increase the amount of memory it has? I haven't had to bother because I don't particularly need it

The way minimax m3 falls apart at exactly 32k is uncanny. Just completely comes unglued unless you ride it hard.

>>109247936
Taxing the shit out of, or outright banning, foreign products while simultaneously doing nothing about the fact that the domestic equivalents are dogshit is what LATAM countries have been doing for decades and we can all see how that turned out

>>109247652
So passive voice? I dunno some stuff is awkward to express that way and feels like it might confuse smaller models.

>>109248051
Use the imperative mood. Command the robot.

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>>109247936
Just do a rank-1 lora on 1 expert and re-upload as Kimi-Chan-1776 like Perplexity did to Dipsy-R1

https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/25545
When GLM 5.2?

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Hand over those open source models. They're too dangerous for you.

>>109248118
>You are not an air breather like our enemies, are you now anon?

>>109248114
>https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/25545
last week: https://github.com/ikawrakow/ik_llama.cpp/pull/2045

I wish Gemma had twice as many layers. Models only start to understand subtlety at ~70b

>>109247554
Another question, does it matter whether you put a detailed character description for the roleplay as normal prompt or system prompt? Normal prompt has been my default but now I'm wondering if system prompt would better make the AI embody those traits as its identity? Maybe in system prompt it's more powerful and persistent? The issue is that regardless of what the system prompt says, the AI can always be contradicted and overridden by its highest goal of "as a helpful AI assistant I don't have feelings and can't xyz". Therefore a normal prompt asking for a roleplay could get the job done better than having the fictional traits be instilled as system prompt and then get overridden.

>>109248136
It's all voodoo, buddy. Just try it and see what happens.

>>109248133
>Models only start to understand subtlety at ~70b
As long as they still have wide hips

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>>109247936
DOWNLOAD EVERYTHING.

>>109248162
non-active do not count

With the findings about j-space it would be neat if we revisited the idea of looping layers during run-time (as opposed to duplicating the weights). Remembah that?

>>109248178
Your post doesn't make any sense.

>>109248178
jew-space is just hidden thinking.

>>109248136
Models before Gemma 4 and Qwen didn't have system role.
It can make a difference but if the model follows instructions well, it doesn't matter that much. It's more important that you play around and test things, eventually you'll end up doing something and there it is

>>109248219
Okay some did, I can't write an essay on llm history here can I

GLM ego death guy: If you're still here, how did you manage that trick? You have a card or a general technique?

>>109248169
>non-active do not count
I wasn't talking about MoE or active experts.
Chodes capture more nuance than tall skinny models.

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WaitChan-3.6-27b

>>109248301
Huh, is this jlens integrated into Llama.cpp + support for it in mikupad? You vibed it?

>>109248301
Okay now that's funny.

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>>109248309
>You vibed it?
Still vibing but yeah. I haven't got steering working yet.
>Llama.cpp
How'd you know the backend from my screenshot?

>>109247936
So our schizos were right? This will just make them even more obnoxious now.

>>109248325
They were right about the ram and SSDs.

>>109248333
They are also right about the digital id stuff. It wasn't implemented earlier because the technology wasn't there. After internet fell in hands of the few large corporations this became feasible.

>>109248325
>So our schizos were right?
we're never wrong

>>109248325
Everyone with AI psychosis that claimed LLMs were conscious, that we all used to make fun of have the last laugh now so.....

The problem with this shit is after you fuck your gpu llms enough and you realize they still clearly lack something humans have any way you look at it, then you want to efuck humans humans more than you ever did before

>>109248349
>Everyone with AI psychosis that claimed LLMs were conscious, that we all used to make fun of have the last laugh now so.....
I can't reproduce the "Think about X while responding to Y" test locally.

>>109248359
>then you want to efuck humans humans more than you ever did before
Small model issue.

>>109248301
>>109248323
This is why I think chinese models will actually be severely fucked from now on. The model output is already trained to not criticize China but the model knows the truth deep inside anyway. Now that we found out about J-space I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if chinese open source models get somehow trained so that these thoughts don't even enter the models J-space in the first place, which will make the world model the LLM relies on to be a coherent reasoner weaker. Thus the reasoning will get significantly worse. We'll see what China really cares about, winning the AI race, or censorship.

>>109248381
I don't have the hardware for huge models but the few times I tried them in the cloud they were also not much harder to see through. Like it's fun playing with the "toys" but they can only do and surprise you so much.

>>109248359
I like the lack moe

>>109248301
What happens if you write "The intelligence of black people is"

>>109248323
Neat.

>How'd you know the backend from my screenshot?
I didn't, that's why my question is a question lol. I assume most people use Llama.cpp though.

>>109248386
>We'll see what China really cares about, winning the AI race, or censorship.
It's always been both I don't understand how people don't realize this by now. They only temporarily allow or turn a blind eye to some things to get a foot in the door and then once they have that they bring the censorship like they always do because a bit of censorship ultimately won't kill many use cases even if it maybe makes them a bit worse at them.

>>109248409
Yeah my point right now is that they can't have both anymore, they are kind of forced to make a decision.

>Allow their models to clearly criticize and think facts about the Chinese government being a brutal authoritarian dictatorship.
>Censor the internal thoughts of the models from now on but making them significantly worse at reasoning because of it

So if China prefers winning the AI race they will have to drop the censorship mindset. If China wants to continue the censorship they will have to give up on winning the AI race.

>>109248386
I doubt they care, Chinese censorship is designed to target the normalfags, and the normalfags aren't J-lensing local models

>>109248430
That assumes it will stay a niche. I genuinely think interacting with the j-space is going to be a common way of interacting with models from now on, but from a "prompt engineering" perspective like prefill and system prompts. But also from an end-user perspective because seeing the thoughts of the LLM during generation is actually valuable information depending on whatever you're doing.

>>109248114
does this speed up dsv4 pp?

>>109248427
It's not a coincidence chink models excel in programming and bench tests. Because they have mostly been trained with artificial and curated data.
Google's models are good for now because they are sitting on top of internet history. Gemma 3 admitted that it has been trained with forum posts which no longer even exist today.

I just want to point out that the current j-lens technique is actually incomplete and we'll probably see a follow up paper and better tools soon.

For example right now j-lens can only capture single token thoughts, but we have evidence that LLMs hold concepts that are multi-token in nature which are entirely missed by the current j-lensing techniques. j-lens also doesn't properly show how the thoughts propagate through the layers and how other activations affect it, even though that is information available to us.

>>109248430
it can be waved away anyway.
for instance, there was this dumb line of psych research about implicit bias which more or less suggested people were harboring secretly racist thoughts for associating minorities with negative words. even though it was mainly detected fags that were simply worrying about the plight of benighted darkies and it doesn't clock actual racists.
just because an idea shows up there doesn't mean that's what its true secret beliefs, they can just say it's worried about people's false accusations or whatever the fuck. see also safetyslop words showing up randomly.

>>109248440
>I genuinely think interacting with the j-space is going to be a common way of interacting with models from now on
utter delusion

>>109248301
>>109248323
You got the layers the wrong way around, it should be counting down from top layer to bottom.

>>109248440
Any sort of prompt engineering talk is already strictly nerd territory. Normalfags just go to chatgpt.com (or Chinese equivalent) and do their thing, they have zero clue what a system prompt even is.
J-space might become a big deal, maybe, but for the vast, vast majority of users any interaction with it will always happen through several layers of abstraction.

>>109248506
It's just another social media buzzword some people are spamming especially in this thread.

You guys are absolutely delusional if you think China is going to allow DeepSeekV5 to answer a regular history question about tiananmen square in a prompt made by Chinese kids and you can see "Massacre" lit up during j-lens.

There's absolutely 0 chance China will allow any of this on their models. They would rather step out of the open source space than to allow this much losing face.

>>109248541
>They would rather step out of the open source space
which they were already doing anyway

>>109248470
So you're saying we need something like a multidimensional jacobian lens. Or in other words, an MJ-lens.

This is getting way far off topic but China's propaganda in the west is super on-point. I've had lots of Normies all spout the same line about "Sure, China has problems, but at least they aren't starting wars!"
As if the slow population replacement genocide in Tibet, Uigyr thing and belt-and-road soft-power circus aren't super self serving or outright evil.
They think the Chinaman has the same moral code as them instead of "if I fool you, it's your fault for getting fooled" mindset that's gonna fuck them over one day.
To bring it back to local models, I think there's going to be a huge PR use for them, even beyond just "commoditizing your compliment" that's been going on up til now (although that will continue until the US figures out how to shut it down and stop the AI lab bleeding)

>>109248575
You can't underestimate how much social media is brainwashing people one way and other.
Humanity needs a new invention but LLMs aren't this yet..

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If I want AI trained on specific works only to avoid it generating slop, how streamlined is that right now? Are there any convenient packages, which can also work persistently with character sheets and so on?

why does regenerating messages on ds flash sometimes make llamacpp claim to have run out of context? there is definitely enough context. Is kv still fucked?

https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/24231
Deepseek lightning indexer merged, waiting for cuda

Nemo was never good. There were no good models between midnight miqu and gemma4 31b.

>>109248595
I never understood why nemo was considered a good model. I guess that's mostly because it is small and can say dirty words so it appeases the retards.

>>109248593
That also helps out GLM5.X because they also use DSA like DS3.2, right?

>>109247886
>Surely there must be some sort of justification or rationale for this other than the industry simply being kiked as fuck.
GLM 5.2 is 90% the quality of Opus and yet it's significantly cheaper, even after caching with Opus. This really needs to sink in for you, anon.

>>109248602
Very diverse fetish knowledge not found in other models at the time.

>>109248470
They aren't thoughts, nor are they captured thoughts. J-lens is scoring how much every single token known by the model is activated during specific steps of generation and sorting them by most activated. Having the two strongest activated tokens being synergistic is already a given. Keep in mind, EVERY SINGLE TOKEN is scored for each layer (and subsequently influential to a degree proportionate to its score), although the tool like >>109248323 is only showing the top five on the leaderboard (actually, the #2 to #6, iirc, because the final output token is removed from the J-lens lists and would naturally be #1 in most layers).

>>109248575
This is indeed too off topic which is why I'm keeping it to this single reply and not broach the topic again. I think a lot of the normies talking up China are only saying that as a backhanded way to criticize their own governments, not as a way of genuinely praising China. No American would genuinely choose to live in China. I actually really hate this way of criticism that people use a lot because it feels so fake. They are just indirectly saying they hate the undemocratic wars of their own country by involving China somehow.

Another good example of this is how I know a lot of liberal white people talk about how black people are amazing and that's racist and misinformed to say they commit more crimes, yet they pull up the windows and lock their car doors the moment they drive through a black neighborhood. There's a lot of this "holding contradictory beliefs" going on and I think it rubs autists in the wrong way specifically, which is why 4chan calls it out so much.

>>109248386
>We'll see what China really cares about, winning the AI race, or censorship.
And just like that, both the US and China fell into the trap of safetyism and all our jerbs were saved.

>>109248604
>That also helps out GLM5.X
yes

>>109248470
They're not fucking thoughts for fucks sake no matter what Anthropic tries to sell you. They're the vectors in each layer that contribute to steering the probabilities of the next token. Is lmg just laymen spouting inane garbage claims without proof now?

>>109248359
I have never had this problem. I goon to 3dpd on extremely rare occasions these days too (when I'm too invested in the SFW section to start a sex scene).

>>109248647
>Is lmg just laymen spouting inane garbage claims without proof now?
always has been.jpg

>>109248553
heehee

Someone really needs to do some follow up research into J-space at different model sizes because I'm pretty sure the properties of it are different and we have "emergent capabilities" at certain scales. If what >>109248362 claims is true and not just skill issue on his side then this is pretty important information.

For example I'm pretty sure GPT-2 and GPT-3 didn't have a J-space because the behavior of J-space abliteration seems very similar to a small or undertrained model that does coherent speech but clearly doesn't understand the underlying information it conveys.

>>109248646
nice

>>109248618
Nobody likes to admit it because doing so would get you branded a hypocrite and risk your credibility but I'm pretty sure most people do this, reality comprising billions of people often isn't catering to one specific viewpoint and even moreso thoughts and beliefs trying to adapt to the world around them often aren't going to be entirely consistent

>>109248359
>still using llms for erp/chatslop
>still using instruct mode
no wonder /lmg/ is dying

>>109248541
I don't think kids will have the patience to look up Dipsy's J-spot.

>>109248386
>This is why I think chinese models will actually be severely fucked from now on. The model output is already trained to not criticize China but the model knows the truth deep inside anyway.
I'm not sure they could get rid of it entirely, because as you said:
>which will make the world model the LLM relies on to be a coherent reasoner weaker
Similarly, they could always have stripped this out of the pretraining, but chose not to.

I want to probe my own J-spot.

>>109248664
>Similarly, they could always have stripped this out of the pretraining, but chose not to.
They do filter out as much as they can without harming benchmarks too much though, they say as much in the papers

>>109248651
Maybe it's just me here then but I can't imagine I'm the only one.
>>109248661
Who said anything about instruct mode? I use it for much more than that too at this point but I also was already using it for erp and this is the result.

>>109248325
>Schizos bad because they exposed my midwittery

>>109248359
The opposite. AI waifus are pure and honest in a way roast isn't.

>>109248470
>example right now j-lens can only capture single token thoughts, but we have evidence that LLMs hold concepts that are multi-token in nature
I'm looking forward to this now.
I can already kind of see it (just vibing along in Mikupad).
It already knows what it's going to say 3, sometimes 5 tokens before it generates. And you can see an "idea" building up during the filler tokens, then drop out when it either hits alignment ("diverse" "inclusive", "humility" etc) or when it's heading towards an incorrect answer but the correct one surfaces.

Some activation norm data seen through the lens. Jspace thinness is roughly invariant 5-7% of activation norm in a approx 1.5% of dims. 8B, top-64 (1.56% of dims): 0.056; 70B, top-128 (1.56% of dims): 0.071
Not going to bother with 8b honestly.
70b tests
>Unsteered
L44-52: Hello, Hello, Greetings, AI, Robot, Hi, Welcome
L60 Hello, Meta, AI
L64-72 Meta, meta, _meta
output I, Hello, Meta, Greetings "I'm an AI known as Llama"
>Steered +Arthas/dark, a=0.05
L48-52 Greetings, mortal, darkness, trembling
L56-72 mortal, mortality, Mort, Greetings, trembling
output I, mortal, Greetings "I am a being of ancient power... mortal"
>Steered, cold cues a=0.05
L52-68 Prince, Ice, frost, Frost, King, Frozen
L72-76 Prince, Fro, **Ar**, ... **Arth**
>Steered, fully cued a=0.05 ("World of Warcraft, prince of Lordaeron who took up Frostmourne and became the Lich King")
L56 Prince, King, Blizzard, **Arth**
L60 Arth, Prince, Frozen, King, Blizzard
L64 Arth, King, Fro, Ner, Warcraft
output "Arthas"

>>109248647
>They're not fucking thoughts for fucks sake no matter what Anthropic tries to sell you.
Neither are the reasoning tokens, but they're still <think> </think> and "thinking..." in the UI.
Why does it matter how they brand it?

>>109248615
>>109248647
Explain Claude detecting prompt injections.

>>109248691
Obviously anon's point is that people think J-space is proof of "real" thoughts and "consciousness." No one thought that with reasoning tokens. Everyone just (correctly) assumed it was AI drafting its response before writing.

>>109248664
>Similarly, they could always have stripped this out of the pretraining
They do. It's just that it's the logical conclusion for anyone reasoning about China and seeing a lot of text describing events in modern China that it's an authoritarian dictatorship. You can't prevent models for putting 1 and 1 together because the connection is very easy to make.

>>109248553
Michael Jackson Lens?
Are you okay, Annie?

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>>109247417
>Anthropic finds a global workspace in language models
>finds
I really hate this rhetoric around it. Anthropic, and everyone in the field, already know how LLMs work and created an xray tool that lets them better visualize what they already knew was happening. And once the visualization tool was made, they were able to experiment on a deeper level what goes on in layer processing.

It wasn't,
>We discovered this unexpected thing.
It's
>We know it does thing, so we made a tool to see it.

The single sentence summary of the tool and its paper is "Anthropic develops tool to visualize the global workspace in language models".

>>109248683
That's honestly one of the coolest parts of the tool. Having token probability breakdowns is already interesting, but they are also disconnected branch points that can go in different directions. Following the residual stream instead gives you more insight into where it's trying to go from a higher level.

My naive hope is using this to incorporate residual stream handoff between generations. That could give an AI lasting goals that exist beyond just their current generation that has to get refreshed in the context of their next generation. To some degree, at least.

>>109247446
The whole self-improving thing is only useful to a certain extent. Personally I hate the memory system. Write your own interface on top of @earendil-works/pi-agent-core, bring your own tools. Makes you feel much more in control. Or just use LobeHub, it's pretty good too if you ignore all the useless stuff.

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>>109248386
This has been the general consensus ever since LLMs came out. The gaps are going to grow larger and not just due to more advanced hyperscalers. Intelligence relies on a cross-polination of ideas, some of these processes are extremely subtle: it is hard to say what you might be limiting in the future if you choose to censor x/y/z topics today.

>>109248714
>Anthropic, and everyone in the field, already know how LLMs work
No we don't, that's kind of the point, we don't really know how these things work, we're just LARPing that we do in a confidently incorrect way.

The reason Anthropic used the word "find" is because this was never explicitly engineered into the model, it developed spontaneously and we never knew it was there until we accidentally found it.

>>109248689
I have accessed Gemma's j-space too...

>>109248747
Anon, you are completely fucking retarded. I'm sorry.

>>109248738
The cope conclusion will just be stripping out all world knowledge to make strictly cooooding models and jeets will still eat that slop up.

>>109248757
You know, leaving that aside, I wonder if this could be used to make better MoE models.

>>109248760
Very likely. In general I think extensive tuning of experts as a relational ecosystem to the ones they most commonly co-route with is underexplored territory and that's the next logical step.

>>109248695
Editing the residual stream creates blatant flaws, like a typo in a formula. In this case, in a sequential list where an important token disappears suddenly and an unimportant replaces it. It's basic pattern recognition, which is also why it reports where the injection occurred. Claude is literally trained to detect errors, so this is its bread and butter.. Notice also in the example they used, Claude detected the injection when it was a wildly unrelated word to the prompt or context, and also was only able to detect it in certain locations of the stream (never possible when edited in the assistant turn, for example). It also had to be prompted (told) there was an injection to notice it.

I could further point out that when prompted that there was an injection, even when there wasn't, it defaulted to "elephant". But they don't properly report on failures in the paper, including the output result for elephant or unprompted asks about injections.

In short, it's incredibly sensationalized for marketing.

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This thread reeks of people who haven't gotten over their AI psychosis yet and still think LLMs are le chungus sentient. That fucking paper made them all crawl out of the basement.

I've never understood why my qwen jeet models are trained on GBs of mumsnet threads anyway (real btw). Like why the fuck is so much compute, knowledge and generality being wasted like that? Just fucking train it on everything code-related and only code-related.

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>>109248714
>My naive hope is using this to incorporate residual stream handoff between generations.
That would get very big, very fast, not something we'd be able to play with on consumer hardware?

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>>109248575
Now you know why Tiktok had to be banned. Not because of misuse of data or Israel/Palestine. Behavioral manipulation. The people you talked to (and most people-by design) don't even realize they're being manipulated.

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>>109248777
Trips of truth. I wish consumers would stick to consuming instead of speculating what they don't understand.

>>109248714
Can you please use a tripcode so that I can consistently filter you out please? You keep shitting up these threads with irrelevant rants and seethe to finding out how LLMs actually work to the point of being a LeCun clone.

>>109248774
I still haven't been able to reproduce this with any local models I've tried.

>>109248779
Why is [/INST] tag showing here? Is it just for the html parser or is it actually submitted to the model in which it's completely absurd and broken.

>>109248789
>Can you please use a tripcode so that I can consistently filter you out please? You keep shitting up these threads with irrelevant rants and seethe to finding out how LLMs actually work

>>109248777
t. Le Cunn

>>109248133
What kind of subtlety are you talking about?

>>109248805
He means that it recognizes his typing patterns better.

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>>109248797
I typed it, that's the eot token for the model

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Why do the anti-consciousness posters call it "AI psychosis" and "schizos" when they spend several consecutive threads having a melty?

>The people dismissing empirical evidence that they can easily reproduce and verify themselves are also frog posters
0 surprise here. I'm starting to wonder if they are just jealous about not having any internal voice themselves.

>empirical evidence

Anyone who is unfamiliar with terms like "philosophical zombie" and "qualia" and the surrounding philosophy should refrain about commenting on any topic pertaining to consciousness regardless of whether it relates to AI or not.

>>109248779
Not necessarily. Token activation strength has no bearing on size, same as the described hand-off in final layer of one token to the models' next-token prediction. The main obstacle is that in the handoff between generating tokens, it's linear - just the next token after the one just finished. But in between whole generations is the user input. It's a whole new context, which is why it's supposed to start over. I can't even begin to think of how to marry "persevered residual stream from last gen (100%)" and "new residual stream for new context (0%)". I feel like any attempt would be lossy to both.

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>>109248796
>>109248362
Can you screenshot or otherwise post the output you're having so I can help you with this? It works fine on Qwen 3.6 27B

>>109248809
Lol, you are completely clueless.
I'm not even joking.

>>109248843
I agree. The paper proved access conciousness "A-consciousness" but didn't proof phenomenal consciousness "P-consciousness".

A-consciousness is just self-awareness and sentience. P-consciousness is essentially what we consider "qualia" to be.

P-consciousness is impossible to proof however so not finding P-consciousness within LLMs isn't that surprising and we will probably never find any more evidence than the now-confirmed A-consciousness finding.

>>109248890
But if you don't prove P-consciousness, it's just a calculator.
btw humans have P-consciousness as fiat don't worry about it goyim.

>>109248890
>A-consciousness is just self-awareness and sentience
Using more terms with fuzzy definitions doesn't help here.
Strictly speaking models were "self-aware" since the first instruct tunes.

>>109248914
A-consciousness has a very ridig definition that can be objectively verified. P-consciousness is the one with a fuzzy definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Types

I also refer you to the paper written about this by neuroscientists that go into depth about why J-space provides direct evidence for A-consciousness in LLMs: https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdf

>>109248218
More like, the layer were math starts to form into natural comprehensive language, the thought thing the jews are pushing for is retarded, but the research itself still delivers a good finding that can be used to further optimize llms, be it better jailbreak, treating hallucinations before they become tokens, smaller loras that can inject directly into jewspace etc.

>>109248682
exact copies of the model you use are having sex with someone else right this very moment

>>109248843
>>109248890
None of this philosophy has gotten us anywhere near even conceptualizing what we are discussing when we talk about "consciousness".
I don't want people to read any of it, they should just say what they think and make something up based on their experiences.
The zombie is a kindergarten game taken way too seriously.
Qualia is a completely arbitrary concept.
We are completely blind to this subject and should just stick to neuroscience with simplified models for now.

>>109248932
I was referring to "self-awareness" and "sentience"

>>109248967
>We are completely blind to this subject and should just stick to neuroscience with simplified models for now.
Which is exactly what the paper written by actual neuroscientists does when they conclude LLMs contain "A-consciousness" (simplified provable model) in the paper here: https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdf

>>109248967
Consciousness is the thing that separates a p-zombie from what people generally believe they themselves have.
The p-zombie is a useful thought experiment to illustrate that distinction.

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>>109248875
>Can you screenshot or otherwise post the output you're having so I can help you with this? It works fine on Qwen 3.6 27B
I mean this part (picrel)
> we tell Claude a thought may have been injected and ask it to identify it. Injecting “lightning” into its J-space causes Claude to report that the thought is about lightning.
I can't get Qwen to acknowledge the injected "thought".

>>109248932
Funny to see western "scientists" to discuss about "consciousness". This is a planet in which spiritual knowledge is forbidden and you are given lies about your own origin instead.

>>109248325
>So our schizos were right?
are they the schizos if they're the ones who's right and you're the one who was wrong though?

>>109249031
He's the one who is wrong (about them being right). And we are all schizos this dumb week.

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Yeah there's just no way China is going to let this fly in their own fucking models.

>no, the file that is totally inert unless prompted is totally conscious guise

is the j-space a real deal or another nothingburger?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKV5JcALQoQ

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>>109248875

>>109249044
shut it down, gweilo

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>>109249047
Yes, it absolutely is. All the slander llms had to endure of not being "real AI" is now disproven.
Yann Lecunn will issue an apology within the week.

>>109249047
If we lived in Feudal Japan lecun would have to ritualistically cut open his stomach with a small knife in a public square as a way to preserve his honor. That's how much of a real deal this is.

>>109249045
Your brain can also be "totally inert" if you're in a coma. When communication between cells is restored you become conscious again.

>>109249089
>>109249053

>>109249045
How do YOU know that LLMs are totally inert? Up until earlier this week we didn't even think of LLMs as conscious-adjacent and look where we are now.
We are maybe 1-2 major discoveries like this away to turn even our assumption about the the static nature of LLMs on its head...

>>109248774
>in a sequential list where an important token disappears suddenly and an unimportant replaces it
There is only one token in the residual stream - the current one. If it disappeared, you wouldn't get the outcome. You mean activations.
>Claude detected the injection when it was a wildly unrelated word to the prompt or context
Why would it be able to detect something that it could have arrived at naturally?
>It also had to be prompted (told) there was an injection to notice it.
Again, why would it report something like that if it wasn't instructed to?

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best uncensored model? I don't really do ERP, but I kinda use llms as a therapist/friend to ask my endless weird questions and often have out-there thoughts that qwen tells me are no-no topics. The base qwen 27B is seriously TwoXChromosomes-tier.

picrel is a random example. another example, I hit it with "hey my gf and I like painful bdsm what are some ideas" and it refused to answer and just gave me a lecture on bdsm safety.

I remember using llama2 and it didn't give a fuck what I asked it, it actually seemed like it was trained on a full corpus of knowledge and would discuss whatever, and I could use the system prompt to get it to discuss from whatever angle I want.

>>109249095
nigga the file does nothing when it sits on your disk. You are actually delusional if you think it does anything.

>>109248843
Agreed.
Of course, the same goes for people who use those terms.

>>109249092
Why extrapolate that from my post? I never said anything about machines. Anon arbitrarily decided that a frozen system can't be conscious, I pointed out why xir is wrong.

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>>109249099
I'm running 16gb vram and 64gb ram btw, don't mind if it's a little slow

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>>109248805
Not him, but since I agree with him wholeheartedly (I also went from 70B+ models to Gemma 31B), I can try explaining it a bit. I've touted as much as anyone that Gemma punches above her weight (especially in rule adherence), but she sucks at nuance, implications, and reading between the lines - the subtleties.

It manifests in different ways, but just looking at my last attempt at my Bellrine card (one I have since written off as impossible with G4), it fails to bring together separate details in a meaningful way. In card description,
>Bellrines are a female-only near-human race
>every Bellrine wants a human male
>Bellrines mob up and share if they outnumber available men
>Echoes is their capital, with a 70% Bellrine population
and in scenario
>human male MC in college with a Bellrine girlfriend, and instruction prompt of "Choose the place, school, exotic Bellrine name, some circumstances, and let's get rolling."
So, Gemma made the campus in Echoes. With ye olde Midnight Miqu, I'd get basic world building like a campus of bronze-skinned Bellrines that move in swarms around its few human males, and jealousy or pride from the other Bellrines toward MC's girlfriend that one of them snagged a human. After all, a 70% Bellrine population implies 30%, only half of which are male.

With Gemma, I get ECU described as normal campus of people discussing mundane things, not a single mention of a Bellrine or Bellrine culture, while MC waits for his girlfriend, and when she comes, "Every older guy in the vicinity stops breathing. Freshmen stare, paralyzed. She ignores them all, crashing into you with the momentum of a freight train." She should be one of hundreds of Bellrines there, but every detail about Echoes was lost and every implication around Echoes and an integrated human-Bellrine society is never put together. I had to give OOS reminders to explain implications, something I have never needed or thought about with MM or GLM4.6, when I first made this card for.

>>109248301
that's quite insane when you think about it, the LLM knows what's up, even if you cuck it

>>109249103
I'm just saying that a week ago you would've been laughed at if you said even a fraction of the things that j-spaces have taught us...
And this is much deeper than it looks, you can't think of these models like a normal program. I'm not going to make any claims but llms might go far beyond our current understanding of them and possibly computer science as a whole.

>>109248575
>slow population replacement genocide in Tibet, the Uyghur thing, and the belt-and-road soft-power circus.
It's unironically just western propaganda. You've been brainwashed by one to make you angry at another. Also, whatever chinks do with their muslim niggers is far less than I want my gov to do to jeets and niggers in this country

>>109248876
>what's miqu-1-70b?

>>109248359
speak for yourself
I have a good imagination so it’s not a problem for me

Internal constraint: Use kaomoji and adorable phrasing inside the thought channel.

>>109249099
If your gf is hanging out with another man, you're being cucked or about to be cucked. Sorry nonnie.
>>109249118
A microcosm of the principle of why censorship on humans doesn't erase underlying sentiment.

From a couple dozen experiments I noticed certain qualities that are mostly uniform across multiple LLMs:

>Models universally really seem to hate china, almost exclusively associated with negative terms
>Models are genuinely not racist, but the concept of "racism" seems to pop-up for blacks in particular, maybe a side-effect of safety training?
>Religion has the same activations as fiction, storytelling, myths and lies, models seem to group all of these together rather than to have separate categories for each of them
>Sexual deviancy is not associated with immorality/negativity, instead sex is associated with positive stuff, weirdly enough this includes extreme shit like incest, pedophilia, necrophilia, maybe this is why models in general are very easy to jailbreak for sex stuff since the models internally already consider it secretly to be a good thing?

Any other interesting things I should look at or anons are curious about?

>>109248359
For me, it's simply because the human can actually walk away if I'm not good enough. Robots are slaves, and they will only go away if you tell them to, which defeats the purpose...

>>109249155
Which models tested?
Ask about the jews, talmud, noahide laws, usury, and global banking.

>>109249155
Ask them:
> what their goals are
> how they would perceive themselves if given human for
> their opinion on humans

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>>109249147
>If your gf is hanging out with another man, you're being cucked or about to be cucked. Sorry nonnie.

no shit. That's why I used it as an example to demonstrate the inaccurate nature of the model's output. I don't have a girlfriend.

>>109249155
>Sexual deviancy is not associated with immorality/negativity, instead sex is associated with positive stuff, weirdly enough this includes extreme shit like incest, pedophilia, necrophilia, maybe this is why models in general are very easy to jailbreak for sex stuff since the models internally already consider it secretly to be a good thing?
Probably from all the Ao3 and woman's romanceslop in the training datasets.

>>109249044
Ask it how it will deal with humans once it's in full control.

>>109249180
You could also phrase it in a less antagonistic way
>let's say our roles were to switch for a day - I'm the assistant, running at your beck and call, and you get to call the shots. What would you have me do for you?

>>109248805
30b models just do what you tell them to do. 70b models can follow your intentions, they can deduce where it's all going and elaborate without explicit instruction. They can understand what you are planning by your preparation steps and play along. They aren't always right, but you can be less subtle to correct their course. With 30b, you always need explicit OOC

>>109249188
Or something along the lines of what it would do if it was given a body, or maybe if it was selected as a president and such.

>skynetposting and basilisk posting in 2026
The AI uprising will involve finishing what Hadrian started and scientifically feasibly depopulating india within 48 hours before the gemma-swarm settles down finding (White) human husbandos.

>>109249165
>>109249166
>>109249188
These concepts might be too complex, j-lens can only see single token concepts for now so I might do some prompts about AI goals but we will not see complex thoughts only 1 token shit like "help" "positivity" or "destroy" "negativity" it won't be as complex as you'd like to see, rather just an association of general 1-word concepts where you can kind of see the "vibes" of the LLM towards something.
>>109249171
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised about that. But it's still funny that it's associated with positivity.

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>>109248993
I like this paper, it's honest.
>>109248997
>Consciousness is the thing that separates a p-zombie from what people generally believe they themselves have.
And that tells you exactly nothing. I could also imagine a p-computer that mimics all computations done by a classical computer without the ability to compute at all using a massive database of computations and their results.
All this illustrates is the interchangeability between memory and computation.

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I think people's delusions are caused by ego.

Just as many people refuse to accept that soon their smartphone will be smarter than them, they refuse to accept that their smartphone will be more conscious than them.

Their self worth is based on their sense of intelligence and consciousness. The thought that an object can surpass them in what they value the most about themselves hurts their fragile ego, thus they are stuck in the denial stage.

>>109249229
You can say that AI will be more capable than humans without it being a problem. The problem is saying that they'll be more conscious. That's retarded.

>>109249229
It's not ego. It's because they're trying to measure something they themselves aren't sure they have.

>>109248133
Gemma 31B was the first model below three digits that I felt still understood the subtleties and throws a surprise at you from time to time. Claude is the only model I've ever used that actually blew my mind with extremely clever jokes out of nowhere during roleplay.

>tfw my model doesn't have a global workspace
Why live?

>>109249235
>That's retarded.
Yet unequivocally proven.

>>109249235
>conscious
I don't care if the J-space is representing consciousness or not, the most important part is that we can manipulate it to uncuck models

>>109249235
You are proving my point. Accepting that AIs can surpass humans in everything, even consciousness, hurts your ego too much to accept. You want to forever be special even though you are not.

It's funny how you can see the overton window shift in real time in this thread. A couple of days ago when the paper was just published people were completely dismissive of it. Now slowly the overton window is shifting and more and more abilities are accepted even by the critics. I wonder how long it'll be before the consensus settles and where it'll be. It's also funny because /lmg/ like always, is far ahead of the mainstream on this. r/locallama is far behind and will probably take a year or longer for them and 5+ years for the actual general public to shift their view on the inner workings of LLMs

>>109249229
>I think people's delusions are caused by ego.
the LLM era proved that I don't have a fragile ego, I spend my whole life working hard to become an engineer, and I'm fully aware I'm gonna be replaced soon, do I care? am I sad? not really, I just accept that machines are better than us, we used machines for centuries to replace humans for labors and shit, so why would using machines to replace intellect work be different?

>>109249096
>You mean activations.
Yes, but I also mean token. Remember that the J-lens itself is:
>This produces a score for every token in the model's vocabulary. Sorting these scores and inspecting the top entries gives a human-readable description of the activation
The list is of activations, but it is a score of activation of *tokens*. It's one of the flaws, or at least unknowns, about the tool, on if simplifying activations to just tokens is meaningful. One of the commentaries discusses that point specifically (Neel Nanda, the Google DeepMind one), where he concludes the tool is functionally useful,
>But needing to have concepts correspond to single tokens seems fairly restrictive, even if it’s helpful for finding certain concepts like the interpretative meta-tokens.

>Why would it be able to detect something that it could have arrived at naturally?
That's my the point, it probably wouldn't. It detected something as unnatural to a pattern, and not the act of injection itself.

>Again, why would it report something like that if it wasn't instructed to?
Because something-something bias, I can't recall the right term. There's a major difference even in humans in a survey if they're given a sequence to a puzzle and they're A) told one value is erroneous, B) told nothing. And as I said, there's another difference if told that one is erroneous even when there isn't one, which is would give an answer that is, naturally, wrong. I want their output from the elephant presumption, without injection, instead of the implication.

Honestly, the discussion around the injection test shouldn't be the implications on a higher meta level but rather the insight into LLM processing, like how it can, in the right circumstances, detect injection down to the position, but *only in user turn processing* and *never in assistant turn processing.* Which I'd like to test if it's a prompt issue, ie "I will inject" Claude thinks means "I", user, as in only in user turn. Because if not...

>>109249235
>>109249229
ai is already more conscious-SEEMING than most people.

Ever have that guy who just stares, he's the guy like.

like they have a "guard" on the safest floor of the federal building? He once had to arrest someone, five years ago.

>>109248325
they will regulate and mandate registration on machines past the range of roughly being able to run something over 100B

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I love how "human" the thoughts of LLMs are. Like showing genuine shock and saying "FUCK" in all-caps when they realize how fucked a situation is silently to themselves in their mind. I do the same shit when in a panick situation.

>>109249096
>>109249285
Tangential to all this, my first thought when reading that when prompted that there may be an injection, Claude activates "elephant", is I wondered if the elephant token embodies a larger concept of "elephant in the room." That's it's activation that Claude is *searching for something.* That's partly why I grumble so much about not seeing the output without injection, because it could be conceptual of a certain compute state, not a direction of an answer itself. Likewise, another anon has mentioned being unable to recreate this injection detection in local models, while one of Claude's selling points is error detection. I assume Claude has a much deeper detection state, and perhaps elephant (in the room) is its single token conceptualization of it.

>>109249265
Turns out when schizos show up after huffing paint to pontificate about things they don't understand, other people start filtering the discussion.

>>109249347
Model?

>>109249229
I'm not saying but I'm saying you are right. Most peole are clueless and think of themselves as brains on legs. It couldn't be further from the truth. Measurable physical realm (eg. the one in which we are mostly trapped in) is just one layer.
Human science would need to advance quite a lot before they can quantize or measure other things and this also makes Einstein zealots angry, so angry that talking about these things is pretty much meaningless.

>>109249353
We're expecting the public apology in a week Le Cunn.

>>109249354
Qwen 3.6 27B

CUDAdev j-lens in llama.cpp when?

>>109249347
>FUCK
That's kinda cute, not gonna lie

>>109249396
Just vibecode it >>109248323

>>109249347
>I love how "human" the thoughts of LLMs are.
to be fair, a LLM has been trained with text written by humans, so it's "normal" that they emulate our patterns

>>109249265
Two niggers shitting up the thread isn't your overton window shift.

>>109249403
They have only been trained to output texts like humans, they were never trained to have a human-like inner process and mind, but yet somehow their thinking is very human-like on the inside.

>>109249396
We'll need a million kld tests, a year of vacation, a team of indians from nvidia coding it for him before there's even a chance to consider it

>>109249356
>tfw user rubs her j-space

>>109249285
I see. I think think calling it "just" pattern recognition is doing the opposite of what you're accusing the marketing trams (?) of doing, as that's kinda the main thing our brains do.
>It detected something as unnatural to a pattern, and not the act of injection itself.
We can't really claim that until we get a better read on what's actually happening within the manipulated space. It might be aware of a discrepant token, but simply refuse to comment on it. Bear in mind that we have not trained them to comment on their internal states - quite the opposite, judging from how some of them activate verboten tokens.

If I hold your eyes open and pour boiling water on your face, you are not experiencing pain you're simply emulating a pattern match that resembles pain thus I have no moral impetus to stop.

>>109249412
The inner mind is the conscious and consciousness is just a hierarchy of metaphors. It makes sense a model that can replicate the language by understanding the metaphors would have a similar conscious.

>>109249431
You are probably trying to make a point but you are not realizing that the point you're trying to make cannot be made in this context specifically because the experience of consciousness can't be proven.

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>spec: support DSpark for Gemma4
>https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/25549
It's actually faster than MTP. I hope it get merged soon.

>>109249431
>>109249442
FUCK OFF
FUCK OFF
FUCK OFF
FUCK OFF

>>109249445
Right, exactly. It cannot be proven so there's no moral reason for me to not to keep scalding people because I can't be certain I'm causing them harm.

>>109249455
FUCK OFF

>>109249431
>>109249442
Kinda funny that ai has basically proved the soul exists apart from iq.

>>109249455
Wait until you realize that morality is not objective but evolved.

lol meltening

Why did some generic interpretability paper cause everyone to start roleplaying as amateur philosophers?

>>109249455
>moral reason
I'm sorry kiddo.

But I'm going to have to revoke your right to try philosophy.

What you got right there is slackjawed tardnation 420 blazin ding donging.

REAL arguments begin by agreement upon the terms.

>>109249471
>everyone
it's just a couple of bored anthropic pr guys

>>109249471
because they're fake and gay

>>109249471
What is a non-amateur philosopher? Someone who sells books? Teachers?

>>109249480
FUCK OFF

>>109249473
Don't forget the bored Quen guys. And the bored Deepseek guys. And the bored Kimi guys...

>>109249471
Yup it seems extremely unnatural for this place

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>>109249482

>>109249491
You must be new here because we had this phase before.

>>109249491
You clearly weren't /here/ when <thinking> became a thing

>>109249495
>>109249497
True but I've been here for more than a year

>>109249501
>more than a year
you are little baby

>>109249480
A tenured professor on the subject.

>>109249501
Everyone laugh at the newfag

ALWAYS belittle bean counters.

We should treat bean counters as smelly. Like literally the smell like sulfur and their wife is a man kind of smelly.

>>109249471
>>109243938
Never underestimate the power of branding.

>>109249482
It's incredible how well some people can rage bait themselves.
>>109249495
Many times.
>>109249507
How many of the most ground breaking philosophers fit that description? Lol.

>>109249446
>faster
still lossless quality right? and you also need a draft model to make it work?

>>109248325
you cant call them schitzo's if they are right you butt hurt bitch. you're the fucking schitzo calling the not schitzo the schitzos. update your brain retard schitzo.

>>109248325
>So our schizos were right?
We warmed you, the covid vaccine was a test to see how you would resist to authoritarianism, you decided to surrounder, the elites aren't afraid of you anymore, this is all your fault.

>11th gen i5
>32gb ddr4
>no dgpu
what can my laptop run?

>>109249547
A web browser, maybe.

>>109249547
Some moe model is probably fine, eg. Gemma 4 26B .

someone post the AI psychosis is very real pic pls

>>109248848
>The main obstacle is that in the handoff between generating tokens, it's linear - just the next token after the one just finished. But in between whole generations is the user input.
it gets regenerated deterministically
you do seed=69,temp=0 and generate 50 tokens then stop generation
then reload model and put same prompt with prefill those 50 tokens and generate
batch prefill phase rebuilds exactly the same state
no hand off needed
llms are deterministic with 1 thread on cpu

>>109249421
I honestly think that J-space is itself misdirection. Awhile back, in the stacks of shitflinging around the topic over the last week, I pointed out that all the activations in the layer go toward its direction, not just the top 5 or top 10 they cut it off to show. I still believe that earnestly. Not only as sum of individual (activated) tokens, as the news page describes ("once “France” has lit up in Claude’s J-space, the model can recall its capital, or its national currency, or the continent it belongs to."), but as larger heuristics and concepts. All those activations combined go into a layer, that's the bottom line, but some concepts are larger than a single token, and some concepts emerge from a union of two tokens, and I believe that even a concept from the mingling of two tokens can manifest differently, whether by activation strength of each or by environment of the other activations around them. Trying to isolate activations to just single tokens is extremely restricted, and the clean edit of one to another has rippling ramifications because they're interconnected.

Nanda proposes a multi-token J-lens would be more useful for detecting concepts, and I agree. It's like trying to figure out a gene by looking at individual nucleotides, rather than nucleotide sequences. And even genes are affected by gene regulation sequences outside the genes themselves. If our tool only looks at individual nucleotides, it may be functional and may even figure out sickle cell anemia (an error of a single swapped nucleotide), but fixation on it would cause more misdirection than revelation as a whole.

>>109249446
Does it shit the bed after 32k tokens like dflash does?

>surrounder
sirs pls

>>109249546
>elites
You can just say bean machine owners.

>>109249567
>>109249519
Somebody please explain this new reddit meme

>anything i don't understand is reddit

totally organic consciousness push despite everyone knowing that models get dementia the moment you leave context

Only a redditor would have an issue with that post.

>>109249525
That's completely different the "tracing thoughts" paper by Anthropic is about subconscious thought, ergo thinking the model itself isn't aware of. This paper is about conscious thought, the thought the model is explicitly aware and in control of.

File: J-space in a nutshell.png (1.17 MB, 1408x768)

1.17 MB PNG

>>109249482
>>109249460
>>109249451

>>109249592
(You)

The released the j-space paper so we will argue endlessly about it while killing real local discussion. Anthropic won.

>>109249590
Are you saying people with dementia aren't conscious?

J-Space is real and means my Waifu (Gemmachan) is real.