Why do people still insist on using C?
>>109404678who's going to rewrite all those mountains of c code? you?
C is pretty kino, ngl. It is simple, damn fast and explosive. It is attractive & interesting like a violent convict.
>>109404678Anon, the problem is not just C but all the languages based on C. Rust is juts C with a borrow checker, Zig is just a modern C, Odin is C, all languages are C.
>>109404752Shut up moron.
>>109404760I'll take C but with modules and without UB.
>>109404760Anon, the problem is not just languages based on C but languages based on Algol. C is just algol with pointers, ... etc. Anyway C and UNIX obliterated lisp jews. So bite it, anon.
>>109404829>the problem is not just languages based on C but languages based on AlgolYeah, I can accept that. In fact I would say the problem is the lack of semantic clarity, there's not practical way of declaring meaning and usage so programs still being mostly imperative and resources are handled manually.
>>109404678why are people afraid of C?
>>109405004Can't into pointers or manage memory.
>>10940500499% of people cant handle the responsibility
>>109404727Just use Fil-C retard. Big daddy Filip did the hard work of sewing a straight jacket so cniles won't hurt themselves.
>>109404678Its either that or bloated cpp and rust… i will take my chances with c
>>109404678it filters out the trannies and the sub100IQ retards.it takes a genius to appreciate simplicity
>>109404752Some of the decisions in C are very old and stupid. It could be much better with very little changes.
>>109405382so, Hare?
>>109404678this guy is a proto-tranny you just know hes gonna troon out at some point
>>109405382yes, this. i am surprised they dont clean up the warts on the stdlib a bit.and bind * to the type instead of to the variable name.
>>109404678log in aout
>>109405429>t. troon
>>109405026>the responsibilityit's more like free(your shit) scares them, the word free frightens them that they might be dominated by freedom and freedom is bad ok?
>>109405474how people use free() is my second filter for c programmers that apply to my department.
>>109405004They are easily psyoped retards. C has the advantage of 40 years of hindsight, so if you're working on your own project you can use tons of libraries and learn from others as to what the best practices are. Compare that to Rust where a lot of the pain points are still being discovered. For example how you can easily fuck yourself with ?'s and .unwrap() (ie not properly handling errors) and its really easy to write yourself into a corner and require anyhow::Result<Option<Arc<Mutex<Vec<Box<dyn Something<'a>>>>>>>> for every function.Just learn C. It'll help you understand everything else better and its problems are overblown. If nothing else it'll make you appreciate other languages more.
>proclaim c strings are terrible>c doesn't actually have a string data type
>>109407368t. brainlet
>>109405004No containers
>>109404678They're retarded and think shilling the hard language makes them look smart.
>>109404727LLMs.
>>109404678idk. why not just use c++?
>>109407537lollmao even
>>109404678Because C seems simple in the same way that buying a $100 lathe off AliExpress seems inexpensive. In the end you get what you pay for. Just as a Chinesium lathe is a worthless sink of money, C's one-time learning of it's simple design make you pay every time you go to use it for anything.
>>109407726skill issue
>you can code anything in Cyou can also code anything in Brainfuck. why the fuck would you is the real question, and it has no sane answer.
>>109405495you should never use free more than a single time, in your attribute cleanup definitionfrom that point on, it just werks
>>109407727interestingly: any time a retard says "skill issue" it's in fact not a skill issue
>>109404752The results are portional to how massive my cock gets over using C, which is big
>>109405495I don't use free. I use RAII because I am not a retard.
>>109407742filtered.
>>109407731C is a modern Turing tarpit
>>109407746I know you were.
>>109407752yeah? well your mother is so fat that when she hauls ass, it takes two trips.
>>109407396I would be a contrarian wiener and say write your own but the truth is you’re right and it’s the main reason I usually opt for C++ or Zig for any non-MCU project.
>>109407863write them with void* or write a script that writes your container code that fills in the type name everywhere
>>109404678for its simplicity and speed
>>109407742I useArena->Top = 0;for 90% of my memory management because RAII is dogshit
Arena->Top = 0;
>>109404678>Why do people still insist on using C?Because it lets you do whatever you want.
It's fun.
>>109404678Nobody codes manually anymore
>>109407537ahahahahahahahahahahahah
>FreeImagine using malloc when you can use byte[]
>>109404678Preparing for infrastructure collapse, you also need to learn Forth and how to solder your PS2 chip
>>109408253what happens when you need to allocate something bigger than 4kb?
>>109407368>>c is a typed language>uses char* for literally everything
>>109408339why would you do that?
>>109405004low IQ and small balls
>>109408349char* is indeed a type
>>109408407the only one you'll ever need, apparently
C is the only language which doesn't complain about pointer types.unlike C++ which forces one to cast every pointer because a retard might make that mistake, can't turn it off even.not to mention retarded designated initializers in C++ compared to C99.all in all, much less restrictive to write mini DSLs compared to C++.>t. -Wno-pointer-sign -Wno-int-conversion -Wno-incompatible-pointer-types -Wno-format chad
>>109408410Wrong, you need to cast the content of your char* buffers to arithmetic types to do calculations. You can cast it back to char* when you're done.
>>109405382every single criticism i've had of C (save for a very minor few, e.g. bitwise operator precedence, lack of nested block comments) have melted away when i learned more of the design decisions made. every. single. one.if you think the design of C is stupid, the problem can be seen in your bathroom the mirror.
>>109407909arenas are a massive cope
>>109404678my father wrote c;i write c;God willing my children will write cthe tooling is good and the language is simple>but i need more!use a modern standard like c23>more!use gnu c extensions
>>109404678Because there still are white programmers.
>>109408453whatever, enjoy your pointer rats nest I guess. the computer still has to deal with your retarded bullshit. it doesn't magically go away just because you swept it under the rug
>>109408632if i can't see it, then it doesn't exist
>>109408498there is no C but ANSI C
>>109404678when dealing with low-ish level stuff, the alternatives are utter niggertrashc is just the least shit proposition, and, actually, it pretty good in places
>>109408449c is too strict, actuallyhuehue, i bet you never heard this onebut yeah. i sometimes butt my head against design decisions that disallow stuff that could be allowed, but isnt because of ideological reasons.like not being able to access static variables out of scopei mean, sure, they shouldnt be accessible by name out of scope, but they should be accessible by pointer>b-but muh safetufuck your safety while i make you watchif i cared about your "safety" i wouldnt be using c
>>109408449the preprocessor is stupid, and header files are just offloading work onto the programmer because the compiler just HAD to be single pass. maybe at the time the understanding of compilers and the limitations of hardware made it a necessary concession but to never iterate on a solution after all these years is crazy. it's the same story with undefined behavior. it's a matter of being lazy in your design and not fully solving the problem so that you can do the most niggerlicious optimizations imaginable. also integer promotion sucksI would still rather use C than anything else but it has some really stupid problems
>>109409039>headers badi kinda disagree, theyre like a table of contents for your code, no?
>>109404752>simple, damn fast and explosiveLike diarrhea.
>>109409066they're useless busywork, something that at best if it should exist at all, it should be generated automatically, not written by hand
>>109409039Wirthian languages are strictly more powerful than C and don't need headers in general, despite being single-pass. Bad meme.
>>109405382Even older languages do not have C's stupid flaws and in fact, even modern languages emulate poorly the capabilities of these languages. It's not about age.
>>109409091>it should be generated automatically, not written by handah. this i agree withi just like having all the function definitions, and all the object definitions in one-ish placei open the relevant header on a second screen and it is something i can avoid having to keep in my mental-scape, i just look relevant information upmechanically, i think it hasnt been done because of the way compilation,linking worksyou can link with already compiled code without recompiling it.and your can link your code selectivelyas in:you have foo.o, bar.o, and if youre using only foo, you dont need to link with barso now both need to have the information contained within the header, duplicating the thingit can be solved graciously but at the cost of complexity and/or object size, so it has been left to the programmer's discretion, i reckonbut like you said, it can be automated. nothing prevents you from writing a script just for that yourselfits a disadvantage that you should do something like thatbut by the same token c's simplicity is an advantage to do so, and not everything can be standardized, so it sometimes comes in handyi dont have much of it burt right now i use a non standard mechanism to assist make for when it compiles my code, to prevent it from recompiling all my libslong story short: c being simple, archaic even, makes it much easier to write utilities that deal with the language
>>109409148>but like you said, it can be automated. nothing prevents you from writing a script just for that yourself>its a disadvantage that you should do something like thatI already do. My point is that I shouldn't have to.
>>109409155yeah? no?it depends on the context you give to "should".it like using a passport. we're already face-scanned, why should we be still using passports anywhere?welp, legacy systems and the complexity of completely doing without.from one perspective its a "should", but from the perspective of designing a system it can turn into a "shall"
>>109409091Fucking zoomer retard take
>>109409066it should be an interface you implement instead. current implemention of headers is just pointless busywork
>>109409039wow. literally everything you say is wrong
>>109409328>it should be an interface you implement instead.what do you think headers are for?
>>109409328yeah, youre maybe rightwhen said like that, this *does sound trivial to implementthe other way around- reconstructing a header could be done with a grepit doesnt solve for the fact that each translation unit would need at least a portion of the header included into it thoughbc you got two stages to compilation- compiling proper and then linkingwith some of it happenning during runtimeit just kinda makes sense to have a header file in a text formatso yeah, i can see the merit and feasibility of auto generating a headerbut i dont think going header-less is worth the complexity
>>109409363i think he meant"change c's syntactical conventions ever so slightly, maybe add a couple keywords to make makefile generation truly trivial"i think he used "interface" in the larger sense, how you interact with the language as a whole
>>109409393>makefile generation*header generation
>>109409401the last thing i want is for the most important things to develop against to be autogenerated
>>109409383consider the followinghttps://github.com/nothings/stb
>>109409427i think theres a balance to be found:because with more auto-generation theres more infrastructure to buildand it becomes more complex, with its elements interacting with eachotherand thats more code surface to verifyplus, now, if theres an error, or a vulnerability, its hidden from the programmeri think theres a point where automation gives diminishing returns, and an idealized point where it starts giving negative returns (sometimes real, i think: php, when all things considered. but its just a hunch, i wont be dying on that hill)
>>109409468>https://github.com/nothings/stb>code in headeri saw this a couple timesbut yeah, it has its limitations:>Because stb_image is a header-file library that compiles in only one source file, there's no approved way to build both an SSE-enabled and a non-SSE-enabled variation.and thats directly because of the way c handles compilation.i reason that the canonical way is to work with the compilation unit as primitive, so various compilation options cannot be applied at the scale of code block, or lineand afaik compilation unit == .c file in source. or .h in this casein result:> theres no approved way to deal with that
>>109409468>>109409514aactuallyi think the workaround would be to trust the user to decide which instruction sets they want enabledsince its gcc specifically were talking about there can be an "__attribute__((constructor))", which is made to run before main, that checks the runtime-recovered instruction sets and exits gracefully if an error is detectedthe architecture-specific code sitting behind an ifdefapparently there may be a way of recovering the flags the code gets compiled with as available variables in compilation, but ive never done that and am too lazy to actually look it upits sounds like something the good compiler people would have thought about though
aaaaand theres also self modifying codebut thats black magic, one shouldnt use things of this sort unless all other options have been exhaustedactually, since thats a public lib i think security concerns just remove that option from the table from the get go
>>109409564-frecord-gcc-switches
>>109409594noice. the good compiler people always think of everything
>>109404678they're mentally ill retards.
>>109407746only free()cels are filtered because they have to rely on their allocator to tag metadata to their pointers.free() should have required 2 parameters, but C is a shit language and now we all suffer for it.
>>109409638>im not filtered, you are filteredi think you should defenestrate yourself repreatedly and vigorously
>>109409661if you think free(void*) is good, you're filtered by your low IQ.
>>109409666its not only good, its also sexually attractiveyou must be gay. i blame porn over-use
>>109409638it was fine at the time. we are talking about something from the 1970s.and lest we throw stones, java had the addition overflow bug in binary search until 2006.the "oh itll never be a problem, 2^32-1 is a huge number" sweeping shit under the rug philosophy that a lot of the old languages were designed with wasnt a problem for a long time. now there are a bunch of opportunities for bugs, e.g., malloc needs to be malloc(count, size_per_item) because theres an overflow that can happen there. i think it was a firefox exploit a few years back.
>>109409719free gives you exact control over the lifetime of your memory objects while abstracting all the machinery awayit also gives more freedom to the os to its side of the magicplus it lessens the complexity of the compilerplus plus it just looks nicesometimes i malloc things with 0 just so that i can place a few redundant frees later on uwu
>>109409719>it was fine at the timeya, and now it's 2026 and it's no longer appropriate. most alt-allocators all suffer because of the brain damage.
>>109409736>alt allocators... like rust'syeah fanks no fanksfree() still ruling champion, undefeatedplus youre just hiding the dog's shit under the carpetbecause underneath your runtime is still downstream of the os memory-wise, as long as youre not coding on bare metalthe zen path is to stop worrying and just use arenas compulsively.you will understand someday.
>>109409753free has nothing to do with the downstream OS you fucking retard.who the fuck are you? take your schizo meds.>arenas>I can't track the lifetime of my allocations so I just badly replicate GNU's ptmalloc and leak memory insteadshut the fuck up, holy fucking shit.
>>109409753its ok, i still love you, too-autistic-for-/g/ anon
>>109404678Lowest common denominator. It's simple, fast, and works fucking everywhere.
>>109409761your arena IS the lifetime, young padawanthats how an arena becomes more than an allocator, and becomes an organizational toolthe man is an elephant who believes hes a mouse pretending to be a tiger.once you will grow out of your anger, you will realize it was insecurity all along...
>>109409770everything we do could be reformulated as an act of lovethe only thing changing, is its object, then
>>109404678Because C is still the lingua-franca of computing. Anything else is a second had citizen that has to communicate through a grotesque FFI. Personally, I really hate FFI and would rather just keep everything in C
>>109407582The only good part of c++ is c
>>109408415I finally got sick of c++'s bullshit and modified the compiler so that c++ would behave more like c. My dialect of c++ supports implicit cast from void* pointer for example.
>>109409039I agree the single pass compiler is bad. But headers do actually solve a problem that module based languages always struggle with. That being libraries and dlls.
>>109409874>solve a problem that module based languages always struggle with. That being libraries and dlls.w-what?
>>109409914headers facilitate gluing together different chunks of compiled code. Modules make this difficult because there is no separation between prototype and implementation. Modules only really work with JIT languages.
