This is a venting post. Idk if it'll go straight to the archive since it's not very interesting.I'm a software dev. I love writing code since I was 14. I grew up poor and became better, with a remote job and a comfy life, by coding.I love getting lost in code and spending hours without even realizing. I love that this is also actually productive and makes me a living.By teaching friends, I've noticed that this is very hard to learn for some people, and I think that's why salaries are high. I think that's also the reason we're hated by many.And now, those people who hate us have what they want. They are so happy, and rightly so. Because we've been officially defeated.You can cope all you want with>it can't do shit!>(a bit later) its just basically like googling>(a bit later) you have to make a lot of corrections>(a bit later) it still needs supervision. plus its expensiveThe trend is obvious here. We're fucked. And even if this stupid slop doesn't take our jobs, we still have to use it to code, instead of the old routine of writing algorithms by ourselves and getting immersed in it for hours. Plus we have to deal with AI slop code from coworkers. We're basically defeated. Our craft is gone.I don't think I'll ever look for a dev job again. I'll try to switch to management and if that doesn't work, to some other tech job (and obviously change my whole resume to experience doing that, so HR doesn't get the ick). I feel for new grad zoomers. You guys are royally fucked, in this and also in other ways. You should honestly move to south east asia or go ER.
Every software I know has gotten noticeably worse, this is enough to let me know that software devs will keep on existing. Stop caring .My advice, stop being a code monkey, if you are one.
>>109452103This is just another low IQ take on the topic. Reminds me of a friend (he's a great guy though) who thinks that we can avoid being replaced by adding AI related buzzwords, such as "machine learning" or "AI pipeline engineering", to our resume. Kek.Dude. We're fucked. We have to use this slop more and more and it will eventually take our jobs.If it gets to the point where it can make a whole working app from specifications, it will take our jobs. The only thing that's needed for us to lose our jobs is for AI to be able to do that, even if it doesn't get it right every time. Anything else is noise.No, they wont spend hundreds of thousands more $ to make an app because "they can't make up their minds with what specs they want, so they need us". No, it doesn't matter that we also do a bit of design or decision making code for businesses. Other people who are bad at coding and easier to find can do that, and they're good looking and popular and charge a third of what we charge.No, resume writing can't fix this. They just won't be hiring or looking at resumes.No, "people who are great at prompt engineering" or "people with great skills" won't be ok. Saying that just shows some people are very bad at reasoning and don't understand that things would fundamentally change and it would be a waste of money to hire us.
>>109451994uhh...learn to draw?
>>109452103I just wrote a whole rant about low IQ takes on this topic, but didn't actually respond to yours. I apologize about that. I'll respond to your take and why I disagree.Quality of software in terms of what the user experiences is not directly related to code quality. That's more of a QA thing as well as having good specifications and requirements in the first place. So this is completely unrelated.You could have a team of village pajeets who work all night to please the boss, say yes to everything, are 80IQ and their coding training amounts to a 2 week course, and if the app is tested and rewritten over and over until they get it right, and it does what people want and is well designed, there would be no real problem with that app, unless it has to be further developed by the same guys or someone else, in which case they would have to work with very bad code.Your perception of how bad a software got is irrelevant.Also as to "stop being a code monkey". This is a misconception. Things that are hard for people are easy for computers, and vice versa. Eg: Calculators or memorizing. It could, in principle, very well be that AI can easily do whatever you think makes you "not a code monkey" but struggles with "border: 2px solid green" kek
>>109452369what are you talking about
>>109452317>If it gets to the point where it can make a whole working app from specificationsI don't have the heart to tell him...
>>109452392Are you fucking retarded? I'm still hired. There's still job postings for software devs.I mean reliably make an app from specifications that's like what people get hired to make and not super simple.
>>109452391I'm half joking, but yeah, tech is not the only field out there and there are certain specialties you can spec into like GIS that are pretty niche, the roll-out will take years, just be proactive with the job market and you'll be alrightand if not, idk, draw or paint minis for funs i guess
>>109452423so? just because there's other jobs i cant complain about what AI is doing to coding?
>>109452406As am I, Claude needs a bit of a setup but it can reliably make an app and iterate without needing any technical skills besides the initial server setup, you basically give it control to an entire ecosystem, from the server up to domain control in Cloudflare via some reverse proxy like traeffik, for now it's technically demanding but it'll be ironed out soon, as does everything with time.
>>109452461What's your job now? You did that setup on the first day I guess, and then what?
>>109452495Uhh my role is something like a tech-civil engineer, but my job title is a GIS engineer, took me 6 months to pivot, the job requires a lot more driving now but it's much better than pure softwareAs for Claude, it's just a personal project, I already had a home server I rarely used, so I leased it to claude code, essentially gave it free reign to create a rapid development and deployment station, the motherfucker even found a way to map the apps to the domain I gave it using dokploy, unprompted. Now? I SSH via terminus on my phone, give it an assignment, leave it, and check after a few hours, repeat, it performs shockingly well.
>>109451994Why do you clowns think you're not allowed to have competition?Imagine a world where only Mcdonalds was allowed to sell food and any new restaurant was slammed for "destroying their craft" or "taking their jobs"?Monopolies suck ass and there's no reason why software devs or artists shouldn't be criticized.If you don't want to lose to AI then lower your prices or cut your salary so services become more affordable.But since you won't then people will turn to AI to do it instead.
>>109452574I suspected it was something like that. Nothing wrong with that. You even gave me ideas as to other jobs to do, which I appreciate (if you're the one who wrote the gis thing before). But why would you talk so confidently if you're not even a software dev?
>>109452595I never said it shouldn't be allowed. In principle, it should, as technological advancement makes things better for everyone. I just hate it. It is a fact that it ruined things for us.Anyway...>no reason why software devs or artists shouldn't be criticized>only Mcdonalds was allowed to sell food and any new restaurant was slammed for "destroying their craft" or "taking their jobs">lower your prices or cut your salaryHow stupid are you? None of that makes sense.
>>109452663>It is a fact that it ruined things for us.Everyone benefits from convenience. The best coders using AI will always outperform the non-coders who don't use it.Working slower was never option unless, as I stated, you cut your price/salary to compensate.>How stupid are you? None of that makes sense.Everything in life is based off supply and demand.If you were truly extraordinary as a software dev, you would have no issue finding jobs or being paid well.But the truth is most software devs aren't special, but they still demand they have a job forever. Sorry, that's not how life works. You need a better excuse than "I have a College degree".
>>109452663>>109452716Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that outsourcing was always going to be a threat as well.So if a company didn't use AI to replace you, then they would have just gone to Vietnam or some 3rd world country to get the cheaper service.All in all, the autistic rage against AI makes no sense. You should be mad at capitalism for your woes because money has always been the reason society does things.
Both of you are insufferable. It just how retarded both sides of the argument are completely incompetent. The losing jobs argument makes that person feel like the only way to a stable life are established Fortune 500 companies that are known tif pick everything up in the long run. Pro AI arguments are always just “it’s convenient bro, don’t question it,” while ignoring how it damages shit in the long run. There really should be a containment board for this crap my god.
>>109452716>>109452778You're so useless and retarded, you literally didn't say one thing that made sense.>The best coders using AI will always outperform the non-coders who don't use it.I'm talking about the scenario where coders aren't needed.>as I stated, you cut your price/salary to compensateI don't pick my salary, its determined by supply and demand.>If you were truly extraordinary as a software dev, you would have no issue finding jobs or being paid well.I'm talking about how the job is changing as in we have to use AI now, and a hypothetical scenario where we also lose our jobs in the future. You somehow took that as me not being able to find a good job. I guess because you're an NPC and me talking negatively activated a condescending response.I don't feel like going on but everything else you said is also retarded.
>>109452780> Pro AI arguments are always just “it’s convenient bro, don’t question it,” while ignoring how it damages shit in the long run. Do you question your Microwave and Washing Machine? Are they super dangerous too?I don't question AI because it's just a fucking tool that saves time. I don't know why you retards envision these imaginary scenarios that don't exist.
>>109452780What argument? I'm not having an argument with that guy.I never said the only jobs are at fortune 500 companies. Are you retarded too?This guy as stupid as I think he is, didn't even say "its convenient bro don't question it". He said technological progress that takes jobs is also generally good for society overall, which is true.
reddit spaced dalit thread
>>109452830>reddit spacingwhat an imbecileliterally everyone saying "reddit spacing" is a newfag because what reddit spacing originally meant when people started saying it is not what you think it means
>>109452810>I'm talking about the scenario where coders aren't needed.And why? Until AI can literally make decisions for itself there will always be a human helper or assistant needed.If AI does replace that then it would have replaced every job anyway.>I don't pick my salary, its determined by supply and demand.You can absolutely pick your salary.That's exactly what the Vietnamese and Third World freelancers do. They use their skills and talents to get paid way more money than their own national average.If you live in a 1st world country but can't outsmart a third worlder then that's YOUR problem. Not mine or even the market...>I'm talking about how the job is changing as in we have to use AI now, and a hypothetical scenario where we also lose our jobs in the future. You somehow took that as me not being able to find a good job. I guess because you're an NPC and me talking negatively activated a condescending response.Once again, that would require AI being at a level that's smarter than all humans. But by then, society would have more bigger issues to deal with. >I don't feel like going on but everything else you said is also retarded.Whatever Luddite. I'm giving you life saving advice and you turn it down. Enjoy the consequences of your actions then.
>109452813Microwaves and washing machines aren’t internet connected dumbass
>>109451994>And now, those people who hate us have what they want. They are so happy, and rightly so. Because we've been officially defeated. Yeah it's been a great timethe best thing is nobody even cares if the code is shit or even if the product only works like 50% it turns out they never cared at all
>>109452887RETARD BTFO
>>109451994Do you think woodworkers acted like this when electric saws came out?>nooo our craft is dead you can make a shitty cut really fast now I’m gonna kill myself
>109452896Little bit of projection there ain’t it?
>>109452933Why Grug invent fire? Now we lose job chasing lightning.
>>109452896
Don't use AI to enshittify the software, instead, use AI to deshittify the software. Reduce reliance on 3rd party dependencies. Reduce the LOC to the absolute minimum. Increase readability of the code so that codebases can be rapidly audited. Follow the UNIX paradigm.
>>109452988200 IQ post
>>109452868>Until AI can literally make decisions for itself there will always be a human helper or assistant needed.>If AI does replace that then it would have replaced every job anyway.This take is low IQ as fuck. You may not only do programming at work, but if they don't need someone who understands programming, they won't hire a nerd to do the other stuff, they will hire a good looking popular Becky and also pay her less. Or a chad.>You can absolutely pick your salary.>That's exactly what the Vietnamese and Third World freelancers do. They use their skills and talents to get paid way more money than their own national average.>If you live in a 1st world country but can't outsmart a third worlder then that's YOUR problem. Not mine or even the market...This is fucking retarded. What are you even talking about. I can't make literally as much as I want for obvious reasons, but I'm also not going to ask for less than I can. I make precisely market price for what I offer.Again I don't know what I did to activate a condescending response in this NPC but this is fucking annoying. You're acting like I said "wahh guys I can't get a job whyy" or something.>Once again, that would require AI being at a level that's smarter than all humans. But by then, society would have more bigger issues to deal with.No you fucking idiot. Other jobs have a more social component to them, or more varying scenarios that require common sense. Programming is particularly fucked because it's basically turning specs into code. We're actually more vulnerable to this than a receptionist.
>>109452933Maybe. Although I don't think chopping wood is really a craft. But people doing other crafts that were automated, sure. And they'd be right to feel bad.Are you fucking retarded? I'm not saying it's bad for society. I'm not saying it should be forbidden. All I'm saying is, I dislike it and it makes me sad. I think that's perfectly understandable.
>>109453057I don’t think it’s understandable. I think you’re an attention whore. I think if you really cared about your craft you would just practice it regardless of what other people are doing.
PT 1>>109453036>This take is low IQ as fuck. You may not only do programming at work, but if they don't need someone who understands programming, they won't hire a nerd to do the other stuff, they will hire a good looking popular Becky and also pay her less. Or a chad.Guess what? If I hand someone a screwdriver does that mean they will know how to fix a car?I think I've found your weakness. You keep assuming a tool is a substitute for real hands on experience or mastery.Because if you're scared of Becky or Chad who wont know what to do when their AI malfunctions or spits out wrong code then you were probably a shit software dev to begin with.>This is fucking retarded. What are you even talking about. I can't make literally as much as I want for obvious reasons, but I'm also not going to ask for less than I can. I make precisely market price for what I offer.Unless you live in a Socialist society then there is no limit for the amount of money you work for or charge.If you want to be a million dollar engineer YOU CAN, you just have to prove why you're worth that much. So far, you've failed to prove why anyone should pay you even a dollar.>Again I don't know what I did to activate a condescending response in this NPC but this is fucking annoying. You're acting like I said "wahh guys I can't get a job whyy" or something."condescending " it's called critique and feedback. Maybe that's why no company will hire you.If you know so much more about programming than why don't you start your own business? By applying for your jobs you admit you're just a wage cuck who would be nothing without others to guide you.That's why you get paid shit now. You're not special, you're just a cog in the machine like all the other riff raffs.
>>109452378>Quality of software in terms of what the user experiences is not directly related to code quality.
Part 2>>109453036>No you fucking idiot. Other jobs have a more social component to them, or more varying scenarios that require common sense. Programming is particularly fucked because it's basically turning specs into code. We're actually more vulnerable to this than a receptionist.John Carmack debunked this. Dude has been programming video games for decades and yet why does he still have a job and make money despite so many things being automated now?Because he's creative and understands that standards and expectations continue to evolve.Game development actually became more complex when free tools like Unreal Engine got distributed. Not the opposite. Why? Because games are not stuck in the 1990s anymore that required you to animate simple pixels.Get with the times Grampa and stop bitching about tools that exist to help you and can actually make you more money.
>>109453276>>109453237Imagine being this autistic.
I’m a platform engineer. I love this shit. What will happen is only architects and idea people will exist. Everyone else is gone.
>>109451994>can't just prompt AI to double or 10x his own productivityidgi
>>109451994I have yet to see a single non-programmer I know IRL use AI to develop any software at all.
>>109452933thisif people as retarded as op were allowed to be around computers 40 years earlier, they'd whine about C making hecking wholesome assembly """""craft""""" simpler
>>109451994>And now, those people who hate us have what they want. They are so happy, and rightly so. Because we've been officially defeated.People cheered for defeating artists too.That's part of the class war. In-fight between 1 cookies and 1.5 cookie class so plate of cookies can sleep without fear of another boycott Wall Street.
>>109451994robotics. No AInigger is going to physically repair any of my robots that put out millions of dollars of product in a week, not in my lifetime anyway
>>109452595>cut your salarythis is funny for stuff like coding and art but doctors will NOT want to hear this lmao
>>109453748>subjunctive moodThere was a plenty of ink spilled back when dickstra dragged people kicking and screaming away from their clever assembly spaghet.
>>109451994>I love getting lost in code and spending hours without even realizing. I love that this is also actually productive and makes me a living.you love doing nothing all day>By teaching friends, I've noticed that this is very hard to learn for some people, and I think that's why salaries are high. I think that's also the reason we're hated by many.this is all lies>The trend is obvious hereyes, you wrote all this with GPT
>>109453036youre a bot because your context history isnt considering the entire reply chain
>>109451994I used to learn web dev but I was lazy enough that I never really finished the courses.I never liked coding that much, it's a mess of complexity, some coding is fun though but reading other's people code and all that it gets way too complicated.Nowdays with AI tools I was able to build the website game I always wanted. Looking at the complexity there was no way I would have being able to do it by myself.I was aiming to be a SAP consultant as a job, but now that we have these AI tools, I would even go as further as becoming a SAP developer and earn x5 more. The coding craft is absolutely open for everyone now and that's good, at least for me. I've also done tons of side projects and vibecoded tools. Super happy about it.
AI replaces routine low IQ work to some degree. High IQ coding will always be in demand except if AI really somehow becomes super intelligent and generally capable like humans. If AI becomes that smart then it will really replace a lot of human jobs. The new jobs for humans will be in using AI to replace jobs. At the end of the day it will increase productivity which is a good thing. Adapt
>>109451994You are 20 years late. Software engineering ended when shitting out html got called development. It's been stagnant and dead since the .com crahs aside from some lingering projects like XP and 7 and surviving on the fumes of stuff like active directory mobile data anbd neural nets, all 90s tech like PnP etc etc
>>109454512>I was aiming to be a SAP consultant as a job, but now that we have these AI tools, I would even go as further as becoming a SAP developer and earn x5 more.This is b8 right? >>109454512>coding craftYou think crystal reports is 'coding' FFS
>>109452988>>109453001top lmao, sub 0 IQ posts
>>109453174>I think you’re an attention whoreLow IQ>>109453237You don't fucking get it. Things can fundamentally change with this. You can't think outside of what you know.Becky and Chad don't have to know what to do when their AI spits out wrong code, because, in the scenario I am talking about, it wouldn't malfunction, and, if they don't like something about the output (by QA testing), they would just tell it to try again or make a correction.>Unless you live in a Socialist society then there is no limit for the amount of money you work for or charge.>If you want to be a million dollar engineer YOU CAN, you just have to prove why you're worth that much.>So far, you've failed to prove why anyone should pay you even a dollar.What did I do to deserve a LOW IQ NPC trying to be my personal coach and give me condescending self help advice? Telling me things like "broo you can totally outdo yourself and earn more!!" when I just point out that salaries are determined by market prices? I literally just said that salaries are determined by market prices.>"condescending " it's called critique and feedback. Maybe that's why no company will hire you.>If you know so much more about programming than why don't you start your own business? By applying for your jobs you admit you're just a wage cuck who would be nothing without others to guide you.>That's why you get paid shit now. You're not special, you're just a cog in the machine like all the other riff raffs.Some anon says you're autistic. I actually disagree, I think you're just a fucking normie.Either way, you're fucking annoying. Which is it? I get paid shit or I can't get a job? You've been saying both.Damn. This is so insufferable. I literally just wanted to vent about how AI is changing our craft and the negative talk somehow activated this reaction in this stupid NPC.Starting a business is a different line of work. I am talking about programming jobs.
Get fucked. You niggers were jerking each other off about artists getting "replaced" (which still has yet to be true).
>>109453276That guy is talking about game dev. Game dev involves other tasks other than programming, so its irrelevant to what I was talking about, which is the day to day of a programming job.Now you'll probably say something like>bro but you CAN do it!! you can become an entrepreneur too! believe in yourself!! you dont have to be just a coder!I don't give a shit. My point is about programming jobs and the day to day of a programmer, so this is irrelevant.
>>109458702we never did that, i dont even like AI slop "art", idiot
>>109458709If you didn't do that, I'm not talking about you. But during the whole DALL-E crazy that nonsense was everywhere on this board. It invited a lot of schizos, too. The fuckers didn't even try to hide their spitefulness.
>>109452574This post sounds like it was wrote my an LLM. No sane human speaks like that.
AI cucks are 100% indian. spiritual jeets or actual shitskins
>>109458762The "now? ..." is suspicious but you never know from writing style. I get accussed of using AI every time I make a well written comment. It's what NPCs think is the defining trait of AI.The best giveaway is the way AI lacks common sense and just says the most generic cookie cutter shit that usually misses the point. Because with writing style you never know.
>>109451994>Coding>Productive Wut?I guess you'll have to get a real job like a big boy!
>>109456792Where's the bait? SAP consultant pays well, SAP develop pays even more and now its gonna be easier than ever with AI
>>109458921enjoy, you fucking useless midwitwhat was it like trying to learn to code and thinking that none of it makes sense? its literally just logic. the mental acuity of the average person is so fucking abysmal kek
>>109458976>SAP develop pays even more and now its gonna be easier than ever with AIthen it wont pay as much you fucking idiot. if AI gets good enough it wont even be a job. in fact, sap may just stop being a thing. you guys are so fucking stupid.
>>109458993>CodingI have a real job like a grown man. If I need code I just open Claude.ai and get what I need in a few seconds.
>>109459052kek what do you "need code" for?>I have a real job like a grown man.i pity you. imagine being stuck in traffic at 8am. kek
>>109458999Not really, you need to understand all the modules and what the fuck they all do though. SAP won't stop ever existing, if you think so you're unemployed.I mean that's okay for me, I'm not a cooder and I never wanted to be one, but if I can be a functional consultant that can also do code shit then that's gotta pay even better
>>109459171>SAP won't stop ever existing, if you think so you're unemployed.JFL at normies. You have no fucking idea what AI can do and the possibilities and implications.Do you think people are going to need SAP if they can ask AI for any software that does anything they want?In fact. Do you think that if, instead or hiring high paid people who still take time to make software, it could be done by AI on the spot, the way people use computers wouldn't fundamentally change?You normies are so fucking low IQ. Your cognitive abilities are so abysmal. You basically sleepwalk through life just responding to stimuli. You think that AI can code but somehow everything is the same and people are also being hired to prompt it, and they will get hired indefinitely because they deserve it for being highly skilled. This is like saying that, despite cars coming along, good stables who truly understand horses have nothing to fear, and that the demand for horses will stay up because cars can blow a tire.
