Can (You) navigate Linux issues without using an LLM for solutions? Or are you goycattle?
i tried doing that once since people said it's useful. it just made arguments up that don't exist.i feel bad for anyone actually learning linux this way...
>>109624992It's basically required for new users. Human made guides are gone, people just say "ask ChatGPT".
No. I use it for everything to get me the results I desire, allowing me to reach my goals quickly and move on (posting here)
>>109625054i wouldn't know, i haven't been a new user in a long time. pretty sure the existing wikis still exist however. so do man pages
>>109624951better to js read documentation ngl. AI may appear to be easier, yes. People are just cheating themselves out of the knowledge they can obtain through reading.
>>109624951i can, i just dont want to
>>109624951Linux is a vibecoded mess, so of course you have to ask its' real masters now.
Linux has LLMs now?
>>109625054I get the point of some Unix-like systems not even having info or man pages installed. To save disk space.But gutting them entirely? Free software needs free documentation.
>>109625116ChatGPT, Gemini and Claude are all free to use.
>>109624951im goycattleat least I don't ask people for help
>>109624951I'd rather just use an LLM. You don't get extra points by solving them without.
>>109624951Why would I spent 30 min tracking a forum post instead of pasting the output of a couple commands in ChatGPT and geeting the same answer in 2 min?
>>109624951no. I started liking linux the moment I could ask chatgpt for copy paste commands / .sh scripts to fix shit.
>>109625291whatever works for you, but i'd be wary copy/pasting commands without understanding them. that goes for ai's and people
I've been doing that since 2003
>>109625346>i get all my linux advice and help from cleverbot
Now we're gatekeeping based on whether or not people want to waste their time googling instead of asking a fucking bot.Everything bad about linux is its own fucking community.
>>109625132Yeah, but they require an Internet connection and a GUI.>inbefore CLI LLM chat windowsthose require APIs.
>>109625359>the linux community is one person
Before>issue arises, google it, spend 30+ minutes trying random shit from forumsNow>issue arises, chatgpt googles it, spends 3 seconds finding the right command & sends it to youThis is not even to mention that every search engine comes with an AI prompt at the top of your result, which will likely be the solution
>>109625396before:>learn somethingafter:>learn nothingenjoy running into a similar problem later and not being able to just handle it immediately because you copy pasta'd mystery character commands
>>109625418You can learn anything, doesn't mean it's useful.It's unironically more useful to learn how to use agents & have them run the commands for you.
>>109624951I don't know how anyone can use LLMs as an aid for troubleshooting.In my experience, most of the time it returns flagrantly incorrect information.
>>109625503that's the fun part, new users can't tell what's wrong with it!
>>109624951What's wrong with learning?
>Option 1: Spend enormous amounts of time on forums trying to navigate through answers written by complete nerds. So you need at least additional knowledge to even understand what these fat neckbeards wrote. And since it's a forum it might or might not work. >Option 2: Describe your issue to your LLM. Thanks to previous chats it already knows about your exact Linux version and has all the other data too. Receive a solution within two minutes and step by step help everybody with basic computer knowledge understands.Geee I wonder
>>109625503Weird. I got a paid GPT account and every solution works like a charm.
>>109624992>i feel bad for anyone actually learning linux this way...You feel bad for everyone who learned to use an operating system before 2023?
Been doing that for over 20 years. It's how I earn my paycheck.
>>109625555maybe ask chatgpt to read my post for you since you seem to be struggling with it
>>109624951I wouldn't if the online solutions weren't outdated, or buried in some random unsearcheable Discord server
>>109624951>Get new problem I have no idea about>Before LLMs>Search the problem, get a page with the answer possibly buried>After LLMS>Ask the LLM and get the answerI see little difference outside of how efficient it is.
>>109625613Omitting log checks from this example obviously as not all issues call for it.
>>109624951>Can (You) navigate Linux issues without using an LLM for solutions? Or are you goycattle?Yes, and unequivocally NO
>>109625613the difference is learning how to solve problems. eventually you should get to a point where you won't need to ask for help at all. but if you're just blindly pasting in solutions then you'll become reliant on that and keep having to do it.
>>109625653(p.s. this is why your teachers want to see your work, because the answer is beside the point, the point is you understand the question)
>>109625396>>109625527>>109625613wtf is this. did someones bot sperg out? anyway, since all the good websites are kill and llms have replaced human created content, the only options are reading manpages or asking a bot. the former requiring an iq above 90, and the latter will be wrong 99% of the time without a way to check.
>>109624951I've been using Arch for over 20 years, man pages and arch wiki are not and have never been difficult. I run LLMs locally on my own hardware and occasionally use them to write commands for me as a time saver but I can and have done it just fine on my own.Best thing you can tell an LLM for this kind of thing "Be concise and write a command for XYZ".
>>109624951AFAIK people who follow LLM advices for Linux end up in far worse situations that harder to debug because it's takes one missing character or one wrong parameter to fuck things up.
>people are using AI for troubleshootingThis *would* be fine, except they'll probably immediately forget how to do the thing Claude instructed them to do to fix their issue. AI is a very poor substitute for learning and actually knowing what you're doing. You're completely FUCKED if you lose access to your AI.
Thing is: Linux is far from being 'easy' if you have to do stuff with the terminal. It's a software made by complete spergs and the classic way to find information was a deep-dive into sperg-filled forums full of sperg-language. That's what was Linux's biggest problem. Its culture was (and still is to a certain point) a huge deterrent for any people who didn't know much about command line shit nor didn't wanna spend time learning about it. >inb4 hurr fuck you if Linux is too hard then fuck of to Apple or WindowsIt don't matter if ppl get their infos from LLMs or human sperg content. What matters is that LLMs enable every normie to use and troubleshoot Linux. How I know that? I'm one of those normies myself. I just ask GPT and ALWAYS get working solutions. And I give an absolute flying shit about spergoid crap like 'the proper way' or 'AI is a very poor substitute for learning and actually knowing' (>>109625859)I don't wanna 'learn' or 'know' Linux. I don't give a fuck about l33t h4xx0r nerd culture and I sure don't need to understand what's happening in the background. I want a FOSS OS that just werks. And while we're at it: FUCK your gatekeeping attitude. LLMs turned your precious little nerd playground into something usable for everybody. And I got a hunch THAT'S what actually nags you. You don't want Linux to become more mainstream.
>>109625932>You don't want Linux to become more mainstream.yea, because it attracts people like you who just take and not only won't contribute ("I don't wanna 'learn' or 'know' Linux."), but makes demands to change things to suit you instead. ("Linux is far from being 'easy' if you have to do stuff with the terminal. It's a software made by complete spergs and the classic way to find information was a deep-dive into sperg-filled forums full of sperg-language. That's what was Linux's biggest problem.")you don't realise you're the problem which we're worried is going to ruin linux, arguably already has started to. if things go your way we'll just end up with another windows then you'll be all "Ah, OpenBSD, now that's more like how Linux used to be!".i am totally open to new people using linux, but only if you respect what it is.
>>109624951I can, but most of that I learned while trying to use LLMs to navigate issues. The LLM is often confidently wrong due to the user's laziness in sharing the full context of the situation or its insistence that the user had not considered the most obvious steps, after you give it detailed information, it just starts rambling about all kinds of shit until you convince it you've tried everything and how most of the advice is dumb. So in most complex cases I find the actual solution by doing my own research online while repeatedly slinging slurs and humiliating the LLM for how retarded it was.
>>109625932>Linux is far from being 'easy' if you have to do stuff with the terminal.You don't have to use the terminal. Every CLI software on Linux has a GUI counterpart to it these days.>I don't wanna 'learn' or 'know' LinuxSo you don't actually want to learn about the OS you're using? You don't want to educate yourself? Not even a little? That is genuinely the most closed-minded things I've ever read on 4chan. And I've been on /pol/ before.>I don't give a fuck about l33t h4xx0r nerd cultureNobody's saying you have to automate everything with shell scripts and use dwm as your window manager. But I would implore you to at least try to educate yourself about the OS you use on your computer, whether that OS is Linux, Windows or whatever else. You should always be trying to learn and expand your knowledge.This is why AI is harmful: It begets people like this, who are not only content with staying ignorant, but actively avoid learning new things.>FUCK your gatekeeping attitudelolwut? I don't give a fuck if you use Linux or not. Go ahead and use it. All I'm saying is: Learn, expand your knowledge and don't rely on AI to do everything for you. If your AI helps you troubleshoot something, try to remember how you did the thing it told you to do. Be curious. If your AI tells you to copy-paste a command into a terminal, ask it to break that command down for you and explain what it does. Curiosity is one of the things that makes us human. Without that, you're just a shell of a person.
>>109626159at the end of the day i don't actually care if someone like that uses linux, the fact he isn't contributing mean he's not actively harmful to it.what i'm sick of though is people like this constantly berating people who do care about linux while simultaneously using or wanting to use it.terminals/clis come up regularly. linux is made by and used by people who like to use a terminal, you don't /have/ to like it, but it's nonsensical to get mad at someone who does. i don't pester people on /fwt/ that there aren't enough cli tools in windows, because i know better to think that's what windows users want in the first place.and things like "It's a software made by complete spergs and the classic way to find information was a deep-dive into sperg-filled forums full of sperg-language.", yea, linux is made by nerds, so it suits nerds. so what? you wouldn't go to /a/ and complain about anime, would you?
>>109626029>but makes demands to change things to suit you instead.Where did I make demands you sperglord? I told you that I use LLMs to fix my problems instead of asking others for help. >i am totally open to new people using linux, but only if you respect what it is.Read: You want only other spergs to become new Linux users. >>109626159No, I do not want to educate myself. I want to know enough to use a tool, I don't have the time or interest to head-dive balls deep into everything I use. I use computers without knowing every detail about how they compute. I know how CPU and RAM stats work together, that's enough. I can enjoy a whisky without knowing every last detail of its flavor components. And I can sharpen my kitchen knifes without knowing shittons about metallurgy. And that's perfectly okay. Linux is but a tool for me. It's not my hobby of my job so there's no reason to learn more than I need to use it.
>>109626241>No, I do not want to educate myself. I want to know enough to use a tool>I know how CPU and RAM stats work together, that's enough>It's not my hobby of my job so there's no reason to learn more than I need to use it>so there's no reason to learn more than I need to use it>no reason to learn moreSo what you're saying is that you have no sense of curiosity? That's just sad, man. You sound like the captain of 70 IQ normalcattle, you know that?
>>109626316>So what you're saying is that you have no sense of curiosity?No that's obviously not what I wrote you mong. Reading comprehension, ever heard about it? My curiosity focuses on things I find interesting: Hobbies, interesting parts of my job. Neither computers nor software are hobbies of mine. They are tools.I can use Photoshop with closed eyes. Why? Because it's a huge part of my hobby which is photographic art. And even though it has many functions I don't need I took and take the time to learn about them because I find these possibilities interesting. But lemme guess: You're are so 'curious' that you even read all the shit on the back of a shampoo bottle huh?
>>109626189>wouldn't go to /a/ and complain about anime, would you?Tons of people do this, there are threads about how only the specific subset of anime that aired on Cartoon Network is good while complaining about everything else. 20 years ago somebody who claimed to be an anime fan but only watched English dubs would've been laughed out of /a/, now you have daily threads defending dubs, using Funimation/4kids character names, crying about fanservice, crying about Japanese humor, crying about everything that made anime anime. Every board is like this. Every nerd hobby is overrun by people who don't actually give a shit about that hobby.
>>109626369>Every nerd hobby is overrun by people who don't actually give a shit about that hobby.You sound EXACTLY like a whining boomer>DANG KIDS AND THEIR PUNK ROCK>WHY DON'T THEY WANNA LEARN BARRE CHORDS LIKE I DID?I laugh at people like you
>>109626369that's pretty sad.
>>109626369>HOW DARE THEY DON'T ENJOY A HOBBY THE EXACT SAME WAY AS I DO? THEY'RE DESTROYING EVERYTHING. LMAO you fucking victim.
>4chan was founded in 2003 with most anons back then being teens and early twens.>Now, 23 years later, these guys are middle aged men>Complaining the exact same way as average.middle aged men doFunny innit?
>>109624951Working on code without using AI is like trying to hammer nails with your fist. You might be able to do it, and others might find it impressive in a carnival freakshow kind of way, but it is far from the best, fastest or most efficient way to do it.
>>109626408>the linear progression of time cannot be stoppedNobody thinks it will happen to them. It happens to everyone. It'll happen to you.
>>109626408what's funny is you came here expecting something different, then annoy us about it
