Would the Pacific War have happened regardless of what was going on in Europe.
>>17953334Yes , japan invaded china already in 1937
>>17953341It's sort of hard to imagine Japan attacking the Dutch, British, and Americans at the same time if two of them weren't already occupied(literally and figuratively).
>>17953334Japan was happy to trade for the oil and rubber its growing empire needed.The war would never have occured without the sanctions.
>>17953334Japan's war of conquest in Asia began well before Germany's war in Europe, but they avoided attacking European holdings in the Pacific until 1940, by which point Europe was preoccupied with Germany, and Japan had formed an alliance with the Nazis giving them the confidence to aggressively expand through southeast Asia, and eventually attack the United States.Without German aggression in Europe, and no alliance with Germany, Japan likely would've been a lot more conservative in who it attacked, because Europeans would've been able to divert more resources to fighting them. I think they still would've moved into southeast Asia, because the US and other countries would still have embargoed Japan for its conquests in mainland Asia, resulting in an energy crisis for Japan, and the only way they could really resolve this would be invading Indonesia and taking control of its vast energy reserves.
>>17953349>The war would never have occured without the sanctions.The sanctions happened because the war.
>>17953341How does a war between Japan and China have to do with the US?
>>17953996China was a valuable market for US trade, and many European countries had interests there as well. Not to mention Britain, who extensively operated out of many large Chinese cities and outright owned the island of Hong Kong.Basically, Japan was causing chaos in a region that the west was trying to exploit economically, and so they punished Japan with reciprocal economic sanctions.
>>17953363> Japan's war of conquest in Asia began well before Germany's war in EuropeJapan was liberating Asia, not waging a war of conquest. The wars in Europe and Asia were completely different.> they avoided attacking European holdings in the Pacific until 1940Japan only sent troops into French Indochina in order to gain a strategic advantage in the Second Sino-Japanese War. Japan had no intention of going to war against the Anglo-American powers.> Japan had formed an alliance with the Nazis giving them the confidence to aggressively expand through southeast AsiaJapan entered the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy as a defensive measure against US aggression. America had was putting economic sanctions onto Japan and militarily aiding the Chiang Kai Shek regime. Japan believed that by forming an alliance with Germany and Italy it would deter US aggression and strengthen their position in US-Japan negotiations. Basically, Japan joined the Tripartite Pact to try and avoid war with the US. And again, Japan only sent troops into French Indochina. That’s hardly “aggressively expanding through SEA.”> eventually attack the United States.The US forced the war with its economic sanctions, aiding of the Chiang Kai Shek regime and the Hull Note ultimatum which made war inevitable. Japan didn’t want war with America (they were already fighting China after all), war with America is something they were forced into. Also it’s worth noting that the US was attacking the Japanese military with the Flying Tigers months before the Pearl Harbor attack.
>>17953363> the US and other countries would still have embargoed Japan for its conquests in mainland AsiaThe US and it’s allies embargoed Japan because:1. FDR wanted to drag America into WW2 and the only way he could do this was through provoking Japan into war.2. The Anglo-American powers feared that the rise of Japan as a major Imperial power would bring an end to western colonial dominance in SEA.3. FDR was close to both the Soviets and KMT, both of whom were enemies of Japan.It had nothing to do with Japan’s war in China.
>>17953990The sanctions came before the war.
Yes, the Japanese would have struck and expanded into Manchuria no matter what.
>>17953334Had there not been a European war, Japan would have been slapped down by a small Bong-Frog expeditionary force in China, Japan was a massive paper tiger when it came to its ground armed forces.
>>17954006China didn't even exist as a country at the time
>>17953996The US had realigned with Britain after the Great Rapproachment in 1915 and the US wanted the British Empire to exist to farm payments from WWI over.The US ended up just taking over the British Empire anyway.The US had turned against Japan which was pushing out The Europeans, the British specifically, and was friendly to the US but did not owe the US a debt.The Japanese were also arresting and seizing the assets of the British East India Company which had lobbyists in the US advocating for sanctions against Japan.
>>17953349>The war never would have occurred if they just let Japan take over East Asia and genocide China with no consequences
>>17954866*surrenders Singapore*
>>17954999>The United States didn't exist in the early 1860s>England didn't exist in the 1640setc
Teddy felt it was inevitable.
>>17954059no they fame during the other war.
>>17955410*came
>>17954692The Manchuria incident didn’t cause the Pacific War.
>>17954866>Japan was a massive paper tiger when it came to its ground armed forces.They btfo’d the Americans, British and Dutch within the first few months of the war despite being outnumbered.
>>17954999There was the Republic of China, although it didn’t control all the territory we now consider to be “China.”
>>17955581>within the first few months of the warYes, because they were on the offensive, and Western Allies hadn't mustered defense in the region yet.
>>17955008>The US had turned against Japan which was pushing out The EuropeansHow was Japan pushing the Europeans out of Asia? This only happened during the war, not before it.
>>17955020>just let Japan take over East AsiaBeing at war with China isn’t “taking over East Asia.”>genocide ChinaCCP propaganda.
>>17955410what other war?
>>17955590I am not falling for your rageb8 today sir
>>17955585>Western Allies hadn't mustered defense in the region yet.Singapore was considered to be a fortress. The western colonial powers had controlled SEA decades. Saying that the Allied powers hadn’t mustered defence in the region is cope.
>>17955594Not rage bait, it’s the truth.
>>17955595>Saying that the Allied powers hadn’t mustered defence in the region is cope.Call it whatever you want but the fact of the matter is that we're talking about globe spanning empires thousands of miles away from their respective capitals in what Japan believed was their own backyard, no matter how you try and spin this, it's clear Japan was fighting an uphill battle since day one despite some early success catching colonial powers off guard.,
>>17955598>You: "Japan wasn't trying to build a trans-pacific empire and saw no strategic advantage in controlling costal China"see>>17955594
>>17954041>executes asian POW's>sells asian women into sex slavery>burns down asian cities>sends millions of asians to forced labour camps>sends food from other asian countries to Japan, causing famine in the other countriesWE WUZ LIBERATING DESU
>>17954999Fact.>>17955028False
>>17955931It's crazy how Japan independently developed fascism at the same time as it was being developed in Europe. It's as if chuds around the world all decided to chud out in the same way.
>>17956904Japan was doing old fashioned eastern Imperialism, unlike the krauts who were defying hundreds of years of civilized western conduct, Japan and their enemies in Asia saw it as the norm and all did the same to the Jap settlers and POW's the first chance they got. Even Soviet soldiers hungry for blood blushed at what the Chinese were doing in Manchuria to collaborators and settlers.
>>17955601He's gonna seethe at what every non-sneak offensive looked like for Japan, even the bongs began thrashing them with Indian troops when they started to actually arm them
>>17955605> >You: "Japan wasn't trying to build a trans-pacific empire and saw no strategic advantage in controlling costal China"When did I say this?
>>17956904Imperialist Japan was NEVER Fascist. Fascism requires actually leveraging industry to consolidate power to some kind of ideological ideal. The Nazis were Fascist, the Italians were Fascist (although their respective interpretation of fascism differ considerably), but Japan was not fascist, they were simply an Imperialist Monarchy that was attempting to emulate 19th Century Europe but they were a century too late.
>>17955931> >executes asian POW'sOnly those found guilty by a tribunal of being criminals, or enemies disguised as civilians who weren’t protected by international conventions.> >sells asian women into sex slaveryComfort women were paid prostitutes, not sex slaves. There are documents that prove this.> >burns down asian citiesSuch as? Be more specific.> >sends millions of asians to forced labour campsOnly POW’s.> >sends food from other asian countries to Japan, causing famine in the other countriesA result of the Allies starving Japan by deliberately targeting non-military ships (which is a war crime).> WE WUZ LIBERATING DESUYes, SEA countries owe their freedom today to Japan.
>>17956904Japan was never Fascist.
>>17956924Japan was the most moral country during the war.
>>17956957> The Nazis were FascistThe Nazis were Socialists (National Socialist German Workers Party) and were closer to Communism than Fascism (leftists will try and deny this but it’s true).
>>17953334Yes. Protestant Extremists are very present on all levels of government and they were pissed that the Japanese were killing those chinks before Jesus could claim their immortal souls.
>>17953334No
>>17953341>Yes , japan invaded china already in 1937And the West did nothing and intended to do nothing aside from token support to KMT. Everyone knew Japan would get bogged down and fail. What precipitated the Pacific War was Japan's seizure of Indochina and attacks on Western colonies.
>>17955592Chinese posters on /his/ shill the idea that the US imposed sanctions on Japan because of the China war.
>>17956989The west was leveeing sanctions immediately, crippling the jap war effort to the point it couldnt conduct any more offensives against the Chinese, that's nothing?lmao if the Japs were confident in being able to win, they wouldnt have gambled on attacking the west, but they knew at the time that if they didn't, the Chinese would eventually win on their own
>>17956978>The Nazis were Socialists (National Socialist German Workers Party) Correct, and they were also Fascist. You just don't understand what fascism actually is>and were closer to Communism than Fascism Well you're wrong for multiple reasons, but the whole "leveraging industry" thing is partially why fascism and communism superficially resemble eachother, but for Fascists it's more like "Real Monarchy hasn't been tried" while for Communists it was more like "Real Liberalism hasn't been tried"
>>17956997>but for Fascists it's more like "Real Monarchy hasn't been tried" while for Communists it was more like "Real Liberalism hasn't been tried"Damn you're retarded, both are, "Real Socialism hasn't been tried", and that's the most apt way to put their respective end goals.
>>17956996>The west was leveeing sanctions immediately,There were no sanctions until 1940, when the US placed a scrap metals embargo in response to Japan signing the Tripartite Pact and the oil embargo in 1941 in response to Japan taking Indochina.
>>17957003>The west
>>17954055>>17954041>>17956992>>17956996The US sanctioned Japan after Japan invaded French Indochina in 1940 retards.The US believed Japan's invasion of French Indochina meant Japan activated its plan to conquer all of SEA including the US held PhilippinesJapan was also defeated by China at Kunlun pass in 1940 when it tried to cut off China's border with French Indochina from the Chinese sideSo they invaded the French side. The US is the one that supported Japan taking over Taiwan and Korea.US army officers in the Hokkaido colonisation office helped Japan attacked Paiwan Aboriginals in Taiwan in 1874 and scouted land for Japanese settlementsUS signed the Taft Katsuura agreement with Japan agreeing with Japan to take over Korea as a protectorate in 1905 while Japan would recognise US control in the PhilippinesAmerican Jews like Jacob Schiff gave emergency loans to Japan against Russia in 1904-1905
>>17957000Hardly. Hitler had the Socialist faction of the Nazi Party killed off in the Long Knives Massacre, leaving just the Nationalist faction, and the whole "Socialist" part of the Nazi Party just became an orphaned term by the mid 1930s
>>17957011You don't understand Fascism and it shows.
>>17957013>You: "Communists and Fascists are le same actually"Everyone laugh at this retard
>>17957019No one said that, if they were they wouldn't have different names now would they? lol But they are both Socialist and left wing
>>17956997>Correct, and they were also Fascist. You just don't understand what fascism actually isFascism and Socialism are two different ideologies. The Nazis were Socialist, not Fascist.>Well you're wrong for multiple reasonsI’m not. Nazi Germany was more like Stalin’s USSR than Fascist Italy.
>>17957009>The US sanctioned Japan after Japan invaded French Indochina in 1940Which was an unnecessary escalation that ultimately lead to war.>The US believed Japan's invasion of French Indochina meant Japan activated its plan to conquer all of SEA including the US held PhilippinesJapan didn’t plan on conquering SEA. The US imposed economic sanctions onto Japan because FDR wanted to provoke Japan into war (the stationing of Japanese troops into French Indochina was used as an excuse).>The US is the one that supported Japan taking over Taiwan and Korea.That happened multiple decades before WW2 (Taiwan became Japanese in 1895 and Korea in 1910). FDR wasn’t even president of the US yet. FDR provoked Japan into war so America would have an excuse to enter WW2. Mentioning Taiwan and Korea is irrelevant.>US army officers in the Hokkaido colonisation office helped Japan attacked Paiwan Aboriginals in Taiwan in 1874 and scouted land for Japanese settlementsAlso completely irrelevant to the Pacific conflict.>US signed the Taft Katsuura agreement with Japan agreeing with Japan to take over Korea as a protectorate in 1905 while Japan would recognise US control in the Philippines>American Jews like Jacob Schiff gave emergency loans to Japan against Russia in 1904-1905All of these things are irrelevant to WW2.
>>17957961This narrative isn't going to land dude just stop
>>17957963>Which was an unnecessary escalation that ultimately lead to war.America wanted to make it loud and clear that they would not tolerate Japan taking over the European colonies. Japan chose to ignore the warning. >Japan didn’t plan on conquering SEAIt sure looked like they did. Remember they first took over northern Indochina (which could somewhat be justified relating to the war with China) and got a metals embargo. They then chose to go and take over southern Indochina as well (which could not be justified in any way whatsoever) and only then did they get the crippling oil embargo. America could have been more diplomatic probably but Japan made its bed with its hostile action.
>>17958031>Talking about indochina as if it was split and not all under (german puppet) french controlAre you retarded?If they conquered Indochina they wouldn't suddenly stop and wait a year to conquer the rest.Faggots like you need to stop talking here.
>>17958054I literally don't even understand what you're saying. But stay angry.
>>17953334Yes, Japanese expansion to either western colonies in SEA or into Siberia was inevitable the moment they stalemated and refused to give up.
>>17957971Not an argument.
>>17958031> America wanted to make it loud and clear that they would not tolerate Japan taking over the European colonies.Japan had no intention of taking over the European colonies prior to US aggression. It was the aggressive policies of the FDR administration towards Japan that caused the war in SEA and the Pacific.> It sure looked like they did. Remember they first took over northern Indochina (which could somewhat be justified relating to the war with China) and got a metals embargo. > They then chose to go and take over southern Indochina as well (which could not be justified in any way whatsoever) and only then did they get the crippling oil embargo. The stationing of Japanese troops in French Indochina was necessary because of the China war.> America could have been more diplomatic probably but Japan made its bed with its hostile action.What hostile actions did Japan make against the US? The hostile actions came from the American side. It was the US that enforced embargoes against Japan and provided military aid to the KMT (which included sending American pilots to China to fight the Japanese despite America not yet being at war with Japan). Furthermore, during US-Japan negotiations, the US refused to negotiate in good faith and instead demanded that Japan withdraw from the entirety of Indochina, China and Manchukuo (something that was impossible for the Japanese to accept). The US, specifically the FDR administration, caused the Pacific War with it’s blatant and unnecessary aggression.
>>17954006Oh so confronting Japan can be excused by the fact that thr Japanese were creating chaos, but God forbid one makes that argument on Germany.
>>17959316>The stationing of Japanese troops in French Indochina was necessary because of the China war.That was northern Indochina in 1940.They had no excuse to occupy southern Indochina in 1941. That was blatant expansionism. You can't keep taking over territories and then start crying that you're being bullied when someone opposes you.
>>17959316>was the US that enforced embargoes against Japan and provided military aid to the KMT (which included sending American pilots to China to fight the Japanese despite America not yet being at war with Japan).None of this happened before Japan invaded French IndochinaJapan also attacked US troops in the USS Panay and Standard oil tankers on 12 December 1937 near Nanjing on the Yangtze river and shot down US pilot Robert McCawley Short over Suzhou on 22 February 1932.This is why Curtiss test pilot Bob Fausel shot down a Japanese Fiat BR.20 on 4 April 1939 over Chongqing, due to previous Japanese provocations. Aren't you the guys crying over USS liberty all the time? Japan did the same to USS Panay and Robert McCawley Short.
>>17959394> You can't keep taking over territories and then start crying that you're being bullied when someone opposes you.French Indochina wasn’t an American territory. Starting a war over whether or not Japanese troops are in French Indochina is ridiculous. The US created the conditions that caused the war. Additionally, it’s worth remembering that France had been defeated by Germany when Japan sent troops into Indochina. Japan was only able to send in troops because there wouldn’t be a war with France. The Japanese knew attacking a British or American colony would mean war, that’s why they tried to negotiate an end to America’s embargoes/economic sanctions.
>>17959412> None of this happened before Japan invaded French IndochinaI’m aware. What’s your point? America and Japan weren’t at war, therefore it was an act of American aggression for the FDR administration to send the Flying Tigers to China.> Japan also attacked US troops in the USS Panay and Standard oil tankers on 12 December 1937 near NanjingThat was an accident that Japan apologised for.> shot down US pilot Robert McCawley Short over Suzhou on 22 February 1932.I’m not familiar with that incident. However, relations between Japan and the US were good in 1932, so I highly doubt it was deliberate aggression. Anyways, both the incidents you mentioned are completely different to the Flying Tigers. The Flying Tigers were ordered by Washington to shoot down Japanese military aircraft. They weren’t isolated incidents or accidents, they were part of a deliberate US government mission to kill Japanese military servicemen (despite the US and Japan not yet being at war).
>>17959967So you admit them taking all of Indochina was a blatant land grab?
>>17960021It was done to gain a strategic advantage in the Second Sino-Japanese War and was only possible because France had been defeated by Germany, therefore the French were unable to defend their colony. Sure, you can interpret it as a land grab. Was it worth the US forcing Japan into all out war via economic blockade? I don’t think so.
>>17959967>The US created the conditions that caused the war.No, America would not tolerate Japan taking over all the European colonies in Asia and set out to stop it by warning Japan and then imposing embargoes. Japan ignored both the warnings and the embargo of 1940. America made it completely clear that taking any more colonies not be acceptable and then Japan went and still took more of Indochina and acted shocked when they got new embargo. >>17960514>It was done to gain a strategic advantage in the Second Sino-Japanese WarWhat advantage did occupying southern Indochina in 1941 give them against China? You are being completely dishonest with your arguments.
>>17960514>and was only possible because France had been defeated by Germany, therefore the French were unable to defend their colonyBy your reasoning Japan would've been justified to take over Indonesia as well because the Dutch wouldn't be able to protect it either.
>>17960514>Hey Japan DO NOT DO X or we will stop selling you oil>Japan does X>HEY WHY YOU STOP SELLING OIL WE WAR YOU NOWBombing American ships is an escalation of war. Demanding to be sold goods and getting told no is not an escalation. Japan didn't have the right to demand to buy forign goods. We reserve the right to refuse service. Never heard of that before?
>>17960514>the French were unable to defend their colonyIf two men are fighting and one knocks the other guy out and a third man runs up and steals the unconscious man's wallet. That is blatant theft you dullard.
>>17961831>right to refuse serviceInternational relations isn't your little convenience store. America had control of most of the world's oil supply so cutting Japan off was effectively waging economic warfare (they were right to do it but it was an escalation).
Japan fucked up by not seizing Hawaii and using it to control the Pacific.They still would have lost the war in the end but it was a critically missed opportunity.
>>17962722
>>17960976>America would not tolerate Japan taking over all the European colonies in AsiaJapan had no intention of taking over all the European colonies in Asia, that’s why they tried to negotiate and find a peaceful solution to the American embargo/economic sanctions.>America made it completely clear that taking any more colonies not be acceptable and then Japan went and still took more of IndochinaJapan had already sent troops into Indochina. The Japanese having troops in Indochina wasn’t a threat to western colonies in SEA.>What advantage did occupying southern Indochina in 1941 give them against China?It was to cut off the KMT’s supply lines.>You are being completely dishonest with your arguments.You’re the dishonest one by suggesting that Japan wanted to take over all the European colonies in Asia. Japan only made the decision to go to war in SEA because the American embargo had starved them of necessary resources.
>>17960991>By your reasoning Japan would've been justified to take over Indonesia as well because the Dutch wouldn't be able to protect it either.Yes. Japan liberated Indonesia from Dutch colonial rule.
>>17961831>We reserve the right to refuse service.Cutting off the necessary resources a country relies on, aiding the enemies of a nation and issuing an ultimatum are all acts of war. If America was in the position Japan was in they too would’ve gone to war.
>>17961835>steals the unconscious man's wallet.Indochina didn’t belong to the French, it was under French occupation.
>>17962627>they were right to do itWhy? Japan hadn’t done anything aggressive to the US and had no intention of going to war with the US.
>>17962769>The Japanese having troops in Indochina wasn’t a threat to western colonies in SEA.They absolutely were. >It was to cut off the KMT’s supply lines.Okay, now you are just being stupid. The cut off the KMT supply line in 1940 in the north. What happened? THEY GOT A WARNING WITH A METALS EMBARGO.What do they do?A year later they occupy the whole colony, ignoring the warning and embargo.What happens?THEY GET A HARDER EMBARGO. You are either an idiot or you just pretending to be by pretending like this didn't happen. Japan was completely at fault for the escalation and getting the oil embargo. >Japan had no intention of taking over all the European colonies in AsiaIt sure looked like they did. They had 0 justification to take over southern Indochina. Indonesia was going to be their next step if no one stopped them.
>>17962786>Japan hadn’t done anything aggressive to the USThey cut off all American economic interest in China. They downed American planes and sunk their ships. America tolerated it all and didn't escalate, even kept fueling the Japanese war machine with their oil sales. Once Japan started taking over European colonies it was a step too far. They were warned and sanctioned, they ignored the warnings and embargoes. >had no intention of going to war with the US.Yeah sure, their ideal scenario would've been to occupy Indochina, Malaysia and Indonesia without a fight, but America was not going to allow that to happen due to their geopolitical interests.
>>17962849> They absolutely were. How so?> Japan was completely at fault for the escalation and getting the oil embargo. No the US was at fault for enforcing an embargo which caused a completely unnecessary war.> Indonesia was going to be their next step if no one stopped them.Unfounded speculation.
>>17962866> They cut off all American economic interest in China. That was a result of the war itself (which China started).> They downed American planes and sunk their shipsJapan apologised for the USS Panay Incident which was an accident. Btw it was America that was shooting down Japanese planes (Flying Tigers).> Once Japan started taking over European colonies it was a step too far.Japan only sent troops into French Indochina to gain a strategic advantage in the China War. They had no intention of taking over other western colonies.> their ideal scenario would've been to occupy Indochina, Malaysia and Indonesia without a fightTheir ideal scenario was avoided a war, that’s why Japan tried to negotiate an end to the embargo. However the US refused to negotiate in good faith and instead issued the Hull Note ultimatum which caused the war.
>>17963067Japan sent troops into French Indochina after Japan lost both battles in Kunlun pass and West Suiyuan when trying to cut China's land borders off from the Chinese side. Japan tried to cut off the French Indochina border at Kunlun pass and Soviet border by trying to take Ningxia-Gansu-Qinghai in the 1940 West Suiyuan battle.Japan failed at both.Britain already agreed with Japan's request to completely shut down the British Burma and British India borders in early 1940The retarded Japanese managed to lose both campaigns to cut China's French and Soviet borders, WITH Britain helping Japan.
>>17962722>>17962736
>>17963469Modern weebs always graze over the fact that the japs attacked the west because they were unable to win in China and had little to offer in trade for the vital materials they needed.
>>17957009Retarded chinkspammer. I already humiliated you hundreds of times yesterday in the other thread.The US and every other Western power like Nazi Germany and the USSR were supporting the worthless Han slaves against Japan but the worthless Han still lost.The US sanctioned Japan before 1940.It was also the American journalists who recorded photographs of the Japanese raping and genociding Han Chinese slaves. Pictures and testimony from the Japanese rape of millions of Han Chinese in Nanking literally swayed Western opinion against Japan.Japan was still raping China in 1945 even though 95% of their military was elsewhere.
>>17962779>Cutting off the necessary resources a country relies on, aiding the enemies of a nation and issuing an ultimatum are all acts of war.Absolutely not true. Japan could have traded other nations for oil, why do they NEED oil from America? Also why specifically did they need all that oil? Was it to help domestic production or to fuel their out of control war machine?>aiding an enemyIt isn’t. If that were true why is Russia at war with Ukraine and not all of NATO?>issuing an ultimatumShow me where this is an act of war in any international set of laws
>>17962779>Cutting off the necessary resources a country relies onThere is no inherent right to trade. And in the event, Japan would've faced a balance of payments crisis sooner or later, and so been unable to pay for imports anyway (turns out importing raw materials to use in war is expensive and unsustainable, see also the Germans and their Exportschlacht) >aiding the enemies of a nationPerfectly allowable. See also the USSR supplying the KMT and Japan conspicuously not declaring war on them. Or Japan allowing the Pacific lend-lease routes to proceed unmolested. >issuing an ultimatum If it's not immediately threatening military action, that also is not a belligerent act.
>>17962722They had neither the available forces, nor the logistics, nor the sustained air support to attempt a Hawaiian invasion.
>>17963529>even though 95% of their military was elsewhere.Japan was entirely in comtrol of Korea, Vietnam and the main islands of Indonesia (Java, Sumatra) nass raping Vietnamese women and Indonesian Muslim women. They also mass raped Koreans in the Imjin war.Japan was defeated in every battle in China in 1945 (Battle of West Hunan, Battle of West Henan, Second Guangxi campaign) and losing occupied land (east Guangxi, Fuzhou, Wenzhou)Japan never occupied entire provinces of China (Sichuan, Shaanxi, Ningxia, Gansu, Qinghai.)> US and every other Western power like Nazi Germany and the USSR were supporting theI humiliated you for lying.The UK, Netherlands and US sold Japan most of its iron and oil before 1940>Pictures and testimony from the Japanese rape Nanjing had 100,000 Semu and Hui Muslims in 1937700,000 Han left Nanjing to Sichuan before December The most famous picture of rape from Nanjing is of the Hui Muslim Ha family raped and killed by the Japanese.> US and every other Western power like Nazi Germany and the USSRNone of these gave aid to China, all the weapons were bought with money and tung oil and tungsten
>>17963529>>17964498Muslims and Americans writing about Japanese rape and massacre of Muslims in Nanjing.http://materiaislamica.com/index.php?title=The_Unknown_Muslim_Victims_of_Japanese_Unit_731_in_WWII_(1932%E2%80%941945)https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Horrible_death,_Nanking_Massacre.jpgJohn Magee took a photo of the corpses of a Muslim family in Nanjing and described it.>On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.Nanjing had the biggest Muslim quarter in eastern China in 1937.
>>17964509Muslims in Nanjing raped by Japanesehttps://www.19371213.com.cn/en/venerating/testimonies/201811/t20181107_2231834.htmlhttps://isamveri.org/pdfdrg/D01525/2010_29/2010_29_LEIW.pdf>Muslim population Nanjing:The amount of Muslims in China was higher before the Japanese invasion.https://www.muslim2china.com/china-mosques/list-Nanjing-1.html>There was an estimated population of 100,000 Muslims in Nanjing during the Yuan Dynasty.https://www.topchinatravel.com/china-muslim/muslim-in-jiangsu.htm>During the Yuan Dynasty, a large number of Hui people moved in Jiangsu; and in Ming Dynasty, the population of Hui people had nearly reached 100000 in Nanjing. In Modern Nanjing, Hui people's business and culture were prosperous and flourishing. According to the sixth census statistics in 2010, Jiangsu's Hui population was about 130757, which was distributed in the various cities and counties, mainly concentrated in Nanjing City and Yangzhou City.It grew during the Ming and Qing dynasties. The Japanese massacred and raped and reduced their population to what it is today.By the way Nanjing had over 1 million people in November 1937The vast majority of Han in Nanjing, over 700,000, fled west to Sichuan in early DecemberThe reason why the highwst estimate of the death toll is 300,000 is because that's how many people were left behind , not because people counted 300,000 bodies.100,000 Hui is 10% of 1 million.
>>17963529>>17964514https://www.oregonhistoryproject.org/articles/historical-records/chinese-americans-picket-scrap-metal-to-japan/>In 1939 approximately 2,000,000 tons of scrap metal were exported from the United States to Japan.https://bruceramsey.net/index.php/the-fight-over-scrap-steel-to-japan-1998/https://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/862347615068803072May 8, 1937: Japan says 600,000 out of 1 million tons scrap iron used this year will go to making weaponshttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/571216213696745472Feb 27, 1935: Japanese delegation in Australia to secure access to iron ore #OTDhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/645207271178391552Sep 19, 1935: US exports of scrap iron and steel to Japan up 800 percent compared with start of decadehttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/526683042090201090Oct 27, 1934: UK trade mission leaves Manchukuo with orders of 40 million dollars’ worth of railway equipment, steelhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/571026409352781825Feb 26, 1935: US reports 63 percent of exported scrap steel in 1934 went to Japan #OTDhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/1024419116873121793June 11, 1938: Dutch Prime Minister Hendrikus Colijn says Netherlands is not contemplating halting the supply of oil, tin and other raw materials to Japan
>>17963529>>17964519https://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/1236013072076111875March 6, 1940: Japan, desperate for new energy sources to fuel its war in China, secures Romanian oil in trade agreement with East European countryhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/1173093135926353920Sep 15, 1939: American oil companies unveil contracts to deliver three million barrels of petroleum to Japanese Navyhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/1240686490029412353March 17, 1940: Mexico sends trade mission to Japan to discuss sale of oil, potentially alleviating Japan's desperate need for energy to continue war in Chinahttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/1213724022061617152Jan 5, 1940: Sino-Japanese battle of Kunlun Pass in southern China ends with Chinese victoryhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/984845330624720897April 9, 1938: Major boost in morale among Chinese forces after victory over Japan at Taierzhuanghttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/1065668001645645826Oct 10, 1938: Battle of Wanjialing south of the Yangtze ends in local Chinese victoryhttps://twitter.com/asiainww2/status/972230437488783362March 9, 1938: Japanese Army reported to be suffering heavy casualties in northwest Chinese province of Suiyuan
>>17963529>>17964522Chinese men from Fujian were grooming and importing Japanese women from Japan to Fujian, China in the 1920s, just a few years before Japan attacked China and set up Manchukuo.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17164434/#q17164434>>17164434Japan was a sex tourism destination for Chinese men for the past millenia70,000 Japanese girls were prostituted to allied soldiers in the recreation and amusement association after 1945.Over 100,000 Japanese girls were prostituted as karayuki-san to Han Chinese men and western men in the Meiji and Taisho periods to raise money to industrialize Japan and spy in other countries.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/14238771/#q14241373And before that tons of Japanese girls were given to foreign Han Chinese merchants and Portuguese men and Dutch men during Sengoku Jidai and Tokugawa (Edo) as well.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/12244603/#q12249572Japanese Karayuki-san prostitutes in French Indochina refused Annamese (Vietnamese) men as clients and only slept with French soldiers and Han Chinese men.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#q9508255https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#q9525108https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/14238771/#q14241373Japanese teenage girls whose families were killed in the firebombings and roasted alive and atomic bombing in Hiroshoma were forced into prostitution in the Recreation and Amusement association.Over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children were roasted to death in one day in Tokyo during the firebombings in Operation MeetinghouseHirohito the cuck watched his capital and palace burn down and his women, both Japanese commoners and his own relatives get fucked by foreign men.America then paid Japanese to experiment on Japanese children.
>>17963529>>17964526Every Chinese student, merchant and exile in Meiji Japan had Japanese concubines, like Sun Yatsen, Cong Liangbi, Dai JitaoJapanese were mass raped by Jurchens (Manchus) in the Toi pirate raids of 1019Jurchens (Manchus) gang raped Jaanese girls while the Japanese navy was powerless to intervene.China wrecked and destroyed Japan in every single naval battle before the Meiji restoration.Japanese outnumbered Chinese at the battle of baekgang and Noryang point. China curbstomped Japan in both battles.Japanese outnumbered Portuguese at the battle of Fukuda Bay. The Portuguese stomped on the Japanese and Portugiese took Japanese slave girls.China defeated the same Portuguese at the battle of Tamão (Tunmen) in 1521 and battle of Veniaga (Shancaowan) in 1522.Japan was a sex tourism destination for Chinese men for centuries. Hideyoshi and the Tokugawa shogunate provided Chinese merchants with Japanese girls.Japan sold over 100,000 Japanese teenage girls as prostitutes to Chinese coolies and Western colonies in the Meiji restoration to modernise their military.Japan's first naval victory against China was with the British built Meiji fleet paid for by Japanese prostitutes.Japan used human wave attacks against outnumbered Russians at Port Arthur and Nanshan and were massacred by Russian machine guns.Japan begged Jews like Jacob Schiff to find them against Russia.Japan's entire technological advantage against China in World War II was based on technology given to them by Britain and US (sempill mission) in exchange for Japanese prostitutes.Japan lost every war with China before Meiji restoration.Japanese admitted they compensated for numbers in World war II against China by western technology like mustard gas and tanks (gives to the by Britain) and they would have been curbstomped without western technology>>17164434
>>17963529>>17964527Japanese tradition of pimping Japanese women to Han Chinese students and political exiles like Sun Yat-sen who pumped and dumped them and left the bastard children behind in Japan (aka great great grandparents of Japanese anons)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Wei-kuo#Early_lifeBorn in Tokyo when Chiang Kai-shek and the KMT were exiled to Japan by the Beiyang Government, Chiang Wei-kuo was the biological son of Tai Chi-tao and a Japanese woman, Shigematsu Kaneko (重松金子).[1][2][3][4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haru_AsadaHaru Asada (浅田春, Haru Asada, 1882 - 1902) was the Japanese concubine of Sun Yat-sen, the founder of the Republic of China.[1]Asada was born in Shizuoka Prefecture, Japan, and spoke both fluent Chinese and English. She encountered Sun when she worked as a maid in Sun's house in Yokohama. She died in 1902, and Sun married Kaoru Otsuki in 1904.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaoru_OtsukiKaoru Otsuki (大月薰, Ōtsuki Kaoru, August 6, 1888 – December 21, 1970), born in Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture, Japan, was the second wife of Sun Yat-sen, founder of the Republic of China.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Baili#Personal_lifeJiang married twice. His first wife was Zha Pinzhen (查品珍). His second wife was Satô Yato (佐藤屋登), a nurse he met in Japan. He had five children: Jiang Zhao (蔣昭), Jiang Yong (蔣雍), Jiang Ying, Jiang Hua (蔣華) and Jiang He (蔣和). His third daughter, Jiang Ying, became a musician and married the scientist Qian Xuesen. Jiang was also distantly related to the wuxia novelist Louis Cha through his first wife Zha Pinzhen, who was a distant aunt of Cha.
>>17963529>>17964530Japan was a sex tourist destination for Chinese exiles and students during the Meiji era.Chinese merchants in Yokohama regularly bought and rented Japanese girls.Chinese merchants in Meiji Japan used Japanese teenage girls as concubines and maids and pumped and dumped them.Me ruv u rong time!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karayuki-san,_the_Making_of_a_Prostitutehttps://napost.com/2018/karayuki-san-in-the-west/https://meijiat150.arts.ubc.ca/episode-61-dr-kazuhiro-oharazeki-setsunan/Kazuhiro Oharazeki: Thank you for having me.TG: You’ve published this book Japanese Prostitutes in the North American West: 1887-1920. And so, I’ve talked with other people about Japanese migration to North America, but I was hoping that you and I could talk more about what are the migrants (who come from Japan to North America) doing when they come over here? And what is the life like for the Japanese immigrants? So, could you talk about who are these people who are coming over from Japan? Where do they come from in Japan, and how many people are we talking about?And at some point, they met procurers, who talked about nice things of America: job opportunities or a chance to have an American education or marry rich landowners in California, who turned out to be peasants or hired hands who forced them into prostitution. I also found that not all women were unaware of what kinds of work they would do in their destinations. Some women had already sold sexual services to local foreigners in Yokohama working as servants in the houses of Chinese merchants. Others worked in brothels and dance halls, catering to foreign sailors and merchants. And in that process, they became familiarized with foreigners and Western cultures, which influenced their decision to follow masters or procurers to the American West.
>>17963529
>>17963694The Japanese had more than enough strength to capture and hold Hawaii, but they foolishly used it for the Philippines, which would have died on the vine without Hawaii.
>>17965115>which would have died on the vine without Hawaii???
>>17957072You're talking about Strassers brand of National Socialism dumb ass and that extreme left part of the party was purged. Hitlerian National Socialism is not left wing.
>>17965188it 100% is
>>17965115MacArthur literally ordered US forces not to strike against Japan in Taiwan AFTER he was already aware of Pearl Harbour.There was enough time between Japan's attack on Pearl Harbour and Japan's invasion of the Philippines for US bombers to strike the Japanese landing force assembling in Taiwan.MacArthur claimed that the US should let Japan strike first in the Philippines and Pearl Harbour wasn't enough legal justification to make the first move.MacArthu then ordered US forces to retreat and surrender and then fled.
>>17963689> There is no inherent right to trade.You’re missing the point. Cutting off the resources a nation needs to survive is economic warfare and an act of war. The US knew this and knew it would force Japan into a conflict.> USSR supplying the KMT and Japan conspicuously not declaring war on themThe USSR didn’t force Japan into a position where they had to go to war.> If it's not immediately threatening military action, that also is not a belligerent act.How is ending negotiations by issuing an ultimatum that made war inevitable not a belligerent act?
>>17963558> why do they NEED oil from America? Back then the majority of Japan’s oil supply came from America.> why is Russia at war with Ukraine and not all of NATO?MAD.> Show me where this is an act of war in any international set of lawsIt made war inevitable, therefore it was an act of war.
>>17963469> WITH Britain helping JapanBritain was one of the countries aiding China during the war.
>>17963511> japs attacked the west because they were unable to win in ChinaJapan was forced into war against the Anglo-American powers because FDR cut off the resources Japan needed and refused to negotiate with the Japanese in good faith.
>>17965598Britain directly cut off the Burma road to China in early 1940 to help Japan, while Japan tried to several China's land borders with the Soviets at the battle of West Suiyuan and Wuyuan and with France at the battle of Kunlun pass.Japan failed, with Britain helping them.Britain also sold tons of oil and rubber to Japan and helped build Japan's navy in the Meiji restoration and air corps in the Sempill mission
>>17965590>Cutting off the resources a nation needs to survive is economic warfare and an act of war.If it's economic warfare, then it's not actually an act of war, hence the "economic". One could also cite naval blockades that impact the trade of neutrals with some country, and which are well-established and legitimate practices. For example, before World War I, the US did more trade with Germany than with France. British blockade ended that, and nothing resulted. And again, say the US does nothing, and a few years later Japan can't afford imports anyway. Then what? It's an act of war if they don't simply gift Japan whatever it wants? >The USSR didn’t force Japan into a position where they had to go to war.Japan put itself in that position by allowing its army to shanghai it into an unwinnable attritional conflict in China. > issuing an ultimatum that made war inevitable not a belligerent act?Because the ultimatum was not made with the use of military force as the alternative to compliance. Look at Austria-Hungary's ultimatum to Serbia, or Hitler's "negotiations" with Czechoslovakia to see cases where ultimatums are actually belligerent.
>>17965156The Philippines economy was almost wholly agricultural, they didn't manufacture anything of note and sure as hell couldn't keep the American forces stationed there supplied, every bullet, boot and drop of gasoline came from the U.S. via Hawaii.Not that the American forces stationed there were any kinda threat to Japan, the handful of B-17s MacArthur had would have done little damage and all been shot down had they tried and the U.S. Navy was all in Hawaii.If the Japanese had captured Hawaii, the Philippines pretty much just... sits there and can be gobbled up later. Meanwhile, Japanese air and naval forces operating out of Hawaii can control the Pacific and forces the U.S. to carry out a brutal campaign of reconquest before they can help Australia, China, the Brits in India, etc.>>17965303>MacArthurCouldn't do jack shit, his army was essentially a colonial police force.
>>17962736if nothing was going on in Europe the UK would have definitely pushed Japan's shit in, right? it's not like they'd just sit by while Japan encroached on Singapore, India, and Australia
>>17965951>if nothing was going on in Europe the UK would have definitely pushed Japan's shit in, right?Eventually, as they have the whole British empire to draw on.
>>17965951The British thought they could handle one, maybe two of of three major axis powers without it coming at a great cost, without an European theater, Britian can shift over more resources. As can countries like France and the Netherlands.
>>17953996Japan wanted the philippines, which were owned by the usa
>>17966195The US was preparing to give the Philippines their independence too, but Japan actually forced them to hold it off until the war was over. Although there was likely nothing Japan could've done to wait it out anyways, since US intelligence basically knew that the Philippines was a potential target as soon as Japan started meddling in China
>>17957009>>17957963Japan sent settlers to Mindanao after Taft Katsuura to help colonise the island from the native Moro Muslims in the 1920sMoro Muslims and Lumads killed the Japanese settlers and massacred all the Japanese in 1945 since the Japanese settlers were fifth columnists and helped Japan invade.Japanese samurai participated in the Dutch genocide of native Muslim Indonesians in the Banda islandsJapan is responding for France colonising North Vietnam since Japan threatened war with China over the Gapsin coup in Korea in 1884-1895 after China defeated the French landing force on Taiwan in Tamsui and Keelung and at Zhennan pass (Bang Bo) in the second retreat from Lang Son.
