What is Hellenic cannot necessarily be Indo-European, let me explain. Hellenic identity was formed in the Iron Age. Anything before that was not Hellenic. The Mycenaeans, for example, did not identify themselves as "Hellenic," and the same goes for the "Proto-Greeks." The Mycenaean civilization itself was pre-Indo-European, as were the Hellenes, who, according to records, identified themselves as indigenous to the land. The Mycenaeans had 15% steppe ancestry. >logkasUnfortunately for everyone, there is no archaeological evidence that these were actually "Proto-Greeks" or that they even spoke Greek. They were just poor, starving women left in a cave like animals, because we don't know anything about themIf Logkas is the most Indo-European Greece has ever had, then its sad for Indo-Europeans in Greece
>>17960188Wait, so you're telling me that barbaric cave people from the lower world somehow magically made the upper Pelasgians speak an Indo-European language, worship Indo-European gods, hold various Indo-European cultural precepts, such as a specific poetry with a structure shared by other branches, and even a ritualistic band of young men? To name a few.Geez, OP, what happened in Greece then?And yes, even Mycenaeans and their low steppe, can be modeled as being 35%+ logkas+ Anatolian, so its looks like even "cave people" contributed to the formation of Mycenaeans, and consequently, hellenics
Mycenaeans were J2 and 80% Minoan.Not to mention most Greek gods were Pelasgian or Semitic.
>>17960238>Not to mention most Greek gods were Pelasgian or SemiticNot true, majority of Greek gods were Indo-European, sameflag
>>17960188The pre-Proto-Greek invader profile: Bulgaria Yamnaya.Koíranos wolf warriors with significant PIE admixture. They subjugated the Pelasgians and ruled over the changed traditions of such significance that the preserved traditions were Indo-European, not Pelasgian, these *tewtéhintroducing not only a new language but a pentaton that would remain venerated for a long time, one of them being the important and referenced *Dzéus, (related to Mycenaean) Greek 𐀇𐀺 di-wo /diwos and the classical greek, of course the important *Posei-dawōn, ultimately an Indo-European god being related to horses, at first, a literal horse god, with the horse being very important to the first Indo-Europeans in the Pontic steppe, and Poseidon only gained characteristics more related to the sea as the proto-Greeks of Thessaly, well spread in the Mycenaean world.
>>17960267and in the sense of vocabulary retention, the impressive Greek retained a very significant amount, consistent with their very Indo-European culture
>>17960238>>17960188We have Mycenaeans with r1b and 25% steppe
>>17960267>fanfic based on nothing Consider that the illiterate people who resemble logkas were overthrown by the wealthy ANF BVLLs and their gypsy caravans and literally destroyed "stone weapons" (four times), probably also by the ANF BVLLs who, with their armies, organizations, and better equipment, stopped the piled stones with their hands.Imagine the fear and pain of the little men smelling of goat dung when they reached the walled cities and saw their armor shining under the glorious southern sun, receiving arrows from the gates.The steppe shaman ordered everyone to flee and, in desperation, ordered them to throw down their stone weapons, thinking the ANF would be stopped, only to see the ANF men hitting the stone weapon waste with their Balkan bronze shields and every steppe man being killed, the same with the women, who had to take shelter in literal caves>>17960188in fear of the agricultural men. Like untamable beasts, the European ANF/EEF EXPELLED the Indo-European plague from the Aegean and other parts of the Mediterranean and made them lose.Results? 15% steppe
>>17960188>>17960331new samples strongly point to 2200 BC, that is at the end of the korakou culture, and these greek samples from Himera have around 18% steppe and in comparison with Greece_LBA (the Mycenaean average with circa 10% steppe) so yeah, its not impossible that one day, we can find Mycenaeans with 30% steppe
>>17960264You're lying. Ares, Athena, Artemis, Apollo and Poseidon are pre yamnaya. They syncretized with Zeus becoming the Lord, probably due to Greece switching to the Greek language. This probably came about through a Mycenaean dynasty becoming powerful and speaking Greek and defeating the other Mycenaean dynasties of the time- or maybe to do with tin trade routes, since yamnaya had replaces most farmers to the North and they probably spoke some Indo European language which made it easier to trade. This is reinforced by yamnaya chariot lore, which, when useless in Greek mountainous terrain, became a symbol of travel and commerce and thus trade.
>>17960349>Aresis linked to the Greek word ἀρή (arē), meaning "curse, ruin, malediction, imprecation," also found in Linear B, and is related to the Sanskrit इरस्या (irasyā, "malevolence"), that is, a Proto-Indo-European origin. Refuted.>Apollohas a complex Indo-European name, according to Brown, E. L. (2004). Basically, Apollo has an IE name and is cognate with Anatolia; it may be Anatolic, but not necessarily Indo-European. Refuted, again >Poseidonδῶν comes from the Doric word *δᾶϝον (dâwon), "water" PIE *dah2- "water" or *dʰenh2- "to run, flow" similar to Sanskrit दन् dā́-nu- "fluid, drop, dew" river names like Danube < *Danuvius or Don).I.e. *Posei-dawōn "ruler of the waters."Refuted... again and this anon>>17960267Is correct, he was a horse like deity>ArtemisAlso a goddess dating from the Mycenaean period, attested from an early date as Mycenaean Greek 𐀀𐀳𐀖𐀵In addition to Beeks, there is evidence of Anatolian origin, but with Indo-European names,from the same author cited above.Refuted>athenaThere is no consensus, and the arguments for a pre-IE origin for her name are vague, but anyway, and again, Beekes argues this based on the variations seen in this word and Ἀττικός. But even if she is the only clearly pre-IE goddess, she was Indo-Europeanized in several aspects that do not resemble anything in the chthonic deities said to be common in the pre-IE world, and apart from the connection with serpents, Athena does not resemble Minoan deities.The rest of your post is garbage, yes, my dear insect, another humiliation.Stop copy and past from desuarchive.org, filthy dumb
>>17960349Oh yeah, you're that idiot who made shitty threads about Greece and haplogroup J? Well, I'm still waiting for a response to my other thread about your idea of changing the language for trade reasons. It simply doesn't make sense, because you must necessarily assume that the IEs were much more advanced than the EEFs, because it's illogical to change to the language of uncivilized peoples. It didn't happen in the American colonies, and it would make sense if it were a lingua franca. And the issue of IE deities complicates this even further.Stop OP, please>>17960454Based
>>17960454>beekesnot at all impartial, a terrible linguist with a fetish for finding and forcing pre-IE etymologies on everything, even when it went against the consensus>>17960188Did They spoke IE or ""Pelasgian""?
>>17960454>but not necessarily Indo-European. Refuted, againBut not necessarily pre-IE***
>>17960349>>17960454Here is a paper which confirms Ἄρης is Indo-European.https://doi.org/10.1515/if-2014-0011
>>17960496Yes, thanks. I'm tired of these guys copying arguments from pre-IE names without reciting the source of these conclusions and their respective "pre-IE" etymologies, I assume it's from Beekes. But I cited an article for him, I bet he won't bother to read it, he's a mere provocateur.
>>17960454I just realized I didn't explain all of Poseidon's suffixes.PIE pótis means "master", and the Proto-Hellenic would be πόσσις
>>17960496You said you would stop talking about etymology, leave us alone
>>17960454There's one thing everyone here should understand about how Beekes used the term "Pre-Greek": while this allows for the possibility of Pre-IE origins, Pre-Greek doesn't strictly mean Pre-IE.He casts a wide net with that category, so it's best to take it literally: any language that came before Greek. It may even accidentally include more recent loan words so in the broadest sense just "non-Greek". That could be anything.Pre-IE implies Pre-GreekPre-Greek does not imply Pre-IEOkay, but what are the IE alternatives? Namely Anatolian languages but also any Balkan language related to Greek in some way is possible. Greeks were, after all, in contact with Anatolians. If you understand the sound changes involved with one of those languages you might be able to notice what language family it belongs to. Sometimes a so-called "Pre-Greek" word could still be Greek but the sound changes involved are obscure or the dialectal variation isn't well understood.
>>17960542>You said you would stop talking about etymology, leave us aloneWho said that? I never said that.
from a minoan perspective the mycenaeans were outsiders
>>17960551Not really
>>17960590Weren't their cultures so different it inspired the myth of Atlantis?
>>17960606Mycenaean copied basically all from Minoans
>>17960543Beekes fanboy
>>17960610Right but mycenaeans weren't originally a maritime power, they were a terrestrial based warlike people
>>17960188Now define "Pelasgian". Oh yeah, you can't. /thread
>>17960480I already mentioned that they changed it to trade with Anatolia in that thread, not steppeniggers. Anatolians spoke IE with zero steppe admixture. I'm also not OP.
>>17960623Not him, but they were pre-greek peopleAnd athenians, our fathers of westen civilization, were Pelasgians. Cope, seethe and dilate
>>17960630>bla bla blaSince there was no consistent answer to my question, I took this as a nice concession. Your argument about language change due to economic factors is not only flawed, but also unsupported. And it's anchronically retarded. If the new PIA model is correct, it wouldn't make sense that Proto-Greek changed from Dilatto due to much older Anatolian languages. And again, you don't know what a French language is. If they were dialects from India to Scandinavia or something like modern English, your bullshit theory might be less garbage, but they are separate languages with their own morphologies and grammatical rules. It makes no sense. Throw your theory in the trash if you don't want to be embarrassed, you piece of trash.
>>17960650>DilattoDialects
>>17960650I suspect that the OP and all his intelligence, believes in the trash of the Anatolian Homeland
IE hypothesis just DECIMATED! alertIts over, this shitty theory, its over
>>17960669indeed, a death blow to this archeological theory, one of the pillars of the theory is the spread of steppe ancestry and "IE culture", but it turns out that there is no ancestral PIE culture, as proven by this study.
>>17960675Yes, a theory full of holes, so poorly done that even they are not able to say which "Aryan" culture entered Greece, there is no PIE people or culture
>>17960650It makes complete sense. The Yamna had clear trade routes through the Caucasus-Armenia area. They most likely picked up the language from the Anatolians and Greek/Armenian was a natural evolution.
>>17960188My neighbor who's Mexican is probably about 15% steppe and he speaks 2 indo-European languages. Mycenaeans weren't pre-IE, they wrote their language down ffs. Use your head. Unless you're saying Greek culture owes more to "pelasgians" than the first Greek speakers in Greece (who probably looked like Logkas), in which case... maybe... fuzzy subject. Definitely owe a lot to Minoans and Cycladic people and probably Carians and misc. other Aegean groups. But their language and a ton of their gods and probably their approach to war and conquest was IE.
Their language and religion are purely IE.
>>17960684No, it doesn't. We'll use Greece as an example, you illiterate idiot. They had settlements, and it wouldn't make sense to change the language of the steppe. What did the Yamnaya have that was so important that they supposedly all changed their language for commercial reasons? Worm, Horses? The Yamnaya used them, but for war and transportation. In your stupid comment, you say "chariots," they didn't have chariots yet. Proto-Greek dates back to 2200 BC. The Yamnaya trade routes from the Caucasus also refute your argument. Why then doesn't the Caucasus speak IE
>>17961430>but for But not*
>>17960684WrongJust today, 2 guys refuted you, I will be the third, according to the linguistic point of view, PIE comes from the steppe, not Anatolia. And secondly, it doesn't make sense that it was for purely commercial factors when cultures and migratory IE influx
>>17961471Linguistic point of viewI.e. there are no plausible arguments for an Anatolian origin of PIE that Yamnaya or Sredny Stog could "learn", this is garbage without genetic, archaeological and linguistic dispute, Greek itself comes from migrations of the Catacomb culture, where Logkas can be modeled with almost 43%. in short, no Anatolian origin of anything, either PIE or Greek, in fact, Greece influenced Anatolia more than the opposite
>>17960454>Athena"Athana Potnija", the "athana" part seems related to "athanate" (immortal)>ApolloThe root *pel-/pol-/pal- seems common in various words, sometimes related to vibration/oscillation, which sounds fitting for a sun god>AresTrue, it might also be related to "aristos">ArtemisCould be related to the root "arti-"
>>17961562Well, I'm interested in these etymologies, where did you get them? I showed my sources.>True, it might also be related to "aristos"Unlikely, the root is ἀρή Ans read this paper>>17960496
>>17961701>>17961562you two are putting too much emphasis on linguistics, and even worse, an author as irrelevant as beekes and his reckless attempts to find "pre-greek".
Greek pantheon is Indo-European, the same with their cultureThread/
>>17961562>aristosEtymologically, it doesn't make much sense for Ares to be related to Heristos (a superlative).We have Areïkós and Areithŭ́sănos, but they are necessarily related to Hellenic Heristos. However, in fact, there was a deity in the original PIE pantheon called *aryomen who basically interceded for the general population associated with marriage/fecundity and pathways, the Poetic Edda, we find “iormungrund” used to describe the world - Irmin’s ground. Irmin, cognate with Vedic Aryaman and Gaelic Eremon, or even Iarl and Iormun-Arya and Aryaman.but this is not the topic of the thread and I don't want it to become an "Aryanism" blanket, but there is a very obscure Greek deity called Aristaeus, which is in fact etymologically related to the term aristos. From Ancient Greek Ἀρισταῖος (Aristaîos, literally “Most Excellent, Most Useful”but it is not necessarily related to Aryomen PIE, at least etymologically. But it is interesting that a deity has been related to the term Aristos as we see in other branches, so see this as a mere consideration or curiosity. However, because their myths are very different from each other, it is difficult to draw a more direct similarity. But starting from the premise that Aryomen was a benevolent deity for the people as a whole, in some myths Aristaeus was linked to the founding myth of Thebes by his marriage to Autonoe, and also helped find the islanders suffering from diseases, and not for less, he is referenced as being the patron of shepherds and cattle. Again, it is not certain that it is related to Aryomen etymologically or even directly mythologically, but there are some considerations and similarities, even if "vague", and his name having an etymology with Aristos is essential.https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Aristaeus#English>>17961704Correct
>>17961728>HeristosH2eristos
>>17960188Worthless retard
>>17960739Mexicans and other latrino turds would be about 10% Yamnaya, less than African-Americans and Indians
>>17961704eeta correct, only athena is certainly not Indo-European, however, only etymologically, since she was clearly Indo-Europeanized as the other anon said above
>>17960205The Indo-European poet has a paradoxical dual identity as a craftsman among others and as a sacred half-mad prophet-priest, Ancient Greece and early medieval Ireland were archaic h2eryós societies on the oriental and occidental ends of Europe whose long. Very Indo-EuropeanIrish society was exotic in some ways compared to other Indo-European societies, in other ways it was comically, almost parodically Aryan, much like Greece in this regard.
>>17961800>>17960454Athena is so deeply rooted in the Indo-European worldview that, literally, the goddess/spirit Nika is found to the right of Athens, the root being Athens' victory in every battle fought. In mythology, when Athens fought against other gods, Athens always won because of Nika. Nika comes from the Proto-Indo-European *neyk- (“to attack, advance upon”) and is cognate with νεῖκος (neîkos, “struggle, conflict”), Lithuanian ap-ni̇̀kti (“to attack”).But of course, our favorite insect Beekes isn't convinced and barks about being pre-Greek, Athena has no prominent chthonic features.there is also Linear B a-ta-na po-ti-ni-ja and di-u-ja or di-wi-ja (Diwia, "of Zeus" or possibly related to a homonymous goddess i.e. in a translation "Athena of Zeus" very Indo-European, beyond her etymology, there is an accepted consensus that the cult of Athena preserves aspects of the proto-indo-european transfunctional goddess, athena is ultimately an aryan goddess.Pelasgians sisters?
>>17961829>>17961801People like the OP don't have the ability to understand that, even with the>very low steppe boosociety held many archaic Indo-European features, myths and legends, and major gods. And the OP conveniently ignores how the Hellenists later looked back on microwaves as a golden age past.
>>17961848>microwavesKek Mycenaeans
This dilution of steppe ancestry is evident with the Mycenaean J2b L283 (Z615 branch) samples from Mygdalia from Skourtanioti. They are around 30% WSH. MYG002, their aunt, is about 40%. So, their J2b L283 grandfather (top of tree), should be around 45% Yamnaya ancestry.
>>17961881IE who invaded Greece had about 50% steppe ancestry, maybe less, aka logkas so the contribution of that population was probably greater than 15%.
>>17961881Steppe ancestry to Greece is direct, the first migrants were ~80%, you can tell because they have little cuceteni trypillia DNA If was Bulgaria Yamnaya as Davidski states>>17960267
>>17961894Greek source (as all balkans pops) was mediated by catacomb, already mixed with EEF, and would you use CT? There's more logical proxy, since Peloponnese_Neolithic
>>17961907>catacomb >already mixed they are actually in the same cluster as core yamnaya, it's just not true>Peloponnese_Neolithicno article used this as a source
>>17961917They used Catacomb for lack of a better proxy, Mycenaeans have Logkas, not Catacomb directly. Do you understand what proxies are?
>>17961921>Mycenaeans have Logkas, not Catacomb directly? Dumb coper, logkas had yamnaya/catacomb
>>17960454Thread/
>>17962964yes, besides that list that is spammed here about "pre-ie Greek gods", based solely on beekes, there is no evidence for this statement, the Greek Pantheon is Indo-European.Although I do not necessarily agree with everything, this anom has interesting points: Athena is the only deity with a possible but not accepted "pre-Greek" etymology, but at the same time she is a deity with Indo-European characteristics, the same with Apollo and Artemis, but the latter are Indo-European Anatolians.
OP has been obliterated in so many ways that there is nothing left, you lunatics
>>17962968There is no evidence for Indo-cope theory either. It's outdated. Zeus and Odin have nothing in common.
>>17962968Yes yes I don't understand much etymology to be true, but it's cool to read where can I learn about it?
>>17962981It depends on what you want to learn: mythology or linguistics? I recommend doing research together, as both fields complement each other. For the former, I recommend studying comparative mythology. I can recommend Mallory, David Anthony, Jaan Puhvel, Witzel, etc etc There are many good authors and books on the subject.I'm now reading a book on Indo-European mythology and its relationship with the environment and how this influenced the creation of these myths in the Pontic steppe, many interesting parallels even with the animals they live with and how this received mythological explanations.I also recommend taking a look at the "Indo-European Studies" website, which is updated frequently. Keep in mind that many authors of comparative mythology are also linguists, and always look for serious authors. Regarding linguistics, I recommend some dictionaries; I recommend this website.https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieolVery good.Some dictionaries I can mention would be Delamarre for Celtic, which I definitely recommend, and Delamarre. Some of these are in French, and I could mention some interesting authors, but perhaps not as well-known or renowned, but there are other great authors, including Koch.Kroonen has a very good Proto-Germanic Dictionary, cited by others;Kloekhorst has a decent Hittite Dictionary; Derksen has a Slavic dictionary; Vaan and Michiel have italics, etc etc etc just a few of the many I have in my folder, the ones I haven't mentioned aren't necessarily bad. Good research, and of course, use genetics and archaeology as a supplement.
>>17963012Thank you, h2eryósbrotherhood
>>17963018Don't be like that, it's a beautiful image, and I realized I didn't cite a dictionary for Greek matters, but you can read this author I cited here>>17960454 or this one I use a lot personally: "The Greek-Spanish Dictionary"
>>17963032Thanks for sharing the information. I intend to read the RV too and see the mythological issue of it. Cheers anon. Good night.
>>17961928>directlyESL check lad
>>17963035It was nothing, good night, my brother. God bless youRegarding the RV, I advise you to be extremely careful. There are flawed translations and """revised"" translations with ideological bias. The translation with the best vigor, and with some academic relevance, used by some serious articles on the subject, is the updated translation by Manfred Mayrhofer. it's in German, so it can be difficult. But it's better than Wikipedia or a baseless, crappy dictionary.
with this we have that the Greeks not only had an Indo-European language, but their myths were also Aryan based and Aryanized
>>17960188>PelasgianWith this, we know how seriously their reductionist claims cannot be taken... Pelasgians were not a type of "entity" or even a language; the ancients themselves had immense difficulty defining this term. Related photoPelasgians is a vague term that ultimately means "aborigines," but the term was already coined by Greek-speaking peoples. If it's a question of language, we don't know what language "Pelasgians" was and whether it was actually something like "EEF" or some other nonsense. Read more and cope less.
>>17963060>entityIdentity
>>17963049They're really barely Pelasgian assuming the term Pelasgian doesn't include Minoans. They look like they're minimally pre-Greek/pre-Minoan mainland native. They're probably comparably ultimately-Catacomb as they are native mainland Helladic people.
>>17963060This term has mythological value, not historical. The Arcadians were said to be "the oldest of Greece" and were not considered Pelasgians or any other nonsense like that, quite the opposite, they worshipped Indo-European goddesses. It is a false term like "Latin"
>>17963049End of the thread>>17960331and these shamans made these ANF gentlemen adopt their tradition and language in some way, explain it to us OP
>>17963074>>17963060the Greeks were clear: Pelasgian = native. Period, term used similarly as autochthonous and to the sadness of the retarded who masturbate with this word of ***SEMITIC*** origin not from a magical "EEF" or Minocuck language, the choice is yours: either the Greeks were Semites "originally" and will have to kill their pride of being the same to this day or assume that this word was polysemic.
>>17963089We don't know what the "EEF" languages were like, they were so relevant, lol. The same in Greece. The overwhelming majority of words accepted as non-IE are names of plants, rivers, and places, but this is highly expected when a language replacement occurs. Such things are generally preserved. There are several places and rivers in the USA and Canada with native names, but the language is not Amerindian. It is not possible to reconstruct languages with isolated words. Another defeat.
>>17961664>The Mycenaeans (1600–1100 BC) came from the Minoan (3000–11000 BC)The Mycenaeans literally invaded and the Minoans. I thought this was a history forum?
>>17963060>>17963089Correct, and i found common pathologies throughout the Semitic world I found common pathologies throughout the Semitic world.There's even a curious thing: the Egyptian pwrꜣsꜣtj, which seems to be related, is an ethnonym listed as one of the Sea Peoples (Palastu)
>>17963806>pathologiesEtymology
>>17963806>Semitic world... what?
>>17963810don't interpret this as meaning they were Semites; there is no evidence for a Semitic ethnogenesis. I'm simply saying the word has a possible cognate with Semitic. Egyptian pwrꜣsꜣtj has a possible cognate with Akkadian 𒆳𒉿𒇷𒄑𒋫 (KUR Pilistu) and 𒆳𒉺𒆷𒀾𒋫 (KUR Palastu), and Hebrew פְּלֶשֶׁת (Pəléšeṯ, “Philistia”). Compare also Ancient Greek Πελασγός (Pelasgós).Malte-Brun described Pelasgian as an early version of Greek and distinguished it from Illyrian, which he considered a branch of the Thracian language, term for any ancient, primitive and presumably indigenous people in the Greek world
>>17963819Yes, yes, my problem with this term is that it doesn't seem to mean anything.Some ancient writers, however, described the Pelasgians as Greeks.
>>17963825yes, so it is an irrelevant term as this anon said here>>17963060In fact, there are so many theories about the origin of this term that it's really pointless to argue. It's not pessimism, it's just that there's no solid information.For example, some of the more interesting theories I found.Gilbert Murray summarized the derivation of "Pelasgoi" as possibly coming from πέλας, meaning "near" or "neighbor," denoting the people closest to the invading GreeksJulius Pokorny derived "Pelasgoi" from *pelag-skoi, meaning "inhabitants of the plains", specifically the inhabitants of the Thessalian plain.Ernest Klein suggested that "Pelasgoi" (*pelag-skoi) derives from the same root *plāk-, shared with "pelagos" (sea) and "plagos" (flat side), meaning "the men of the sea", where the sea is flat.Finally, I'd like to mention Beekes, the terrible one, in his fetish for "pre-Greek" words, which many use from their sources in a distorted light.>The search for Pelasgian was an expensive and useless distraction.If even Beekes had the honesty to admit this, why should we do otherwise? It's truly fruitless. I ***personally*** believe that the word was used to describe basically loved ones, not necessarily non-Greeks, archaic; the ancients used language as a correlate of people.
>>17963838Nooo Pelasgians sisters? We wuz fake n sheit? Its over, bros. Much of the problem lies in the fact that ancient authors used this term to describe Greek speakers, even Doric speakers.
>>17963838>loved onesMy joke went wrongbut anyway, it's used to describe archaic dialects
to put a nail in the coffinin this case for those who argue that the "Pelasgians" had a pre-IE language were necessarily pre-IE, I leave them with García-Ramón's conclusions;>the attempt to determine phonological rules for an Indo-European pre-Greek language ('Pelasgian') is considered a complete failure today
>>17960349>>17960630why do brown people have such a hard time coping with reality?
>>17965070He is blurting out outdated southern arc nonsense. These guys still live in that era. The armenian hypothesis copers of modernity
>>17965253It's not outdated, chimp. It comes down to who actually spoke the language now, the Southern or the Northern cline of the CLV people.
>>17965271Aren't relevantly aged and placed Caucasus group languages known to be non-IE?
>>17965275Yes but Kartvelian has clear connections to IE. It's just an older form.
>>17960188Greek is an indo-European language, I’m not sure why you’re challenging that.
>>17960606A retard that you personally enjoy claimed this, but it’s garbage normlafag soundbyte trash, and is easily debunked.
>>17965374Oh yeah? Then riddle me this: Tell me WHY they use them letters, because that shit isn't letters.
PI TRIANGLE 3 SCREAMING NIGGA CLOSE YOUR EYES
