What was the long-term strategy to secure Jerusalem and was it ever going to work?
>>17965819Take Egypt and push into Syria but they failed in their attempts to do so.
>>17965830Land bridge to Constantinople like the Byzantines wanted would have made much more sense logistically speaking. But that would have entailed dealing with duplicitous greeks and greedy scheming armenians which probably would have complicated things
>>17965819To take Egypt and the major cities of the Levant. They failed to take Allepo and Damascus, when the Fatmids started to weaken the Crusaders were in the country nearly every year trying to win it but they lost out to Saladin’s father at the last moment and instead Egypt fell to Nur al-din Zengi. The Crusade leaders from the West knew this, the second crusade tried to take the Levant cities and the third one was supposed to be directed to Egypt and so was the fourth one, or at least so they said. After the end of Jerusalem there were writers who recognised that taking Egypt was vital for continued crusader states although the actual Crusader states already knew this well before
>>17965819With righteous valor.
>>17965830This The subsequent crusades to the first were all about taking Egypt because they knew Outremer would fail if they didn't.
>>17965819More importantly, what would it have cost and what would have paid for it?
>>17965819>What was the long-term strategy to secure Jerusalem and was it ever going to work?Jerusalem is already secured, since Jesus Christ at the Second Coming will expel the invaders from His rightful land, His due inheritance. And the elect of God will take it over then, since it says we will reign with Him. It's written right there in the scriptures.All we have to do is wait for the Second Coming of Christ. That's the strategy.
>>17965819wait there are 2 tripolis?
>>17966096Yes. There are also two Thebes.
Convert to Orthodoxy so they are not seen as foreigners even by the native christian population
>>17965977What will be done with the Jews? Christians are God's chosen through Supercession and the Jews commit the only unforgivable sin which is rejecting Jesus Christ.They should be expelled.
>>17966174Why is it a sin?
>>17966154>Convert to OrthodoxyThe local Christians were actively hostile to Orthodox Christians and preferred the Catholics. Maronite and Armenian Christians were willing to work with the Crusaders and vice versa, they were not willing to do so with the Byzantines due to religious hostility.
>>17966305That was true for the northern crusade states in Syria, but in and around Jerusalem itself Greek orthodoxy predominanted
>>17965901Jews
>>17965830>>17965882That why Richard I have objective taking Nile fertile but stubborn French crusader circle refuse and lacking manpower
>>17965819quite amazing that the coastal three lasted for 170~190 years.
>>17966154The local christians were much more friendly to the crusaders, especially as the Byzantines started forcing the Greek rite on all the levantine christians in the previous Century.The Papacy in comparison was much more tollerant of local rites in Exchange for obbediente (hence why the Maronites and such exist)
>>17965819what was the relationship between those states? was the king of Jerusalem their overlord? could a realm stretched from antioch to Palestine survive longer?
>>17966818They were autonomous states that sometimes sweared oaths of vassallage to either the Emperor or Jerusalem, depending on which was the biggest dog at given MomentFor quite some times Antioch and Tripoli were on a personal union too
>>17965819The main goal was always to either take the whole of Syria (First decades) or take over Egypt (later decades). The crusaders themselves knew otherwise their position was very precarious
>>17966818The other states were vassals of Jerusalem. They were nominally independent in the same way other nominally independent duchies where, able to manage their own affairs but technically subservient to the King.However like Europe at the time these states could also be divided into estates and castles owned by noble families and often families would cross the borders. Example, before the 3rd Crusade the County of Tripoli was a vassal of Jerusalem, but the County also had lands within Jerusalem and significant influence over the King at the time.
>>17965819Long-term strategy?
>>17966809>in the previous Century.They were already following the Greek rite you faggot
>>17966799Geography helped, bad diplomacy didn't.
>>17965819There really wasn't any. Let's what was needed>good diplomacy, playing local rulers against eachThat worked for quite some time, but then strong people like Zengi, Nur ad-din and Saladin came and, with exception of Saladin, weren't much interested in diplomacy>constant supply of new crusadersAfter the Third Crusade Europe practically lost interest in Outremer as there was barely any land for adventuring nobles to gain (the real reason the crusades happened in the first place). Then the Fourth Crusader led to establishment of Latin Empire and crusader states in modern day Greece, so nobody felt like dying for Acre and what else was left>moneyConstant problem. The first king of Jerusalem, Baldwin, spent most of his time raiding the lands around the kingdom. Barely any natural resources. Difficult climate for Europeans. Little support from Europe
>>17966207See the following:"Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it."(Acts 7:52-53)"Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."- Matthew 21:33-44
>>17965977How drole.
Common Muslim strategy: fortify
>>17968229Muslim strategy was to keep ramming into a wall until it broke
>>17965819It was all about Edessa. First place they visited on the First Crusade and the birth place of the "Historical Jesus" who was literally named "King Jesus of Edessa". If you know, you know.
>>17966842This guy gets it ;) Syria was the cash cow for the Romans going way back and places like Palmyra, Damascus and Edessa are central to the History of Christianity more than Jerusalem, which was just a setting for the movie, so to speak. Edessa is the key to it all. If you know, you know.
>>17967129Note the use of "Masonic"/masonry language, which is a reference to Jesus being a "Tekton"/builder/mason/"archiTEKT", and not in any way a "carpenter". He is the Rock of Ages, the stone that builders(tektons/masons/initiates) refused, who was killed on "skull rock" and arose from tomb of stone. On and on it goes.....suffice it to say, Jesus was no "poor, pauper carpenter" in anyway.
>>17965819Take Egypt and kick ass. They could’ve taken it but they were high off the success of conquering the Levantine coast and did not take precautions. Corruption, brutality, infighting further weakened them. If they had done research into Egypt and found the best time to invade they could’ve done it. Something about swamps or rivers or water in the region at the time, I forget. If they’d have invaded at a different time and done things differently, they could’ve been successful in Egypt, which at the time was still half Christian, used its wealth and manpower to carry out a full-on Reconquista of the formerly Christian lands of the Eastern half of the Roman Empire
>>17965977> if i just believe in jesus hard enough, i can do nothing and good things will happen to me! this is why pagans hate christianity
>>17968596Because it honors God?
