>>17966203
A framework for international cooperation that enables co-prosperity (NATO, EU, UN etc) which, while not eliminating war entirely, greatly reduces a given wars potential for snowball effect and escalation into global war.

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Cull the germanic negrophilia permanently.

>>17966203
Make London a Free City under Polish customs control

>>17966209
The League of Nations was a thing and it did jackshit thoughbeit

>>17966203
Genociding Eastern Germany seemed to do the trick. At least it brought us a century of peace

>>17966214
Make Paris a Free City under Polish customs control

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>>17966214
>>17966223
Based and Pax Polonica pilled

>>17966203
Repopulate Western Europe with Slavs, Blacks, Jeets, and Australian Aboriginals
Send all the Whiteoids to Antarctica

>>17966228
This meme really became a reality after all those years.

>>17966203
Make England Hindu and Germany Muslim, then create a Sikh France to maintain the balance of power

Make Beijing a Free City under Polish customs control

>>17966203
Have everyone convert to Judaism. If everyone is Jew, no can be Jewed

>>17966203
Balkanize every country with more than 1M inhabitants.

>>17966203
>How do we make sure something of this scale doesn't happen again
Get rid of kkkrackers

>>17966228
The power-fantasy is to leech off other's money while they seethe?

>>17966203
Cursed version of countryballs

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>>17966203
>How do we make sure something of this scale doesn't happen again?
Kick the Amerimutts out of Europe, so we can make peace with Russia and have normal relations with them.
In that scenario, I don't see how a global conflict could break out.
Unless a global economic/financial crisis will be a trigger for China to take a once in a millenium opportunity to strike the US, but if they have such a plan, it's basically inevitable at this point:

>>17966271
>make peace with Russia so that they will have Europe at their mercy when the time comes.
No.
Putin is a imperialist maniac

>>17966271
>we
who's we?
fuck off right back to where you belong you filthy mongrel, poles don't need you nor your russia here

>>17966271
'Normal Relations' with Russia are characterised by mistrust, mutual hatred, and military units kept on permanent '5 minute standby' on either side of the Russian border.

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>>17966250
>power-fantasy
*reality
Pay up, white boy

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>>17966203
Higher living standards make people far less likely to be swayed by extremist ideologies
Increased economic cooperation between European countries limits the number of people who would benefit from war
Widespread internet and television have brought people from different cultures together, increasing global empathy
Low birth rates make working-age men far more valuable, so countries are less likely to sacrifice them en masse in war

tldr incels saved the world, also nobody wants to get nuked

>>17966216
We’ve learned from the League of Nations thoughbeit and great power wars since then have been infrequent, despite the great potential. It’s only deteriorating as liberal democracy deteriorates by reaching its logical conclusion. More sane actors need to be at the wheel.

>>17966271
The difference is that the Russians won't leave unless we kick them out.
The Americans would leave if we simply asked them.


As much as I dislike both Russia and America, and want a EU independent of both, I still understand the reality of the situation. Mutts are fucked in the head, but they are still preferable to Ziggers.

>>17966291
>Putin is a imperialist maniac
Then what is the US in comparison?

>>17966292
>fuck off right back to where you belong you filthy mongrel, poles don't need you nor your russia here
Yeah, we actually do, for their cheap oil and gas.

>>17966303
>'Normal Relations' with Russia are characterised by mistrust, mutual hatred, and military units kept on permanent '5 minute standby' on either side of the Russian border.
And it was Russia who started it, right? After the fall of the Soviet Union I mean.

>>17966595
>The difference is that the Russians won't leave unless we kick them out.
How are they supposed to leave if they're not even there? In fact, they were kicked out in 2022.
>The Americans would leave if we simply asked them.
Yeah, I'm sure they'll have no problem leaving the land they've been occupying for over 70 years, just like that.
>As much as I dislike both Russia and America, and want a EU independent of both, I still understand the reality of the situation.
Then explain to me why Russia poses such a threat to Europe that it justifies US presence here.

>>17966228
Reality being that Poland is a vassal of the United States and is pretty much forced to help Ukraine, a country it hates, even though Poland has gotten literally nothing in return for it

>>17966203
>How do we make sure something of this scale doesn't happen again?
Nooks and the lack of a militarily powerful German state, that's the reason why it hasn't happened again even though WW1 and WW2 happened back to back

>>17966658
Russia started a war of aggression against a weaker neighbor for no reason. You DO NOT start a war in Europe.

>>17966658
Regardless of what your /pol/ meme say, USA never occupied Europe. Russia however did occupy half of Europe for 50 years.

Half of Europe absolutely hates Russia.

>>17966595
>The Americans would leave if we simply asked them.
I'm sure they would, that's why your country has no party that can be elected which will ask them that question, America has gone to great lengths to ensure this.
>>17966865
>Russia started a war of aggression against a weaker neighbor for no reason
Ok? So why are you buying American equipment and asking for more American military bases instead of building up your own industrial base?
>>17966916
>USA never occupied Europe
Under American suzerainty Poland went from a 99% Polish ethnostate to being infested with Indians and Ukrainians

>>17966210
Source?

>>17966855
I thought Ukraine was a buffer state between NATO and Russia.

>>17966958
A buffer state that harvests Polish money and floods it with refugees in exchange for Ukraine saying 'actually you deserved to get genocided fuck you lmao'. Its like the relationship between America and Israel, strategically sound in concept, but completely one sided and parasitic in practice.

>>17966987
The money doesn't belong to the poles, but to cuckold in chief Mr. Tusk. Genetically and phenotypically both people aren't that different either, so it's actually better than relations between muttistan and pissrael. It's not your money anyway geg, not anymore.

>>17966943
>>17966987

Funny how you're seething about Poland so much in every post you make. What causes this?

>>17967021
I'm not seething about Poland, I am a Pole I'm just very critical of my country and want to see it be a sovereign regional power instead of a satellite of the US and use its leverage over Ukraine wisely for the benefit of the Polish state.

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>>17966855
>Reality being that Poland is a vassal of the United States and is pretty much forced to help Ukraine
If he could, Trump would gladly make Europe stop all aid and sanctions for a Nobel Peace Prize and a chance Putin does it without a condom next time in Alaska. Europe, and by extension Poland, would stop helping Ukraine immediately if it truly was the globohomo satanic fascist nazi jewish CIA puppet state you claim it is, not to mention Ukraine itself would surrender on the spot; instead, Zaluzhny laughed at JD Vance not even a week ago for asking him to do a coup.

>>17967024
And you refuse to believe that it's the Poles themselves who chose to be a part of NATO? And that Poland isn't allowed to leave it?
Seeing how you call the US an occupation.

>>17967032
If Poland was allowed to leave NATO then there would be an electable party that would pledge to do so and rebuild Poland's own defense industry. Instead, Poland cancelled every project to build their own weaponry and instead surrendered more of their defense autonomy by buying weapons from America and South Korea, not even bothering to pursue nuclearization even though Poland is extremely justified in obtaining a nuclear weapon due to the Russian threat, and every single party wants to uphold the status quo including Konfederacja, because democracy is fake and gay and designed to trick gullible retards like you into thinking your opinion matters
>>17967030
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. Europe's aid means jack and shit in comparison to American aid, if Europe's aid stopped tomorrow nothing changes. Poland's leverage is that most of the aid America sends travels through Poland. And America's aid won't stop because US foreign policy is trying to salvage what they can out of Ukraine but is failing to negotiate with monke because monke is winning right now and Ukraine is hemorrhaging men which puts them on a timer.

>>17967032
Also I find it laughable how vehemently you are defending Poland relegating all of its defense capabilities to the Americans, when the West doesn't exactly have a good track record of helping Poland when they're under attack

>>17967048
>If Poland was allowed to leave NATO then there would be an electable party that would pledge to do so and rebuild Poland's own defense industry
Brother, Braun and his party are exactly that and he got over 6% in June and he's only growing. You'd think they would've culled him by now.
>Europe's aid means jack and shit in comparison to American aid
European aid: €150 billion
US aid (not USAID btw): $70 billion
https://epthinktank.eu/2025/06/26/state-of-play-eu-support-to-ukraine/
https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine
>Poland's leverage is that most of the aid America sends travels through Poland.
So is Poland a vassal or a partner with leverage?
>US foreign policy is trying to salvage what they can out of Ukraine but is failing to negotiate with monke because monke is winning right now and Ukraine is hemorrhaging men which puts them on a timer.
What are they salvaging exactly? Are Americans aiding Ukraine or sucking it dry?
Also sure, monke is moving forward, but he also faces tremendous manpower issues and equipment problems, meanwhile last major win for Russia was Bakhmut, and Pokrovsk was supposed to be captured months ago. They had to beg the fucking norks to help out in Kursk. Yes, it's "winning" as in gaining territory, but to say it's preferable to getting four oblasts on a golden platter from Trump himself is just insane.

>>17967090
>June
*May
Got confused there ngl

>>17967090
>over 6%
Wow, 6%! That's not even HALF of Konfederacja
>Europe's aid means jack and shit in comparison to American aid
So why is Ukraine asking primarily for American stuff like Patriot systems and American long-range missiles, why is Poland buying from America and not Germany or France
>So is Poland a vassal or a partner with leverage?
They're not using the leverage even though they have it so yes they are a vassal.
>What are they salvaging exactly?
I shouldn't need to explain to you how it wouldn't be in America's imperial interest to let Russia take all of Ukraine, thus driving up animosity towards the American security system among the electorate of Eastern European nations, America's stranglehold is from the fact that the populations of Eastern Europe are still fully committed to the belief that America will nuke Moscow if Estonia gets invaded (they aren't, thats why foreign policy shifted overnight from trying to beat Russia, realizing they can't do that, and instead trying to make peace, they want to avoid this outcome because its an unwinnable situation)
>Are Americans aiding Ukraine or sucking it dry?
They are giving them weapons to use as cannon fodder to kill Russians and destroy Russian equipment in the hopes that Ukraine will reclaim some land and gain more leverage for the American camp in peace negotiations. If the fact that Trump met Putin on his own with no Ukrainian presence in Alaska doesn't prove to you that America does not see its own satellites as worth bringing along to a conference about their own fate, I don't know what will.
>he also faces tremendous manpower issues
No he doesn't. Russia has 150 million men, he can call up more whenever he wants.
>Pokrovsk was supposed to be captured months ago
The strategic objective are the highways leading into places such as Kramatorsk
>They had to beg the fucking norks to help out in Kursk
Another Reddit analysis. Kim wanted the North Korean army in Ukraine to gain combat experience.

>>17967116
>Men
I meant people. People to make equipment and there's tens of millions of men to call up. My bad.

>>17966943
>being infested with Indians and Ukrainians
Lmao you don't live in Poland
>Ok? So why are you buying American equipment
I love how you don't even deny how Russia is a warmongering nation state that just bullies its smaller immediate neighbors. That is why it is a threat to Europe.

>>17967118
>Lmao you don't live in Poland
Yeah neither do you then if you haven't seen the sharp demographic change overtime
>I love how you don't even deny how Russia is a warmongering nation state that just bullies its smaller immediate neighbors. That is why it is a threat to Europe.
No I fully agree with this. That's why Poland should also become a warmongering nation state and bully its smaller immediate neighbors. Contrary to what Ukrainians and Lithuanians say, we didn't do that in 1920 and we suffered the consequences for it.

>>17967137
>I replied to the wrong person
Fuck
>>17967130
I meant you

>>17967116
>Wow, 6%! That's not even HALF of Konfederacja
>>that controversial politician that redpills people about our plan to make all Poland gay? maybe we should take him out while he's small? nah let's wait until he grows big and powerful :)
>So why is Ukraine asking primarily for American stuff like Patriot systems and American long-range missiles
So Europe buys American shit for billions of Euros which is somehow insignificant? What are you smoking?
>it wouldn't be in America's imperial interest to let Russia take all of Ukraine
Why? Poles have no say in it since Poland is a hopeless vassal, Balts even more so (Braun is only 6% after all so all the rising discontent among the populace means absolutely nothing). In exchange for a collapsing country with no men, America gains powerful Russia as an eternal friend with all its minerals and resources. This is a terrific fucking deal. If Trump could actually pull it off he'd do it in a heartbeat and, again, get a Nobel Peace Prize as a PR bonus.
>If the fact that Trump met Putin on his own with no Ukrainian presence in Alaska doesn't prove to you that America does not see its own satellites as worth bringing along to a conference about their own fate
Not America, Trump. He is the POTUS right now. It was his idea, his execution, his meeting. HE sees Europe as a bunch satellite states because HE believes the same shit you do, that he can just tell Ukraine to bend over and take it, which doesn't happen in reality. If you take each sentence on its own granted there is some truth to it, but as a whole the idea of there being vassals with leverages who can say no and CIA being retarded enough not to kill the biggest guy that's against their agenda in the biggest hub for aid in Europe while steering global politics behind the scene is just fundamentally retarded.

>>17967137
>That's why Poland should also become a warmongering nation state
Good to know you are just a retard.

>>17967116
>Russia has 150 million people with tens of millions of men, he can call up more whenever he wants
Last time he tried back in 2022/23 1 million people ran away to Kazakhstan. The idea of a massive draft for a special military operation (not even a war) is unthinkable.
>The strategic objective are the highways leading into places such as Kramatorsk
Ok? Well they are losing those now
>Kim wanted the North Korean army in Ukraine to gain combat experience.
That's an ok reason, but still: Russians couldn't take Kursk until North Koreans arrived.
>That's why Poland should also become a warmongering nation state and bully its smaller immediate neighbors
Just boot up HoI4 and get it out of your system bro
I'm going to sleep, have a good one

>>17966648
fuck your oil and fuck your gas, it isn't any cheaper than anyone elses and comes with hidden cost of cents of any euro spent in russia will sooner or later be spent on aggression against europe
we need to contain you to asia where you belong

>>17967116
>Vassal
Retards like you can only think in master/slave relationships. That is what makes you warmongering and subhuman.

>>17966203

Race mix our differences away that way no one group can compare themselves to any other group.

>>17967174
>>>that controversial politician that redpills people about our plan to make all Poland gay? maybe we should take him out while he's small? nah let's wait until he grows big and powerful :)
No, their plan is to ensure that the right-wing vote is being split 3 ways means that Braun will never see any form of power.
>So Europe buys American shit for billions of Euros which is somehow insignificant? What are you smoking?
? They buy American shit at the cost of their own native industries.
>Why? Poles have no say in it since Poland is a hopeless vassal etc
Do you think real life works like HOI4? An occupier still needs some form of complicitness from the occupied. Poles will rebel if they feel that their current master isn't going to protect them from their enemy.
>Not America, Trump. He is the POTUS right now etc
Again, more schizobabble that assumes the world works like a Paradox game. If Trump's just shouting into the void then why did his marketing of pursuing peace instead of trying to annihilate Russia like under Biden get instantly mimicked by the UK, France and Germany as well as Poland and Ukraine. It's not black and white you fucking cretin. Vassals can have leverage while also being vassals.
>Hurr durr why doesnt the CIA just kill politicians they dont like
Because people will ask questions as to why Braun was mysteriously shot in the head 28 times the same way we're all asking questions about Epstein.
>he can just tell Ukraine to bend over and take it
I've already explained to you that that isn't the intention.

>>17967186
All of your points are complete copium so I'm going to ignore them
>Retards like you can only think in master/slave relationships
No but this is quite obviously a master/slave relationship
>That is what makes you warmongering and subhuman.
Because America has never warmongered before. Almost as if the entire world is built by warmongering empires who destroy small countries for territory and resources

>>17966650
who else but russia?
>>17966943
>99% Polish ethnostate
poland hasn't been a 99% polish ethnostate since 1800s
>>17967024
>I am a Pole
unless you show racial traits to prove this claim i'm going to keep assuming you're a russoid

>>17967212
>poland hasn't been a 99% polish ethnostate since 1800s
Poland wasn't a 99% Polish ethnostate prior to Stalin's deportations since fucking Piast times you absolute buffoon

Oh and I just completely forgot the trade deal the EU signed with the US which basically amounted to
>Our tariffs will change very slightly but in return pay us billions of dollars in investment and absolutely NOTHING in return
Yeah that sure is an equal alliance and not an imperial sacking of a conquered region

>>17967214

Not him, but, saar, I think you need to worry more about poopjeets than a random Taras hiding from zogbots in Ukraine that would send him to fight psychotic subhuman buryats.

>>17967116
>Russia has 150 million men, he can call up more whenever he wants.
two years ago you mobilised 300k and didn't even have enough uniforms for all of them. i'd pay good money to see the state of what you can scrap together for a milion mongrel strong army

>>17967220
They're both a problem. Ukrainian men ideally should be deported to Ukraine to fight the Russians as that is the extent of Ukraine's usefulness to Poland.

>>17967221
You underestimate the willingness of a mutted pidorashka here to pay for uniform, armor and weapons just to own the heckin' hohols while mehmet has his way with its family.

>>17967229
>t-they are both a problem!
No, non-whites are a problem. Send your pajeets to Ukraine to disarm mines and leave the Taras alone.

>>17967221
The delusion from you is pretty amusing considering I'm not even trying to say that Russia ISN'T Poland's arch-rival. It has been since Poland was fucking founded. I'm saying that Poland is relegating TOO MUCH of its industry, defense and leverage over Ukraine to the Americans at the cost of its own position in the region. And for some reason there's a massive chimp out over that statement.

>>17967214
poland hasn't been an ehtnostate since russian occupation when jews resettled their brotherly nation - litwaks - between wisla and dzwina.
stalin only deported germans - lemkos got displaced into western poland and he brought even more russoid kikes to the county who've changed their surnames and live in poland pretending to be polish to this very day

>>17967232
>No, non-whites are a problem. Send your pajeets to Ukraine to disarm mines and leave the Taras alone.
No, send them both back, because neither have any usage to Poland outside of the latter being cannon fodder, its not like Ukraine doesn't need the manpower.

>>17967240
>Stalin only deported Germans
Ok, you are a complete retard and I will never pay attention to anything you say again.

>>17967236
nigger russia didn't even exist when poland was founded. you're not a rival of ours you're just another in a long line of steppe savages trying to break into europe

>>17967241
Please explain to me how death of wypipo benefits you, Pan Kurwowicz.
I am from puccia and would consider leaving to poland, but you seem like you aren't friendly types.

>>17967244
Yes it did you dumb retard. The first Polish king literally took it upon himself to sack the Rus' and establish a puppet government, which whether your Ukrainian self likes to believe it or not, was just as much of a Russian state as it was any other East Slavic rabble. You would know this if you were a Pole and not a hohol refugee.

>>17967249
fuck off we're full

>>17967249
>Russia is a threat to Polish security
>Ukraine has manpower issues
>Deport the men to Ukraine to fight the threat to Polish security, kill two birds with one stone
What part of this don't you understand
>I would consider leaving to Poland
Reconsider

>>17967251
ruthenia (ruś) has nothing to do with russia (rosja)
muscovites (a turkic people resulting from mongols crossbreeding khazars and fingols native to volga basin) stole novorodian identity in XVI century and renamed themselves to russians

>>17967252
Okay, got it. Slavs out, churkas in.
Total wh*Toid death.

>>17967259
I don't really give a shit about your Ukrainian mangling of history, you're both the same and should continue fighting each other

>>17967261
russians aren't slavs they're just slavic speakers
similar to how senegalese aren't a frankish people they're just francophones

>>17967262
i can show you my ksiazeczka wojskowa, can you present yours?

>>17967265
Why are you so hellbent on excluding people like me even considering the fact that phenotypically I resemble a >>17967259 Novgorodian, with a classic Slavic phenotype.
I am not the one bombing your house and stealing your toilets.

>>17967270
i don't want more problem races in my country, we've got too much of them as it is

>>17967268
If you genuinely got offended by me calling you a Ukrainian then I think I've won here and convinced you that hohols are just as much of scum as russians

>>17967274
We're brothers, Taras, brothers.
Maybe not everyone in puccia is a brother to you, but I am. I swear I don't have epicanthic folds.

>>17967280
>i\m a pole
<no you're not
>you're an ukr
<i'm not and i can prove it. can you?
>ha! i rustled your jimmies and JUST WON. no need to question my ancestry further

>>17966865
>Russia started
>for no reason
It's hard to be more ignorant.
1. The US was pushing NATO more and more eastwards.
2. The US instigated the 2014 revolution in Ukraine.
It's continuous American aggression while Putin kept saying to just fuck off, and the burgers didn't listen.

>>17967299
1a. russia has no business telling european countries who can and who can't join nato
1b. disregarding that there hasn't been any enlargement for 20 year at that time btw
2. yeah before it because it's not like ukrs could ever figure out that being poor sucks and perhaps it would be better for them to abandon euroasiatism and rejoin europe instead

>>17966271

No.
Putin and his mongols want Europe.

>>17967299
>The US instigated the 2014 revolution in Ukraine.
Proofs? The Ukrainian opposition instigated a power coup with the help of the unruly population and 1 time sought advice from the american embassy on how to proceed, advice they rejected btw.

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>>17967198
the fact that you didn't realize this anon was using your talking points while calling you a paradoxfag and you independently accused him of being a paradoxfag because he was using your talking points is pure pottery kek retard kino at its finest

>>17967386
I don't think you realized that my point was that it isn't black and white, he seems to be in this false dichotomy where Poland can either do what it wants or is under brutal Stalinist oppression which is what he assumes my point was. That is Paradox logic, assuming you are in either one of two states, when it isn't as black and white as that and there are layers to it.

>>17967396
Not to mention he didn't even dispute half of my points, he agreed with a lot of them but just said 'but Russia is also losing or retarded or bad because I say so'

>>17967386
Also
>My talking points
He was arguing against a strawman. He made up some fictitious point of mine, tried to act as if I believed fully in it, then I pointed out that acting as if its either one or the other is unironic hoi4 brain and yet you with your single digit brain cell count misinterpreted this as me arguing with myself, you should possibly not be allowed to live outside of an asylum

>>17966209
>NATO
>reducing war
perhaps through threatening nuclear war against Russia? But NATO and the United States have been aggressively expanding all the way to the borders of Russia, leading to more war. The USA as the main driver of NATO, in particular, has waged wars of aggression and operations like coups and terrorism.

If anything, NATO is more like the tangled alliances that led to the World Wars. Have a small skirmish against one NATO member? Congrats, you just caused WWIII as all NATO nations are bound to defend that member state.

>>17967435
>But NATO and the United States have been aggressively expanding all the way to the borders of Russia, leading to more war.
All the wars in and around Russia has been declared and waged by Russia
>hurr only because NATO
Maybe the reason nations voluntarily (hint: by their own decision, not some CIA backed coup) want to join NATO is because Russia is mercurial belligerent that uses force to coerce them.

>>17967435
>But NATO and the United States have been aggressively expanding all the way to the borders of Russia, leading to more war.
how many wars between new nato members and russia?

>>17967462
This is a discussion more suited for /pol/ but I encourage you to actually read about how the pro-Russian Ukrainian government was deposed by a Western backed coup in 2014 and shelling of Russian speaking areas by Azov years before the war. But you might get your news mostly from mainstream US so I don't think anything will convince you to adopt a more nuanced view of history rather than picking a side in a conflict and deciding that one side is totally GOOD and the other is utterly EVIL.

>>17967482
>heh what a sheep you're trusting mainstream media, just buy into literal russian propaganda if you want an actual nuanced understanding
Yanukovych was a stooge who couldn't even manage being a russian puppet.

>>17967482
Doesn't change his point tho.
NATO was an alliance of voluntary members who desired an alliance with USA.
Warsaw Pact was basically members being held hostage by Russia. If one walked put of line, Russia would literally invade them.

Again, I don't like USA, I'd rather have a EU completely independent from USA, but to compare them to Russia is fucking deranged.
We could literally just tell USA to leave and they would.
With Russia, you need to gun for them to leave.
Hence why half of Europe hates Russia. They know who the Russians are.

>>17967482
>blindly trusting US propaganda is being a brainwashed sheep(((((
>blindly trusting Russian propaganda is being nuanced))))))
I can only imagine how much of a headache living next to Russia is, butthurtbelters have my sympathy

>>17966203
>How do we make sure something of this scale doesn't happen again
Start killing /pol/trannies.

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>>17966203
>How do we make sure something of this scale doesn't happen again?
I've got some ideas:
>get the EU the fuck out of anything unrelated to foreign policy or trade and get it back to its original purpose; the EU as a legal entity should explicitly be an economic zone backed by a common currency and internal free trade as opposed to some bizarre postmodern version of the medieval Catholic church that puts policing the ethics and morality of its constituents over the things it was intended to do. It should basically be a continent-wide Hanseatic League.
>The U.S should have the European NATO members pay their five percent or give them a deadline where they get kicked out for not doing so
>U.S should also stop strongarming European defence industries and allow them to remilitarize and reindustrialize with their own weapons and companies, the U.S really can't spare any weapons
>cut all the money and services to thirdie migrants and get them the fuck out, they're nothing but an economic burden and fifth column (you could easily justify it for national security reasons, even tying it into increasing defense spending and opposing potential Russian influence)
>Either keep supporting the proxy war in Russia with this influx of European weapons and manufacturing to keep them preoccupied or get a quick peace deal where they get the foure regions and Ukraine becomes a nu-Mongolia/Finland neutral buffer state so you can lick your wounds and keep rearming
>Make solving the Cyprus issue and getting Greece and Turkey to reach a detente top priority, that's a powder keg waiting to go off especially with Turkey the way it is
>Give the Serbs North Kosovo as a bone so they get out of Russia's orbit and into discussions with the EU again

>>17967507
>We could literally just tell USA to leave
Key word being could
Strange how not one country has dared to even try, especially considering the only country who even tried to exit NATO's integrated military command was a nuclear power, and a country who doesn't shut up about US dominance in Europe

>>17967605
France did multiple times you retard

>>17966209
>NATO
Based
>EU and UN
Cringe and should be abolished immediately.

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>>17966271
>just let Russia do whatever it wants bro

>>17966642
>Then what is the US in comparison?
Peacekeeper by keeping Russia and China in check.

>>17967605
What exactly are you saying? That USA would invade a European country if they tried to leave NATO?
That no one dares to leave NATO because they fear invasion?

>>17967742
>USA would invade a European country if they tried to leave NATO
No the U.S would just coup them like we did in the Cold War whenever countries in our sphere would step out of line.

>>17967763
How exactly would they coup Norway or Italy if these left NATO?

>>17967791
>How exactly would they coup Norway or Italy if these left NATO
1. The CIA and five eyes operate with impunity in every NATO cunt
2. You're not familiar with the Years of Lead are you

>>17967816
So USA is going to coup Norway using what kind of force of premise to do so?
And even if so, then just continue NATO like nothing happened?

Let's just pray that tensions in the South China Sea don't blow over.

>>17967582
This post felt like running face first at top sprinting speed right into a cactus. Every point made was more painful to read than the last.

>>17967702
Yeah I mentioned them you dumb fucking retard read the whole sentence you illiterate cunt
>>17967742
You don't seriously think the US would let a country exit their sphere without any kind of internal fuckery to try and keep them in- oh wait they did that it was called Operation Gladio.

>>17967847
>Every point made was more painful to read than the last.
Why? Because it's what Europe and the EU needs if it has any chance of being relevant or even existing at all in the future?
>>17967836
>USA is going to coup Norway using what kind of force of premise to do so
They won't coup Norway directly themselves. They'd back an internal political, military, or legal faction in Norway to get rid of whatever force was opposing them. Literal coups are the final straw, before then they do anything and everything to keep them from getting their hands dirty. All influential intel agencies operate that way (i.e Russia in French Africa for a recent example).
>if so, then just continue NATO like nothing happened?
The U.S did this irl in Greece and Turkey during the Cold War and had Operation Gladio for Italy. They've already done it several times.

>>17967791
Italy has already been answered for you with Operation Gladio, but generally speaking the US would just do what they did anytime there's a government they dislike, and finance pro-democracy groups (anything which opposes US domination is anti-democracy) to take to the streets and protest, mounting resistance against the government until it collapses and a new government falls back in line. The only countries they WON'T do this on are nuclear-armed states where civil conflict is far too risky.

>>17967320
>russia has no business telling european countries who can and who can't join nato
Right, they should ignore the fact that their arch enemy is increasing a military alliance and building military bases closer and closer to its border.
>disregarding that there hasn't been any enlargement for 20 year at that time btw
When did Sweden join NATO?
Also, the US has been arming Ukraine heavily, further ignoring Russia's concerns.
>yeah before it because it's not like ukrs could ever figure out that being poor sucks and perhaps it would be better for them to abandon euroasiatism and rejoin europe instead
It was never about economic policy, rather about the US increasinf its sphere of influence, and at the same decreasing Russia's.

>>17967325
>Putin and his mongols want Europe.
Putin and his mongols want to work together with Europe.
Fixed it.

>>17967374
>Proofs? The Ukrainian opposition instigated a power coup with the help of the unruly population and 1 time sought advice from the american embassy on how to proceed, advice they rejected btw.
Victoria Nuland admitted that it cost only 5 Billion to pull it off.
Actions like this are always supported by foreign intelligence.

>>17967727
>just let Russia do whatever it wants bro
All of the chaos is caused by the world leting the US do what it wants.

>>17967730
>Peacekeeper by keeping Russia in check.
By completely ignoring their concerns for armament in Ukraine and NATO expansion, and thus provoking them into attacking their neighbour? Yeah, worked like a charm.

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In reality the EU has proven to be a net-negative for Europe because it has been easy to subvert by deviant agents (like the Jews) and rival powers (like the Americans) who want to use it as a vessel to subjugate the nations of Europe and prevent them from prospering and becoming great again.

Europe's security needs to be guaranteed and its liberty needs to be secured, but it needs to be done the old reliable way: with a continent-spanning empire. It worked for the Romans, it worked for the Habsburgs, and it would have worked for Napoleon if the British hadn't been determined to undermine him at every turn.

Now, it is clear that a pan-European empire would have to be either French or German in nature, or perhaps Austrian but Austria isn't what it once was. I nominate the French, the Germans have been buckbroken too hard by the Americans and the Soviets in the aftermath of World War 2.

>>17968644
>by completely ignoring their concerns for armament in Ukraine and NATO expansion
The US helped the newly formed Russian federation disarm Ukraine's nuke supply in the 90's, I'd say they did their fair share of disarmament in Ukraine.

>>17968657
>The US helped the newly formed Russian federation disarm Ukraine's nuke supply in the 90's
It's more the Orange revolution and its aftermath where the modern conflict started between the U.S and Russia. In the 90s things were fine because the U.S and Russia compromised that Kuchma would run the show because he'd be a neutral (if highly corrupt) leader compared to the pro-Russia Communists or pro-West Rukh.

>>17968648
France would fit the bill more, because germanistan will be on its way to repeat Hitler's mistakes and not holocaust any kikes.

>>17968638
>When did Sweden join NATO?
last year, which is two years after russians chimp outed
>It was never about economic policy
for all the ukrainians on maidan it was all about economic policies, that's why they called it 'revolution of DIGNITY'

>>17968644
>Yeah, worked like a charm
blame obongo for resetting relations with russia after georgian war insted of tardwrangling russians

>>17968667
>France would fit the bill more
Problem is France is the most unstable politically of all the major European powers, I mean do you seriously think Macron's regime is going to survive after his term is up?

>>17968691
macron's the president of france, bayrou is the pm

>>17968697
>macron's the president of france
Yeah and his term is up in 2027 when he's been the personality, face, and mastermind of the French establishment for 10 years. His PMs have been a revolving door no diffferent than any other French president in the Fifth Republic; and I very highly doubt his most widely cited successor Phillippe is going to stand a chance against Bardella.

>>17968717
and i doubted whether macron did against mlp and yet here we are

>>17968691
>france is the most unstable politically
That's a good thing. Let some proper nationalists take root in there with pan-european tendencies and show germanistan how it's done.

>>17968723
>here we are
Even if Phillippe does eke out a win he's still going to have to deal with a completely broken congress that could be completely different by the time we get to 2027. Socialists and commies won't be able to hold together forever, and the Gaullists will completely disappear by then too.

>>17968727
>proper nationalists with pan-european tendencies
>RN under Le Pen/Bardella
LMAO, maybe under Jean but they're a typical establishment "populist" movement no different than the Trump Republicans.

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>>17968733
Why do you think I implied voting? It doesn't do shit.

>>17968736
>Why do you think I implied voting?
Ah, I see. I thought you were given we were talking about elections.

>>17967848
And yet France left multiple times and America never invaded France you snownigger

>>17967862
Still never invaded and murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians like the mindless savage Russian

>>17968971
Because France has nukes you stupid cunt

>>17968973
You unfamiliar with Bush II's Iraq War? The USA and their "coalition of the willing" killed up to a million people with that war of aggression. The US is not the "good guys", they are the terrorists. Russia is not "good guys" either. People who think that you have to like one to dislike the other (or both) are the problem, like: >>17967499

>>17969242
>USA did bad so if you say russia did bad then you're a hecking hypocrite
Everyone acknowledges and knows Bush era USA was stupidly aggressive, and most of the USA was aware of that and acknowledged their mistake, Russia still refuses to admit to anything.

>>17969242
Iraq wasn't part of NATO.
Your entire logic is nothing but gibberish and you take completely unrelated bullshit and fabricated scenarios to paint USA as some sort of occupation force that her allies fear, which is not only not true but its downright autism.

Norway doesn't fear an American backed coup if they wanted to learn NATO, nor have they ever considered this a threat because if this was the case we would have heard about it. It's never a factor to consider for any NATO member that USA might strike them if they want to go a seperate way. There isn't even a fringe group in Norway of that caliber aligned with USA that could or would topple the government. You're literally insane for even believing your own bullshit. Shut the fuck up.

>>17968673
>for all the ukrainians on maidan it was all about economic policies, that's why they called it 'revolution of DIGNITY'
Who cares about that? The local population always acts as useful idiots in those revolutions. The economic aspect is a good excuse - for the instigators.

>>17969242
Except I can say "Bush did bad in Iraq" and not get kidnapped by the state like in Russia. Millions protested and bar none were arrested, unlike Russia

>>17969242
>killed up to a million people with that war of aggression
Source?

>>17966210
seconding sauce

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>>17969746
>Source
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians
Academic consensus is that the GWOT killed ~4 to 5 million people since 2001 with ten percent of those being direct deaths, far more than any other major war of the millennium so far.
>>17969740
>Except I can say "Bush did bad in Iraq" and not get kidnapped by the state like in Russia
For sure, you just won't get far politically here if you try to run for office and ascend any further beyond HoR level. Both Trump and Biden supported the Iraq War back in the day btw, and both Trump and Obama for all their posturing dramatically escalated U.S involvement in the Middle East during their presidencies despite it being extremely unpopular with the American public.
>>17969566
>Norway doesn't fear an American backed coup if they wanted to learn NATO
Gladio has been posted several times ITT retard, the reason no European politician runs on leaving NATO is because of the chilling effect Five Eyes intel agencies have over national politics in NATO countries. It's the same reason why Romania never left the Warsaw Pact despite Ceaușescu routinely posturing himself as an anti-Soviet leader.

>>17968643
>chaos
Russia broke the longest peace Europe had since WWII

>>17970210
>Russia broke the longest peace Europe had since WWII
That was Yugoslavia's collapse retard

>>17966337
the most radical and ideologically driven country in West Asia also has the highest HDI.

>>17970230
Civilized Europe. Happy?

>>17970115
>including indirect deaths
>Including the entire GWOT
Cool goal post moving retard. Want to know a real fact, the Soviets murdered almost 2 million civilians in their single decade in Afghanistan vs America's sub-30,000 civilian deaths in their 2 decades.
Yes that is 2 million the Soviets directly killed not including indirect deaths. Disingenuous faggot.

>>17970386
>Civilized Europe.
>Russia and Ukraine
>>17970398
>the Soviets murdered almost 2 million civilians in their single decade in Afghanistan
As opposed to the similar numbers the U.S racked up in Vietnam in the same decade, or in Korea 30 years before?

>>17966271
No, and goreleaf drive awaits you.
*Verification not required.

>>17966642
Russia if they were more competent.

>>17970407
It is one thing for a corrupt country like Ukraine to try and fix their problems only to be punished for trying to better themselves by Russia out of pure jealousy
.

>>17970407
>similar numbers the U.S racked up in Vietnam
Lmao.

>>17966658
US just threatened to live earlier this year and everyone panicked at EU, has Russia ever managed that? To be so good people worldwide felt betrayed when you decided it was too much for you to bear?

>>17970459
>lmao
How is that a silly thing to say?
>>17970432
>try and fix their problems
>pure jealousy
It has nothing to do with any gay narrative like that, it's simply imperial competition between a pair of major powers over an unresolved flashpoint.

>>17966337
A

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>>17970469
>US just threatened to live earlier this year and everyone panicked at EU
Because all of the European "leaders" are a bunch of pussies. Femoids all around, without any vision or pragmatic and analytical thinking.
Normal leaders would recognize the situation (that they're being played by the burgers) and normalized relations with Ruskies.
Both our continents are going downhill - EU because of gigantic incompetence, and the US because their economy is falling apart (>>17966271 ).

Ahem

Total Vatnik Death