>>17974261
Job had everything because he was extremely rigtheous and God showered him with gifts and blessings because of it.

Today we are suffering and have nothing because we are evil, love wickedness and hate God. If you put effort into being righteous and start to hate and reject evil and love God then God will bless you.

All good things God has reserved for the rigtheous.

Job said:
I am desperate because
God All-Powerful refuses
to do what is right.
As surely as God lives,
and while he gives me breath,
I will tell only the truth.
Until the day I die,
I will refuse to do wrong
by saying you are right,
because each day my conscience
agrees that I am innocent.

I pray that my enemies
will suffer no less
than the wicked.
Such people are hopeless,
and God All-Powerful
will cut them down,
without listening
when they beg for mercy.
And that is what God should do,
because they don't like him
or ever pray.
Now I will explain in detail
what God All-Powerful does.
All of you have seen these things
for yourselves.
So you have no excuse.

Here is how God All-Powerful
treats those who are wicked
and brutal.
They may have many children,
but most of them will go hungry
or suffer a violent death.
Others will die of disease,
and their widows
won't be able to weep.
The wicked may collect riches
and clothes in abundance
as easily as clay.
But God's people will wear
clothes taken from them
and divide up their riches.
No homes built by the wicked
will outlast a cocoon
or a shack.
Those sinners may go to bed rich,
but they will wake up poor.
Terror will strike at night
like a flood or a storm.
Then a scorching wind
will sweep them away
without showing mercy,
as they try to escape.
At last, the wind will celebrate
because they are gone.

>>17974303
So he righteous from birth and fully decided to be such? Mind explaining how that works?
>reject evil and love God then God will bless you
Yet in reality the evil people are those who live a good life.

>>17974308
What are you even trying to say?

>>17974309
What is stopping you from trying to be rigtheous right now?

>>17974361
So you can't answer the questions?
>What is stopping you from trying to be rigtheous right now?
Well, clearly not myself as it seems people are predetermined to be such.

>>17974368
Rigtheousness is a choice. You could read the law of God right now, learn what rigtheousness is and obey it. Nothing is stopping you but yourself.

>>17974468
So you can answer the questions?

>>17974481
Rigtheousness is a choice, not something you're chosen to have pre birth. You might have been lucky to be born in a rigtheous household who taught yo righteousness or you might have been born in an unrighteous home, yet still as soon as you realize you are unirgtheous you can choose to turn away from unrighteousness and start doing what is rigtheous. Then the blessings of God reserved for the righteous will fall on you. Likely not before some trials and chastisements as penitence for your sins and refinement

>>17974615
>not something you're chosen to have pre birth
Biological determinism disproves that.
>or you might have been born in an unrighteous home
And that can stay with you for life.
>you can choose to turn away from unrighteousness and start doing what is rigtheous
Not really, people with less developed prefrontal cortex lack the impulse control to do that and always relapse. And that's without considering the modern world like in the first post.
>reserved for the righteous will fall on you. Likely not before some trials and chastisements as penitence for your sins and refinement
There are people who don't have to suffer and still live a great life and then there are such that only suffer and have no redemption for it.

>>17974656
>Biological determinism disproves that.
There is no biological unrighteousness.

>And that can stay with you for life.
And you can still choose to do right. You think suffering gives you the right to be evil, it doesn't.

>Not really, people with less developed prefrontal cortex lack the impulse control to do that and always relapse. And that's without considering the modern world like in the first post.

A man who fails at trying to be righteous will be judged more mercifully than the one who doesn't try at all.

If God sees that you hate doing unrighteousness and you try really hard not to do it and still being unable to control your impulses and repent having done it then you will be counted as rigtheous.

>There are people who don't have to suffer and still live a great life and then there are such that only suffer and have no redemption for it.

Good people are blessed by God, evil people are cursed. Some evil people enjoy of good things through their evil and crime and some good never receive their good reward. In the last day justice will be done to them.

>>17974673
>biological unrighteousness
>Yes, psychopathy has significant biological underpinnings, including genetic factors and neurobiological differences in brain structure and function, particularly in regions related to emotional processing and impulse control.
>And you can still choose to do right
Not really, as we can see.
>than the one who doesn't try at all
What if he fails to try at all? That's a contradiction.
>and you try really hard not to
He clearly won't be able to since he's impulsive, as said already.
>evil people are cursed
Yet we see the opposite.
>and some good never receive their good reward. In the last day justice will be done to them.
So you contradict yourself as then it means that they are not blessed...

>>17974688
There's no such thing as psychopathy. Some people have evil demons in them for their sins and the sins of their ancestors.

>He clearly won't be able to since he's impulsive, as said already.
Some people struggle with their impulses, others simply embrace them.

>So you contradict yourself as then it means that they are not blessed...

Some of the righteous are selected for high offices and so go through great testings in life.

Job never had a smartphone, computer, internet, likely not even running water. You live better than a king of ye olden days.

But Job is allegory for the seemingly capricious whims of the Jewish conception of God. It seems to them that he gives and takes without reason, see the story of Abraham and Isaac. But this is just the working of karma or fate if you prefer that term.

>>17974723
>There's no such thing as psychopathy
Okay then, feel free to disprove biology.
>Some people struggle with their impulses, others simply embrace them.
Which could be again a genetic or an environmental thing.
>so go through great testings in life
Proof?
>>17974741
>You live better than a king of ye olden days.
That's not true. Today people are sicker, eat fake food, have worse quality of air and environment in general, will never have a loving family and will just suffer through their whole life.

>>>17974741.
>That's not true. Today people [...] will just suffer through their whole life.
Ah, you are close to understanding the first Noble Truth of Buddhism. But people have been suffering, or to use a bit better translation of dukkha, feeling unsatisfied since time immemorial.

>>17974796
Not really, the anxiety and depression people have today would have been considered clinically insane even less than a century ago. Yes, they had other problems but as we can see today is getting to a point where the civilizations can't even be sustained anymore.

>>17974778
>Which could be again a genetic or an environmental thing.
Not true. That is modern satanic psychology mumbo jumbo. Man's wisdom is Foolishness to the All Knowing. People are in charges of their will. If it was impossible for them to repent and turn to God he wouldn't be asked by them to do so, who is the wisest one in the universe.

>Proof?
Proof of what? Like gold is refined by the flaming fires of a furnest, so is the soul refined and made pure in suffering.

There are some God has destined to be very pure and so they must endure much refinement, but in the end they will be the most splendorous ones out of all of us and will receive must glory and honor.

>>17974822
>psychology mumbo jumbo
So then you should be able to easily disprove biology.
>has destined
Ah, so you admit that everything is predetermined. Then what was the point for all the coping and how does that contradiction explain all the other things you said?

>>17974828
>Ah, so you admit that everything is predetermined.
No. These are special people who are holy. If everything was predetermined God woudlnt have asked his time creating the Bible to teach us how to be righteous.

It's just that very few actually choose to do it.

I like Camus' solution the best: rebel against despair to give life dignity.

>>17974900
So you deny God's Sovereignty?

At least Reformed and Islamic theology take the idea of an omnipotent god seriously.

>>17974261
Enjoy Hell, incel.

>>17975306
>So
Cringe.
>you deny God's Sovereignty?
Yes. "God's Sovereignty" is a made up idea in your worthless brain which is not Biblical.

>>17974778
>That's not true. Today people are sicker, eat fake food, have worse quality of air and environment in general, will never have a loving family and will just suffer through their whole life.
Were living in the days of tribulations. Suffering is like a furnace that refined and purifies gold. We suffer way less than we deserve but many will not accept that, they become proud and curse God for their suffering and take refuge in evil to escape the suffering they deserve and enjoy ill gotten profits .

But God allows this because a small group of people will instead humble before their suffering, admit they deserve it and seek God's mercy. These people will end up becoming like fine gold. So pure and so precious that they are priceless to God.

One of them is worth more to God than the other billions combined. To them God will give everything. Even the angels and the holy ones will bow down to them, they will be holy and shine brighter than the stars and they will be constantly praised and admired by the children of heaven and God will make them the example of rigtheousness. A rigtheousness so splendorous it can be seen from galaxies away. Their words will be cherished and obeyed. They will be a fountain of wisdom to all the people. Their joy will be endless and nothing will shake them.

God will give them exceptional glory and reveal to them all the secrets and mysteries of the universe. They will be able to see anyone and anything at any time and nothing will be hidden from their eyes. Everyone will be naked before them. They will know everything and will have the authority to judge, punish and reward.

They will have a name that is greater than sons and daughters of God and only they will know it.

All good things, joys and pleasures that have ever been conceived by the most amazing and incredible being alive, the Lord Most High, have been prepared and reserved to be given to those who love God despite their suffering to enjoy forever without end.

>>17975358
Your God is not omnipotent? Why would you worship such a being?

>>17975407
Sorry, I don't debate retards.

>>17975430
Why are you here then? You can't defend your argument against "retards"?

>>17974900
>These are special people
So most other people aren't? No surprise they sin so much...
>>17974975
When he wrote that there was nothing to complain about.
>>17975309
So with that judging are you going to heaven?
>>17975368
>Suffering is like a furnace that refined and purifies gold
Nope, following that logic the people from the third world would all be saints. In reality they do unspeakable things.
>will give them exceptional glory
And what about the people who want to live normal, humble lives? They can't have that, instead they have to accept their suffering? Very strange.

>>17974303
>All good things God has reserved for the rigtheous.

Like all those actors, politicians, sports players and musicians??? They sooo rightous

Blow it out your ass anon, your so fucking full of shit I can smell it from here

Bump!

>>17975650
>So most other people aren't? No surprise they sin so much
No. Be bot proud and humbly accept that there are many people more honorable than you and me.

>Nope, following that logic the people from the third world would all be saints. In reality they do unspeakable things.

Suffering exist as a punishment to evil. Those who do evil deserve to be punished. When faced with the punishment they deserve most proudly keep doing evil and hating God and so keep suffering.

Those who who heed sufferings earnings and humble before it, admit they deserve it and then turn to rigtheousness and love God, eventually stop suffering and God's blessings start falling on them instead. Those people are very few, but this whole world was created for the sake of finding them because they are very precious to God.

Everyone who does what is rigtheous is special to God.

Jesus spent countless hours giving sermons teaching people how to be rigtheous, and while billions claim to believe in him, those who actually listen to his words and obey them are very few.

>>17975658
>Like all those actors, politicians, sports players and musicians??? They sooo rightous
Why? All they have is money. If money is your treasure then no wonder you don't love God. God has treasures way greater than money and sex.

>>17976799
Who are these people you're talking about, let's see them.
>>17976803
Nope, they live better than everyone else and if they have done something wrong they can just repent and have no resentment unlike the people who suffered all their life and won't be able to believe sincerely.

>>17976820
>Who are these people you're talking about, let's see them.

You will see them in the last day, you won't be able to miss them because they will shine brighter than stars.

>Nope, they live better than everyone else and if they have done something wrong they can just repent and have no resentment unlike the people who suffered all their life and won't be able to believe sincerely.

If I was offered the life of Jeff bezos until I'm 120 years old or feel the holy spirit again for just 10 minutes I would choose the holy spirit. And that is just 10 minutes, imagine spending an eternity feeling like that. I would never get tired of it.

You would be surprised to know that the most sincere believers were poor and needy and went through great trials and tribulations and much testing and were still found pure in their love for God.

Repentance is a process that requires lots of sincere tears and heartaches and shame of what you have done. Most rich people never think of repenting until it's too late.

>>17976820
>Who are these people you're talking about, let's see them.

and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: Who love God and loved neither gold nor silver nor any of the good things which are in the world, but gave over their bodies to torture. Who, since they came into being, longed not after earthly food, but regarded everything as a passing breath, and lived accordingly, and the Lord tried them much, and their spirits were 10 found pure so that they should bless His name. And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame, 11 yet they blessed Me.

>>17977043
>>17977061
So you don't even have examples of them?!?

>>17977092
On earth they are nobodies. You can be one of them, all you have to do is love God regardless of anything. Their fame is in heaven. Angels and spirits are diehard fans of them. They are more than celebrity in the heavenly realm.

>>17977125
So you have no proof.

>>17977128
Proof that good people will be rewarded? I have felt the holy Spirit, I have no reason to doubt a single word from God's mouth

>>17977266
So you have no argument.

>>17975650
Quite acting like a Stoic.
St. Thérèse of Lisieux and many Orthodox priests have said that holiness can be found in ordinary humble lives. However, obviously people like Christian martyrs are going to be rewarded for their suffering.

>>17974261
>So Job had everything
Yes and he also lost everything including his health. He still maintained his faith. So I'm not sure any comparison of fairness or the conduct holds water...

>>17975650
>So with that judging are you going to heaven?
Yes. Have fun burning.

>>17977431
So you can't even read and comprehend that people in fact can't live normal, humble lives.
>>17977444
And then got them back again in the end.
>>17977617
How do you know that?

Because it's demiurge loosh farm bullshit

They couldn't maintain the lie that jewgod rewards you for being good so now they say suffering is good for you lmao even though jewgod was fine to display that showering blessing meant favor for the first 2000 years of his scam

>>17974303
>All good things God has reserved for the rigtheous.
You idiot, Job literally refutes your argument, do you even read the Book you keep quoting like a parrot?

Bump!

>>17977871
>And then got them back again in the end.
Your point being? You think an average man today would pull off the same thing?

>>17978757
>Your point being?
That most don't get even tenth of that today, as the title says yet are expected to be as devoted.
>You think an average man today would pull off the same thing?
How do you know they won't considering they never had the chance?!? Notice how people stopped believing when big families stopped being normal?

>>17978804
>That most don't get even tenth of that today, as the title says yet are expected to be as devoted.
And again, most didn't lose the tenth of what he did. You're evaluating the story as though Job's faith relies on him having things. It's the exact opposite. Job lost it all and maintained his faith. People today lose faith over way less.

>>17978811
>most didn't lose the tenth of what he did
That's not true and I explained that in my very first post, you're being dishonest as expected.
>It's the exact opposite
Nope, it's literally about him having these things.
>People today lose faith over way less.
Because they have less, a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck.

>>17978804
Don't be annoyed by anyone
who does wrong,
and don't envy them.
They will soon disappear
like grass without rain.

Trust the Lord and live right!
The land will be yours,
and you will be safe.
Do what the Lord wants,
and he will give you
your heart's desire.

Let the Lord lead you
and trust him to help.
Then it will be as clear
as the noonday sun
that you were right.

Be patient and trust the Lord.
Don't let it bother you
when all goes well for those
who do sinful things.
Don't be angry or furious.
Anger can lead to sin.
All sinners will disappear,
but if you trust the Lord,
the land will be yours.

Sinners will soon disappear,
never to be found,
but the poor will take the land
and enjoy a big harvest.

Merciless people make plots
against good people
and snarl like animals,
but the Lord laughs and knows
their time is coming soon.
The wicked kill with swords
and shoot arrows to murder
the poor and the needy
and all who do right.
But they will be killed
by their own swords,
and their arrows
will be broken.

It is better to live right
and be poor
than to be sinful and rich.
The wicked will lose all
of their power,
but the Lord gives strength
to everyone who is good.

Those who obey the Lord
are daily in his care,
and what he has given them
will be theirs forever.
They won't be in trouble
when times are bad,
and they will have plenty
when food is scarce.

>>17978814
My brother, if you think your (or an average person's) losses are comparable to Job's then you just did not read his story carefully.
>it's literally about him having these things.
About losing them. Again, it seems you did not read the story.
>>People today lose faith over way less.
>Because they have less
And?

Again, you're living "paycheck to paycheck" and then you hear about a guy who lied abandoned in a ditch with his skin infested, mourning his children and you response is "yeah well at least he had kids, myself I gotta eat ramen....". This is not a healthy response. Let me ask you this: do you think if you became wealthy for a day, your faith would multiply? If so, I can borrow you some money for a day.

>>17978819
I don't see what that proves.

>>17978826
>losses are comparable to Job's then you just did not read his story carefully.
So you think that you would fare better if you were in the position?
>About losing them
>became wealthy for a day
Yet he had them for a significant amount of time as in, most of his life.

>>17978837
>So you think that you would fare better if you were in the position?
If I were in Job's position? No, I think the moment my family would've died, I would probably have a crisis so massive that my faith would be at risk.
>Yet he had them for a significant amount of time as in, most of his life.
You didn't answer the question. And you gracefully skipped over "Yeah he's infected in a ditch mourning his kids but I gotta eat ramen dude, how should I have faith"

>>17978852
No, in the position of the people I talked about.
>You didn't answer the question
What didn't I answer exactly? You're being dishonest not mentioning that he lived for most of his life that way.
>Yeah he's
More than ever do people have all kinds of physical and mental illnesses(not that they are not the same thing).

>>17978863
>No, in the position of the people I talked about.
Who knows? I lived paycheck to paycheck post-college and didn't feel it affected my faith a whole lot. Which is why I find your proposition so strange that someone living in luxury would naturally have better faith. We empirically find the exact opposite.
>>You didn't answer the question
>What didn't I answer exactly?
Whether a loan would multiply your faith. That's the thing you keep falling back on. That money somehow produces faith. Tell me more.
>More than ever do people have all kinds of physical and mental illnesses(not that they are not the same thing).
More than ever? You think now that we eradicated a long line of diseases and found treatment for hundreds more people are ... more ill than ever? Anon, what the fuck are you talking about? What illnesses do you have?

>>17978867
>Who knows?
Once again you dishonestly answer the question. Read my very first post that the thread begins with.
>Whether a loan would multiply your faith.
Dishonest again. He lived most of his life that way and still got it back in the end. He lived better than most people even if he didn't get them back in the end.
>More than ever?
Yes.
>more ill than ever
Yes, diseases that were only for very old people are now normal for everyone. Most people are severely malnourished, depressed etc.

>>17978872
>>Who knows?
>Once again you dishonestly answer the question.
I'm afraid this thread isn't falling for the tactic of calling answers dishonest until they sound the way you like them. I brought up the years of my life when I lived what you describe. If that's not honest enough, so be it. Be mad about it.
>>Whether a loan would multiply your faith.
>Dishonest again.
Didn't answer again. This is gold.
>More diseases are cured then ever yet more people are ill than ever
No.
>Most people are severely malnourished, depressed etc.
No.


Since you seem to have a disease yourself I'll make responding to this post as simple as possible:

PLEASE TELL ME HOW MONEY PRODUCES FAITH

>>17978879
>calling answers dishonest
Because you're. You quote a single thing and that's it. You mention about the paycheck to paycheck part and nothing else, how convenient. And as you said
>lived
Meanwhile most still have to.
>Didn't answer again.
But I did. If most people lived like him they would be more faithful. You said only for a day because you're dishonest.
>More diseases are cured then ever
Nope, more people have cancers, heart problems and all kind of diseases than ever.
>No.
Yep, another dishonest reply. Maybe this sounded like a proof in your mind.
>MONEY
Where did anyone say anything about money, Mr. Dishonesty? We are talking about normal stability and family. But of course, your true demonic self can't admit that.

>>17978887
>If most people lived like him they would be more faithful.
How? Tell me more. The data doesn't check out.

>>17978890
>How?
Because they would have things that make life worth living.

>>17978900
How does that produce faith in God? Returning to money (the thing Job had that you wondered how it's relevant) - many people think products and purchase power make life worth living. Those people don't display more faith than poor people. Quite on the contrary. Your thesis fails here. So I am asking you to present a case where your thesis does not fail.

>>17978904
>How does that produce faith in God?
By showing that they are loved.
>the thing Job had
P R O O F! I don't think there's a single quote that talked about him having money. You know that as well.
>many people think products and purchase power make life worth living
Because of the world they live in. When people had big families people had other values. Once again, you're being dishonest, of course.

>>17978912
Again, I am asking you to present a case where your thesis does not fail.

>>17978927
>here your thesis does not fail.
The Amish.

>>17978928
If the closest real life thing to your understanding of Job you could name are the Amish then I think this discussion is mostly pointless. Nobody on this site will diagnose your misunderstandings of Job, challenge them and set them straight within the span of one thread. Seeing that your misunderstanding is so deep you doubt he had money and you keep referring to his re-gaining of what he had (something he did not know was going to happen, so it could not have built his faith), your understanding of the story is just too far off. Call me dishonest and demand attention from someone else.

>>17978950
But of course, you have no arguments after all. No surprise that more and more people become "heathens". I'm sure it's their fault and not yours. All these emotions and zero reason.

>>17978956
No it's obviously the fault of God for not giving them seven thousand sheep (which btw doesn't convert to money in any way). How else would they know they're loved?

>>17978965
Yep, for some reason He wouldn't give them even one tenth of that but of course your dishonesty prevents you from admitting that. Imagine admitting that you're wrong, impossible.

>>17978968
I totally agree. Measly seventy sheep would produce so much faith in me somehow!! GOD WHY DO YOU TEST ME THIS MUCH. This is obviously worse than having your family die, no question about it.

>>17978980
It makes sense that you would laugh at other people's needs because you don't care about them, really.

>>17978994
What are you talking about ? I care about people. By the way fuck that poor infected guy lying in a ditch, he was rich at some point. Anyway, back to the real tragedy - I don't have seventy sheep and I am asked to have faith.

>>17978999
>I care about people
You clearly don't otherwise you would never say the things you did.
>By the way
Is he the only person that had something similar happen to him? And if it's relative to what he had how many more people would that be?

>>17977871
You're literally blind if you can't see the fact that the Bible has said there is holiness in ordinary living countless times.

>>17979032
>ordinary living
Which as said countless time, is impossible anymore.

>>17979037
>is impossible
It isn’t. You having a cell phone disproves that immediately.

>>17979059
Ah yes, another pointless and vague reply.

>>17979065
You mean just like how saying it is 100% impossible to have a normal life now?>>17979037

>>17979457
I explained exactly why, you have yet to do even the minimum.

>>17979460
Millions can comfortably live in a home and have basic needs covered. They aren't living normal lives because...reasons?

>>17979474
Thanks, because of dishonest people like you people are realizing that you don't care about them at all.

>>17979491
Cool projection. Why do you deny reality that it is possible to live a normal life?

>>17979524
What am I projecting? You can't even explain why I'm wrong.
>Why do you deny reality that it is possible to live a normal life?
Because most people will never own a house and have a family.

>>17979535
>most people
So you are claiming over 50% of the entire worlds population will never have a family or shelter in some form? Can you show me proof to back up your claim?

>>17979535
there has never been a time in human history where home ownership rates have even come close to approaching a majority. the highest we've ever got in the US was around 65%

https://www.huduser.gov/periodicals/ushmc/summer94/summer94.html
https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dec/coh-owner.html
https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/learning-history-homeownership-rate

I'm kinda sick of having to exist in a world with so many passionately illiterate retards.

>>17974261
God isn't a genie, dumbass. Also the fact that women and minorities have too many rights, being that many bear the mark of Cain, is why men have less these days. That shouldn't affect your faith.

>>17979541
>research from the Pew Research Center found that 63% of men under 30 are single
>>17979541
>>17979550
>No, most young adults cannot afford a home due to high property prices, stagnant wages, and significant student loan debt, leading to record-low first-time homeownership rates. While individual circumstances vary, the overall affordability crisis is making homeownership a difficult, if not impossible, goal for the majority of the younger generation in many countries

>>17979576
>not just a passionately illiterate retard, but also a confirmation bias abusing speed reader
holy FUCK i wish we could just line retards up and shoot them

>>17979580
How Christian of you!

>>17979535
>What am I projecting?
How does me stating a fact that people live normal lives = I do not care about people? Show me your reasoning and train of thought retard.

>>17979825
>I do not care about people
Because you're lying. You're not being sincere.

>>17979829
How am I lying? You are denying reality!

>>17979838
I literally posted you a research and reasoning...

Bump!

>>17974261
Surprised no one answered your question as of 100 posts. Jesus already explained this with the parable of the vineyard workers. The first shall be the last and the last shall be the first.

>>17981070
>parable of the vineyard workers. The first shall be the last and the last shall be the first.
>At the end of the day, he pays everyone the same amount, which angers the workers hired early, who feel their long hours are undervalued. The parable teaches that God's grace is generous and not bound by human standards of fairness
Maybe I should create a different thread about this contradiction too.

>>17981075
No contradiction, you live in bad times and as such the expectations levied upon you are much lower then that of previous times, if you act righteously even in your worse state your reward will be just as great, if not greater in comparison to that of Job's.

>>17981085

Hence the "first being the last, and the last being the first"

>>17981085
There's nothing like that said in the parable, read my reply again. Also
>as such the expectations levied upon you are much lower
As we can see, that's the opposite, read my very first post.

>>17981090
It's the very fact that you are living in bad times, as you indicate many men are nowadays (I agree) that makes it so that the expectations upon you are much lower. People lose faith when things are good for long periods of time and they become complacent. Arguably all of history has been on average trending towards worse and worse times, we are living in the local minima of a global minima right now, and it's precisely for this reason that we are so blessed, because we are as of right now "the last", and as the parable shows, it is "the last" chronologically speaking that will be the first in line in terms of salvation. Desert fathers had writings about this as well, how in the future things would be so bad that people would be saved for far less then what they themselves as extreme ascetics had to go through. To look to Job and lament is folly, you should be rejoicing.

>>17981105
>for long periods of time and they become complacent
That's not true, Christianity was popular when big families were a thing. Nowadays people have no reason to believe as we can see otherwise they would. Just think about it, what should they be grateful about. We both know the answer, it's nothing.

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>>17981117
>"That's not true, Christianity was popular when big families were a thing"
There is a lag between the symptoms and the causes.

>"Nowadays people have no reason to believe as we can see otherwise they would"
Nowadays people are believing more and more, precisely because of how bad things have gotten due to previous and current disbelief.

>"Just think about it, what should they be grateful about. We both know the answer, it's nothing."
Pic related and quote from St. Seraphim of Sarov: "Acquire The Spirit of Peace and thousands around you will be saved"

>>17981124
>There is a lag between the symptoms and the causes.
Is the lag the lack of it? You seem kind of dishonest.
>Nowadays people are believing more and more
That's not true at all unless you meant that for paganism. Yes, there was a quick popularity of Christianity and especially the Orthodox variety but that was it. It's now getting more and more criticized but not in the atheistic kind of way.
>Acquire The Spirit of Peace and thousands around you will be saved
Yes, and supposedly to do that you have to go to a monastery, suffer all your life and don't live around the average people.

>>17981105
I look at the Book of Job and see YHWH placing bets with the devil. Sounds like they are more friends than enemies.

>>17977884
How many of you enlightened niggas have actually read Job and Jung's "Answer to Job"? Reading these other retard's """theology""" is only good for a laugh. But you have potential you're running from imo.

>>17981128
>"Is the lag the lack of it? You seem kind of dishonest."
No clue what this means. My original point was that good times make people turn away from religion, this is attested throughout the entire old testament multiple times in multiple different amplitudes and varieties, it's a central trope. You don't even have to be religious to understand this, from a secular perspective it faollows just as well.

>"It's now getting more and more criticized but not in the atheistic kind of way"
I disagree with the idea that people are not believing more and more, I don't think either you or I will convince eachother on that matter however, I'm far more interested in what you mean by criticism of Christianity from a non atheistic point, you surely don't mean islamic criticism do you?

>"Yes, and supposedly to do that you have to go to a monastery, suffer all your life and don't live around the average people."
I'm sorry but you missed the point of the quote, and my previous reference to the desert fathers entirely. Perhaps on purpose. You don't even seem to believe in what you wrote yourself if I may say so harshly, given your use of the word "supposedly". Who is supposing? When did I suppose that acquiring The Spirit of Peace would require you personally to go to a monastery, suffer your entire life, and seclude yourself from so called "average people". If anything I said the exact opposite.

>>17981159
>No clue what this means
That the lag happened when the good times ended, how convenient.
>, it's a central trope. You don't even have to be religious to understand this, from a secular perspective it faollows just as well.
Which is not true in the modern history otherwise Christianity wouldn't have been popular for so long.
>you surely don't mean islamic criticism do you?
No, even just looking at it's state today and the origin of it is enough for many people now.
>If anything I said the exact opposite.
You just posted a quote, you said nothing about how to acquire it and we all know what you will be told if asked. If it was that simple you will be seeing so many people having it.

>>17981170
>"That the lag happened when the good times ended, how convenient."
Yes, certain trends take generations to unfold and you simply cannot predict the future. Could the founding fathers have predicted that there idealogy would eventually lead to drag queen story hour? Just as spoiled generations cause bad times far after they are gone, so do rough generations create good times far after they are gone. The lag is not "convenient", it is evident.

>"Which is not true in the modern history otherwise Christianity wouldn't have been popular for so long."
Why not? Who is to say that the length of the wave should have been X long instead of Y long when we don't know the underlying function? I'd argue we barely know about faith in modern history in regards to different times and places with enough certainty.

>"No, even just looking at it's state today and the origin of it is enough for many people now"
Elaborate, extremely vague phrasing to something which initially sounded interesting.

>"you said nothing about how to acquire it and we all know what you will be told if asked"
>>"Desert fathers had writings about this as well, how in the future things would be so bad that people would be saved for far less then what they themselves as extreme ascetics had to go through."
>>"would be saved for far less then what they themselves as extreme ascetics had to go through"

>"If it was that simple you will be seeing so many people having it."
I do see them, you either do not, or you do see it but believe it to be something else, because of the hardness of your heart. Just as the pharisees either could not see Jesus's miracles, or they saw them and attributed them to demons and equated them with law breaking threats to their own selves.

>>17981193
>certain trends take generations to unfold
So you're being dishonest again without any proof at all for your claims.
>Could the founding fathers have predicted that there idealogy would eventually lead to drag queen story hour
They should have, after all what they did was not Christian or natural at all. It's pretty easy to predict outcome.
>? Who is to say that the length of the wave should have been X long instead of Y long when we don't know the underlying function?
So you're trying to say that Christianity has not be popular for a long time? I can't even comprehend what that cope is supposed to mean.
>extremely vague phrasing
No, it's pretty clear. People see that they are not loved and the origin of that belief is foreign, it's that simple.
>would be saved for far less then what they themselves as extreme ascetics had to go through
So what exactly do you have to do acquire it, again? I see people who are trying pretty hard to be Christians and definitely don't have it.
>you either do not
So it's my fault that I were made to not see them? What?
>because of the hardness of your heart
How do you know that?

>>17981216
>"So you're being dishonest again without any proof at all for your claims."
Neither of us have proof for our claims, I'm just stating the obvious that certain concrete things are beyond our perception, especially when it comes to time.

>"They should have, after all what they did was not Christian or natural at all. It's pretty easy to predict outcome."
Yet they did not, despite how easy it allegedly is. I wouldin't think myself any wiser then they, would you?

>"People see that they are not loved and the origin of that belief is foreign"
Yes, your belief is foreign.

>"So what exactly do you have to do acquire it, again? I see people who are trying pretty hard to be Christians and definitely don't have it."
Uphold the commandments, go to an Orthodox church, attend divine litturgy, become a part of the Church, find a spiritual father, pray, fast, and partake in the sacraments. Love and you will be loved. It's a continual process and looking at other Christians critically will fool you.

>"So it's my fault that I were made to not see them? What?"
Not your fault, but it may be your fate, what of it? If you live your life righteously irregardless of what you see in others, you will be rewarded ever more. Far more then someone like me who does see such changes in people.

>"How do you know that?"
I don't, forgive me for saying it.

>>17981295
>Neither of us have proof for our claims
But I did already, even an actual research.
>Yet they did not
Because that was supposed to happen.
>Yes, your belief is foreign.
What do you mean?
>Uphold the commandments
Yep, do all these things that pretty much nobody does outside of monasteries. I knew you were just baiting all along.
>but it may be your fate
What kind of a cope is that? So it's not my fault but I will be forced to sin anyway so in the end I will be in the wrong.

>>17981295
>schismatic whose main Patriarch bows to Turkish authorities
Was it worth it over the filioque?