If Carthage won the war against Rome and became the one hegemon of the Mediterranean would they still fellate the Hellenic culture and adopt it more or less?
>>17974636Seeing how easy was the hellenization of Phoenicia, I think the same could have happened in Carthage.
>>17974636What would've happened, is that they would've waged herem warfare on whiteoids and replaced R1b in Southern Europe with their E-M81 DNA, like they did to E-M78, T and G in North Africa. >fellate the Hellenic Never happened.Greek adopted Carthaginian culture, the alphabet being merry the tip of the iceberg.
>>17974636Carthage ran on a different mode. They occupied coastal enclaves not big chunks of land.
>>17974636What even is Carthaginian culture? They dont even have their own aesthetics like says the Greeks, Egyptians, Persians, etc.
It's impressive how strong Phoenician influence on the Greeks was. They basically taught them everything: farming, masonry, smithing, painting, sculpture, writing, carpentry, sewing. Without them, the Greeks would still be grunting and flinging filth at each other like the savages up north.>>17974651>merry merely*
They wouldn't have expanded past the coast of the western mediterranean, and eventually the migrating gauls would have lead to their collapse like the germanic migration collapsed western romeIn the east various helenistic kingdoms would have fought each other until one of them(probably egypt) would have dominated the eastern mediterranean and enter in to a long conflict with a resurgent zoroastrian dinasty in persia(probably the parthians still)The gauls in the west who conquered the chartaginian empire are divided in multiple tribal kingdoms culturally influenced by chartage, they are spread all through western Europe.Also christianity still happens but without an mediterranean wide imperial infrastructure to spred it remains confined to the eastern helenistic kingdom.Islam might still happen but in different circumstances.
They probably wouldn't have been as interested in Platonism.Also, Carthage was a colony of Lebanon, and the Romans were already interested in Carthaginian high-culture like drama, and their gods like Tanit.
>>17974641>Even Persians before their fall hired Greek generals, mercenaries and artists to work for them.Probably because many Greeks were their subjects
>>17974636virgin "conquered everyone in order to be respected" roman vs chad "didn't need to conquer to be respected" greek
>>17974661Spengler said it was the last major remnant of Babylonian/Mesopotamian culture (ziggurats, base 60, Lovecraftian gods like Baal and Moloch, highly developed mercantile/business sector, etc.) kind of like China and India which he considered to be living fossils.
>>17974636They had extremely low numbers and chafed at trying to assimilate their subjects. I can see a nominal ownership of much of the west med but they'd eventually collapse due to revolts. I can see a Diadochi state coming in to take much of what they held in southern Italy and a new Helleno-Italic state rising in time to just make a weaker and earlier Greek version of Rome
>>17974661child sacrifices
The more I read on the Greeks the more I realize they really just adopted things from North Africa, India, and everything in between.
>>17977659>IndiaLike what, worshipping white men or eating cow shit?
>>17977659Greece was shit particularly hard by the bronze age collapse, entirely different beast. Writing itself was forgotten and had to build up from zero.
>>17977668Didnt that happen after the Brits came in like a vortex and turned their country upside down?
>>17977672Yeah, and they adopted the Phoenician alphabet which proves my point.
>>17977674>>17977678So what did India provide to the Greeks? Besides some Persian born in India inventing some numbers which werent made or imported during this period, what?
>>17977678Correct, and? They built on what came before them. Read any work of natural philosophy from Classical Greece and they commonly identified Egypt as a far older civilization from their own, and where all their scholars went to get mystic knowledge or how they heard so and so story from someone who went to Egypt.
>>17977686The Indo-Greeks and Buddhism syncretism are a neat episode but that happened in the Hellenistic era. Before Alexander, Greeks knew India as the tropical land ruled by Dionysus, densely populated with bare chested prostitutes and their people drank wine all day.
>>17977701>>17977682
>>17977704You specifically named India as a main source for "adopted things" now substantiate it
Great, so now we know that Greeks took everything from older and greater civilizations before them, so why does everyone suck their proverbial clitties so much?
>>17974645But it didn't happen >The Phoenicians had planted trading posts in Africa, Sicily, Sardinia and Iberia during the 9th and 8th centuries BC while creating their trading monopoly. The Phoenicians were among the first peoples, if not the first, to begin trading around the Mediterranean on a wide scale after the period of economic decline that had accompanied the end of the Mediterranean Bronze Age. The Etruscans emerged as a local power in the 8th century BC, spreading their trade to Corsica, Sardinia and Iberia and creating a powerful navy to guard their interests. The Phoenicians and Etruscans became trading partners and rivals, exchanging goods with and engaging in opportunistic raids against each other. The situation changed with the beginning and growth of Greek activity in the western Mediterranean from around 750 BC onward.>The naval Battle of Alalia took place between 540 BC and 535 BC off the coast of Corsica between Greeks and the allied Etruscans and Carthaginians. A Greek force of 60 Phocaean ships defeated a Punic-Etruscan fleet of 120 ships while emigrating to the western Mediterranean and the nearby colony of Alalia (now Aléria)
>>17977730anti-semitism.
>>17977709I didn't, I didn't make that post
>>17974708>and eventually the migrating gauls would have lead to their collapse like the germanic migration collapsed western romeCarthage wasn't Rome. That kind of society doesn't "collapse" because it's not a fragile centralized bureaucracy.
>>17978040Semites arent the only ones who developed a lot for humanity. In fact it started far back, even 10k years ago. Also lets make sure to understand that Semitic people dont include the thieves called Jews nowadays.
>>17974690I can already tell you're some kind of shitskin in a white country
>>17974690They took a lot from ancient Lybia where the Sun and Moon were worshipped, like learning to ride chariots. Instead the Greeks decided to prop up the lake goddess and pretend they created civilization.
>>17974661>They dont even have their own aesthetics like says the Greeks, Egyptians, PersiansFrom the few examples of bronze armor surviving it seems they had adopted a Euro-esque kit of mail and ornate plate armor items and helmets similar to Hellenic and Etruscan cultures. What rustles my jimmies is the lack of this supposed elite core of actual ethnic Punic peoples except for the Barcas. I've the people actually get outfitted with such things. Mercenaries had to be well-paid and bringing whatever kits they could develop on, very soulful most likely. These people were seriously shit at war though, like they had focused their XP on everything else. The Barcas were likely just a bunch of contrarians who had the financial means to pull logistically unthinkable things off so far west. Who tf just brings Selucid war elephants into a place? Bunch of jerks.
>>17977701Imagine being a companion of alexander and marching with baited breath to cross into indus, fuck some thots, drink wine and loot temples only to run into real dravidians lmao
>>17979193Selecus was never serious about conquering the "empire" that had formed since the first Hellenic incursion. He knew it was suicide fuel just not be there. And they had a shit ton of war elephants. Why not imply war and make a Faustian trade so you can simply avoid going back to India? It's a win across the board, even your mutt daughter gets to live like the most privileged jeet that ever lived, worshipped like a goddess and hopefully not sat on fire or drowned or anything like that.
>>17975787I can't take a guy who claimed that the inventors of history as a dicipline (the Greeks) were ahistorical as a people, if anything it seems like the near eastern people were the ahistorical ones as they failed to recognize the importance of human actions in the recent past, divinized people such as Pharaos or Sargon aside. Hell, even when Herodotus asks the Egyptians about their history all he gets are myths and folklore untill Psammetichos' time, and he has Greek sources for that period.>>17977659>North AfricaThey got Archaic sculpture techniques from Egypt, that's about it really.>IndiaLul what>everything in betweenPhoenician alphabet and Canaanite/Babylonian/Hittite mythological themes? Yes, although the Greeks did it way better and there really isn't anything as good as the Illiad from before the Greeks.They also got coinage from Lydia and hoplite armor might originate in Caria, but the point is that the Greeks maniged to vastly improve on what their predecessors had done, and by the late archaich-classical period Greek culture is something unique in itself.
>>17979328it's obvious he's a jeet to even include India.
>>17979328What is Greek history that arent myths also?
>>17979406Conquering the near east, being genius in all sciences and philosophy and having a disproportionate impact on the west? What is Indian history that isnt just bwc worship and getting conquered?
Dont worry. The tides will turn soon enough.
>>17979406Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Ephorus, Polybius, Plutarch, Arrian, etc. We have Greco-Roman historians, but where are the historical works of the near-easterners?The Greeks cared a lot about the relatively recent past and actions of men in it aswell as the impact of their actions on posterity and, importantly, they found such actions worthy of recording and explaining rather than mearly chronicling. There seems to be a lot less of this among the near eastern peoples, the Jews get close, but they postulate god as the mover of history wheras the Greeks are *relatively* secular in their historical outlook on top of the things previously mentioned.
