As a far right deracinated white suburban American (no I'm not Catholic, have no Hispanic/nonwhite blood, and hate groypers) I *do* think that libtards are closer to the spirit of our country's original founders. Freedom and liberty are these consistent ideals you keep seeing pop up, while focusing on other things seems kind of arbitrary with this train of thought. However, at the same time, I literally do not care because I think that we should create something entirely new instead.
>>17978309Also it's not like the founders were paralyzed to follow tradition as it was in England during Henry VIII's reign so who gives a shit. We can move past things, but I see the argument libtards make.
>>17978312There's a bit of Polish blood, no for the other ones, and probably a tiny amount of Irish mixed in with the British (which isn't too much). It's surprisingly German considering how it's been centuries.
>>17978309Libtards have no principles. They are completely whimsical and either support or oppose policies depending on how it makes them feel. No one is willing to make sacrifices for a higher ideal.
>>17978317There's a consistent emphasis on freedom and liberty, at least among many of them. This is much harder to rationalize from the far right point of view. Again, the thing with me is that I think this obsession with freedom and liberty is a moot point that I do not care much for myself.
>>17978319Leftists are motivated by a mix of envy, narcissism, laziness and empathy. They do not give a flying fuck about freedom and liberty, they just want to virtue signal, steal things from people they are envious of and reduce the total amount of suffering in the world. The founders wanted a society led by conservative and paternalistic white males who were free to do as they please
>>17978319>I *do* think that libtards are closer to the spirit of our country's original founders.The main difference as I see it between the classical liberalism historically espoused by Americans and the modern "libtard" is that the latter is only an imitation of the former.The modern "libtard" takes their orders from nightly television broadcasts, and they regularly fall victim to basic rhetorical fallacies meant to convince them to give up their liberties, such as the Second Amendment. This is done at the same time as pretending that they are representing "liberal" values. In this sense, the "libtard" mimics classical liberalism and often takes the name "liberal," while in practice being subverted and turned into opponents that actually contribute to undermine freedoms of themselves and everyone else. Such people uniformly fall for very simple fallacies that are presented to them couched in liberal-sounding rhetoric, and they do so in a very stupid and gullible herdlike manner by those who write the television scripts that the libtards all watch.The "libtards" would be precisely the people who started hyperventilating if they saw anyone not following the orders repeated by talking heads on television that everyone had to wear a mask during COVID.>>17978319>There's a consistent emphasis on freedom and liberty, at least among many of them.Only superficially, in words. In practice they support the opposite of classical liberalism and have a herd mentality, taking their orders primarily from television such as the mainstream press and late night comedy shows, which is functionally their unifying principle.>This is much harder to rationalize from the far right point of view.I wouldn't consider the founders "far right" though. That would better fit the monarchists of Europe at the time. I don't think the founders were extremists for either side. Far left and far right both think violence is needed to enforce their order, while classical liberals do not.
>we value democracy and the voice of the people>the people like who they vote for? Ew, that's populism
>>17978361>conservativeConservative by the standards of our times, but not by the standards of their times. Back in their times, being conservative meant being a royalist who was in favor of teaching children Greek and Latin and promoting high-yield agriculture as the primary means to developing the national economy, not modern languages and high-tech development.Do you think George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would've wanted to see semiconductor fabs on the Virginian Piedmont?
>>17978309>WHITE POWERRRRRRRRRR
>17979313go back
>>17978309>I *do* think that libtards are closer to the spirit of our country's original founders.The problem is that these can only be held when shared responsibilities/consequences are small. If you have high concentration of populations, you have high concentration of inter-personal consequences (if I do "x" and it impacts you, you'd want to have a rule for how people can do "x"). This essentially means that libertarian principles can't really work in high-population areas because your freedom will necessarily impede on others', which in turn means that a consensus or middle ground has to be reached, and that implies a state to ensure said-consensus.Libertarian was the spirit of the founders, but only because america was a frontier nation.
>>17978309True but liberal democracy can only exist with the prerequisites that women and non-whites can't vote or it implodes
Most of what you would call an american liberal is an unapologetic militant marxist and I'm pretty sure if the founders ever met communists they would have gotten medieval on them
>>17979713>liberalism is marxismGet a new line.
>>17979730start naming off elements of what you think liberalism is and I will tell you how you've just been spun a web of lies by communists
>>17979735The right to own private property. The right to defend that property. The right to inherit that property. The right to engage in commerce without draconian government laws set by retarded authoritarian parties. The right to freely practice one's religion and freedom of association and assembly. Consent of the governed. Freedom to speak without fear of persecution or imprisonment.
>>17979752*for white people
>>17979752* for rich white people who agree with the corporate agenda
>>17979758>>17979762so is it liberalism communism or is it rich white peopleism? this is a strange 180 you've turned here
>>17978319>There's a consistent emphasis on freedom and libertylibtard when whites want to be free from the burden of dealing with non whites:>no that's literally hitlerlibtards when anyone wants to own a gun to protect their family from non whites:>no that's literally hitleretc...the so called desire for freedom and liberty of the libtard is their desire to mooch off of whites while oppressing whites in white civilizations
>>17979766Liberalism was redefined by communists in the 30's in the US to mean essentially crony statism (communism)
>>17978309If everybody is free nobody is, you need winners and losers, slaves and masters, hope this helps.
>>17979768>whiteswhiteswhitesnonwhiteswhitesnonwhitesThis is why right wingers IRL distance themselves from you retards as much as they can. You exist to make leftists look appealing.
>>17979773how could leftists ever look appealing unless you're mentally retarded
>>17978317>libtards are all emotions, unlike me>I LOVE Israel>I FEAR niggers>I HATE retirement
>>17979778israel is gay and retardedniggs are useless eatersI am retiredftfy
>>17979778How could anybody fear a race like blacks?
>>17978361>>17978615holy strawman epstein
>>17978309sieg heil brother
>>17978319>lets replace the founding fathers with *checks notes* nazis, because, um, just do it ok.Thanks for the input poltroon.
>>17979752I like how none of the retards who replied to you actually addressed any of the elements of liberalism like you've named. They just gave up.
>>17981661Because we agree with him. What op is calling "libtard" is actually Marxism packaged in a liberal wrapping paper. They take moralistic incoherent positions because they can't actually prove anything without exposing their Marxist philosophy so they just screech and posture
what is the point of this thread?
>>17978309the founders were right wing conservatives
>>17980460
so it's a bot thread?
>>17981830It's in defense of libtards.Although it makes me wonder if their is a distinction between this and 'liberals.'But, all the answers are basically going to be to the right of liberals because this board is basically /pol/ light.
>>17981991If you ask literally anybody who's not from America or Northwestern Europe, America was definitely founded by people who were socially and economically liberal by the standards of their time. No Russian, Chinese, Saudi Arabian, Turk, or even Brazilian who knows anything about history will ever call the American Founding Fathers "conservative" because they were clearly against state-mandated religion, in favor of the open criticism of government policies, and all against monarchism or any kind of pure authoritarian system.America's Founding Fathers only come off as "conservative" in the minds of people who have little to no historical consciousness or awareness of what being conservative actually meant during the Enlightenment era. Americans have no traditions of having clerics informing the government on laws to enforce regarding banking, marriage, and civil contracts, nor do they have any traditions regarding actual feudalism. They simply cannot conceive the idea that people above them can have power granted to them by God to will others into behaving in a specific way, to earn money in specific ways, to not be allowed to purchase or employ tools forbidden to those of their rank or caste, or anything of such sort.The fact of the matter is that American "conservatives" are obsessed with a fixed set of "freedoms" that no other society in history before would've taken for granted, and American "liberals" are interested in seeking for the common welfare in a way comparable to that of other countries' progressives, yet somehow American "conservatives" fail to see that the rights that they hold so dearly are but means to implementing the objectives that American "liberals" have.Ask an American, and he will tell you the two parties in his country have nothing in common, but ask any foreigner and he will tell you that America's two main parties differ only in branding, even though their ultimate objectives are the same: more money for Israel and Wall Street.
>>17981991But OP specified that he doesn't care.
>>17982026Liberalism is true socialism. It discovered actual historical inconsistencies in the claims made by conservatives about the nature of state and religion. Socialism is the retarded misbegotten offspring of liberalism created by loud mouth progressives in France that didn't know their asshole from their elbow.Philosophically i would argue that since liberalism is based on actual facts that carves a very deep channel between it and hard line "leftist" ideologies
>>17979730They're both technically leftist movements?>t. monarchy advocate, but still sympathetic to lowercase R republicanism
>>17982107Definitely subjective. Name a socialist French philosopher quotes as much as Locke
>>17982112Also, liberalism wasnt anti monarchy, it was anti god-king. Which wasn't even invented by northern euros it was invented by the Romans
>>17981991Liberalism splintered off into two rival factions by the 20th century, first you had the classical liberals who took after Hobbes and Locke and believed in a well armed population to ward off tyranny. These people ended up in the Mises Institute usually or were fellow travelers. The second faction was more left leaning and took the rhetoric about tyranny to its logical conclusion to mean anti-militarism, anti-intolerance, etc. Who were disciples of John Stuart Mill and found relevance in figures like Karl Popper. I write short essays on genealogies of political theory and general philosophy going back to the ancient Greeks and Romans all the way up to the 20th century in my spare time and often invoke elements of political theology/civil religion concepts and socio-psychological insight into the motives of the thinkers and the environment in which they're created. Oftentimes with my own moral and political perspective on the whole thing as a addendum. mostly do this for fun but I'm working on getting a degree in world history and political science soon.
>>17982112The French Revolution was anti divine right. By denying God hood to a leader it veers towards leftism. Cope and seethe.
>>17982119Thats irrelevant who invented it. The thing is, the concept exists and to defy it is textbook left wing praxis.
>>17982125John Stewart mill was an English socialist
>>17982131Liberals anthropologically debunked the Divine right of kings, the fact that they didn't pull a Galileo and start pissing in everyone's faces was a credit to their character
>>17982137So we like leftism. We like inventing our own 3rd party. Remind me why we don't like conservatism again?
>>17982150Science isn't leftism it's politically neutral
>>17982152>liberalism isn't leftismthen there should be no contradiction in being a far right liberal. Except maybe the "far" part. You're on the medium right.
>>17982160I don't even think being a liberal is a political ideology. If you think about it what do they believe in? Constitutions? Low government spending? That's not an ideology lmao
>>17982164so in what way are "libtards" closer to the founders?
>>17982166Oh I didn't say that. Actually that's a good point though. Being a liberal isn't even a political ideology, it's a Republic without a head. So people that pretend to be liberals are actually just slaves of the head they created
>>17982174If you're not OP how do you know the point of the thread? I think you may be mistaken.
>>17982177I thought the point of the thread was OP's misunderstanding of what "libtards" actually believe
>>17982182That doesn't make any sense. OP doesn't make much sense either. Sus thread.
>>17982188OP's probably referring to ongoing 14th amendment problems in the US which has to to generally with the socialists in the US (libtards) pushing to extend the US 14th amendment globally He's saying that making essentially the whole world a US citizen is more in the spirit of freedom like the founders, or something of that nature.
>>17982197Yeah maybe. I don't recommend inventing backstories and defending complete strangers in this day and age. OP has shown nothing to indicate he's even alive.
>>17982201Oh I'm just trying to make the best out of a shit thread
Both major political factions in the US are varying degrees of Liberal
>>17982228Possibly but that would insist that liberalism is only an Anglo-American institution which is foreign elsewhere. Its one tin pot dictator or another for those people.
>>17982152LOL. sure, pal.
>>17982364Even the Catholic Church thought so, and they had a massive stick up their ass
>>17982137>debunkThey didn't. All science is subjected to narratives which are invented not discovered.
>>17982133He was a left liberal, which is still leftism
>>17982228most people that "lean left" are some sort of minority. I think this is because they're being told they need to agitate for some unidentifiable goal
>>17982377Liberalism (I mean actual liberalism, not the colloquial use of the term liberal) is Center-Right. Both major political factions in the US are Liberal in the strictest sense
>>17982379Right. You implied that we're not so different. I'm naming differences. They're economically, anthropologically and philosophically illiterate by and large. They're religiously bankrupt and dumb, just straight dumb. Which is odd when they congregate at colleges. Maybe it's just a bunch of dumb confused people
>>17982385They are different, but they still follow and adhere to a liberal framework regardless of differing economic and foreign policy. Even Orange Man himself was a Democrat for most of the 2000s
>>17982386and there's where you're wrong, they actively violate the constitution and have since the beginning.That's the problem, they don't truly understand the constitution or why they're here, because they were dumped in the major cities which are cesspools.
>>17982370>>17982372>>17982377>>17982379>>17982385>>17982386god who gives a shit
>>17982389Oh I'm bored as fuck m8
>>17982392This thread is a complete zero. I don't understand what you're getting out of it.
>>17982388>they actively violate the constitutionOkayBut both parties are still operating under a Liberal framework. People you don't like are only leftist within the context of American politics, relative to global politics, both parties are right-wing.
>>17982399who gives a shit?
>>17982404>>17982389>who gives a shitYou do apparently, because you have the power to just not post in this thread but you do anyways
>>17982406I'm just wondering what's going on here. You know normal threads aren't like this.
>>17982407>"normal threads" No such thing on this wretched website
>>17982393it's just a thought experiment
>>17982410>wretched websitered flagtry to act like you post here
>>17982416>>17982407>>17982404>>17982389This guy is a bot by the way
>>17982414How would you know, you're not OP.
>>17982399Are they though? the northern democrat party has had a history of election rigging since forever.
>>17982418This is a bot thread by the way
>>17982421and the republican coup that lead to the civil war was funny
>>17982424I guess the lesson is if anybody gets elected that tells us to kill southerners we don't listen
