>This isn't fascism because... IT JUST ISN'T OKAY?!
It's not fascism because it isn't an ultranationalist militaristic cult explicitly formulated to prevent a socialist uprising.
>>17980239Fascism is socialism + the entire Soviet military was based around the need to prevent any popular uprising against Stalin’s retarded policies
>>17980239>ultranationalistit was>militaristicit sure was>cultit absolutely was>explicitly formulated to prevent a socialist uprisingby the 30s the only risk of civil war was from other socialist factions
>>17980245Except, no.You're mixing up Nazism with Soviet Styled communism.Now sure, there were similarities between the two. The real major difference was their stance on capitalism.The soviets were not really fans of it, and the Nazis didn't mind it so much as long as it wasn't a Jewish owned business.
>>17980239Wow, you verbatim described what pretty much every vanguardist state ended up as.
>>17980227>No Corporatism>No Actualism >No autistic obsession with artWasn't Fascism
>>17980227>fascism is when soldiers in shiny leather coats and boots have a parade
>>17980273Capitalism is 100% okay in the eyes of all early Marxist philosophers as long as it was with the goal to achieve communism, fascists had the goal to achieve autarky. Both are socialists, but taken to the extremes in different directions. A commie and fascist can coexist with a capitalist, but never with each other because they’re competing revolutionary ideologies
>>17980227This thread will be filled with libs who can’t accurately explain why it isn’t fascism because their ideology doesn’t adequately equip them to do so. OP pic isn’t fascism because it isn’t a militarized petty bourgeois unionized and entrenched in the political sphere (whilst still taking orders from capital) as a reaction against bolshevism. However Stalinism still isn’t socialism because that Georgian retard turned it into his own personality cult.
>>17980227Based anti-colonial Slavic fascism BTFOing Anglo imperialist liberals
>>17980295>Capitalism is 100% okay in the eyes of all early Marxist philosophers as long as it was with the goal to achieve communismIt's not the same thing as Soviet Styled communism. Sure, they drew inspiration from Marx, but execution was different.Also, for that matter according to britannica.>some observers have noted significant similarities between fascism and Soviet communism. Both were mass movements, both emerged in the years following World War I in circumstances of political turmoil and economic collapse, both sought to create totalitarian systems after they came to power (and often concealed their totalitarian ambitions beforehand), and both employed terror and violence without scruple when it was expedient to do so. Other scholars have cautioned against reading too much into these similarities, however, noting that fascist regimes (in particular Nazi Germany) used terror for different purposes and against different groups than did the Soviets and that fascists, unlike communists, generally supported capitalism and defended the interests of economic elites
>>17980372Anon you must be confused, i was only sharing that fascism is a socialist ideology, I never claimed it to be communist. It was only to prove this guy wrong >>17980239 , I agree that the Soviets were not fascists
>>17980239> ultranationalist militaristic cult It is though > formulated to prevent a socialist uprising.Neither was fascism. Hitler and Mussolini’s early supporters were all socialists or former socialists or had socialist sympathies.
>>17980273The Nazis were very much anti-capitalist up until the night of the long knives. Hitler betraying the ideology for political convenience doesn’t really change that.
>>17980379I was thinking the reason you thought that was the case was because I thought you were mixing Nazism with soviet communism (which was in actuality socialist).Now if you were to have said that both soviet communism was fascist, I would have cautioned you still but at least saw where you were coming from.>>17980385>Hitler betraying the ideology for political convenience doesn’t really change thatHe defines the terms and conditions of Nazism. I sleep.
>>17980239>he defines an ideology as literally anything else than what it itself claims to be
Stalinism>Populist Leader leveraging and mobilizing industry to consolidate power towards an idealFascism>Populist Leader leveraging and mobilizing industry to consolidate power towards an idealThis is why they both superficially resemble each other, both feature populist leaders and both are centered around leveraging industry. But that's pretty much where the similarities end.
>>17980390Alot of the arguments on here are also just based on that first reply and not the OP, fascism is really different but often times those who try to debunk their similarities use the very things both ideologies share as the first comment did
>>17980385Bringing up any sort of hypocrisy as a failure of an ideology is pointless because every ideology that comes to power engages in it. Eventually they will come across some kind of a problem that they can't navigate with pure orthodox ideology and so will have to compromise. It is a condition of being in power. Ideologies that don't compromise rarely get into power, and when they do they fall.Tolerance to hypocritical compromise is a filter really.
I could care less about ideological differences of an astronomical scale when the practical results are only a few degrees apart.
>>17980400Imagine if the only tolerated writings that try to explain what communism is were written by Reaganite neocons, and anything else was dismissed as commie propaganda that you are never allowed to read because you might be taken over by it.
Fascism was more cultural and admittedly nationalist. Germany had many socialist strains brewing and this led to NatSoc. Never forget from Finland to Italy lots of people in those countrys were terrified that Communism would take hold and destroy churches and many other cultural cornerstones.Theoretical communism is supposed to be basically a worldwide system.
>>17980396>>17980400>>17980415Oh wait, my bad. I thought you replied to me earlier.Anyway, much of what >>17980239 said follows.The only problem is that fascism differs from place to place throughout history due to not fulfilling every criteria.
>>17980422I hate to sound like a lefty but then communism really has actually never been tried if that's the case. lol.
>>17980471That's not the only reason.Communism hasn't been tried because it's basically a goal to achieve.Along the way the varying degrees of socialism (social democracy [which is kind of iffy for this], democratic socialism, socialism itself) have to be attempted.
>>17980471>>17980490That's also not to get into the different schools of thought. Such as classical Marxism, reformed Marxism, anarcho syndacalism, etc.
>>17980471There was a failed revolution in Germany before the Nat Socs that was way closer to Communism, Germany was really having a terrible time of it.Russia had a very large class discrepancy. Maybe the largest in Europe. Even though Russia had lots of great art and fascinating micro cultures, it became communist. China was like that too.
>>17980227I wonder how many Russian boomers are genuinely communist leninists vs just low iq nationalists?its funny cuz my father is a christian moved to the USA after the fall of the USSR and he defended communism a few times, like youre a christian?
>>17980239>it isn't an ultranationalist militaristic cultIs this nigger serious?>>17980381This. Fascism is literally a cope ideology that was invented by Marxists who got assmad that the First World War didn't result in the world revolution they had been clamoring for.>>17980398They also tend to have the same end result, that being societal ruin.
>>17980498Well Communism did seem kind of cool if only because of Russian culture. And they won in WW2 and were super pwerfull for decades. Kind of hard not to be. I say this as a non-Russian.But yhea from a Christian perspective. I a tally don't know what happened to it after the 40's and 50's, but weren't they supposed to have eradicated it?
>>17980227Fascists are the ones that copied Bolshevik aesthetics and rhetoric but somehow retarded children that can't look at a timeline flip it around
>>17980239>USSR wasn't ultra-militaristic & nationalistic Uhm...yeah it was.The core tenants of communism is the abolishing of the state.The USSR was the complete opposite; it had an extremely centralized and authoritarian state.Also, fascism basically embraces socialism.This is the whole point of many of George Orwells classic novels such as Animal Farm. He emphasize that communism in practice becomes what fascism is in theory.
>>17980650You do know that George Orwell was a socialist, right?
>>17980699You know that he abandoned it too when he saw what it led to, right?
>>17980239That's exactly what Stalin did.
>>17980282LaSSalleanism triumphs over all else.
>>17980712Orwell was a democratic socialist all his life.
>>17980837>democratic socialistWhich is a huge difference from the socialism that is communism, which is what Orwell recognized as fascism.You should really read animal farm (it's a great book overall).But yeah, my bad, I didn't formulate myself properly when I said he renounced socialism, because what I meant was pure socialism, if that makes sense.
>>17980227Communism is just another form of fascism, which is itself just another offshoot of socialism, one day the history books will show this, in fact they already do.
>>17980239National socialism was designed to prevent socialism?
>>17980398They're exactly the same, Russian fascism was simply adapted to reflect Russian culture and German fascism was adapted to reflect German culture.
>>17980385Hitler IS National Socialism
>>17980499>Anne Frank pedoHow long you been doing this now? Over a decade. I still see you on /k/ and /pol/ too.
Do soviet apologists really expect people to not believe verifiable visual evidence that the soviet union was an authoritarian state with a cult of personality surrounding its leadership? That it's all just CIA/Nazi/Capitalist/Royalist/Wrecker/Kulak/Reactionary/Revisionist propaganda? Do they think everyone besides them is stupid and will actually believe the shit they spew or are they telling you up is down and black is white just for the thrill of lying?
>>17980227It isn't because the trains don't run on time.
The socialism of National Socialism is not the same socialism of the Bolsheviks. Cope. >Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?">"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists!">"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic."-Adolf Hitler, Interview with George Sylvester Viereck, 1923
>>17980260bodied
>>17980239this really triggered the /pol/trannies huh
>>17980239LMAO
>>17981189but /pol/troons are also socialists.
>>17980385Hitler didn't betray socialism, he successfully carried it out, destroying the country.>>17980260>>17981179Interesting how fascists primary concern is with denying they are socialists, since their whole ideology is based around a form of socialism.
>>17980227>Fascism is when le military parade!
>>17981004Hi>How long you been doing this now?6-7 years
>>17980984National socialism isn’t fascism
>>17981175ThisNational Socialism also wasnt Italian Fascism, though there of course were similarities, particularly aesthetically as Hitler was greatly inspired by the Mussolinis movement in the early days.
>>17980239> ultranationalist militaristic cult explicitly formulated to prevent a socialist uprising.Sounds based
>>17981248Seek help pedo
>>17980273The Nazis despised capitalism desu
>>17980353> Based anti-colonial Slavic fascism BTFOing Anglo imperialist liberals
>>17980295I'm a communist and I would unironically rather team up with fascists against capitalists than the reverse. I hate those cocksuckers like you wouldn't believe.
>>17981263> I'm a communist Consider suicide. Also reminder that the computer/phone you’re posting on wouldn’t exist without capitalism
>>17981256Just the left wing faction of the party, fanatics like the Strasser brothers (whos mutineer schizo Marxist brand of NS still lives on among trannys online as Stasserism) and Rohm and the faggot clique surrounding him who agitated for a fully socialist "second revolution" after the party took power in 1933.They were killed for this.
>>17981268Yeah wow that sure would be awful if we didn't have smartphones. Imagine the horror.
>>17980227Did anything they do revolve around blood, ethnicity, ancestry, lineage, race, etc?
>>17981106No they actually think it was a good thing that they slaughtered all the farmers because the farmers were greedy capitalist devils or whatever the fuck socialists blabber and that they deserved to be starved to death at the barrel of a government weapon, they even had a special name for them called "kulaks" that they still use today. They are so twisted and evil that they think the government had a right to slaughter and starve the farmers because the government has a right to all the fruits of their labor, and that if the farmers starved to death because the government stole all their grain by force, that that was right and they deserved an agonizing mass death. All socialism is a death cult.
>>17981252Sadly it's not true because they themselves were a socialist uprising.
>>17980712>You know that he abandoned it too when he saw what it led toHigh school tier takeaway. Orwell was still a socialist, a cynical, pessimistic and discouraged one, but a socialist nonetheless.
>>17980499It’s more that Fascists were the pro-war socialists who supported the WWI draft out of patriotism, whereas the Marxists and Leninists were the anti-war “revolutionary defeatists” who saw the war as imperialists fighting each other.
>>17981649I corrected myself.He was a democratic socialist which is different from pure socialism which often leads to communism. Because in that regard, Orwell was absolutely aware that socialism in practice turns into fascism. Literally both of his best-seller books are about this fact.
>>17981649I think by the time he wrote 1984 he had begun to hate socialism, if not earlier.
>>17981846>hate socialism so much that you write a cautionary allegory about how the bourgeoisie always hijack it and shit it up
>>17981849The villain government in 1984 is literally called INGSOC (English socialism).
>>17981866Not him but his main gripe was with SocDems which the Ingsoc are based on. Commies loathe Social Democrats with a passion and the book is 100% unrealistic but that anon is right, it’s not about socialism in general but those who use half measures to achieve socialism, he like every commie literally thinks that any one who isnt 100% socialist is basically a fascist
>>17980699>>17980712>>17980837>>17980842>>17981649>>17981770>>17981866Orwell was loosely associated with a democratic socialist group in Britain called the Independent Labour Party (ILP). They're obscure but kind of... more radical than the social democrats but never joined the Comintern and they were suspicious of the Soviet-aligned communists.I think it's fair to say Orwell didn't like communism and saw the USSR as a totalitarian freak regime. The ILP had relations with the POUM which was a Marxist party in Spain that was at odds with Stalinism, and Orwell joined the POUM militia through his ILP connections, and later fled the country as the purges (from the Soviet-aligned communists) decimated the group.One thing that is consistent with Orwell is that he was a British patriot of the left. He supported Britain during the war when the communists were defeatists because they were loyal to Moscow at a time when the USSR and Nazi Germany had a non-aggression pact. His writings during the war were often on the theme that Britain basically needed to have a socialist revolution to win the war (this turned out not to be true, exactly, although Britain did end up becoming somewhat socialist), that the old-style laissez faire capitalism was on its way out, but that the communists were also hypocritical snakes who used the word "socialism," but the core of their group in Britain were middling intellectuals who felt cramped by the English social system and imagined revolution as a way to set themselves up as a new ruling oligarchy.
>>17980227>fascism is when you walk in a line
>>17981175National Socialism is the only true form of Socialism.
>>17981924Pretty much
Fascism overlaps with theocracies, and not every dictatorship is fascist.
>>17981906>it’s not about socialism in general but those who use half measures to achieve socialism, he like every commie literally thinks that any one who isnt 100% socialist is basically a fascistI sort of agree with that. Well, Orwell's instincts were more literary and vibes-based, and he was attracted to socialism because of the idealistic stuff about human brotherhood, classless society, and the absence of political domination or ideological intimidation. But there was something in his vibe detector that suggested the actual reality was way different from that. The vibes were just all wrong. Like you're being told that here is "socialism" but it's actually this City-17 police state that is blasting you with propaganda 24/7. Like imagine a Britain ruled by George Galloway. Orwell believed that the more the communist regimes dropped the idealistic stuff and became more openly totalitarian, it became MORE attractive to the middling left-wing intellectuals, teachers, and broadcasters in Britain who just liked it on account of it being a ruthless exercise in power and domination, and those people were traitors not just to ideals behind socialism but to his country as well.
>>17980227IT WAS FASCISM IT WAS BASED AND IM TIRED OF PRETENDING ITS NOTThe USSR deserves a better class of Tankie.
>>17980227Fascism is when you have parades and national heroes.
>>17982180Well yes. Liberalism hates both these things.
>>17980295>fascists had the goal to achieve autarkyHello retard.
>>17980227ngl this photo goes hardThat's all I got.
>>17981175Actually Based, unironically.Austrian Painter gets cooler every day.
>>17982272One of my favorite photos of him. The whole scene is majestic.
>>17982244Silence dumb troon
>>17981175>>17982272>>17982275https://youtu.be/XjA6o7mS01k?si=6501rD6Jk32wOaSG
>>17981175>does not repudiate private propertyHe just lost me.
>>17980260“Ultranationalist”NO! And actually Ukraine is a great example of why it isn’t. Ukraine was created by the Soviets in 1918 to give Russia less room and in fact, modern Ukrainian borders are the same ones Lenin drew up hence why Russian minorities are just stuck inside an enemy state which hates them. The modern Ukraine crisis is 100% proof that Bolshy-kikes hated Russia. As Dugin said the Bolsheviks weren’t Russian but hated them.
>>17980227>fascism is when a military force marches during a parade>>17982219hates is a weird way to put it. liberals can't get their armies of drug addicts to march properly. so they don't botherhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZeOgbLOaQ
>>17980306Stalin was based, did everything right to save the USSR and spread communism He also wasn’t a fan of his personality cult, it was simply a means to give the nation a strongman father figure to rally around and look up to
>>17982705I wouldn't go that far.https://youtu.be/DzoXIeM1qRI?si=WuRytk9UQZQQFdlb
You like Stalin because he was a communist.I like Stalin because he shot communists.We are not the same.
>>17980650>The core tenants of communism is the abolishing of the state.Stalin said the state would exist under communism so this is not true.
>>17982761Stalinist communism is it's own kind of communism.
>>17982769That's a moot point considering every communist does
>>17982771No. You're just being an obstinate ass.
>>17980239>It's not marxism because it isn't a front for the judeo-masonic cabal formulated to erase the white race from existenceThis is what you sound like.
>>17982761Doesn't change the facts thst thr core tenants of communism is the abolishing of the state. What Stalin says us irrelevant, and it further strengthen my point that Stalins USSR was more akin to the doctrines of fascism in practice while being communist in theory.Again, it's the whole plot point of Orwells Animal Farm. The pigs on the farm styles themselves as pure communists, and then make every excuse of their fascist nature by saying "no no its just another form of communism", and the other animals believes them.As do you.
>>17982774Not really. You're just a retard dude.>>17982915Communism does not have "core tenants" because its beliefs change person to person. Every communist party and split is proof of that. You're just making really weak special pleading claims that have no merit.
>>17982584Russians literally destroyed dozens of dialects and languages via enforced standardization them so that Moscow could hold preeminence.
>>17982304>Jewtube kike propagandaNo thanks
>>17982304Ummmm sweety you can't judge someone just because they are "weird" according to your white heteronormative imperialist preconceived prejudices, that's toxic.
>>17982769Stalin was just being honest.
>>17981369Fascism isn’t socialism (Nazism is socialism however).
>>17981273Stop using yours then
>>17981272> Just the left wing faction of the partyNot just them. National socialism was always inherently anti-capitalist. Hitler would condemn both capitalism and communism.
>>17983483Lip service in speeches in one thing, actions are another. They embraced capitalism and only nationalized some industry. Rohm and his faggot friends wanted to nationalize everything even fucking department stores
>>17983589>Rohm and his faggot friends wanted to nationalize everything even fucking department storesBased. No wonder shicklgrueber murdered him.
>>17983194Well, communist ideologies do have the concept of the dissolution of state, so fuck off!
>>17982937>Communism does not have "core tenants"Uhm yes it does?The communist manifesto is literally the Bible of communism as Mein Kampf is the Bible of national-socialism
>>17983476Yes it is.Fascism is just another word for National-syndicalism.And syndicalism is core socialism
