>What if there was an ancient super civilization based on the coast of North America and Europe that left behind zero buildings or shipwrecks and never built anything inland>What if it taught agriculture to all other civilizations, but didn't bring a common crop, but rather had everyone domesticate local crops for some reason>What if its sailors and merchants and whatever never had sex with the natives, so there's no genetic link or evidence of their existence>What if they built a road on a random Caribbean island that leads to Atlantis>What if this picture of a snake in Mexico is the same snake as this picture in Egypt>What if all of this was being covered up by the government and Big Archeology for hundreds of years>Why no, I have no evidence for any of this, I'm just asking questions bro
>We haven't found Atlantis or any scrap of evidence that Atlantis was a real place, not even one sherd of pottery, after decades of searching.>But have we dug up every single square inch of the Earth? No? I win.
The archaeology cover up idea is hilarious. Oh no, they go proved wrong and now there's an ENTIRE new classical civilisation to carry out digs to explore and books to write about? The archaeology community would be doing cartwheels down the street in absolute joy.>Yeah, but their pride, the egg on their face, the books they wrote earlier!Yeah, they'll get over it once the new book goes to the publishers. That's how writing about this stuff works.
>>17985498Big Archeology is covering up a global civilization with no buildings, no DNA, and no artifacts... just a random road to Atlantis? That's the most incompetent cover-up in history.
Atlantis is like the coolest thing that never existed
>>17985890How? They got defeated by stone ahead Athens, before Athens even existed.
>>17985498I lost all respect for this guy when I discovered he has an Indian wife
I can't really blame graham for saying retarded shit since I would do similiar shit if it meant I could get a shit load of money for it, I will blame the retards that constantly fall for said shit
>>17985890Atlantis is just the rotten civilization before Noah's flood turned myth.
>>17985498The amount of people who think Atlantis was real is absurd. Like dude, Plato created Atlantis as an allegory for the hubris of nations, he wasn’t intending to write history at all and would be baffled if you told him that people today think Atlantis was real. I know these people are conspiracy theorists, but believing Atlantis was real might as well be like if people in 2000 years believe Wakanda was real. The whole thing is obviously meant to be fiction.
>>17986204Also, I’ve always wondered why Ur-Athens is ignored in Atlantis myths. After all the main thing is that Atlantis tries to take over the known world, but Ur-Athens beats them.So why do people focus on Atlantis and not on this other prehistorical culture which beat Atlantis in a fight?This is also an issue I have with those Atlantis myths where Atlantians are a high tech culture in the past fighting major wars. Major wars against whom? Like with Disney’s Atlantis, where they have giant robots and super weapons to drow continents. Who was out there against which they needed such devastating weapons in the first place?
>>17986208There are other lost continents like Hyperborea, Lemuria and Mu.
>>17986216
>>17986208Because then they'd have to accept it was just an analogy for the idealised Athenian state defeating their enemies to the west. Or explain why no other Athenian authors mention this amazing Athenian state that was the leader of the Greeks.
>>17986204>The amount of people who think Atlantis was real is absurd. Like dude, Plato created Atlantis as an allegory for the hubris of nationsThe way you automatically know this is a false premise and that you're basically retarded is that Platon specifically lays out the history. He's giving you the history because he expects you to treat it like history. If it were a parable or metaphor, he would say so. He literally starts his parables by introducing them that way. He does not do that for Atlantis, but quite the opposite. In stories where he mixes the two he explicitly distinguishes which parts he's fabricating, like in the Ring of Gyges. You're take is at the level of brain damaged. When I imagine what kind of uncritical person types out a post like yours, I imagine idiocracy.
>>17986208>I’ve always wondered why Ur-Athens is ignored in Atlantis mythsHerodotus says the Athenians back in those days lived north of the Tyrrhenians. The Tyrrhenians include Etruscans, but if you go north of that you get Raetians which are also Tyrrhenians, but if you go north of that you're in Germany. No one wants to hear this but the Athenian homeland was in Germany. Three pulse migrations led the Greeks to where it is today and into Turkey.>This is also an issue I have with those Atlantis myths where Atlantians are a high tech culture in the past fighting major warsAccording to Plato the most advanced tech they had was stainless metals. That might not seem like a big deal but keep in mind this is 9600 BC. No one else is even doing metallurgy and these guys have basically perfected the rudiments.
>>17986258So why does no other Athenian author mention this massive victory for their city over such a powerful enemy?
>>17986263The short version is that Egyptians claimed to have recorded some 30,000 years or so of history. Greeks casually drop Egyptian chronology, which always extends back several thousands of years earlier than any other referencing source when debating religious figures. For example, The Greek Herakles comes from the 2nd millennium BC according to the Greeks, but the Egyptians push theirs back (or the figure they identify with him) several thousands of years prior (this specifically is in Herodotus). >We shall now transpose the citizens and the city which you described to us yesterday as a myth to a true situation by locating that city here, as if it were our city, Athens, and those citizens whom you imagined, we shall declare to be our true ancestors whom the Egyptian priest described The two stories will harmonise completely, and we shall strike no discordant note in declaring that your citizens are the Athenians of ancient times.But apparently they did connect both Athenians then and later as the same group twice in Timaeus. But the real answer your looking for is answer at length: there are events so great and world changing that few remember them due to the aftermath that was caused. The result of the flooding of Atlantis also led to tumult's elsewhere. Seas are less navigable which is directly cited from the Platonic sources. This means that no one would have reason to go to investigate Atlantis but also, moreover, that they physically could not. Another example is brought up concerning the conflagrations which routinely strike Earth and destroy peoples who are at high altitudes.
>In fact, you Athenians also have the story of how Phaethon, the child of the Sun, once harnessed his father’s chariot, but because he was not able to drive it along the path of the Sun, he brought fire upon the Earth and was himself killed by a thunderbolt. Now, this is told in the form of a myth, but the truth is that there is an alteration of the motion of the heavenly bodies travelling around the Earth, and at regular long intervals destruction is wrought upon the Earth’s surface by an enormous fire. When this happens, those who live in mountains or high places or dry places suffer greater destruction than maritime or river-dwelling folk. Further:>The Nile, which is always our saviour, also saves us from this difficulty on such occasions by its rising. But whenever the gods flood the Earth with water to purify it, the shepherds and herdsmen in the mountains are saved, while those who dwell in your cities are swept out to sea by the rivers. However, in this land of ours, water does not pour down on the fields from above – not then, not ever – but on the contrary, it all comes up naturally from below. That’s the reason why the records preserved here are said to be most ancient of all.He's explaining that flooding also occurs but Egypt is ever preserved. And now we can get to the meat of why certain people despise this story:> You and your entire city are descended from this race, from a small remnant of their seed, but you are unaware of this because, for many generations, those who survived left no written records when they died. But there was once a time, Solon, before the greatest ever destruction by water, when the city that is now Athens was better than any in war, and supremely well governed in every respect. Its deeds were reputed to have been the noblest, and the conduct of its affairs the fairest of any city we have heard of under Heaven.
We have all been told that Timaeus is about a superior political system. It's nothing of the sort. It's describing the Athenians as a glorious race with an ancient mythic past, a chosen people who are inherently in some way superior to others. And lest we forget why Atlantis was abandoned and destroyed by the Gods- their crime was race mixing. It is said that they lost their semi-divine nature and fell after much interbreeding.
>>17986258In the same story as Plato talking about Atlantis, he talks about a magical ring of invisibility (that inspired Lord of the Rings' one later). He just makes allegories and argues that way, that was his style.
>>17986291Where does Plato describe the Atlanteans crime as race mixing.
>>17986258I forgot who started it, but the argument basically was >we know with 100% certainty that there never was land where plato described it (no we havent actually looked, lol), therefore its all of it is completely fictionaland then everyone parroted that opinion and either concluded that its just an allegory dude or looking for Atlantis everywhere from the med, to the richat structure to Britain, just not at the very detailed location plato gives. that platos date of the sinking lines up perfectly with meltwaterpulse 1B is of cause pure coincidence.
>>17986609And when was Platos date exactly?
>>17986609Atlantis was universally accepted as a parable until the 1890s, when a US senator wanted to prove how the Aztecs couldn't have built their cities because they were too primitive. The same man who wrote a book about Atlantis being real also broke a book about his psychic powers talking to underground people in the hollow Earth.
>>179866169000 years before solon, which sums up to about 11600BPdating of in meltwaterpulse 1B is at between 11200-11500BP>>17986644you gonna start with the whole "atlantis is racist" nonsense now?
>>17986707You can complain about that if you want, but it doesn't change the basic fact that it was a story made up by Plato for the purpose of a philosophical argument.
>>17986740its not a basic fact, its a possible interpretation. another possible interpretation is that he used a story that solon brought back from egypt to bolster his philosophical argument. also if anything, maya/olmec/toltec civilizations being founded by remnants of atlantis would mean that they were descendents of atlanteans. somehow the atlantis is racist crowd seems to automatically assume atlanteans were ancient aryans or something. kek
>>179867079000 years before Solon would be in the Paleolithic anon.
>>17986805yes>Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes.
>>17986764For the Mesoamerican civilizations to be descended from Atlantis, it would require the Atlanteans, who fought a war with Athens (according to the literal only ancient source on the matter), to have had zero interbreeding with the people they were at war with, since there is no genetic connection between Greeks and Mesoamericans. That's obviously not possible; there's always at least some interbreeding in civilizations that interact.And if you think the Atlanteans were in the Americas instead of Europe, then you have to also explain how the Greeks/Atlanteans crossed the Atlantic Ocean with no evidence of ships that could do so.
>>17986959yeah, Im dont think mesoamericans came from atlantians, just saying that if you think they did, that would make them their descendents, which makes the whole racism argument absurd.the location is in the atlantic, but plato also writes about america>This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent>atlantis azores>other islandscaribbean >opposite continentamerica>no evidence of shipsthey dont preserve that well. its incredibly lucky to find something more than 2 or 3k years old. A lot of wrecks from antiquity are just cargo on the seafloor where the hold used to be. we have ceasar writing about large gaul ships that we dont have a single example of. we dont have any of the polynesian crafts that they used to settle all of the pacific. and we know aborigines made it to Australia with boats like 50k years ago, because thats when they showed up there and you cant walk or swim, but we will never find their boats after this time.
>>17987018You claim that the Azores were a possible site for Atlantis? That just raises a million more questions.>Why are there no ancient Atlantean ruins on the Azores?>Why is there no physical evidence of an an advanced ancient civilization on the Azores?>Why did the Atlanteans, who fought a war with Athens, apparently not interact with the rest of the Mediterranean? Greece is almost as far as you can be from the entrance to the Mediterranean>Why is the island described as being massive, when the Azores are tiny?>When the Portuguese discovered them in 1427, why were the islands uninhabited?
Roads, snakes, Caribbean islands, Atlantis, etc., they're all misinterpretations.
>>17987149>Why no ruinsthey were a maritime civilization. they build down at sealevel, which is now flooded>Why is there no physical evidencesame, all underwater. we'd need to get very expensive robotic expeditions going. we'd probably need an eccentric billionaire obsessing over it. if the rings exist, it should be possible to locate those though, even if they are buried in sediment. >Why did the Atlanteans apparently not interact with the rest of the Mediterranean?the med would have been a very different place with very different people and the "antedeluvian atheneans" might just be a convenient name either the egyptians or solon used. maybe the meds battling atlantis was whoever build göbleki tepe. or someone else entirely. solons account also says that a big part of the med was under atlantean control, so they supposedly did interact with them. >Why is the island described as being massive, when the Azores are tiny?the azores plateau is massive. the current islands would have just been the tips of the mountains >but the plateau is much deeper than the amount of sea level riseisostatic depression/rebound. the western side of the north american plate was burdened with km thick ice sheets that depressed that end and lifted the eastern end (the mid atlantic ridge). those ice sheets melting would release pressure, lifting the west and plunging the east into the ocean> why were the islands uninhabited?everyone on the island died when it sank
The thing about these Graham Hancock types is that the 1. WANT to believe their wacky tales and 2. Refuse to even look at the widely available evidence that contradicts whatever the fuck they believeFor instance, If they bothered researching all the stuff we do actually know about the pre-columbian Americas (of which, contrary to popular belief, there is a lot) they'd know that in reality, there is a LOT more evidence in favor of, for example, the academic consensus of Tiwanaku being a powerful hegemonic city-state active in the andean highlands between 600 and 1000 AD, than for it being some 12 thousand year old atlantean port city from a time when the sea reached up to the Andes somehow. They also fail to account for basic shit, like how do they explain the fact that there's a clear gradual, clearly local development from Olmec earthen mounds to proper pyramids, most of the impressive examples of which only start cropping up at a time when the romans were already around? Or the fact that the pre-columbian civilizations, supposedly the ultimate proof of an ancient global society, did not use technologies like metallurgy, vital and universal in the old world since the very beginning, until medieval times? They seen straight up childish for anyone who actually knows what they're talking about
>>17985881Big Archaeology hid the buildings and artifacts and they used the nanobots in the covid vaccines to rewrite all the atlantean dnawake up
>>17985498this is unironically no more ridiculous than some of the shit academia expects you to believe about humanity's origins, they just hate him because it doesn't align neatly with *their* narratives.
>>17987609You write like a brownie, so I'm willing to disregard the content of this post :)
>>17985498>What if there was an ancient super civilization based on the coast of North America and Europe that left behind zero buildings or shipwrecks and never built anything inlandNot just North America and Europe, the buildings were destroyed in the Younger Dryas cataclysm and it would be nearly impossible for a boat to stay intact that long. The oldest known shipwrecks appear to be just piles of cargo. >What if it taught agriculture to all other civilizations, but didn't bring a common crop, but rather had everyone domesticate local crops for some reasonNo reason why not.>What if its sailors and merchants and whatever never had sex with the natives, so there's no genetic link or evidence of their existenceStatistically, practically everyone is descended from half of everyone who was alive 1000 years ago. Now multiply that by 10. >What if they built a road on a random Caribbean island that leads to AtlantisStrawman>What if this picture of a snake in Mexico is the same snake as this picture in EgyptWell? What if it is?>What if all of this was being covered up by the government and Big Archeology for hundreds of yearsIt's just people hating to admit they're wrong. Any frequenter of a Balinese Christmas tree forum should know. >Why no, I have no evidence for any of this, I'm just asking questions broStrawman
>>17988035>>What if they built a road on a random Caribbean island that leads to Atlantis>StrawmanThat's literally half of an episode of his show, is "this formation of rocks underwater near a Caribbean island was part of a road to Altantis."
>>17985498Big Archeology is the biggest joke if you have any friends or relatives in that field and you know how they have to get by.
