Who else here, who was initially right-wing, has transformed into a leftist, and more specifically a Marxist, since they simply started reading history and the work of Marx and Engels?The three volumes of "Das Kapital" have an answer for everything, and in the 21st century, it's incredible.
>>17987266No one, Marx was a demonic fucking kike who pawned his pants for food because he was too lazy to do prole work.
>>17987272Have you read "Das Kapital"?I became a leftist thanks to this board.
Marxism is literally meant to manipulate you. Many right-wing perspectives emphasize cultural values, often focusing on cultural explanations for social phenomena. This is meant to suck you in.
>>17987266I am Juche or third worldist possibly. The only really major thing which matters is foreign policy. Everything else like trans rights and culture war shit is window dressing. Keeping the US out of Russia and Iran is a must and it is why President Trump is best we had in decades.
>>17987266This board is violently allergic to politics and only want to talk about social issues like what color someone's hair is
>>17987272The Marxist that directly inspired Fascist syndicalism, Georges Sorel, and the Marxist that started the first Marxian Socialist political party, Henry Hyndman, were both conservatives before reading Marx. Hyndman especially was a member of the Tories
>>17987472>first Marxian Socialist political partyIn the UK*
>>17987266I agree with some parts of it but marx was a jew and communism was mostly proselytized by jews so ill never be a commie because of that. So ''national socialism'' is probably closest to what i believe in
>>17987472Shut the fuck up Judeo-Bolshevik provocateur
>>17987407Marx is left wing dumb faggot
>>17987266The reverse actually, reading through the stupidity of Das Kapital and the nonsense of Hegel cured me from leftism forever.
>>17987266Reading Marx pushed me away from the left. I really detested his answers and found Sam Francis more compelling, though significantly more problematic to take seriously initially. "Leviathan and it's Enemies" was the most brilliant use and inversion of the Marxist dialectic I have read. The real problem is that unlike Marx he doesn't even offer bad solutions, it's purely diagnostic.
Read Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin by Eckhart and then get back to me, pleb
His seething hatred for anybody that didn't agree with him and labeling them ideological enemies that should be killed is pretty infantile
>>17987266>who was initially right-wing, has transformed into a leftist, and more specifically a MarxistNever happens. Marx just doesn't answer cultural questions.
>>17987266I've become a leftist the moment I had to get a job and support myself.And by leftist I don't mean a terminal case of negrophilia, pretty sure Marx would be a nazi anyway by libtard standards
I was a Commie for a while, and then an edgy Libertarian, and eventually realized that Neoliberalism actually makes sense and doesn’t hinge on wild utopian fantasies and unquestionable dogmas like Objectivism/Marxism do
>>17987546>pretty sure Marx would be a nazi anyway by libtard standardsDefinitely, but Marxists have done such a poor job preventing liberal infection that they've basically undermined themselves. Stalin and Lenin called liberalism an infantile disorder and Mao wrote on combating liberalism and still today the majority of western socialists are liberals in prole clothing.
>>17987551>Neoliberalism actually makes sense and doesn’t hinge on wild utopian fantasies and unquestionable dogmasHoly wow. It's like that meme of the star trek utopian future that liberalism promised vs the gay dystopia it turned into.
Sorry I'm heterosexual.
>>17987546same. I was a committed libertarian until I got a job and saw how the "efficient" free market actually worked
>>17987565I'll admit, working and the difficulty of even getting good work is the best argument for socialism in general. I just think Marxism has too much baggage accrued for most people and not enough offense against liberalism.
>>17987565The economy is fake, markets are rigged by jews and big corpos.
>>17987272This
>>17987586>TRUE capitalism has never been triedonce you've seen the world lit by the sun, shadow puppets aren't convincing
>>17987266>The three volumes of "Das Kapital" have an answer for everything,I get some things from Marx but I don't think that's true. That goes too far and I don't think Marx himself would agree with that assertion.
>>17987553>Stalin and Lenin called liberalism an infantile disorder and Mao wrote on combating liberalism and still today the majority of western socialists are liberals in prole clothing.What do you mean by liberalism? Well, I think the reason people have become more liberal compared to the past is due to developments in society and the economy and this is also a global phenomenon.
>>17987618I was talking about today's economy. Free markets made America a superpower while communism brought only famines and failures.
>>17987649>Free markets made America a superpowerLOOOOOOOOOOOOOLstate backed companies that turned into literal explicit monopolies that turned into state regulated companies are now free markets everyonebtw the US was about 90% of the way to a command economy in ww2
>>17987638“Liberalism” in that sense means individualist attitude. Thinking one knows better than the collective is an example of liberalism. Mao wanted ‘mass line democracy’ where the collective determines everything as a group which would be opposed to individuals deciding stuff. Individual rights aren’t Marxist.
Flee politics and give yourself to Christ at all costs.
>>17987661Amen.
>>17987556Star Trek is Marxist, not Liberal. It’s quite literally a delusional post-scarcity fantasy. Liberals don’t believe in utopias. But there is certainly always room for improvement.
Hard right conservative in high schoolBleeding heart libleft type in universitySlowly drifted back right as wokeness took hold over the left (broke up with my gf who wanted me to go to a gay "pride" parade) Now I am drifting the opposite direction, basically a social democrat who loathes race/sex/gender identity politicsMy first priority though is independence for my country from the clutches of Canada/Ottawa, and I will work with anyone to accomplish this, conservative/liberal/socialist/communist/fascist/etc
>>17987780>independence for my country from the clutches of Canada/Ottawaquebecois or plains cuck?
>>17987908Bloc Albertois
>>17987910
>>17987266I was left leaning, became right wing, and now I do not care about either. I have not read Das Kapital but I might check it out now. Thanks anon, though I 100% believe communism is impossible and now would be the worse time than ever to attempt it. We need something else. A revolt I hate to say it, but even that could turn out bad. >>17987272I wouldn't mind taking care of the fat worthless turd but bringing a bunch of people from the third world is out of the question.
>>17987537I read this and its literally just Hitler and Eckhart going on the ultimate schizo JDS rant and saying how literally every major event in history since Moses was manipulated by Jews. Pure retarded slop.>>17987266Marxism is debunked utopians psuedo science
>>17987266this stupid faggot never worked a day in his lifelifetime freeloader like all his worshipers
>>17987276I read it when I was 5, and then I grew up and stop believing in fairytales.
>>17987660That was Mao's attitude, I'm not sure Marx would've agreed. You have to remember that Mao was a Chinese revolutionary.
My progression was all over the place >moderate conservative (10 yo)>communist (early teens)>technocrat/socialist (mid teens)>libertarian (late teens)>reactionary, big tent right-wing (20-21)>fascist/NatSoc (mid-late 20's)I need to do more reading in general, I'm pretty committed to my present beliefs but I want scoop up the good ideas from everyone else (barring Marx, I didn't need to read his works, just observing real people made a mockery of his ideas)
>>17988074You're not a normal or functional human being. People with functional brains tend to grow out of political identity by the time they're in their mid 20s
>>17987266No. Marx is a dunce philosophically speaking. Economics is not the soul driving force of history. Ideas exist prior to anything material.
>>17987266How "left" and "right" is used these days it's usually only referring to moral values alignmentWhy would you intentionally drift further away from your most precious possessions? (family, friends, people & homeland etc.)This is the inevitable result of progressivism. It's corrossive to healthy and evolutionarily adaptive life.
>>17987266I was the opposite. I started out very left wing when I was younger and even went to forums like revleft and shit back in the day. But as I got older I tended to become more and more conservative. Now I've gone basically full Hoppean ancap.
>>17987546>pretty sure Marx would be a nazi anyway by libtard standardsIf Marx was alive today he'd be arrested for hate speech. He'd probably flip his shit at seeing modern mass migration
>>17987266other way around.the more I read the more I understood why and how people intuitively developed into hierarchies. And the roll the balance between individual liberty and social security played. Reading my Marx-Engels Reader further pushed me away towards Hegel and the right Hegelians who understood more clearly that the idea and intention must necessarily comes before the material in terms of the order of operations in an object-subject relationship.
>>17987266quintessentially cringe. Imagine giving any substantial amount of your surpluses to people, not of your own will, or because they in any way deserve it, but simply because they exist.
>>17987618>TRUE capitalism has never been triedTrue in a way, at least in several countries.Capitalism is based on respect for private property.A country where theft and robbery constantly occur cannot actually be capitalist.Nobody will feel like working hard if the fruits of their labor can be stolen at any time.It is no coincidence that Japan and South Korea, known for their ferocious work culture, are also the only countries where you can sleep with your door open in a city without anything bad occurring
>>17987544This. Right and left wing are about culture, not economics. You can be an economic Marxist and be against e.g. feminism or immigration.
>>17987510National Socialism that was heavily funded by Jews?
>>17987969How many days work dud Adam Smith do?
>>17987266nothing in Marxism precludes race realism or national socialism so I am on board.
>>17988089Brain damage is no laughing matter, so I won't give you too hard a time. >tend to grow out of political identity by the time they're in their mid 20sPlease explain the last few millenia of human history. Prove with whatever semblance of an argument you can put together that political belief has a defined age limit, where it then disappears mysteriously after some arbitrary threshold. Tell everyone about how Napoleon, Garibaldi, Lenin, Bukharin, among others, all forgot about political identity.
>>17988273>"Hey guys I'm a Fascist!"Carries different weight than simply saying >"I sympathize with some fascist ideas"Because grown ass adults don't treat politics like their personality. Grow up you arrested development child.
>>17988302You're supposed to take the future and present seriously and make an active effort in shaping it to your liking. You're just an apathetic retard pretending to be mature
>>17988310This is just embarrassing man
>>17988312You are not capable of second-order thinking.
>>17988313You are in your late 20s and call yourself a fascist on his computer from the comfort of his moms house
>>17987266I was a leftist after reading Kapital in the HS library, and then became right wing after getting into history and learning about all the 'orible shit that leftists have done in pursuit of their dream.Theory is nice but at the end of the day, you can't come away with the impression (having examined the praxis) that communism is anything but an art project for bored intellectuals who wants to use the people's blood to create a vision of a dramatic/cathartic revolution.
>>17987266I've always been a blood and soil nationalist, and I still am a blood and soil nationalist, but I've grown rather fond of Marx and his works.
Marx does not understand labor or money, reading his labor theory of value should tell you all you need to know about how insanely simplistic his cognitive ability was.
>>17988302>>17988312>>17988314You're obviously a narcissist whining pedantically about other people in order to feel better about yourself.
>>17987510Marx was consciously pretty anti-semitic, but I suspect that he sub-consciously thought that his ideas were in the interests of the jews. However, I encourage nuance in this particular case, since that only held in the particular conditions when he was writing, and he was pretty insightful as a thinker.
I'm an unorthodox Marxist but I've recently become more sympathetic with the "socialist" wing of the Third Position (D'annunzio, Freda, Thiriart).
>>17988258Spoken like a true Stasserist tranny
>>17988324>Theory is nice but at the end of the day, you can't come away with the impression (having examined the praxis) that communism is anything but an art project for bored intellectuals who wants to use the people's blood to create a vision of a dramatic/cathartic revolution.Nicely put and insightful. I believe this was especially the case with all the rich Western college students you saw getting involved with Commie insurgent groups during the 60s and 70s
>>17987266What's wrong with capitalism? I feel good living in a capitalist country. If it ain't broken don't fix it
>>17988497Oh? You live in the 1800s with no welfare to speak of?
>>17988497Oh boy, prepare for the wild ride...
>>17987266I'm still right wing, but more critical of Capitalism
>>17987266Even tonnes of Conservatives still use Marxism and Leninism. It's pretty standard for Asian Conservative parties to have roots in Marxism and Leninism, I believe in Japan, Lenin was cited as the most influential western thinker even by LDP politicians. You also have the modern MAGA movement, which came out of a Trotskyist/Leninist adaption to conservative right politics (bannon and co) and famously, Neoconservative movement was born out of Trotskyism.
>>17988595>human natureAs if the average living organism out there is not a capital maximizer, eusocial animals in particular got no problems when it comes to wipe out useless or ill individuals and recycle for proteins.Economic efficiency it's like that.
>>17988608>and famously, Neoconservative movement was born out of Trotskyism."Neo-conservativism" is right-wing the same way a eunuch in a skirt is a woman
>>17987649Geography decides who is and isn't a superpower.
>>17988757Lady Maga!
>>17988595This image is midwit mucho texto. I'll give it to you in 4 sentences.>Humans evolved to be the absolute best in discerning reality because their mind is strong, although the body is frail compared to other lifeforms.>Because the mind is our primary method of survival and thinking is an individual activity, you must come to your own conclusions to live a good human life.>Therefore it is evil to initiate force on humans, because it is denying them their most important aspect, the mind.>Forceless society is a laissez-faire free market, consent is king.
>>17988766We already realize this in the difference between sex and rape, receiving a gift and stealing, euthanasia and murder. It's like that for literally everything.
>>17987266I was never really a convinced right winger, But was deeply influenced by the politics of this site and it's culture. Once I started reading books more thoroughly and concentrated on political discourse beyond just memes and culture war nonsense I discovered I am a far leftist.
>>17988766Evil is a spook.
>>17988780I use evil as a catchall word but if you insist you can replace it with "antithetical to human flourishing", "akin to cutting the wings off a bird" or even "big gay".
>>17988778So, like, uh, you think women can become men if they cut off their tits?You think white people are evil and non-whites can be as cruel as they want towards whites without repercussions?You think wealth should be distributed equally between those who work 12 hours a day and those who work 0 hours?You think prisons shouldn't exist except for people who openly criticise communism?
>>17988815> So, like, uh, you think women can become men if they cut off their tits?We do not have enough time in our lifetimes to experience the different sexes and genders - hence it is only fair that we can choose to be one or the other. There is no point in restricting choices, we should all be able to make a choice and not force that choice upon anyone.> You think white people are evil and non-whites can be as cruel as they want towards whites without repercussions?Racism is evil. There is no excuse for any kind of discrimination.> You think wealth should be distributed equally between those who work 12 hours a day and those who work 0 hours?I don't believe in equality. I believe in absolute freedom for all beings. Everyone should be allowed to get the same amount of food and water, as well as the right to own things. It is not that things should be equal, it is that things should be absolutely unequal. If a billionaire has a trillion dollars and a million people have $1 each, this means that a billionaire can decide to give away 10 billion dollars. That means the million poor people get rich too. Wealth should not be distributed equally, it should be absolutely and ridiculously unequally.> You think prisons shouldn't exist except for people who openly criticise communism?Prisons absolutely should exist, as should police forces, soldiers, etc. However, the laws should not restrict what people are allowed to say and think. It is perfectly okay for a person to say they don't want to work 8 hours a day and want to own a house. It is also perfectly okay for them to say that they believe communism is evil and that they will stab you if you come close to their children. Prisons should exist, however, if people speak the truth they should be free to do so.
>>17987472Is that supposed to mean anything? Inspire awe and admiration perhaps? Why are you amazed by an old-timey dude falling for an old-timey psyop, or "propaganda piece" of his generation. Damn dude, you're not on to some big 'ol thing, you're just a gullible fag!
>>17988903>"No one went from being a conservative to being a Marxist">"Two people went from being a conservative to being a Marxist">Is that supposed to mean anything?Yes?
>>17988604no, you are just an edgy leftist
>>17988927If you're so keen on believing anything you read, believe this. (you) are not a faggot, (you) will cease getting on your knees for pleasure, (you) are racist and homophobic in a respectful fashion irl, and completely unhinged and sovlfull online.
>>17988886>hence it is only fair that we can choose to be one or the other. There is no point in restricting choices, we should all be able to make a choice and not force that choice upon anyone.This rejects biological realities and thus Materialism. Gender can be a socialized expression of sex, but many gender behavior is rooted in biology and instinct. Even in new borns you see different behaviors and focuses between male and females. It also do not believe it's genuinely possible to change Socialization as well. Look at crime rates for trans biological males, they are just as bad, if not worse, than standard biological men and they largely match male criminal behavior, if a Trans biological male was truly a "woman" and had a female brain, they surely would have criminality rates that matched biological females.Also hate to be trite with this point, but as a guy who's played Warhammer since the 1990s. I have see more Trans Biological Males in my local GW store in a week, than I've seen women in that place since, well, the 1990s. Once again kind of showing, that male socialization is right there.Marxism was never about fairness or equality, both Marx and Engels rejected such notions.>There is no excuse for any kind of discrimination.Eh, even Marx and Engels straight up said it's justified to shoot Lumpenproles in the The Peasant War 1850. What if a culture is Lumpenized at it's core like Gypsies? Cultural Relativism is an anti-Socialist concept, it's perfectly in line with Socialist thought to say for example, Blacks have a fucking atrocious, sociopathic, lumpen culture based on narcissistic honor attitudes. One of the main points of Socialism is Socialists will change and eliminate cultures, creating a new Soviet man.
>>17987266The world Marx describes in Capital literally doesn't exist anymore. That's why most of volumes 2 and 3 were written by Engels, and why Marx spent the last years of his life doing cultural anthorpology (see: The Ethnological Notebooks of Karl Marx.)>and in the 21st century, it's incredible.Read "The Mirror of Production">All the fundamental concepts of Marxist analysis must be questioned… What is axiomatic about productive forces… about the motor of history? …The liberation of productive forces is confused with the liberation of man: is this a revolutionary formula or that of political economy itself? Almost no one has doubted such ultimate evidence, especially not Marx…>A specter haunts the revolutionary imagination: the phantom of production. …From the liberation of productive forces in the unlimited ‘textual productivity’ of Tel Quel to Deleuze’s factory-machine productivity of the unconscious, no revolution can place itself under any other sign. …If this is the truth of capital and of political economy, it is taken up whole by the revolution only to capital’s benefit.>In the distinction between exchange value and use value, Marxism shows its strength but also its weakness. The presupposition of use value… is only the effect of the system of exchange value, a concept produced and developed by it. Far from designating a realm beyond political economy, use value is only the horizon of exchange value.>Marx erects a ‘model’ of social structure and social change… It is illegitimate for Marxism to project its notion of the mode of production onto earlier social systems. The model of production prevents a sighting of the symbolic nature of exchanges in primitive society; it absorbs that society into its own likeness…
>>17987266you must be a tranny
>>17987266Marxism is just Christcuck 2.0
>>17987266Centre-left to neoconservatism.
>>17989544He remained a Trotskyist to his dying days. Him being a neocon Bush supperter who thought the Iraq War was justified is also logically consistent with this. He was a staunch Marxist atheist who was outspoken against Islamism while many other of his London intellectual marxist pussied out of of their sense of oikophobia. Hitchens didnt get the memo, Marxism is REALLy about oikophobic hatred of white people, not about establishing some sort of socialist world order based on materialism.
>>17987266How could you possibly want more government after studying history? baka.
>>17987266The capitalist project of associating "Marxism" with dumb liberal woke shit in the average persons mind was the most successful propaganda victory in human history.
>>17988815Always funny how opponents of Marx have to attack shit completely unrelated to Marxist ideology, instead of actually confronting his ideas. It's like trying to discredit Christianity by arguing against the doctrines of Islam.
>>17990341I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who sees this and it's depressing.
>>17987923>I 100% believe communismMarx was a genius at identifying problems.At proposing solutions....eh?Many such cases.
>>17987649>bomb the rest of the world into the middle ages >suddenly the biggest industrial power for decadesFree market = massive war to support communism?>>17990341You have to blame all the gay stuff going on in America on "marxism", because blaming the jews is basically illegal. Mutts don't read so they're never going to disagree or find out that marxist leaders generally regarded homosexuality as a degenerate bourgeoise curse. >>17990344Like it or not, Marx has been coopted as the intellectual rigor behind life's greatest questions, like "why am I gay?" and "why do I have to work?". It flourishes in universities where people are completely disconnected from reality and living off the governments teat.
>>17990959>marxist leaders generally regarded homosexuality as a degenerate bourgeoise curseThat's incidental. Homosexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with communism, positive or negative.
>>17990970Agreed. The point was to answer why American conservatives blame marxism for everything. >it promotes the "left vs right" uniparty agenda>the real answer is inconvenient, but you can blame the Frankfurt school >amerimutts dont read>marxism has been pasted to every random social issue by ivory tower socialists
>>17988766>>17988121The whole point of marxism is to reconcile the individual with collective society. I used to be a libertarian too until I realize that there are fundamental limits to consent, given that consequences made by private individuals in their pursuit of their objectives impact others too. Once you realize that, you realize that norms (like laws and regulations) need to be created so that individuals agree to not unconsesusally impact each other (or to the extent that they agree to) by agreeing on certain principles. Once you've got this foot in the door, you quickly realize that the only arguments for other systems than marxism boil down to religious dogma, pragmatism (liberals) and immature ideologies (lolberts).Ironically enough, the libertarian movement is very slowly coming to terms with this and would fits largely in the last category. Stuff like the NAP, paternalism (Nudge by Thaler), or that text that rothbard (iirc) made about nukes being "illogical" in a lolbert world should be enough to show the limits of ancap/libertarians.>natural order works bestThe notion of something working better than something else presupposes objectives synonymous with good. In the case of libertarianism, it's both not the best system to create wealth given that mixxed economies perform better and not the best system for consent since it allows for individuals to impede others the most.Overall, libertarianism is to marxism what kant is to hegel. Kant gave us an idealist philosophy that systemized the modern notion of the individual as foundational to any philosophy. Hegel brought back that subjectivity in line with objective reality, in a sense reconciling the subjective with the objective without denying the former's agency.Marxism is similar to that logic to libertarianism in that it realizes that the individual can't be taken for isolated and exalts his individualism through the state by stripping him of his alienation.
>>17991282Well I recognize the need for hierarchy and cooperation too. That's what led me to Hoppe. Where ideas like covenant communities make sense where everyone within X area is free to decide the system that works for them. I'm not averse to hierarchy, leadership roles, etc. At least more open to it than most libertarians I speak to who seem very fixated on just the self. What do you suggest? Like your ideal system or whatever it is.Are you a full on Marxist or something else?
>>17991401>Where ideas like covenant communities make sense where everyone within X area is free to decide the system that works for themI see so a sort of municipalist theory ?>What do you suggest?A gradual change in the economic and social order through reforms to avoid the same mistakes comitted by communist parties during the 20th century. The introduction of state-owned companies as a mean to let the workers have a chance to work for themselves, the creation of better and efficient dialogues between the capitalist and their employee, more local democracy that would also have a role in the economy. In a way I don't wish to impose marxism on a society at-large but rather to have it be a gradual shift that workers and individuals take part in by showing to them that it is more "rational" for them do so. Ideally, the state wouldn't force the "bourgeoisie" to give up their power, but rather develop an alternative for the workers making the former bourgeoisie naturally and "reasonably" redundant. >Like your ideal system or whatever it isI don't consider myself belonging to a neat and precise "case". In short, you could say that I've come to the conclusion, after reading many works (Rand's objectivism, various modern and contemporary liberal thinkers, libertarian works, socialist & marxists work etc), that only marxism effectively reconciles Man with society in a rational way for the individual within him.
>>17991492Sounds like you are describing trade unionism to me.
>>17987266you were never truly right wing. We don't call it "redpilling" for no reason. Once you are aware of certain things you can't go back
>>17992421People backslide or change all the time.
>>17987266Theres no difference between late stage capitalism and communism both a system in which a rich elite statecorp owns everything and you the stupid proletariaat goy own nothing, its a bourg trick made by a jew who never worked and lived off the rich elites money to speedrun late stage capitalism, why? Well marx wrote allot of letters to Theodor Herzel
>>17987266Yes I hit my head and become a leftist
>>17987266I think if you read Marx and become a Marxist you probably have an inability to actually reason for yourself. The only reasonable response to reading Marx is realizing the man didn't bother thinking anything out. A lot of it is rambling about how he wants things to be and no explanation of how.
>>17990951Read it again
>>17988815>right wing is when you hate niggers
the average 4channer, including on /his/ only gets his info on communism from pop history memes and 60 second shorts on tiktok/instagram/yt, you're barking at the sky here
>>17987266Not transformed, but after having read Erich Fromm, who is fascinated by Marx, I have warmed up to some of the ideas there. Sadly, contemporary Marxism is supposedly as removed from Marx as psychology today is removed from Freudian psychoanalysis. Most Marxist takes I see online definitely are dogshit.
