how Spain superpower when no one live ther?
>>17990812That's the thing anon, it wasn't. It got a headstart from all the incan and aztec gold that carried it for a century or so but after that everyone centralised and modernised their economy and governments and could slap spain about as they wished.
>>17990868Literally not true.Spain became a hegemony because silver from the Americas and marriage. The Spanish habsburg ended up controlling a quarter of Europe more or less.It failed for the same reason most hegemony fails: expensive wars.Spanish hegemony rose in the 1500s for said reasons, and declined on the 1600s.It started to wage war everywhere, most of thr conflicts were linked to the reformation (80 years war/Dutch revolution, 30-years war, armada on England etc). Spanish economic mismanagement was a central part of Spanish hegemony decline but that was largely due to inflation.Successor hegemony was the French hegemony under Louise the sun king which ended the same way: expensive wars. The entire 1700 was marked by major wars which France lost to England (Spanish succession war, Seven years war, Austria succession war, Revolution wars/Napoleonic wars).The successor hegemony became Britain after winning through the 1700 and rapid industrialization in early 1800, and then the British hegemony declined due to (guess what) expensive wars.
>>17990878>Spain became a hegemony because silver from the Americas and marriage. The Spanish habsburg ended up controlling a quarter of Europe more or less.Entirely through luck and not merit, they were in the correct geographical position along with portugal to reach the new world, they didn't have existentially threatening external or internal enemies, they were just retards who spent the last 700 years chimping out against non-christians and felt no need to change their ways. Had the trastamarids not died out and they didn't get entangled in central european politics they still would've still ended up a stagnant shithole dependant on gold from the new world. Everyone else invested their colonial wealth, spain spent it, it caught up to them after the 30 years war when just about everyone larger than portugal matched them in power and eventually surpassed them.
>>17990991>Everyone else invested their colonial wealthIIRC Jacob Viner and others showed that, economically, colonialism always sucked and cost more than it produced in revenue, even if some forms of colonialism were particularly retarded in their wastefulness. I think maybe the Dutch were the only ones who might have made it somewhat profitable and even then I'm not sure considering the constant expenditure of military resources and manpower their colonies demanded.
>>17990812Money from colonies and military might. Also Spain wasn't a superpower until Charles V when they had control of the Netherlands (one of if not the richest parts of Europe), Lombardy (one of the most developed parts of Europe), and Sicily and Naples (the centre of the Mediterranean). There's a reason the Spanish fought the Dutch for 80 years before giving up, it would be like modern Britain without the greater London area, a huge chunk of its economy gone.
>>17990812The same than Ottoman Empire. Anatolia and Greece were barely populated. It was the plus of all the inhabitants of Spain, Italy, America, Philippines and Flanders that made up the population.>>17991046Spain was a power before Charles I. Aragon kicked the French out of Sicily during XIII century and then expanded into North Africa and Athens. Catholic Kings expelled French from Naples and conquered it. Also expelled the French from Italy.The political marriage with the Habsbourgs that was led by Ferdinand of Aragon, who also married his other daughter to Henry VIII of England, was just made to cuck French from warmonggering. Aragon also out two Spanish Borgia popes that basically gave Castile the rights over America.The role of Ferdinand of Aragon was the pillar of Spanish empire, even Philip II wrote about it. The very emperor of HRE, Ferdinand I, was raised by Ferdinand the Catholic while Charles I was raised in Netherlands.
>>17990878Spain became an hegemon because of Trastamaras. Machiavelli based "Il Principe" around Caesar Borgia and Ferdinand of Aragon.>The King of France complains that I have twice deceived him. He lies, the fool; I have deceived him ten times and more.—Ferdinand the CatholicThe Spanish army during XV, XVI and XVII centuries was at its peak after centuries of war against Arabs. The Tercios were the first modern army in Europe after the Dark Ages.
>>17990868>It got a headstart from all the incan and aztec gold that carried it for a century or soYou could say the same about all empires. Like how Britain used the India cheat code to get rich as fuck.
>>17991067>Spain became an hegemon because of Trastamaras.True, the Trastamaras were the true architects of the Spanish Empire. A shame the Habsburgs took over and squandered all of the progress they did.
>>17991498Not really, Britain wasn't the first european nation to get to India and by the time they were there the Indians had guns and missiles. Meanwhile the Spanish stumbled upon a previously unknown continent, filled with gold and populated by people who barely knew how to use iron. They got given it by the pope and had a full century of it all to themselves before anyone else showed up in force.
>>17992493Spain peaked with Habsbourgs at military power, political influence, arts, humanities, etc. The authentic decline was under Bourbons.
>>17990991O algo ese ese>>17991046Spain was already the main european power during the rule of the catholic king
>>17992511You say that as if Spain is the only country in Europe with an Atlantic coast.That the other took more than a century to catch up is not Spain problemAnd Spain was anyway the main military power of Europe before the Azyec and Inca conquest
>>17993082And for worse because among Atlantic nations, Spain had a worse position than Britain and Morocco which had a direct link to the maritime routes of the north Atlantic and south Atlantic. The Canary Islands were a base from where the ships made stops before taking the south atlantic route.Britishand French lasted almost 2 centuries to start their own naval expansion projects and Moroccans never did it.
>>17993070The Habsburg project was entirely based on the Trastamara one, but worse, because Spain wasted so many time, men and money in defending the low countries, problem that the Trastamara wouldn't have had, in the first place.
Spain was never as economically strong as England.
>>17993567Bourbons directly had not a political project besides using Spain as paypig colony of France. You may hate all you want the Habsbourgs but they kept, as you say, the political project of Trastamaras and expanded an empire into its peak.
>>17993079>during the rule of the catholic kingWho is?
>>17991061>two Spanish Borgia popes that basically gave Castile the rights over AmericaThis is an exaggeration. If the Pope was really that biased, he would have kicked Portugal out of the Americas, thing that didn't happen, but should have.
>>17993082>You say that as if Spain is the only country in Europe with an Atlantic coast.Aye, but it is it also the one furthest away from the gulf stream and the easterly winds and closest to the Westerly winds of the tropics. There's a reason French and English sailors traveled down to Spain when they wanted to sail to the Americas, even when in opposition to that country. >That the other took more than a century to catch up is not Spain problemWhy not? They controlled the existing trade routes and got the pope to disallow other catholics colonizing lands. >And Spain was anyway the main military power of Europe before the Azyec and Inca conquestIrrelevant to my point and something I doubt. >>17993289The British did charter a sailor - Cabot and he discovered... Newfoundland, a territory worthless to all but fishermen. Spain's closeness to the westerly winds of the tropics gave it the advantage over England to be able to access the true riches of the new world. Your statement is however true of Morocco and I suppose much of Africa. But they're not European so meh.
>>17993289And they started their naval expansion BECAUSE THEY STOLE the naval maps from the Spaniards in some raids. They literally copied the maps because they did not know how to really navigate the oceans and the currents.
>>17994157>and he discovered... Newfoundland, a territory worthless to all but fishermenNewfoundland was discovered by Basque whalers.
>>17990991>Entirely through luck and not merit, they were in the correct geographical position along with portugal to reach the new worldAnd yet Portugal proceeded to do nothing with Brazil for about 200 years.
>>17994688They founded cities, evangelized natives, and had plantations there, like sugar, which was highly profitable before gold was found. When the gold rush started, Brazil exploded in population and was the biggest gold producer in the world, which contributed heavily to building the country
>>17993701The first Bourbons were not bad, but the ones after Charles III? Yeah
>>17990812Population was more important in those times because you could raise bigger armies but even in that time it was more important having a good economy, intelligent people and armed forces.Tell me how Portugal or The Netherlands got so powerful when they are not even the biggest european nations in terms of population or land.
>>17991061>Aragon kicked the French out of Sicily during XIII century No, they kicked a Frenchman out of Sicily.>then expanded into North Africa and AthensAnd lost it all>Catholic Kings expelled French from Naples and conquered it. No, they expelled a French guy from Naples.>Also expelled the French from Italy.The Italian Wars were under the Hapsburgs who had control over Spain, its colonies, the low countries, and Austria. Spanish power wasn't treated seriously until the Italian Wars.
>>17995856>No, they expelled a French guy from Naples.Yes, the King of France, the man who represented all Frenchmen.
>>17990878no it failed because of usurystick to wikipedia edit wars
>>17994657Newfoundland was discovered by the Irish monk St Brendan the Navigator
Quality over quantity, also the terrain made it difficult to have such large populations. France and germany had it so easy having endless plains and fields to farm as well as navigable rivers, from the alps and the pyrenees.
>>17991061>Aragon kicked the French out Catalans did that
>>17996373>Newfoundland was discovered by the Irish monk St Brendan the NavigatorA monk that did not know how to write a book telling us that supposed discovery? He did not discover anything or was not smart enough to know that he discovered an island.
>>17996398Cope Columbus didn't think he had discovered anything new
>>17996476>Columbus didn't think he had discovered anything newThat is why he took Spanish navigators and priests. because they knew that they discovered something big and wrote about them in several chronicles.The merit was not Columbus. The merit was the Spanish sailors, soldiers, historians, priests, governors,etc. In fact, Columbus was almost going back to Spain after some weeks but an experimented sailor told him to wait because he has just seen some coastal birds and they found America 3 days later.
>>17996616>In fact, Columbus was almost going back to Spain after some weeks but an experimented sailor told him to wait because he has just seen some coastal birds and they found America 3 days later.How is possible to know that happened? Because another sailor said that happened?
>>17997074Yes, there is a well-known episode in Christopher Columbus's first voyage where the sighting of birds played a crucial role in convincing the crew that land was near. This event is documented in Columbus's journal, as transcribed by Bartolomé de las Casas. The Role of Birds in Indicating LandAccording to the journal, on September 14, 1492, the crew of the Niña observed a type of tern that never ventures more than twenty-five leagues from land. This observation was significant because it suggested that land was nearby. Later, on September 17, a tropic bird was seen, which does not sleep at sea, further indicating proximity to land. Then, on September 19, a pelican came aboard, a species not accustomed to venturing more than twenty leagues from shore. These sightings provided hope and reinforced the belief that land was close Archivo Americano. Journal ReferenceThese entries are part of the journal that Columbus kept during his voyage. The original manuscript has been lost, but Bartolomé de las Casas made a transcription in the 16th century, which serves as the primary source for these accounts. The journal covers events from August 3, 1492, to March 15, 1493, and includes detailed descriptions of the voyage, encounters with indigenous peoples, and observations of the natural environment Wikipedia. Significance of the Bird SightingsThe sightings of these birds were pivotal moments in the voyage. They not only provided tangible evidence that land was near but also boosted the morale of the crew, who had been growing increasingly anxious and skeptical about the journey. These observations exemplify how sailors of the time relied on nature's signs to navigate and make critical decisions during long voyages.
>>17990812Why does noone want to live in Spain anyway? You'd think being the most visited country in the world would mean people were also flocking to live there, but no.
>>17990812It was a vassal of the Habsburgs and Vatican
>>17992493Trasmataras and Habsburgs were both Germanic clans. That’s why Spain failed.
>>17997286Making a life for yourself has different requirements from having an enjoyable vacation. When visiting for a short time you don't have to worry about what to do for work or the monotony of a year round hot climate, or the expensive real estate in the areas that attracted you to the country in the first place. There's also the fact that the country's immigration policy may not be welcoming to people attempting to settle permanently.
>>17997286LOL. You are obvious a new worlder. There are like 2-3 million northEuropean retirees living all the year in Spain: from the nordics, UK, Germany, Dutch, etc.
>>17994765>*Enslaved nativesFixed
>>17994169Spain joining the Seven Years' War after Britain was already steamrolling is funny as fuck.
