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>>17995821
They don't
Check-out africans, mexicans and lots of Asian populations, and with we talk about the ancient peoples, we have the Celts who were matrilineal and matriarchal (britons), ancient Anatolian farmers, Neolithic iran and Neolithic China.
Germanics were also proto-feminists

>>17995821
Sexual dimorphism

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>this thread

>>17995821
Women tend to use social fiat instead of actual goods when trading, this results in a society that specifically says it's the goodest, most generous and equal utopia there is because it's actually extremely evil, stingy and strictly hierarchical society possible.
There also is an argument regarding hypergamy and it's resultant high time preference society but that also includes males to interact with.
>>17995887
Literally all of those "civilizations" are second rate at best and slave/genocide fodder at worst
You can directly correlate however successfull they were by however much they abondoned such practices in favor of discord chud tier westabooism

>>17996017
Exchange medium in society is largely symbolic, not material. Transactions are about status, perception, and social signaling rather than mutual material or productive value.

>>17995821
Because men inherently know sex is easily acquired by women as opposed to them. Its a survival strategy otherwise you get the contemporary west. You won't get a non-incel answer and almost all religions intrinsically know this. Its modern science thats trying to invert this fundamental fact.

>>17996038
Economy isn't zero sum, social credit is. They are not interchangeable, you think effeminately.
Material goods dictate your life as without them you literally die, all social symbolism must be based on material reality and women tend to not realizie this.
Because you don't really think about plumbing without having to work on smelly pipes.

>>17995821
Depends. How would you frame my company paying women less despite many of them taking the same hours of work and credentials and not having kids or taking long parental leaves?

>>17996017
>Literally all of those "civilizations" are second rate at best and slave/genocide fodder at worst
>You can directly correlate however successfull they were by however much they abondoned such practices in favor of discord chud tier westabooism
Lmao fucking retard.

>>17995821
Men are stronger than women and humans are somewhat selfish.

>>17996669
>Men are stronger than women
Both get before in any encounter with an animal if they don't have anything on hand.

>>17996679
The point was about humans capacity to brutalize each other, not survive in the wild.

>>17995821
The natural impulses of women are generally detrimental to state and society, which is built by men for men to defend against other men. Nature and wild animals used to be a factor too, once upon a time.

Feminists unironically think this can be changed, but they only undermine their country until its no more or taken over.

>>17996038
Modern midwit s*y reddit man

>>17996694
>The natural impulses of women are generally detrimental to state and society
Ones that people never really define.
>which is built by men for men to defend against other men.
You mean throwing teens and mid 20 men at each other until the other side collapses?

>Feminists unironically think this can be changed, but they only undermine their country until its no more or taken over.
What does one get out of antagonizing women exactly?

>>17995821
Even today the overwhelming place for females is at bottom and very strict gender roles. Some in the US, Western Europe can move up and free to make their own life choices however large immigrant populations in each continue to place females at bottom. In all patriarchy rules

Depends on your subsistence pattern.

Hunter-Gatherers don’t treat women terribly different from men, and they live pretty free. Women contribute 70% or more of the food, so they have a much bigger say in their own lives and the lives of men. General daily labor is distributed fairly equally between men and women. Control over reproduction is limited to avoiding incest, preventing rape, and individual jealously between partners.

Horticulturalists are similarly pretty egalitarian between genders, although greater material wealth means that men prefer having daughters since women do the bulk of the work. So more daughters and wives means more employees, and better yet employees who can produce new employees for you. Since women are the foundation of economic prosperity, they get a big say in what happens in society. Inheritance and descent is usually traced from mother to daughter and maternal uncle to nephew. Because of this, fear of sexual infidelity leaving men cheated out of their inheritance is limited or non-existent. Men in these cultures have to prove their worth much harder than men in other subsistence types since they’re economically redundant and can’t make babies. Hence the custom of “bride-price” rather than dowry.

In pastoralist cultures, we see probably the biggest restrictions of women’s rights. Due to pure biology, men have superior upper body strength and thus are better at wrestling, guarding, and tending large animals like cattle and camels and horses and so on. Heavy physical exertion can cause women to miscarry too. Because of this, men are the breadwinners. So the opinions of women don’t mean shit. Livestock is a highly mobile form of wealth, so it’s easy to steal. Thus male family bonds are much closer than in other subsistence types. You depend on your male kin to help protect your herds, and even help you steal herds from other tribes.

>>17996732
>Some in the US, Western Europe can move up and free to make their own life choices however large immigrant populations in each continue to place females at bottom
You made some errors off both assumptions.

Higher order brain functions like empathy and love for other people is a luxury of prosperous societies. If times are tough then more brutal selfish instincts govern their behaviors.

>>17996749
>Higher order brain functions like empathy and love for other people is a luxury of prosperous societies
Not really. They still exist outside of those in copious amounts.
>If times are tough then more brutal selfish instincts govern their behaviors.
You say that despite many people displaying that behaviour in abundant amounts in peaceful and stable periods.

>>17996746
No. There are some Caucasian females in North America and Western Europe that can and do live independent because they have financial freedom from a man. However the vast majority of immigrant populations do not allow that at all. The number of females globally that have the opportunity of free choice independent of a man is very small.

>>17996736
So a deal is made. You promise your sons, grandsons, and maybe even paternal nephews that they will inherit a chunk of your herds in return for their loyalty. If daughters marry out to unrelated groups, their dowry (the payment for taking on a burdensome girl instead of a strong boy) often takes the form of livestock. That means animals leave the herd line and may not return. Pastoralist life is often precarious: herds can be wiped out by drought or disease. Marrying cousins reinforces trust and obligations inside the family. In societies where raiding, migration, or ecological stress is common, that tight family circle is a kind of insurance. Thus, tight control of women is crucial. If she has sex with anyone besides her husband, she jeopardizes the structure of the entire family and clan and maybe even tribe. Virginity must be guaranteed. Generation by generation this becomes even more jealously guarded. Women stay indoors or close to the tents/huts doing comparatively meager labor, attending small animals like goats or sheep at the most.

Agriculturalists (plow users) lean towards the Pastoralist dynamic, but not as extreme usually. Since parcels of land shrink with each generational inheritance, cousin marriage tends to be discouraged more often. Only so much land can go to anyone, so it usually goes to either the eldest son or the youngest son, who has the duty of caring for the parents in old age. The sons in between are kinda screwed in ascending or descending order. You want your sons to marry OUTWARDS to gain new lands for themselves and the family at large. This means making friends and allies with strangers is important. Plow agriculture is just as taxing on the body as pastoralism, so women aren’t as economically productive as men, and by extension their opinions matter less.

Western culture is rooted primarily in the agricultural dynamic and to a lesser extent the pastoralist dynamic.

>most societies require physical strength for shit
>women are weaker
>so men have more societal clout
>evolve to a society where physical strength isn't really that important anymore
>women can perform most of the jobs men can
>women move up in society

not complicated anon.

>>17996756
>The number of females globally that have the opportunity of free choice independent of a man is very small.
Lol.

>There are some Caucasian females in North America and Western Europe that can and do live independent because they have financial freedom from a man.
Ibwouldn't call that freedom. Not to mention many get railroaded it to certain paths due to cultural biases and norms. There's a reason femal STEM enrollment in western universities are so concentrated in a few fields rather than being spread out like for males. Not to mention how often workplaces treat the hypothetical fertility of a woman as a ticking time bomb. Western states are too super self congratulatory about how much "progress" they made.

>>17996755
Nothing is more dangerous than a sexually frustrated insecure male and throughout human history most males fall into this group. They perceive a slight or want something some other person has they will use violence to take it and usually not alone. You have roaming gangs of pricks with hard ons that raped and pillaged their way across every continent. Yes some circle the wagons to protect what they may create and steal from others (including females) but as they are out doing the same another gang of hard ons is back dooring them. To be a little fair. There has always been a top dick and his bros that selfishly took that position from another selfish dick and his bros leaving the overwhelming populations no more than lacking slaves.

>>17996757
The agricultural dynamic was able to persist in Western society through the Industrial era, where the physical demands of heavy factory labor meant that not much needed to change, albeit people became more mobile and less tied to the land. People no longer directly produced for themselves, but depended on SELLING labor. With time, the traditional dynamic became more of a status symbol or aspiration. Women (especially among the lower classes) often had to work outside the home anyway, embarrassing their husbands. The economic reality was at odds with the economic ideal. Restrictions on women’s rights became more ideological than practical.

That dynamic finally collapsed with the modern service economy and the birth control pill. Male and Female labor became equally valuable again, so women got an equal say in what happens to themselves in society. No longer dependent on the village or clan for survival, every person’s economic strategy could become more individualized. Female chastity collapsed as a prerequisite for marriage and inheritances. Proper legal codes enforce property boundaries. Service economies don’t reward cousin marriage or distance family alliances or class-sealed matches as much as dual-career partnerships. Couples increasingly choose partners based on education, career trajectory, romantic love, and shared values.

>>17996767
>male STEM enrollment in western universities
Those jobs are vanishing just like large secretarial pools to advancement in technology.

>>17996782
>Those jobs are vanishing
Lmao they aren't vanishing.

>>17996794
Yes they are and that will accelerate with self learning algorithms

>>17995821
Based. Simple evolutionary psychology. Men are physically stronger and were the primary hunters/warriors. This created a default power dynamic where protection was traded for control. Agriculture and inheritance laws cemented that shit. Not saying it's morally right, just that it's a persistent historical pattern, not a global conspiracy (muh patriarchy).

>>17996811
>self learning algorithms
Are super shitty and basically require re-hiring people to clean up their outputs.

>>17996705
>Ones that people never really define.
Classic one is that women don't define themselves through their loyalty and allegiances as much as men do, or derive their status/rank from their contributions or usefulness to their society (politics, military, economy, etc) therefore they are more inclined to act outside if not against it. In ancient terms, this is basically the same thing as lacking honor and why women were viewed as naturally without it.

If men act outside of these boundaries, they view it as their death or at least a grave failure, whereas women are more flexible. This means that the institutions, culture and society, etc, that everything rests upon is vulnerable with female influence.

This isn't really controversial, feminists know this, they just call it patriarchy and believe it should be destroyed. The problem is that while you subvert and destroy these things, you don't really create any viable and realistic alternatives, and outside forces who still function in a patriarchal way smell weakness.


>You mean throwing teens and mid 20 men at each other until the other side collapses?
Yes. Bands of humans coming to take your shit has been a threat for hundreds of thousands of years and you're not going to think that problem away or solve it with empathy.

>What does one get out of antagonizing women exactly?
A patriarchal society doesn't really antagonize women as long as they don't step out of line. Quite the opposite, really. They are babied and praised for their innocence.

>>17996815
>Agriculture and inheritance laws
Made and enforce by men. You also omit the mind fuckery of religion that put woman at bottom. Even the 2000 yo social hierarchy, strict class and gender roles of Confucius lives to this day in east Asia. Scholars (all male) using "reason" twisted and bent and made laws all to keep a woman a slave

>>17996825
>define themselves through their loyalty and allegiances as much as men do, or derive their status/rank from their contributions or usefulness to their society (politics, military, economy, etc)
Oh and important to add, men are like this because they, compared to childbearing women, are naturally useless and replaceable. They need it to justify their existence.

>>17996829
That's basically the same shit when whites told blacks that they are naturally slaves. A bunch of crap, lies and gaslighting to create a culture that benefits the few...

>>17996819
It will not be long and you won't need that cleanup. Sure those written 6, 7 years ago required a human monitor but the % of correct outcomes continues to increase. With some its gone from low 90's and now 99%. Not there but it will happen and it will surpass a human. It interacts with 10's of millions of humans every second of every day in every language on the planet.

Even when economics no longer required male dominance, cultural inertia carried forward the hierarchy.

>>17996834
You are correct. But black african slaves of some white north american is a pimple on the fat ass representing the billions of humans enslaved by other humans (male and female). Use the threat of violence and become top dog then you make the rules and every one serves you.

>>17995821
>(not an incel thread)
I can give answers.
Which youve already told me you dont want.
So I guess because of the patriarchy?

>>17996815
Women in HG societies are overall treated as equals with men. Meat eating is traditionally more of a semi-regular treat than the big lifeline. So women produced about 70% of all food consumed. Women trapping and shooting game is less common than men doing it, but certainly not unheard of.

Men and stronger and more disagreeable on average.

>>17995821
Women lack ambition a lot of the time.

>>17996736
>WOMEN CONTRIBUTE 70 % of the food
nice try retard

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It's actually very simple
We come from monkeys, read about the chimpanzee, our closest cousins;
Their community is male-dominated and hierarchical, with a dominant alpha male at the top, and males form strong bonds to defend their territory. (This is very common n nature, it's the same with Gorillas)
Now a lot of people like to deny this simple fact but human males are stronger (and taller) than females, so... think logically, Imagine we have to move as a group from point A to point B because we don't have resources in A anymore, and moving to a different place is very dangerous, we don't know what other wild beasts we are going to find along the way. Who's going to be the lead? Who's going to fight to defend the group? Who's going to be the strongest fighter with more experience? 99.9% of the time; a male
Now, we don't only have physical differences, we also have huge mental differences between men and women, but If I mention those you are going to call me an incel, not that I care
Now of course, in this modern society it doesn't matter that much, and women can be great leaders, but it makes sense why in ancient times things were the way they were

>>17995821
Having considered why women in those cultures cover the women to thoroughly, I can imagine it's to avoid fostering jealousy between males, and for women they can feel desirable all the time: "I'm so sexy that if I were uncovered everyone would instantly try and rape me" is a type of culturally approved sex-game ironically boosting the esteem of every woman. Each woman also being covered encourages the covering of other women, and keeping other women down is what women love to do most across most cultures I'd reckon.

>>17996976
And during the time men are protecting and attacking the neighbors they don't do shit but lay around boasting who has the bigger dick, telling women to bring them a beer and wife raping their wife. Meanwhile women are foraging, growing, trapping, fishing, carrying water, collecting firewood, cooking, making garments and footwear, building and repairing shelter and coming up with ideas to make everyones life easier everyday all day, all while pregnant.

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>>17995821
Female homo sapiens sapiens have an uncommonly (compared to other mammals) difficult time with pregnancy and child-rearing, meaning they have to spend a significant amount of resources and time with reproduction, leaving men with the control of resource production and distribution, and by implication, of females. This is so prevalent that females have evolved to delay and avoid reproduction as much as possible (the fact that the average age of menarche is 17 in hunter-gatherer groups, menopause, etc.)

impregnating a woman is literally a form of domination because it renders her unable to fend for herself in a survival situation. say what you will about feminists but they are objectively correct in advocating for birth control.

>>17995821
>Why do so many cultures place women lower in the hierarchy
Because most cultures are not christian.

>>17996679
But the man's instinct is to fight while the woman's instinct is to scream on top of her lungs so men can run towards her.
Men evolved to run towards women's screams and women evolved to scream when they encounter a predator or a violent animal.

>>17997123
Sure thing bud.

>>17995821
It's probably because women are just so much better at the whole *life* thing.

Men were like...

> We'll take the made-up titles and loud arguments

While women were busy literally creating and sustaining all of humanity. The hierarchy is just men trying to win a game they invented to feel important since they can't do the main quest...

>>17997305
The main quest can't start without a man though.

>>17995821
>Why do so many cultures place women lower in the hierarchy
Because female nature is self-evident. Also it's not "many cultures" it's literally all cultures anywhere that ever achieved anything resembling civilization. Even civilizations that seem to give women power only manage this by still giving men all the overt authority and titles, so that they are at least "in charge" on society's face, while women control things from less public positions of influence (see: Sparta, Minoans, etc)

>>17997164
>the fact that the average age of menarche is 17 in hunter-gatherer groups, menopause, etc
that might be true for modern tribes but it isn't true historically
>Data from skeletal remains suggest that in the Paleolithic woman menarche occurred at an age between 7 and 13 years, early sexual maturation being a trade-off for reduced life expectancy. In the classical, as well as in the medieval years, the age at menarche was generally reported to be at approximately 14 years, with a range from 12 to 15 years. A significant retardation of the age at menarche occurred in the beginning of the modern times, soon after the industrial revolution, due to the deterioration of the living conditions, with most studies reporting menarche to occur at 15-16 years.

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>>17996668
>No(0) arguments against
Let me deliberate for your nigger understanding;
Whatever succeses they had can be directly correlated to however much they abandoned their nigger ways in favor of westabooism

I don't even understand how living in super repressive societies like the Taliban-controlled Afghanistan is supposed to be pleasant for men. I don't like the idea of my wife being confined to home and needing my guardianship to go anywhere, sounds like a huge chore honestly. Plus such a gender segregated society sounds like it would lead to rampant down low gay sex.

>>17997305
Women need to eat to survive femcel. Usually they get fucked until preggers and their husband feeds them. Not to diminish the social role of women in a farm but the man usually builds, maintains and mostly operates the farm, with his family's help rather than the other way around.
Have you ever critized or investigated your morality? Try a more classical approach rather than enlightenment slop

>>17997395
>Women should be let
On a leash, just let church fags with their chastity vows operate a social hierarchy that genocidally exterminates whores.
>Women should be whores
Mass niggerification of society
>People who don't like whores are gay
Not everyone is Jewish or Russian

>>17997405
Male-only spaces almost always devolve into rampant gay sex or pedophilia, look at the military (especially navies), boarding schools, Boy Scouts, gym culture, prisons, etc. it's why having camp whores following militaries was so important historically, you need to give your men a pressure release valve.

>>17997428
That's because men are inherently pedophilic. The only reason they have sex with women is to create children so they could rape them. Fucking disgusting. Moids explain yourself.

>>17997428
This a foid fantasy
Navy are horny not gay, that's a 70s trope, wives are better than camp whores and lumberjacks generally aren't gay as far as i know
>>17997431
Well we'd have to fuck you first, you can't even fuck yourself properly to have babies

>>17997470
>Navy are horny not gay
>lumberjacks generally aren't gay
this hetero has no idea what he's saying

>>17997395
This is another problem. Everything thinks ~traditional gender roles~ means permaseething arab manlet syndrome. It's not quite like that. Whites have and can do it in a graceful way.

Remember, western women used to wear scarves too not too long ago

>>17997497
Yeah it would be much easier to argue for "traditional values" by appealing to pre-modern European history, rather than by appealing to modern Arabic/Islamic states which nobody actually wants to live in, even Arabs. The only Islamic states with any sort of immigration are ultra-rich city states in the UAE.

>>17997365
>esl seethe the post
yikes

Pastoralism and nomadism are gay, every advancement and great civilization was founded on permanent settlement and mass agriculture. We're still talking about cities like Babylon, Thebes, Jerusalem, Athens, Alexandria, etc. thousands of years later, because of their intellectual, technical and economic advancements. The myth of Rome starts with the wandering Aeneas and the Trojans building a city and making alliances with the neighbors. The Ottomans were barbarians until they conquered Adrianople and Constantinople and adhered to strict primogeniture like Western nations. (You can argue they took it too far with the heir usually murdering his competitors, but it ensured remarkable stability over 400 years.) Arabs and Berbers were nothing until they occupied the Spanish cities and learned Greek philosophy and math. Horsefucker and camelfucker societies have done jack shit, they just raid and rape, usually not leaving any sort of permanent mark on history until agrarian societies decide to write down how annoying they are.

>>17997478
Buttworms typed this post
>>17997613
Get married and obediently watch ika musume with your husband and child eating homemade pastry. HR is a waste of women