Not in all places, like Persia, but in places like Egypt and northern africa Islam seemed to have replaced the local languages with Arabic, while Christianity seems much less linguistically monolith. Why is this?Christianity still had "prestige languages" like latin, but it didnt seem to replace local languages.
>>18001595>Islam seemed to have replaced the local languages with ArabicIslam doesn't replace anything retard. Arabs colonizing the land do.
>>18001595Because Christians value literacy and encourage everyone to translate the word of God into every language so that His word may be understood by all.>>18001611Islam is an Arab supremacist religion.
>>18001595Islam is Arab supremacy. Why else do they spurge out when the Quran is translated to languages outside of Arabic
>>18001616what do the asian (chink-like) muslims speak?
>>18001618Not translating the Quran follows the same logic of maintaining Latin as a liturgical language and is totally rational and justified. Non-translation = consistency, which is important for liturgical matters but not other necessarily matters
>>18001618>>18001632
>>18001595Arabic replaced Coptic in Egypt because Baibars the Mamluk sultan brutally repressed the Copts, long after the Muslim conquest.
>>18001595Vast majority of Muslim places use their local language>while Christianity seems much less linguistically monolith. Why is this?Where exactly?
>>18001595While it took a while to make it clear, and it was a controversial point within the religion for centuries, Christianity and Christian faith/doctrine survive and remain perfectly distinct when translated into any other language. If we encountered ET's tomorrow and their minds were even vaguely similar to our own you could translate Christianity into their language even if it would be a massive and complicated project. Meanwhile Islam requires Arabic, specifically 'Koranic Arabic', to be understood and true to itself. This is not a controversial point, it's one of the regular lines Muslim scholars pull out when they're called on their bullshit. Their religion requires that specific (ebonics/AAVE tier) butchered dialect because without it the entire thing looks exactly as retarded, violent, and deranged as it is.
>>18001877>Christianity and Christian faith/doctrine survive and remain perfectly distinct when translated into any other language.Super dependant on who is doing the proselytizing and/or bible translations anon. A ton of the translations were dogshit, used awful orthography or barely coherent. Then there's stuff like slave bibles.>Their religion requires that specific (ebonics/AAVE tier) butchered dialectWhy are you so mad at it? A fucktonnkf languages use relgious languages that are still retained. What the fuck do you think Ge'ez, Latin, Coptic are exactly?
>>18001916And I'm not sure how preserving scripts and texts of an old version of a language is somehow called "ebonics".
>>18001916>A ton of the translations were dogshit, used awful orthography or barely coherent. Then there's stuff like slave bibles.So you admit that it's only a problem with inaccurate translations, or intentionally malicious translations. Can you see how retarded and pointless that statement was?>Why are you so mad at it?I'm not, stop looking in the mirror. I'm simply pointing out that 'Koranic Arabic' (AKA: The dogshit scrawling of the barely literate, uneducated, con-man Mohammed) is to regular Arabic what the incomprehensible drawling of a crackhead ghetto-dwelling nigger is to English. You seem to get very upset about that though, don't you. How many generations of inbreeding did it take to get to you, Mohammedan?
>>18001922>So you admit that it's only a problem with inaccurate translations, or intentionally malicious translations.Which is still a problem. More so when many concepts don't translate neatly. More so when you have to translate from one language, to English and then Chinese or Tigrinya.>I'm not, stop looking in the mirrorYou clearly are lol. You don't even know what Classical Arabic is at all Tyler.>what the incomprehensible drawling of a crackhead ghetto-dwelling nigger is to EnglishMost EFLs can't even weite worth a shit let alone read honestly.
>>18001931>I'm not angry, you're angry! the postCool story bro
>fucktonnkf>relgious>weite
If you're Muslim, you have to understand Arabic to read the Quran. Yes, you can read a translation, but the actual book only is in Arabic. This is unlike The Bible which is still The Bible even if it isn't in Hebrew and Greek. For a Muslim, your daily prayers are all in Arabic. Plus learning the language of your conquerers is likely beneficial. This is why I am learning Chinese.
>>18001629Arabic when they read the Quran local language for their everyday slice of life crap. Depends on the region some just speak arabic
>>18002003>This is unlike The Bible which is still The Bible even if it isn't in Hebrew and Greek.Still a translation of a translation of a translation.
>>18002064Fair, but to some Muslims the Quran has supernatural qualities but only in Arabic. I think most would agree it is not the "real thing" if you translate it, while Christians generally aren't so insistent that translations of the books of the Bible aren't the real McCoy. Not even considering biased/shitty translations in this comparison.
>>18002073>some Muslims the Quran has supernatural qualities but only in ArabicAnd many people outright worship the NKJ translations.>while Christians generally aren't so insistent that translations of the books of the Bible aren't the real McCoy.What I said isn't a religion thing. It's a thing that applies to ALL translations. Good luck trying g tk translate religious concepts and abstracts from Tigrinya/Amharic to English let alone the reverse. If it was an immense struggle to do it with Greek imagine trying to translate to a language where it's Christian tradition pretty much developed under a totally different lineage and exposure to other sects/faiths. Let alone a trying to do it with a SEA/East Asian o e and their cornucopia of Djarmic and indigenous faith systems.
>>18001635and retarded tradcaths are still seething about this lmaodespite the bible clearly showing that religion should be discussed in the vernacular as the apostles did on pentacost
>>18002003technically the bible is only The Bible if its in the original hebrew aramaic and greekthe difference is christians recognize translations as equal to The Bible (at least when translated well) while muslims consider translations of the quran as inferior by definition
>>18002142>And many people outright worship the NKJ translations.all but the most delusional american protestants recognize that belief to be profoundly stupid though. the mainstream christian belief is that the message and concepts the bible contain are whats important, not the presentation. in islam, the presentation IS the concept so you must learn arabic to properly be muslim. nobody historically was considered a deficient christian because they didn't learn classical greek
>>18001595Protestant reformation.
>>18002171>the mainstream christian belief is that the message and concepts the bible contain are whats importantAnd you need the proper text and more importantly reading comprehension to actually get it. That's why all these "lets teach literacy and the bible at the same time" ends up disastrous in the long term.
>>18002171>nobody historically was considered a deficient christian because they didn't learn classical greekIf you actually wanr to be anywhere in the church hierachy you had to learn the language.
>>18002185and the overwhelming majority of people were not expected to be part of the clergy. the random farmer was not, officially, considered less of a christian because he didn't know classical greek. he was just as saved as the pope
>>18002146Discussed in the vernacular, sure. But when you are performing religious ceremonies and ritualistic practices, you want to be saying the same words so the rituals can be performed as they originally were or as close as possible to it. And not according to the latest and greatest translation and interpretation from some guy a few decades ago
>>18002192>and the overwhelming majority of people were not expected to be part of the clergyNot entirely accurate considering the status of the church in many states back then. On top of that in many ex-colonies being a priest or tying yourself heavily to the church was the closest thing you could go up the totem pole. Like it was either military or church.
>>18001595Muslims are retarded idolators who no longer recognize or worship the one true God. Theyre genocidal morons, inbred and spiritually impure, abominations.
>>18001616>Because Christians value literacy and encourage everyone to translate the word of God into every language so that His word may be understood by all.Noy the case until Luther came about and even then not the case for Catholics until the 1960's.
>>18002569>inbredSo are you saying the only people who migrate, mix and marry out are non-Muslims? >who no longer recognize or worship the one true Godlol drop the larp.
>>18002619>intellectual dishonesty intensifies!>It's not very effective.
>>18001632this. christian translation movements caused church schisms.
>>18001632I should point out that Muslims DO translate the Quran. There are translations in almost all common languages. What they don't do is equate a translated recitation to a recitation in the original language, because to Muslims, the original words are revelation so obviously a translation would not equal that
christians do not believe the languages of the bible (greek, hebrew, aramaic) are sacred or divine, while muslims believe arabic is (even tho it isn't).
>>18003497>muslims believe arabic is sacredmaybe 25 years ago most muslims did, but not now
>>18003497Is it accurate to say that the Arabic language itself is divine in Islam, and not just the Quran? I haven't heard that myself, and those are two very different claims. In any case, I have studied the grammar of classical Arabic and come to the conclusion that it must have been divine, because that level of complexity and comprehensiveness in grammatical rules cannot come about in a language that just naturally develops from people speaking with eachother. I truly believe it has divine origin
>>18003625From what I'd heard from Muslims the idea was that the Koran was only a miracle and only valid scripture when it was the 'original' (that had been rewritten several times from the memories of 'people who definitely heard it from Mohammed himself, pinky promise!') if it was in Koranic Arabic.
>>18003659Saying that the scripture is valid only in the original language in is not the same as saying that the language in general is divine and holy. What the Muslims you've heard from are saying is that their scripture is a divine revelation and there is a holiness in the specific language in which the revelation is revealed. This is a completely logical position and the same applies for Biblical revelation
>>18003674>>18003659And by specific language I mean the specific wording, not the entire language. They want to avoid translations because now they're using words different from the holy revelation itself
>>18001632Catholicism was a Latin supremacist religion. It’s one of the reasons that the reformation played out the way that it did.
>>18003674>>18003678So the Allah that Muslim's believe in is incapable of making his revelation outside of a particular, obsolete, dialect of a single religion?
>>18003715>dialect of a single language
>>18003715Capability is besides the point. They believe God spoke to an Arab in his language, and they want to recite those words precisely as they believe they were spoken by God originally. I see nothing wrong with that. And the same applies for Syriac Christians who pray in the same language of Christ himself. The value of originality in these contexts should be clear
>>18003700Aramaic would be more justified than Latin but the idea is originality and consistency to that originality across peoples and time periods. So I can accept the argument that Latin itself is not the original language, but there is undoubtedly a value in consistency
>>18003723So it's an Arab Supremacist ethnocult. Thanks for making that clear. I'd heard it before, but hadn't believed it - until you made it so clear for me.
>>18003772That's not what I said, but you're welcome.
>>18003782It's the obvious and very clear implication of what you've said, once it's contextualized with wider observations of the Islamic Ethnocult.
>>18003816It isn't really. But if you don't understand the example of why Syriac Christians value being able to recite Christ's words without any layers of translation, then there's nothing left to explain
>>18001595Half the fucking world speaks English and Spanish. Everyone on this board is an utter retard.
>>18003905>Cope intensifies!>it's not very effective
>>18001595>>18001611Arabs didn't force anyone to speak Arabic. They didn't care about language as long as you were Muslim.Arabs massively settling in the MENA and "replacing" native populations is a myth. At most, Arabs were 20-30% in neighboring regions like Egypt or the Levant, and 5-10% in distant lands like the Maghreb. Not nearly enough to replace native populations.The actual reason why Egyptians, Berbers and Levantines ended up speaking Arabic is because they were Afro-Asiatics, whose native languages were already related to Arabic. Arabic is the central language of Islamic theology. Any Muslim strives to read the Quran, hadiths, etc. Afro-Asiatics just had a much easier time learning Arabic since they already spoke related languages.Non-Afro-Asiatics like Turks or Persians spoke extremely different languages so Arabic remained there a purely liturgical language.
>>18001616Holy mother of projectingIslam is literally the only non-racist faith of the world, and the only places Arabic """replaced""" anything were in the semitic middle east and it was a centuries old natural processChristianity is a Jewish supremacist death cult that erradicated by physical and cultural genocide the race, language and cultures of the entirety of the western hemisphere and Austrialia
>>18003772Christians literally worship kikes as demi-Gods chosen to subjugate the entirety of humanity and they believe themselves to be subhuman gentiles that might get crumbles if they serve JewsNo funnier judeochristian projection than its followers accusing Islam of being a racist faith when the Ummah is by far the most racially diverse religious group of the world
>>18001629They are required to learn the bare minimum Arabic in order to read the Quran.>>18002591Catholics created an entire written phonetic version of Nahuatl in order to allow Mexican Amerindians to read the Bible. They CREATED an entirely new written language rather than force them to learn Spanish.>>18004389Settle down Habibi. We're just having a discussion.
>>18004404Lmfao
>>18004429>american evangelicalnot christian. folk religion loosely based on christianity at bestcatholics are more christian than american evangelicals
>>18004404>They CREATED an entirely new written language rather than force them to learn Spanish.Th active languages and people still faced crackdowns in that era and after
>>18004031Why act like such a retard?
>>18001595because the point of islam was to create an arabic empire and they went around and conquered a ton of places to spread. Christianity spread by conquering too, see the reason the new world speaks english and spanish, but it also spread via nonviolent means
>>18004584>they went around and conquered a ton of places to spread.That was long after the initial start of the relgion and the vast majority converted through trade and contact with worshippers traveling.
>>18004389>Islam is literally the only non-racist faith of the worldwhat ten generations of inbreeding does to a mf
>>18002534But the translations now into English are better than the translations into Vulgate Latin
>>18004389this bile needs to stop islam literally teaches you the only way to be a good muslim is to become a bedouin first thing they did after the conquest of the sassanid empire was destroy all there culture and assimilate them
>>18004429None of that follows my post or any chain of discussion in this thread. Keep seething and arguing with people from threads prior in your head, I guess.>>18004574Crackdowns on what? Spain was a Catholic monarchy. Mexico was a secular Republic that forced Amerindians to adopt Spanish.
>>18004816>Spain was a Catholic monarchy. That also explicitly put relgious and cultural pressure on the natives.
>>18004766>islam literally teaches you the only way to be a good muslim is to become a bedouinNot even close. You do know a ton of the books outright critique Arab society and the wider ME social climate at the time?
>>18004379This assimilation theory would only makes sense for Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Northern Algeria and Morocco.The native populations of Iraq (Sumerian & Elamite), Mauretania (Niger-Congo), the Sahara (Niger-Congo), Libya (Tubu), and Sudan (Nubian) spoke non AA languages. And it is quickly refuted by the massive genetic differences distinguishing the native of these places with the new Arab settlers.
>>18004851Like? Mexican natives still exist and speak their own languages.
>>18004429>literal goy slaves for christkillersThey are such an embarrassment. It's surreal.
>>18004863>Mexican natives still exist and speak their own languages.As a small minority lol.
>>18001877>(ebonics/AAVE tier) butchered dialectDo you speak Arabic?
>>18003949This is true, but Arabization in North Africa was achieved with less Arab settlers than European ones who brought their languages to the New World.
>>18001869SEApes LARP as Muslim for free cash from Arabs you retardditor
>>18001595>Not in all places, like Persia, but in places like Egypt and northern africa Islam seemed to have replaced the local languages with Arabic, while Christianity seems much less linguistically monolith. Why is this?>>Christianity still had "prestige languages" like latin, but it didnt seem to replace local languages.Half of English is latin and 1/5 is greek you fucking retard
>>18004379>Arabs didn't force anyone to speak Arabic. why do u arabs lie so much?is it the semitic blood?
All the ottoman subjects speak their native language. The americas were utterly destroyed by iberians
>>18001595Islam spread along with the Arab conquerors and traders so it was either the language of government or trade. By the time Christianity gained dominance in the east, the west had already splintered into relatively strong cultures.>>18001616Only after over 1000 years of Latin supremacy. The Protestants had to survive decades of war and persecution to safeguard their reforms. And for the Catholic Church, only since the 1960s with some resistance that continues to this day.
>>18004399A couple of random Protestants in America whose understanding of the religion is limited to the teaching of 'Big Bobby Joe's House of God and Auto Repair Shop' doesn't really mean anything Anon.
>>18001595The spread of Islam over north Africa was from conquest so more analogous to the spread of Latin over western Europe from the Roman expansions.Persian is analogous to Greek in this respect as a language which survived due to already being a prestige language.
>>18005250Big Bobby Joe is based and thinks you're a reprobate faggot.
>>18005272I'm sure he's a real standup guy, but that doesn't say much about his theology.
