Why do people not want to live in utopia, but choose suffering instead?
>>18001664Pretty sure the millions of peasants who starved in the 20th century under Communist regimes weren't exactly living in a Paradise on Earth.
That's no utopia, but Communists can always cope about revisions or some shit anytime someone actually implements their ideology
>>18001688Wait until you hear how many people starved under feudalism.
>>18001698The difference is nobody's arguing that Feudalism is a utopian system whereas Communists still make that claim about their own system.
>>18001688communism has never been tried
>>18001976>>18001693
>>18001979>everything I don't like is communism
>>18001664Unfortunately Marx didn't account for how stupid the proletariat was. If they were a fraction as smart as he thought they were, then the socialist revolution would have happened centuries ago.
>>18001976It's been tried repeatedly but will never work because it's a utopian system that dramatically underestimates how quickly autocracy corrupts the ruling elite no matter how well intentioned they start out.
>>18001998>It's been tried repeatedlywhere?
>>18001999Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos, etc.
>>18002007not a communism
>>18002008Tired cope
>>18001664I don't know if this is a troll but there would still be difficult parts of living in an end game socialist society, its by no means a "utopia", even if its better than what we currently have. People who call it a utopian philosophy are usually unfamiliar with marxism
>>18001688Millions still die from hunger every year under capitalism
>>180016645th century BCE Athens was utopia, not communism
Can't create a utopia based on a lie
>>18001708>nobody's arguing that Feudalism is a utopian systemYou're on 4chan dot org.
Without suffering, people fear they’ll become meaningless.
>>18001664>utopiaRetroactively refuted by Heraclitus. Marxism is a death cult btw.
>>18002010you don't even know what communism is
>>18002007>Communism has been tried>mentions capitalist countries that claimes to be socialist(not communism) and Russia for some reasonWhat did xhe mean by this?
>>18002891claimed*
>>18001708Its not all utopian but low status men had a greater chance of passing their genes forward under that system than any other. Something to think about.
A degree of National socialism is more reasonably than communism. It’s fair and moderate
>>18001976The fact that it apparently can't be implemented isn't a point in its favour
>>18002909>It’s fair>is based on oppression
>>18001997>Unfortunately Marx didn't account for how stupid the proletariat was.He did. It's why he proposed that things would happen in a future when the Proles had become less retarded.He isn't a 1798 Frenchman who looks at the top 1% social climbers and concludes that some peasant who is a sixth-generation mud eater is, right at this moment and in all regards, an equal to somebody with an university degree who speaks four languages.
>>18002931How to make proles less retarded?
bump very important thread
>>18001664Utopia is a fantasy. The closest thing is blissfully ignorant tribes
>>18002920>>It’s fair>>is based on oppressionIf everyone looks the same in a country there's no one to oppress unless you're willing to discriminate based on "class", you just don't like homogeneous states
>>18001664A good question. You've got to ask yourself, how hard would it really have been to escape? Would I have done it? Anything to do with war or heroism when it come to hypothetical daydreams is usually cope. But IDK. I think most of us here would have the brains to build some sort of device or means of making it over the wall to the West.
>>18003187just make whole planet look the same
>>18001688That wasnt real communism, real communism is China present days.Nah I'm just shitposting. Communism is alive and well in US, but it is for the rich as it should be, I guess.
>>18001664Calvinist ethic and neoliberal economic narratives too strong
>>18002893That a not a good thing unless you are a low--- nevermind
>>18002008China is communist.>But it has le moniez and business!China's economy is a highly centralized command economy and they have a huge welfare state.
>>18003509define communism
>>18003509Addendum: and just because the country isn't textbolk communism doesn't mean the political elite of China isn't communist. Read Xi's Governance of China (or watch a youtube video summarizing it) and you will see just how communist they are (hint: it's alot)
>>18003517>communism is when capitalism
>>18003524Chinese capitalism is highly regulated though. Billionaires in China are constantly under the watch of the CCP.
>>18003532>communism >billionaires
>>18001976Unironically trueAll states that we label today as communist often called themselves socialist instead. Remember that Soviet Union was, in theory, a federal state where the biggest role played Russian Federative Soviet SOCIALIST Republic(RFSSR); likewise there was Ukrainian SOCIALIST Republic, Latvian SR, Uzbek SR etc.Khrushchev was always saying something along the lines of "We currently live in a socialist state, but we're heading towards communism". Communism was the end goal of soviets, and in order to achieve that one have to go through socialism.That being said, it turns out that communism is out of reach for everyone
>>18003536Yes, they profess that they practice socialism with state capitalism, they even have propaganda posters using both of these terms to describe themselves. Not a big deal for them.They are not communist, however. That is the end goal, however, they’ve wisened up to not stare at the stars and fall into pits
>>18003248Yeah that's what they tried to do
>>18001664Because value is inherently subjective and people will never agree that they live in a "utopia" or any other kind of advanced society even if you bash their faces into the facts and data that prove they live good lives. Look at how Americans delusionally believe they're poor even though a nigger working retail in Mississippi has higher purchasing power than the average college gradute in Western Europe. They don't care because they're dissatisfied, and they're dissatisfied due to shfiting and unpredictable subjective opinions of what matters and what doesn't.TL; DR: Marx was retarded and pretended that value is objective while refusing to ever prove it or provide a formula.
>>18003509Communism is not, in fact, when the government does stuff also Xi is literally a critic of welfare, in fact China is notorious for NOT having a "huge welfare state".
>>18001976DING DING DING
>>18001664A utopia is impossible due to entropy.
