Could a philosopher king government actually work?
>>18003834Of course, that king will be AI.
>>18003834No because the success of the government has nothing to do with intellectualism
>>18003834After having met philosophers, no.
>>18003836Saar.
Already tried it
>>18003834People would just get mad because they aren't philosophers and couldnt understand his motivations.So he would have to have total power....what about philosopher subjects though?
China has proved it can, and has. Ancient China was ruled by a meritocratic bureaucracy based on philosophical training. It worked for centuries, though it also produced rigidity and stagnation.
That's what we currently got in America
>>18003834Plato was a blueblood and tried politics IRL for a while, but hated it and went back to being a """philosopher""" instead.
>>18003834Pedro II is a great example of what one could be
>>18003834Eh, kinda. I'd say the closest to the ideal was Rome during the Five Good Emperors, who while mostly not philosophers were still leaders selected entirely based on competence instead of blood. Of coursr the system collapsed when Marcus Aurelius had a biological son and made him emperor.
>>18004777If Marcus Aurelius was supposedly so wise how the fuck he didn't understand that his son was going to be a bad emperor? And why didn't he chose by merit?
>>18004792If Socrates was so wise why did he make everyone hate him so much that they decided to kill him?
>>18004777Are you sure it wasn't the five great kings instead? Seemed to have a better batting average overall.
>>18003834It has come to pass many times. Marcus Aurelius was not only the supreme potentate of the world in his time, he was also Enlightened, like Socrates. Read Marky's book for the blueprint to follow (the enlightenment part, not how to become emperor). Shiva and Vishnu were awakened kings who gave teachings thousands of years ago and basically defined Hinduim/Yoga/proto-Buddhism.In imperial China the powers that be were constantly trying to get Daoist sages to come out of seclusion and work in govt, and usually got an elegant poem in response as a refusal letter, kek.
>>18004944>If Socrates was so wise why did he make everyone hate himSophists were jealous of the "spell" he had over noble Athenian youths, who flocked to Soc for instruction, hurting the Sophists' business model. They sued him and Soc thumbed his nose at the show trial, accepting execution even when given an escape route by his disciples. (you know who ELSE did the same thing?)
>>18005014I agree with you, but if Marcus is the perfect living example of the enlightened despot philosopher king, then his immediate successor is the perfect example of why it's an unstable form of government. There's probably better examples from dynastic Egypt. And like you said about Shiva and Vishnu, all the best examples are from a time so long past they are mythological. This also includes Saturn, Thoth and others.
>>18005292>an unstable form of governmentThe problem with being ruled by enlightened masters/saints/sages is there aren't that many of them at any given time, and they don't want 'power' (which of course, means they are the ones who can be trusted with it). In the majority of cases people who wake up and survive/accept the transformation become religious or spiritual figures and teachers, not politicians.I haven't looked at Gandhi's writings enough to know if he was awakened. But if so, there's your modern standard for enlightened leadership. Like if Christ was given leadership in a major country. Even so, an enlightened master can only point the way. It's up to others to live up to their example.Maybe look at the Dalai Llama tradition. They make a big show of finding who the previous llama reincarnated as, but I can't say whether they actually do their due diligence or not. Finding a legit awakened teacher is more an art than a science, a personal project for individual seekers to adjudicate.
>>18005340>become religious or spiritual figures and teachersLet me add, many express their wisdom and teachings through art. See Dante, Goethe, Milton, Omar Khayyam, Rumi etc.
Aristotle blew this elitist nonsense out in the time it came out. It's not gonna happen, you will never get a benevolent philosopher king. You will always get a cult leader instead. It's gonna be countdown to "I need to fuck your underage daughter because god told me so".
So was Plato a retard for suggesting that?
>>18005451Yes, he both1) Used the cave allegory to argue that man cannot know ultimate reality.2) Argued that he, a man, should be the ultimate arbiter of what is and isn't reality by promoting philosopher kings.It's literal cult leader behaviour.
>>18005014That guy talks about how to get enlightened? I started reading the Greeks just yesterday to try and get enlightenment, but I'll add that book to my backlog too
>>18004944There is no comparison between Socrates and Marcus Aurelius. People always talk about Marcus Aurelius as the most wise roman emperor but then he put his son in the throne. A wise emperor would have picked someone that he had mentor for years to be more sure that he will be a good emperor too.I don't know how old was Commodus when his father died but he must be old enough to take the throne so Marcus Aurelius should have seen signs that his son was not good to be the emperor.
>>18003834The current constitution of Iran was modeled on Plato's and Aristotle's ideas, with the Supreme Leader representing the Islamic version of the philosopher king (the Supreme Leader must be the most qualified scholar)
>>18005447>cult leader>>18005452>It's literal cult leader behaviourCult leader is what you get when a person craves power but hasn't attained to wisdom, so they employ psychological manipulation techniques. They claim divine inspiration but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Christ warned of this. Use your powers of discernment.>>18005771>People always talk about Marcus Aurelius as the most wise roman emperor but then he put his son in the throne.He was trying to head off the civil unrest that a legitimacy crisis would entail. It's why kings tried to have a son and make them the "legitimate" heir so there'd be no civil war among the dukes. Plus, even someone who attains gnosis can't see the future (because there is no future, only a constantly evolving, ever new Now).
>>18006138"You can not know objective reality, only I can so my class must rule society" is insanely manipulative. Surely you see that?
>>18006138Putting an incompetent king in power is better to calm the civil unrest? Commudus was 18 when he became emperor so Marcus Aurelius must have seen what type of men he was. I have heard that he barely raised his son because he always away in some war. Maybe that was the reason for why he didn't know how was his son. But if that is the case then more to my favor because if you don't know anything about your son then is very unwise to pick him for emperor. But now that I think about it, imagine that he picks another dude and then his son starts a civil war because he feels betrayed. The best thing he could have done is not having children.
>>18003834"Philosophers" are nothing but useless windbags.
>>18003834No, Plato explains why in The Statesman aka Politicus:>It is really necessary for men to make themselves laws and to live according to laws, or else to differ not at all from the most savage of beasts. For, in the first place, it is difficult to perceive that a true civic art necessarily cares for the public, not the private, interest, and to perceive also that it benefits both public and private interests alike when the public interest, rather than the private, is well enacted. >And, secondly, even if a man fully grasps the truth of this as a principle of art, should he afterwards get control of the State and become an irresponsible autocrat, he would never prove able to abide by this view and to continue always fostering the public interest in the State as the object of first importance, to which the private interest is but secondary; rather, his mortal nature will always urge him on to grasping and self-interested action, irrationally avoiding pain and pursuing pleasure
>>18005340I just mean unstable in the sense that it requires a perfect successor every time, which as you said there aren't that many who fit the bill. So it falls apart in like 1-5 successions.
>>18003836Who's this Al? Al Bundy?
>>18004792>If Marcus Aurelius was supposedly so wise how the fuck he didn't understand that his son was going to be a bad emperor? And why didn't he chose by merit?He fell for the nurture meme and thought that with a good upbringing his son could be an even better emperor than him. His son, unfortunately for the Romans (and by extent western civilisation in general), was retarded.
>>18007513He was also a cuck.
>>18005014>Shiva and Vishnu were awakened kings who gave teachings thousands of years agolol
>>18007513More than retarded I think he was a narcissist that wanted to become a hero playing to be a gladiator.I don't know much about his rule, I only know that he liked to pretend to be a gladiator. Give me some examples why he was retarded.
>>18003937are those two last things really that bad in the grand scheme of humanity though?
>>18003834> invented 5000 years ago> never tried even oncebigger meme than communism
Who gets to decide who is wise enough to rule?
>>18009346> never tried even onceIt was tried by Pol Pot and Robespierre
>>18009351The system that the philosophers have created to teach the future philosopher kings.
>>18003834If you want to see what happens when intellectuals get into power, just look at any communist country.
>>18009332They were ultimately the downfall of Imperial China.
