elite tombs within Grave Circle A and Grave Circle B, dating to the Middle Helladic Period.These shaft graves at Mycenae have been sequenced. we have only a few haplotypes from Mount Sinai, for which a European rather than an Eastern origin is generally indicated. The good news is that we should have much more to work with from 2027 onwards, if all goes well:https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/101001951If the genetic analysis is performed comprehensively and integrated with archaeological, anthropological, and isotopic data, and considering technical expertise, this project could virtually resolve the debate over Mycenaean origins. It will be difficult to dispute the results, such as claiming that the steppe samples are solely from local people or elites who were "recruited" from outside. If the samples from 2000–1800 BC in northern Greece show the first Achaeans entering the region, it is likely that by the time they arrived in Mycenae around 1700–1650, significant genetic mixing had already occurred. Even so, male (Y) lineages should still have been present>muh nordicistor any such argument will be duly disregarded if the capacity for interpretation is limited to that
>>18007342>2027damn it takes so long
>>18007342We Wuz Nords N' Shiet
>>18007367Thanks for viewing and leaving the thread with more answers>>18007346let's wait and see
>>18007367Worm, did someone mention "Nordic"? Why do these threads attract people like you? Isn't it possible to discuss this without spammers remembering the Nordic elephant in the room?
>>18007370>>18007373Saar We Didn't Look Like Indians/Siberians Before Anatolians Whitened UsSaar It's Steppe that makes us Nordic, not EHG and WHG, that's why the UK, the country with the most R1b, didn't look Nordic-like until the Anglo-Saxon and Norman InvasionSaar The Mycenaeans were Nordic because some of them had blue eyes and lighter hair Good Morning, Saars
>>18007382>Before Anatolians Whitened Ussaar we wuz racists saaar turks are the real white racial supremacists
>>18007342why does it take so long? archaeological difficulties?
>>18007342The dilution was probably rapid, yes. But it would be interesting to see the first "Mycenaeans," they were probably more similar to the Logkas of Thessaly. Or maybe we'll have a surprise? Remember that there are samples in Sarakenes older than the Logkas with steppe, only located in insular Greece
>>18007405>>18007346>MySocialBeIng will produce and integrate comprehensive archaeological, anthropological, genetic and isotopic analyses for all individuals buried together in selected collective graves (chamber, tholos) in order to decipher the criteria for their selection and social belonging out of the dialectic interplay of biological relatedness and social practices (gender, mobility, nutrition, burial, material culture). This has only recently become possible with 1) the development of bioinformatics tools to model biological relationships, 2) single-stranded DNA library production for numerous individuals, 3) innovative pedigree-based Bayesian modelling of 14C dates and 4) novel datasets of bioavailable strontium in GreeceBasically, because it is a multifaceted study, it will have a significant range of various branches working together, hence the delay. See Lazaridis' study on the origin of IEs, it took so long because it is multifaceted.
>>18007429Cool, I can't waitSame with that magical study of the Harrapan samples that the Indians refuse to release for some magical reason
>>18007342How do they go from "Mycenae" to "Mt. Sinai"? Regardless, the "Greeks" came from north of Greece. It's only a matter of degree. Once again, the local Med turds fail to achieve anything on their own. (Tut was R1b also) We were literally the literal Kings of all Antiquity.......literally! Show me any God, King or God-King described as having an endemic "Swarthy Mediterranean" appearance......No, you'll find it's just the opposite. "Fair-haired, ivory-armed, (clear)Grey-eyed..." (Athena, Heran Hellen, Ganymeade, etc.....) All WHITE. ZERO SWART.
>>18007519>Tut was R1b alsoShalom, Miss Joelle Apter.
>>18007736Athena>γλαυκώπις (glauk-opis: grey/blue-eyed, owl-eyed)>ἠϋκόμοιο (eukomoio, eukomos: lovely-haired). Every reference to her hair in the Iliad uses this term (Book 6, Lines 92, 273, 303)Hera>Ox-eyed (βοώπισ πότνια, boopis potnia)>"Hera was smiling with her lips, but above the κυανέησιν (kuanehisin: dark/black/blue-black) brows her forehead was not at peace.">- The Iliad, Book 15, Line 101>"She plaited the καλός (kalos: lovely/virtuous/noble) ambrosial locks that flowed in a stream of φαεινος (phaeinos: benevolent) tresses from her immortal head.">- The Iliad, Book 14, Line 175>"Even as the lord of ήυκόμοιο (eukomoio, eukomos: lovely-haired) Hera lighteneth, what time he maketh ready...">- The Iliad, Book 10, Line 5Helen>λευκώλενος (leukolenos: white-armed), τανύπεπλος (tanypeplos: long-dressed), καλλίκομος (kallikomos: beautiful-haired)>"...goodly Alexander, lord of ἠϋκόμοιο (eukomoio, eukomos: lovely-haired) Helen...">- The Iliad, Book 7, Line 355>Sappho refers to Helen as xanthe (dark-blond/auburn/tawny/fawn/light brunet)>"But Helen raised no lamentation: shame sat on her κυανέοισιν (kuaneoisin: dark/black/blue-black) eyes, and cast its flush over her lovely cheeks.">- Quintus Smyrnaeus, The Fall of Troy, Book 14, Line 40>ξανθαὶ κόμαι (xanthai komai: dark-blond/auburn/tawny/fawn/light brunet)>- Euripides, Iphigenia in Aulis, Line 681So Nordic Saars...
>>18007519Tard
>>18007429where is this place? in Pylos?
>>18007780No. It is outside the fortification walls of Mycenae and is important as it represents one of the main features of the early phase of Mycenaean civilization
>>18007342You will see this very clearly, as there will be a major shift in the DNA toward a profile closer to the steppes.It was also during this period that kurgans began to appear in the Tripoli area.
>>18007794I agree that the first part is plausible, as it presents an early phase of the Mycenaeans, but what does Tripoli have to do with it?
>>18007382>this IVC/Harrapean
>>18007799This is just an example. If the Catacomb was the source of the Aegean steppe, something similar to the Usatovo culture clearly represents the domination of the Tripoli people by steppe migrants. There is a class division when it comes to burials, and it is not the Cuceteni graves that constitute the upper echelon.
>>18007342>>18007346>>18007794>3 more year of logkas conjectures >samples are out>they turn out mycenean-like, same as the other shaft graves nearby already sampled>*crickets*
>>18007784These tholos could be the greek version of the kurgans?
>>18007832Some attest to this, like Anthony, but without many different sources we can only say that perhaps, although they have unique differences.>>18007804ok, but I still think it's a false correlation, although these tombs have men, and seeing the male markers would be useful. maybe they can have steppe as high as logkas
>>18007342The situation in the territory of Shaft Grave A and B will prove to be much more interesting than anyone here predicted, including me. Just wait and see. The result is that the Greeks are derived from Yamnaya from Bulgaria. So, those who claim an "Anatolian origin" will have to admit it sooner or later. Although Logkas alone already disproves this.
>>18007843>yamnaya Outdated The source is actually the Multi-cordoned Ware culture
>>18007867This is not supported by academia in a comprehensive way. Furthermore, it is basically one woman's claim; all these cultures were extremely similar to each other, and I am correct; there are no "Multi-cordoned" samples. Catacomb was used as a proxy in official models and has some consensus in academia.
>>18007853>>18007342Do I interpret "surprises" at the SG site as perhaps haplogroups we wouldn't expect in the region, like r1b or perhaps i2, as found in Yamnaya and Anatolian samples?
>>18007878There's no surprises, as usual
That’s really the crux. Genetic data doesn’t care about modern ethnonationalist projections. If the evidence shows eastern lineages arriving in Greece in the Middle Helladic and then mixing into the population, that’s the story. It doesn’t mean Nordics built Mycenae any more than it means pure natives did, it means the Aegean Bronze Age was shaped by dynamic interaction, migration, and synthesis.
>>18007937dynamic interaction, migration, and synthesis. <---- le Globo <----- le HomoThe Plebs may have been brownoids, but their Gods, Goddesses and other heroes were very often "fair" of hair, eye and skin, so much so that it is reiterated on every other page of the Classics. It was clearly very important to constantly remind the audiences that their betters were light, bright, white, blonde and beautiful, and they weren't. Indeed, there is no other aspect of the Gods that is more emphasized than their superior appearances due to a lack of innate swarthiness. There's nothing to be ashamed of Lighter Peoples have always and only ever ruled over darker, lesser "people". Never the reverse. It's simply the Natural Order.
>>18008826Palace of Nestor samples debunk your cope. Elites were the same as regular Mycenaeans.>There's nothing to be ashamed of Lighter Peoples have always and only ever ruled over darker, lesser "people". Never the reverse. It's simply the Natural Order.Pic related.
Cope has been reduced to "DEY WUZ NORDS AT ONE POINT". Sad. Go extinct already Germutt trannies.
SAAAAAR THE NORDICK ELITE MACEDONIANS SAAAAAR
>>18008860the fact you and Moshe have to go to such lengths to cherry pick these """examples""" only proves my point. Read Homer. The Ancients literally worshipped Whiteness in all its forms. I'm right. You're wrong. I'm White. You're Wong.
>>18008826Hmmmmm so our options are. Colorism based on not spending all day in the fields VS a magical group of snow monkeys migrating down and conquering people with zero record.
But Bronze Age Pervert said they were afraid to test them because they were Nordic, how could this be?
>>18009083Delusional. This is why people laugh at you. You cling onto the few copes in Iliad and Odyssey where SOME heroes are described as having auburn hair (xanthos doesn't translate directly to blonde, as it is also used to describe olive oil and roast meat, which hardly look like yellow Nordic hair) whilst ignoring all the places Greeks are referred to as having dark hair (like Poseidon, Hades) like Zeus who is described at dark browed. You ignore all other writing, descriptions, genetics, evidence, and blame the Jews, whilst it's literally Jewish tricks to have you we wuz as ancients (see Talmudic age pervert the homosexual Jew Costin Almariu who shills this shit). Embarassing.
Greeks were Nordic
>>18010019Greeks were Mediterranean and not Nordic and there's vast evidence of that.
>>18010020“Greeks” were literally blonde conquerors from the hyperborean North they are literally not indigenous to the Mediterranean
>>18009083Also, you're quite literally a faggots, because whiteness was only celebrated as a beauty standard in women, since being soft pale and not needing to work outdoors was a status symbol for women, whilst for men it was the opposite- a virile tan is how heroes and gods are portrayed across all art and frescoes.
>>18010028That's yamnaya steppe pastoralists. There's no proof that they came in conquering because there was already a neolithic warrior culture with population density, boar tusk helmets and figure of eight shields. Genetics proves steppe is evenly distributed across all social strata, which shows as ASSIMILATION of steppe groups top to bottom rather than top elite steppe lords to the rest as commoners. Pylos was heavily Minoans influenced and is the greatest Achaean kingdom aside from Pylos. Switching to speaking Greek is a cultural thing that may have had to do with trade, since Mycenaeans had access to trade with Europe easier and their steppe languages would've been easier to communicate with other BA populations in Europe. Mycenaeans basically copy pasted everything from Minoans, even their script which they based off linear a. Only explicitly proto Indo European god is Zeus, Poseidon (the most attested to deity in linear B) is pre yamnaya in origin- pure Aegean. Aphrodite and Zeus were imports, Poseidon, Hera, Athena, Demeter, Apollo, Artemis, all native Aegean deities. Hell even Mycenae itself was a pre yamnaya neolithic settlement. Even the highest steppe in Mycenaeans still makes them resemble modern southern Europeans.
>>18010044>thats Yamnaya steppe pastoralistsIe Nordic proto Greeks :)
>thread immediately devolves into seething double digit IQ browns and ironic hyperborean agro-trollsThis board is beneath dog shit honestly.
>>18007342It seems more obvious to me that Hellenic and Phrygian had originally evolved in the Balkans as a trade language- one that spread by cross cultural contacts rather than by wars. I’m sure some wars were involved, like with Crete. But it seems more of a peaceful adoption of a language overall. The Phrygians probably entered Serbia and FYROM the same way.
>>18010044>>18010062Yamnaya Steppe pastoralists were mostly brunettes though, having less ANF doesn't mean they were NordicNot to mention that proto-Greek split from the rest of late PIE Paleo-Balkan tribes somewhere in the southern Balkans, after having mixed with locals.
haplotranny hobbyists aren't tired of being repatedly humiliated. What you will find in these graves is the same you find in the shaft graves of mygdalia or the invaders in chania: balcanic italian-like people. These mixed with the minoans to create greek civilization. The thread still babbles about secret elites when the most elite mycenean tomb of all was a minoan with 0 steppe
>>18010180You are probably a jew
>>18010447Is that the Griffin Warrior?
