How do Holocaust Deniers cope with Albert Göring?>Brother of Hermann Göring>Vocal opponent of Nazism>Actively used his position of power to free Jewish prisoners of the Nazi regime>He was even sent in for questioning in the Nuremberg trials but was freed after several people came forward to vouch for himHis very existence completely shits on the face of the idea that the trials were just a mock trial meant to unfairly punish the Nazis in a humiliation ritual and the theory that Nazi officials had their balls torsion'd in order to get false confessions out of them
Why do you care about dumb schizos not believing in the holocaust? There are millions of other conspiracy theories out there. Why is this one so special? If anything you should be arguing in favor of the 6 million number, that's far more interesting of a conspiracy than just outright not believing it happened at all
>>18009017Anon where do you think we are?
>>18008979I have no interest in arguing with you over this. Probably again considering I've been on 4chup for nearly 20 years and online longer. Take my word for it. 6 million were not killed. >>18009017kys
>>18009022>6 million were not killed.You're right, the 6 million were just the Jews, in total 11 million people were killed, which means even if you assert that no Jews were killed whatsoever, that still leaves 4 million dead that your conspiracy theories don't even attempt to account for.
>>18009022Why are you telling me to kms? I agree that 6 million weren't killed and OP should focus on that instead because it isn't as easy of a target as going after people that doesn't believe the holocaust happened
>>18009028>I agree that 6 million weren't killedIt was more than 6 million, Nazi officials during the Nuremberg Trials even gloated that they had the capability of killing even more than this
There's much better evidence for the Holocaust than this.
>>18009035It's more of a debunk on a common Holocaust denialist talking point that the Nuremberg Trials were a sham trial and Nazi Officials were apparently tortured to get confessions out of them, which Albert Görings testimony proves just isn't true
>>18009022>been on 4chong since dial up>never once questioned the vapid bullshit he read hereBased retard.
>>18009037That makes no sense.
>>18008979
>>18009103>They Affirm that there was no plan to murder all Jewshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conferencehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
>>18009103>this massive system to kill undesirables isn’t being used to kill this one group of them, for realsies>we didn’t build that system with a plan to kill all the undesirables, super srs>we built a bunch of gas chambers but it was for delousing, never mind the industrial scale crematoria.>if this general historical consensus on an approximate casualty count isn’t exactly right in all media sources clearly it’s all fake!So. Tell me about your thoughts on Hitler and national socialism, as well as your views on democracy and civil liberties. Since I’m sure you don’t have an ulterior motive.
how does a generic libtard debunk the holocaust
>>18010305Just saying, it’s always some card carrying fascist trying to rehabilitate the Nazis who has zero interest in historical accuracy.
>>18008979My biggest beef is not whether it happened or not but the fact Jews make it entirely about themselves
>>18010316what even do you think nazism was if there couldn't be dissenters
>>18010350Well. They tended to kill the dissenters.
>>18009103modern amerimutts neonazis deny all of that tho it's actually a good thing since it makes them look silly, older deniers/neonazis were far smarter
>>18009022>he is in his late 30s and is still a nazi retardEmbarrassing.
>>18010359I don't know. The more I look into it the more radical racialists were left wing, what they had to say was alarming if not logical but they were never given any real power in the regime. The entire movement was a coup of a german volkist worker's party so are you even familiar enough to say his brother disagreed with the stated policies of the party or actual policies?
>>18010394You understand that he was protected, right? One of the core elements of a fascist state is inequality before the law. His brother was one of the most powerful men in the regime. Of course he could get away with more than a normie. As for the racialist stuff? The lefty part of that was eugenics and breeding a better race. The right wing part of it was the ethnic targeting thing which lead to the killing of all those Jews and gypsies. Though they did actively kill dissidents.
>>18008979Have you seen the short reel/video of his older brother putting his hand in uniform, similar to a freemason, in front of Hitler?
>>18010400"the right wing was the ethnic targeting"you're ridiculous, the "right wing" of the party was a coalition of catholics, conservatives and liberals, normal people. The left wing, like always, were the outcasts. The left are the ones that called for eugenics programs, the left had their socialist party hijacked by the military. This is why claims of nazi hatred towards races they wanted to incorporate into their empire is ridiculous.
>>18010410Wait, are you saying all the antisemitic screeds that Hitler went on were liberal? Come on. That’s just goofy. The liberals were in favor of eugenics. It was at the time seen as a way to help humanity. The racialist/genocide stuff was definitely a rightoid thing though. Albeit it is interesting that you bring up conservatives because the catholic center party was really more of a moderate center right thing, with the social democrats being moderate center left and the communists/anarchists filling the far left role against the Nazis far right.
>>18010422>The genocide stuff was definitely right wingYou're so fucking delusional, Himmler was a lefty, the most famous Nazi judge was a lefty, the guy that wrote up plans for Generalplan Ost was a lefty. They're all fucking lefties. And then lefties point at them and say they're what... Somehow conservatives?
>>18010430You understand that people can change their political views, and that not everyone always endorsed every policy on a direction brain graph, right? Let me ask. Do you consider Hitler to be left or right wing?
>>18010435You're not understanding multiple things about what you're talking about. You had the stated position of the party, the stated positions of the radical leftists in the party, the real positions of the party and the actual power of leftists in the party. Racialists were only kept around to grift. Your limited knowledge of the subject can not be made up through broad generalizations of a political party you don't understand
>>18010448That you’re using the term ‘radical leftists’ for the Nazi party and not the communist party implies a lack of understanding of the political climate at the time. You’re confusing the fact that the Nazis were also futurists with them being leftist. They weren’t. They also started off as much more diverse philosophically than they ended up due to purges killing off those who didn’t fall into line with party doctrine.
>>18010454If it wasn't a radical position they would have actually enacted their policies
>>18010461I don’t know. I’d say mass murder was a pretty radical position even for the time.
>>18010465>The war was a eugenics programSlavs aren't that stupid are they
>>18010469The eugenics program mostly went after the mentally ill and disabled. The concept of racial hygiene was expanded to killing off Jews, Roma, and other such groups later. Killing the Slavs was more about stealing their farmland than anything else. The Germans were still scarred from the famine that WW1 caused. That was a big selling point and dehumanizing the people they were stealing land from was the sugar to make the medicine go down.
>>18010480Oh yeah the extremely small euthanasia program
>>18010484Is 275-300k victims considered ‘small?’ I guess compared to the 11 million Jews, Slavs, Roma, and dissidents they killed later it is.
>>18010494We both know those aren't real numbers
>>18010500Oh. One of those. It’s a lot simpler if you people just start with ‘I’m only interested in the rehabilitation of nazism and don’t really care about history.’
>>18010506Why'd the Catholic church okay the euthanasia program
>>18010318This is the actual approach that reveals that "our" society values Jews infinitely more than whites without denying well-known facts that historical evidence actually does support. But taking this approach would require neo-Nazis to not be retarded so they had to wait decades for the far left to take up the idea in defense of brownpipo
>>18010509Which element of the church? The pope at the time was pretty pro Nazi, all things considered. The local catholic population less so since the pope viewed them as a bulwark against communism (the Soviets had killed a large number of catholic priests in the regions they controlled), and the local Germans were a lot more impacted by Nazi garbage. As for who and what opposed Aktion T4? There were a lot of people. The biggest issue was that it actually used euthanasia where as other eugenics programs in other countries often times just relied on sterilization.
>>18010520All the crazies and tards were taken care of by the church, they had to release the crazies to be euthanized. They explicitly played a role in euthanasia programs. They're also the biggest whistleblowers over it. Not a coincidence
> the idea that the trials were just a mock trial meant to unfairly punish the NazisThat's a misrepresentation of what we think. The Nuremberg trials were a political kangaroo court, with ex post facto legal standards. The prosecution's version of events could not be substantially questioned; defendants had to either admit guilt to whatever the prosecutor accused them of in order to save their skins, or try to pass the blame to someone else so that other guy would get killed instead. But political kangaroo courts can swing the other way, too. They can be used - and have been used throughout history - to make a show of your power and mercy by letting some of your former enemies live and making a show of it. At Nuremberg, the contrast between Streicher and Speer illustrates this distinction. Streicher was a foaming-at-the-mouth propagandist and liar, but he never had the power to imprison or kill anyone. But because he was an unrepentant Nazi they made a show of hanging him. Speer, on the other hand, knowingly and willingly ordered the use of slave labor that killed hundreds of thousands of concentration camp inmates and thousands of executions for spurious accusations of malingering and sabotage. But because Speer made a show of being repentant, and was happy to throw others under the bus, they let him live and made an example of him as a "reformed West German", who regretted his Nazi past but had moved beyond it and embraced Liberal Democracy and Atlanticism.
>>18009032I don't know if you should take confessions by Nazis as gospel.After all, Höss (the commandant of Auschwitz-Birkenau) admitted to the murder of 2,500,000 and the deaths by neglect of 500,000 more - out of a total of 1,300,000 prisoners who were ever under his control. And Franz Ziereis, commandant of Mauthausen, made a deathbed confession to the Americans where he claimed that 1,500,000 people, including many who were sent there from his camp, were gassed at Hartheim, near Linz, Austria.It sounds to me like these were just guys who were under immense pressure to admit to whatever they thought their interrogators wanted to hear. I bet if these interrogations happened 300 years earlier, they'd be admitting to celebrating black masses, drinking blood, flying naked through the air at night and having sex with the Devil himself.
>>18010506>start with ‘I’m only interested in the rehabilitation of nazismIf the supposition that Germans are human like us is subversive then you and the establishment are the real subversives
>>18010534>they had to admit to crimes that obviously would give them death pentality to "save their skins"you are maing zero sense
>>18010579Thing is, very few of them made dramatic confessions, but most of the ones who did were saved from the gallows.
>>18008979>Only frees Jewish prisoners not the Roma, Slavic, Jehovnah's witness or HomosexualsI'm so sick of Shabbo's Goys bro
>>18010550Himmler is recorded admitting to the extermination of the Jewish people, and Hitler gloated about ordering the murder of Polish women and children
>>18010630Not really, Americans didn't really care that much about muh nazism, Speer wasn't spared the death sentence because he was a "good, reformed Nazi." He built up this image of himself after serving his sentence. He was spared because he played a very small role in planning crimes against peace. Officially, he began working for the military in 1942. The Allies wanted to link the war crimes and Holocaust/racist policies of the Third Reich to their responsibility for the war. This way, the Nuremberg trials wouldn't draw attention to things like anti-black racism in the US or the expulsion of Germans by Soviets. And the Nuremberg trials were definitely not a political kangaroo court. The Allies specifically rejected the Soviet proposal to do just that because they wanted to demonstrate the superiority of their legal system. You could argue about some isolated cases, but only a fool would think that the eleven death sentences were unjust
>>18010709>or the expulsion of Germans by Soviets. The Soviets didn't give a fuck about appearing hypocritical, and there was basically nothing the Nazis had done that they were not also guilty of so there was no way that they wouldn't appear hypocritical.
>>18010703>Hitler said mean nasty thing so the fringe left wing racialists in the Nazi party were a tally modern conservatives Are you sure you're not trying to rehabilitate communism?
>>18010725>The Soviets didn't give a fuck about appearing hypocriticalThis may come as a shock to you, but every country cares about its image. >basically nothing the Nazis had done that they were not also guilty Nazis wanted to murder entire nations based on their racist theology so they are one step above Soviets
>>18010727No, just pointing out it's retarded to doubt the Holocaust, considering the evidence
>>18010465You'd be wrong actually, because marching East to genocide the Slavs and take their land to create a greater pan Germanic state was surprisingly a normal position for German nationalists at the time decades before Hitler. Prussia had genocidal policies against Poles and tried to replace them with Germans all the same. Bismarck and Friedrich's private letters say they want to kill the Poles and settle Germans there. The Alldeutscher Verband had the same genocidal position as the Nazis.
>>18010746The evidence of.... Hitler saying a mean thing
>>18010737>This may come as a shock to you, but every country cares about its image. The same Soviet politicians responsible for the invasion of Finland in 1939 forced Finland to prosecute the politicians responsible for the Finnish invasion of the USSR in 1941.>Nazis wanted to murder entire nationsWhat do you think happened to the Cossacks?
>>18010748There is a diffrence between persecuting and rigging the law aganist Poles and outright murdering their entire higher caste and deporting 20 millions of them to Siberia
>>18010751Hitler gloating about ordering the murder of women and children is pretty undeniable proof that Hitler and his character was totally fucking A-ok with murdering innocent women and children.These were WHITE women and children. If he could cheerfully order the murder of them, do you doubt he had no scruples ordering the murder of Jewish women and children, considering that he fucking hated jews.
>>18010766>Hitler gloating about ordering the murder of women and childrenDoesn't seem like that happened
>>18010764>forced Finlandthey didn't force them (since Fins didn't give a fuck about it) >What do you think happened to the Cossacks?deported, not murdered to the lastofc it's not a bad thing but saying it was as evil as Holocaust is a simply nazi apologism
>>18010772>ofc it's not a bad thing*it's a bad thing
>>18010772>they didn't force themRetard.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War-responsibility_trials_in_Finland>deported, not murdered to the lastA great many of them were murdered, but even so, some fates are worth than a quick death and the gulag is one such fate.
>>18010791>A great many of them were murderedyes, and it was a bad thing, just as racism in USA and British/French coloniesstill less evil than what nazis did, sorry
>>18009017>Alright I think it happened, but it wasn't six million broWhy? The evidence for it happening is the same evidence that leads to the conclusion that six million died. Splitting the difference here is really only motivated by a desire to make breaking with the orthodox position more palatable. Why not just go all in?
>>18008979They'll just say it was all part of the jewish plot. You can't reason with idiots.
>>18010748>marching East to genocide the Slavs and take their land to create a greater pan Germanic state was surprisingly a normal position for German nationalists at the time decades before HitlerI guess maybe it was a normal position for radical German nationalists, but that of course would make it a radical position. More mainstream German nationalists would at best only want to annex the Slavic lands that had been part of the HRE, i.e. Bohemia and Slovenia.>Prussia had genocidal policies against Poles and tried to replace them with Germans all the same.They had normal assimilatory policies, as did all other European nation-states.>Bismarck and Friedrich's private letters say they want to kill the PolesSource?
>>18010830>I believe it because it's convenient And when you're shown it's not you screech nazi
>>18010821It was a genocide with the intent to wipe out the Cossacks.
>>18010857and still not on a scale of Holocaust
>>18010864Smaller people, smaller scale.
>>18010867and most of them got deported, not murdered
>>18010868Nope.
They exaggerate the danger he faced.
>>18010881+ It was not a centralized state order to murder the entire nation, to the last man, wamen and child (Cossacks who fought on Bolshevik side existed, they even got the property after deported White Cossacks)
>>18010907The Red Cossacks mutinied and deserted en masse because of the Bolsheviks genocidal policies towards their people.
>>18010922yes (some of them)and
>>18010927So don't use their existence as an argument for why it wasn't that bad.
>>18010933never saw that, genocide of cossacks was a bad thing (wow)and what is your point? that it was just as bad gassing jews in extermination camps, starving them in ghettos and ripping them apart by machine guns? I'm afraid that still won't fly
>>18010940It was atleast bad enough that it would be hypocrisy for the USSR to bitch about other countries commiting mass murder against undesirable minorities.
>>18010947yeah? that's why I told you that Nuremberg trials crimes against humanity and war crimes were specificaly tied to Germany's war of agression
>>18010958As I've already said the Soviets were guilty of war of aggression against Finland, and also against Poland and Iran.The annexation of the Baltic states and of Bessarabia should also count, even if that did not lead to war.
>>18010940so you're saying Jewish life is inherently more valuable than other life?
>>18010966For Soviets the war started in 1941 so they don't really care
>>18010972The leadership was the same so that does not matter, plus they invaded Iran two months after Barb started.
>>18010987and all of that doesn't really disprove Germany fault of starting WW2
>>18010995And? If you're guilty of invading other countries you have no moral right to complain about others doing it.
>>18010999So, like 95% of existing countries shouldn't ever complain about getting invaded because they also invade someone at some point in history?
>>18011004If their current government was responsible for past aggression, yes.
>>18011013So, who should punish Germany for starting WW2 then?
>betray your country and fight for Nazi Germany against it>surrender to the Allies>surprised Pikachu when they send you back to your country to be tried for treason>the overwhelming majority of you are let off without even a slap on the wristYes, truly a horrendous genocide.
>>18011020Basically everyone on the allied side but the Soviets could do it without being too hypocritical.One should not forget that the western allies took an effort to avoid hypocrisy by avoiding crimes they were clearly guilty of, like unrestricted submarine warfare, which they quickly dropped after getting humiliated by Dönitz's defence, and bombing of civilian targets, which they never even brought up.
>>18011037USA, UK and France never invaded anyone? Holocaust and Generalplan Ost were literaly inspired by USA genocide of native americans
>>18011042>If their current government was responsible for past aggression
>>18008979Was this before or after the allies crushed testicles and other violence against the prisoners
>>18011053Pretty sure the current UK, Franch and USA government all hold, occupied and exploited colonies while fighting the resistance movements
>>18011089Colonies that had been in their hands for +50 years
>>18011095Finland was under Russia for 200 years, guess the winter war was justified then, they were trying to get back their rebelled colony
>>18011103100 years, 108 to be exact. However, there's a huge difference between maintaining rule over territory that is already yours and invading a country that used to be part of your territory.The USSR was also officially not a continuation of the Russian Empire so according to themselves they should not have had any claim to the empires former territory.
>>18011123>there's a huge difference between maintaining rule over territory that is already yours and invading a country that used to be part of your territory.It's not, you use force to subjugate other nations in both cases
>>18009024
>>18008979>His very existence completely shits on the face of the idea that the trials were just a mock trial meant to unfairly punish the Nazis in a humiliation ritual and the theory that Nazi officials had their balls torsion'd in order to get false confessions out of themUhhh how? You just said Albert hated Nazis and then chose to play ball with the allies against them. How does that debunk anything about how the Nuremberg Trials were rigged or military officers were tortured?
>>18009024>no polish Holocaust survivor testimony about gas chambers
>>18011347https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold%27s_Reporthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raczy%C5%84ski%27s_Notehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_Protocolshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karski%27s_reports
>>18008979What a retarded cuck.
>>18011952>Literally like 5 guysPretty odd if I do say so myself
>>18012193>Why 1 million Poles weren't able to successfully infiltrate death camps and made a profesional report about them?? 80IQ
>>18011138One is already subjugated though.
>>18012270subjugated by what?
>>18008979The Holocaust didn't happen but it should have happened.
>>18012245>5 million poles were sent to death camps just like the jews>no witnesseswow a lot of jews survived the holocaust
>>18010316>it’s always some card carrying fascist trying to rehabilitate the Nazis who has zero interest in historical accuracy.I have never seen this. I have only seen holocaust revisionism done by people correctly pointing out the holocaust is the penultimate oppression olympics trauma economy narrative which is used as a political bludgeon to attack anyone who is critical of the jews.
>>18008979>how can it be a mock trial if someone who was liked by the jews was let go huhYou answered your own question.>theorytheory? Its in the Nuremberg medical report.It is illegal in Europe to say "nazis were not kicked in the groin during the Nuremberg trials".The people whom jews didnt like, were guilty.The people whom jews did like or didnt have a problem with walked.How is this not obviously a show trial?
>>18012310any witnesses that poles weren't deported?
>>18012333>uhh jews actually liked some nazis and let them gowow, they must be because they really love those auschwitz friday cinema nights while krauts were freezing at stalingard
>>18012362Do you not think it's odd that they hand waved 5 million polish deaths into the Holocaust without a method for murder?
>>18012412what about 50 million dead germans, i think 50 million germans didn't die so no german was ever hurt
>>18012422Total deaths for Germans was 6 million and they were on the front lines with professional killers trying to get them
>>18012430Yes, Allies didn't commit any warcrimes, otherwise more Germans would died
>>18012440That was in a state of total war where civilians were considered collateral damage. The Holocaust is so funny
>>18012441yeah but only 6 million german died so Allies were cleary the good guys and were only targeting soldiers
