>dude everything's an illusion bro
>just ignore your emotions NOOO I WAS SO DROLE AND BORING MY WIFE FUCKED A GLADIATOR KILL 'EM ALL
they were both retarded and set back their respective civilizations by centuries allowing the Germanics to take over the world in their place

>english sentence with a non-english word in the middle

>>18011863
It's a word that means something similar to self realization. It emphasizes being pro social, but also being rational and level minded.

>>18011822
buddhism is an autistic tendency to swing from one extreme to another. If having things is causing you problems then that means GET RID OF EVERYTHING. If having feelings is bothering you then DON'T FEEL ANYTHING AT ALL. etc.

It's not healthy.

>>18011840
>cuckposting outta nowhere

>>18011924
>>18011840
Typical brainlet takes on Buddhism. The point of meditation is not to erradicate feelings, it's about seeing clearly. And that seeing clearly will lead to you not clinging to your feelings anymore and recognize them as what they are transient phenomena that are in essence neither good or bad, but just exist, similiar to the sensation of a light breeze on your skin.

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>>18011822
There is too much navel-gazing in Buddhism, it loses the plot.
What they call the "self" is also different. The contention that since nothing you perceive about yourself is inalienable, therefore you do not exist, is McMindfulness tripe probably resulting from mistranslation.

I respect buddhism but im a maniac

>>18012049
If i had to pick a religious figure itd be st paul because he was a maniac.

>>18011822
Buddhism. But that's because it was a much longer lasting and wide spread idea than stoicism. Rather than because I think the Stoa are uninteresting.
There are forms of Buddhism spread al throughout South and East Asia, all of them wildly different. But Stoicism was a fairly unified and self contained thing.
I think both philosophies share a bit of an affinity between eachother.
>>18011863
English simply doesn't have words for some concepts. So many just find it easier to use the original rather than use ten hyphens and hope the point comes across.

>>18011822
Both are trash

>>18012098
Why?

Buddhism is very prominent where I live and even I think it's ridiculous. I'm starting to doubt the Buddha was even a real person.

Both have been around for a very long time and it feels that "research your stoicism bro" and "learn from buddah brother" are meaningless invitations to "join the cool kids club" where there are so many things out there that you just listen to the guru or book that makes sense for you and make it your whole personality.
I think it's more interesting seeing all the people who declare themselves "interested" in ideologies having no clue what they're about other than facebook advice animals

>>18011958
It's fascinating how little westerners know or care to learn about dhamma vinaya. Even the smart ones. Its a shame because it could help so many of them, god knows christianity isn't doing that

Was Buddha a monist?

>>18012852
>god knows christianity isn't doing that
You think people who can't even go to Church once a week are going to effectively integrate dhamma vinaya into their lives?

>>18013101
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, although I can see how my phrasing could cause confusion. Christianity, even if you go to church once a week, pray to jesus and mary every day, etc etc etc, just doesn't have the healing power of dhamma vinaya. I don't want to disparage christianity, it has some beautiful parts, and in fact I'm pretty sure people have reached high stages of jhana/gnosis and even path fruitions through its teaching, but the overall message is just not as strong, clear, easy to reach peace as through buddha's dhamma, for an average joe. For that average joe, if given a path that actually makes sense, they may find a wellspring of motivation that was understandably lacking for christian practices.

>>18013132
I couldn't disagree more, but I'm not that invested in debating the point at the moment.

>>18011822
Buddhism is a living tradition with teachers and pupils preserving accumulated knowledge, good practice, theory, etc. via trained experts of usually above average intelligence, possibly going back in a chain all the way to the Buddha himself. Stoicism was something that was a fad like 2 millennia ago and some books involving it are still preserved.

Maybe stoicism was superior back when it was seriously practiced, but without a living and thriving tradition of monasticism or something similar it's just not going to be comparable in depth.

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>>18012047
for me its Drikung Kagyu and Drukpa Kagyu from the Milarepa school of Divine Madness

>>18013259
I mean, the destination is the same whichever vehicle you take.

>>18011822
>interesting
I don't give a fuck about that. What I want is what is real, and the Buddhist in the picture knows better.

>>18013297
It's a bit funny how the most boring strain of Buddhism is technically the oldest one while the more interesting ones are borderline mormonism tier.

>>18011958
That's not how Buddhists actually practice the religion.

>>18011924
This sounds like a pop Buddhism take though. I dont claim to know what actual Buddhist texts say but I doubt its whatever this is.

>>18013607
Westerners look for philosophy and meditation and thus are enchanted with Zen, most actual Buddhists chant the name of Amitabha Buddha. Faith and vows are stressed. Went to a Japanese-Canadian Buddhist Temple a long time ago and left feeling very confused, it was like a Christian service but with Jesus replaced with the Amitabha Buddha. A cute girl and her family told me to sit with them next week but I never went back because I was so put off by the resemblance to Christian church services. Sure, the decor was different. But I couldn't wrap my head around it at the time.

Stoicism is interesting to me because it provides another framework for liberation from suffering. Instead of the Buddhist escape from birth and death, it advises you to accept what fate brings to you. Like the Serenity Prayer, you focus on what you can control and try your damndest not to let external factors outside your control to determine your happiness. Memento Mori or contemplating your death is a big thing in both Buddhism and Stoicism.

I'm a big fan of both, just read a book I've had for a while called Zen Pure Land, Pure Land Zen or something similar, and my copies of Seneca's Letters and Marcus Aurelius' Meditations are well worn.

>>18011822
Not sure what either mean by the self but Nietzche believed that we call the self is a multiplicity of desires that range in strength and pull and which ever desire is the strongest is simultaneously the thing that is we identify with the "self". Their is no real self though, we are much more dynamic beings than we think and have the potential to move and change in radical ways; however our integration into language applies a constraint on where our desires move aswell as the notion of a complete self-hood.

Understanding the self as an illusion does serve to emancipate you because it allow you to forget yourself. You no longer have to hold yourself to what you think you are, all the ego ideals you've collected in your head so that you can feel desired and be held down to a standard serve to limit your freedom. Alot of bright minds become charlatans because they feel like they need to project a standard of intelligence to others because of the image they were groomed into believing they must identify with. If they learn to forget themselves instead and just immerse themselves in what they love they open themselves to so much creativity and positive engagement with the world. You dont have to have any loyalty to a self, thats the beauty of forgetting.

>>18013732
The texts don't matter, it's what the people actually do.

>>18011863
It means self understanding. Oikos is “home” or “place in the world” so like psi’s is “finding your place in the world” but it has a spiritual slant to it.

>>18013844
Which people? There are a literal billion buddhists. And they rarely agree on much.
>>18013787
You know, Spengler personally believed the Greeks and the Indians were very inwardly similar to eachother. And that Buddhism was a mirror of stoicism. Of course he then argues that this was a now lost original version of Buddhism, merely pre-occupied with how to live. All the wacky stuff appeared later. From this standpoint Therevada is the pruest form, as it is almost exclusively monastic and Sangham focused.
As for them chanting Amitābha's name over and over again. That's kind of what Pureland Buddhists do. It's not a universal feature of Buddhism, Amitābha doesn't feature at all in Therevada (the Buddhism of Sri Lanka and most of SEA, among other things). While he serves other purposes in Tibetan and other strains of Mahayana.
Though just so you know, lay-buddhism is generally devotional and involves a lot of pleading to gods and Buddhas and such. Only monks do the interesting stuff. And I guess Tantrics if you are a Tibetan.

>>18013880
stop asking stupid questions

>>18013844
Thats not what your post said, and yes the text does matter otherwise your not engaging with Buddhism, your engaging with Buddhists. Nobody gives a fuck what you think of Buddhists though.

>>18013911
Stop saying stupid things. Westoids getting hyper-diluted buddhism or joining cults is not all of Buddhism.

>>18011822
I like how Stoicism confronts reality instead of dissociating based on the text here. Personally doing the "Have Problem, Ignore Problem" has never worked for me, acknowledging and confronting my problem has either led me to solutions or progress. Does "The Self" have different definitions in each ideologies contexts?

>>18011822
>blah blah the secret to life is giving yourself disassociative disorder

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>>18013880
>Spengler personally believed the Greeks and the Indians were very inwardly similar to eachother
They are. Neoplatonism = Advaita Vedanta. Later, Greek Orthodoxy went hard into the mystical aspect of Christianity, which is exactly the route esoteric Buddhism, and Yoga take. Greeks and Indians are the realest niggas to ever introspect.

>>18013880
Spengler believed that all culture/civilization spirit had similarities with other culture/civilizations whether that's a certain event or thing but refashioned according to its archetypal prime symbol; it wasn't exclusive to the parallels between Stoicism and Buddhism. The Greeks viewed the world as body while the Indian worldview was that the world was illusion.
>Spengler personally believed the Greeks and the Indians were very inwardly similar to eachother.
Citation? I think Spengler is partially wrong on his conception of the Greeks having an ahistoric mind just like the Indians. This might be accurate for the Indians, but not the Greco-Roman culture. They may not have been as fastidious as the Faustian man, but past events did color current identities. We have discovered mobile Roman "sun dials" for telling of hours, like an ancient pocket watch. Livy in particular wrote about the Battle of Cannae even though it was near centuries before his time.

>>18014026
I don't think Buddhism is about ignoring problems so much as it's about coming to terms with them, Stoicism is largely the same, both are about finding peace with adversity in some way.

>>18014046
Spengler, ironically, believed that Neo-platonism, Neo-pythegoreanism were a completely different thing. That it had the same inward essence as Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. Though it was constricted by the dead forms of the Apollonian culture.
From the 1st century CE, the Magian skinsuit of the Greek philosophy and religion gradually eroded and replaced the civilized, high-minded, dead stoicism of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca.

>>18014026
>acknowledging and confronting my problem
There needs to be a game plan.

>there is a war
>lets go to war
Thats a nice, but without a plan of action, without analysis of the war, its just going to grave bit early. This middle part you left out is what buddhism and stoictics focus on. Particularly the middle part between problem -> action. This then becomes have problem -> analyze problem -> find solution -> deal with problem.

>>18012302

Because they're not Christianity.

>>18011822
buddhism is dumb and gay

>>18014165
>From the 1st century CE, the Magian skinsuit of the Greek philosophy and religion gradually eroded and replaced the civilized, high-minded, dead stoicism of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca.
Christianity consumed and metabolized/syncretized all the other traditions over hundreds of years. Platonism, Stoicism, Gnosticism, other pagan elements like Queen of Heaven and deity-resurrection all got worked into the system.

The favorite reference theologian of western theologians after Augustine was probably Dionysus the Areopogite, whose works read 100% like Neoplatonism somebody ran through a text editor to replace 'The One' with 'God,' etc.

>>18014079
I know. Different cultures, different prime symbols. But much closer to eachother than to the Faustians or the Chinese.
>Citation?
>Now, is not this conception of [Italicized greek characters] closely akin to the Buddhist ideal of Nirvana, which as a formula is no doubt very "late" but as an essence is thoroughly Indian and traceable even from Vedic times? And does not this kinship bring ideal Classical man and ideal Indian man very close to one another and separate them both from that man whose ethic is manifested in the Shakespearian tragedy of dynamic evolution and catastrophe?
page 347, vol 1
>I think Spengler is partially wrong on his conception of the Greeks having an ahistoric mind just like the Indians.
I disagree, they did not write anything for their first four or five centuries, writing was slow to catch on. And for the lives of people like Solon, we have to rely on accounts written centuries after.
Between Thucydides and the Myceneans there are 800 years. The 'contemporary' Chinese, Egyptians, Westerners. Could all tell you what happened eight centuries ago, who was the protagonist, etc. Thucydides did not know of the Myceneans.
>>18014423
I'm just explaining how things work in his system. Neo-platonism and Christianity where already of one soul, in his view. Ultimately, christianity was a much more natural expression of Magian feeling than the greek syncretisms, which is why it triumphed over them. Though, Greek Christianity was by itself also pseudo-morphic, too.

>>18011930
It's literally the second most famous thing about Marcus Aurelius.

>>18011822
Latter. First one is a mid IQ copout. As long as you're on Earth you will be bound to it and there's an important difference between "just ignore it lol" and "accept it and try not to lose your soul". Anything else is, ironically, an illusion.

>>18014581
It’s not even real

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>>18014198
Lol

>>18011822
Marcus Aurileus' wife was getting plowed by gladiators while he wrote stoicisms in his diary so I think I'll go with the Buddhist.

>>18011822
Buddhist

>>18014774
>fear
>anonymity
>shame
Your just pulling shut our of your ass. Where did Jesus say to feel ashamed, where does he say to be fearful, what the fuck does anonymity even mean here? If anything these are closer to the virtues practiced by roman society who's laws relied on fear of the sword cranking down on your neck.

>>18014794
Marcus Aurelius is not the founder of stoicism you dumfuck, he was just a practitioner. The Dalai Lama is a boyfucker, I think I'll go with the only Greco-Romans who didnt fuck kids.

>>18015068
Marcus Aurelius was a homo boyfucker though

>>18015064
Feel ashamed of your natural urges (labeled as sins)
Be fearful of god

Typical christian values, not sure about the anonymity part though

>>18015076
He condemns homosexuality in The Meditations, give proof or your talking out of your ass

>>18011822
>The self is illusion
That's not what Buddha said.

>>18015102
He kinda did though

>>18015107
Not really. His lesson on the anatman is a component of a larger mental framework for becoming accustomed to anitya, nothing more.

>>18015097
>"Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels". Mark 8:38

The only thing that Jesus says to be ashamed of is being ashamed of being Christian. You dont feel shame for your urges, you simply recognize them as leading you to something bad.

Being God fearing is an even bigger virtue in Greco-Roman society who feared the scorn of the God's and obediently worshipping them, following the laws laid down by their patriarchs. Christianity offers freedom from this existential obedience to your community and instead salvation and meaning trough virtues that you are the arbiter of. Christianity calls on its followers to not be fearful of the other and approach with courage by opening your heart to the anxiety producing other.

>>18015120
Which can be easily interpreted and simplified to mean that the self is an illusion
This is just semantics

>>18015134
Easily misinterpreted by those who engage on a basis of bad faith, certainly.

>>18011822
Both are OCD copes
But at least Buddhism is retarded enough to be based.

>>18015152
Whats based about it?

How would you summarize/compare Taoism with the same brevity?

>>18011924
>If having things is causing you problems then that means GET RID OF EVERYTHING.
>If having feelings is bothering you then DON'T FEEL ANYTHING AT ALL.
The Buddha tried the path of extreme asceticism before attaining Nirvana. Belief systems like Jainism are false because the best you can do (karma-wise) is just die.