Was WW1 the biggest madness in human history even compared to WW2?Think about it, people got all these new horrible toys that were unimaginable 50 years ago like nerve gas, flamethrowers, tanks etc. that were poorly understood and regulated. There weren't any laws against them.And there is no clear good or bad side. It was just a gigantic free for all where people were not dying for great ideals, but for monarchs and because they were young and retarded. It's a perfect nihilistic mess.I mean if a war is so horrible that it directly causes fascism and communism, it must have been truly horrible.
>>18015922>And there is no clear good or bad sideYeah just like in every war.But jusst like in every war, there is however a side that attacked the other side first, and it's Germany.
>>18015933If Germany won WW2, "humanity" would pretty much ceaes to exist. There would only be Germans and their slaves. Pretty sure that's objectively a bad side.
>>18015933WWI? No, WWI was Serbians rebelled against Austrian domination and Russia joined their side because they saw them as Slavic brothers and then a whole bunch of other alliances were tangled up in it.
>>18015922In human history? No way. Maybe in the past 200 years, yes. Maybe third only to the American Civil War or Boxer Rebellion. >It was just a gigantic free for all no it wasnt. It was very calculated. Its just both sides were literally "too smart to win">I mean if a war is so horrible that it directly causes fascism and communism, it must have been truly horrible.Communism was waaaaay before that. Communist, at first, tried their best to stop WW1. To them, the Great War was capitalism's last breath. They anticipated communism will raise from the ashes. And they were somewhat right. We all know what happened in Russia. But in Germany, the entire navy mutinied until the Kaiser stepped down, and the French army threatened to just let the Germans march to Paris to force better pay and conditions But yes, it was pretty horrible, but not crazy all the time. There are some good biographies about it.
>>18015922WW1 was horrific, but I’d argue the Korean War was an even bigger madness. In just 3 years (1950–53) roughly 3 million civilians died. This is proportionally worse than most of WW2 in Europe. The United States dropped more bombs on Korea than in the entire Pacific theater of WW2, and 32,000 tons of napalm were used, turning cities into less than ash. I believe Seoul alone changed hands four or so times, meaning civilians were caught in whiplash massacres, reprisals, and famine. Add to that the fact it nearly spiraled into WW3, US troops were openly fighting Chinese divisions, Stalin was supplying pilots, and nukes were on the table as a viable option used with success a few years prior in Japan. At least in WW1 you can argue it was the collapse of old empires; Korea was pure ideological proxy madness that left the peninsula permanently divided and technically still at war 70 years later.
>>18015943How does Germany invading Belgium and France relate to this?(Yes I know they didn't want to end up fighting on two fronts, but it threw away any chance of Germany looking like good guys immediately)
>>18015922I'm going to summon a lot of ziggers like the batsignal here, but it is very difficult to see what Putin gets out of the Ukraine war at this stage. Sure, if he had actually taken Hostomel airport, stormed in to Kiev, executed Zelensky, and annexed the Donbass in >two weeks, then he looks like a genius, but you can't just do these giant manoeuvres without having a credible off ramp if you balls up. Now we are 3.5 years in and the only realistic solution seems to be a Cyprus scenario, with Russia eventually agreeing not to invade and Ukraine just de facto accepting their losses but never de jure, probably with Luganda and Donbabwe gradually depopulating as the populace head into Russia proper. Again, was this worth it for Putin to nuke all his western relationships, and increasingly put strain on his lifeline with Xi? Man does not live by Lula and Maduro alone.
>>18016114Signed, ChatGPT
>>18016146Yes GPT is very keen on derivatives of the word "nigger", and would definitely call Donetsk and Luhansk Luganda and Donbabwe. It would also be cognisant of the >two more weeks meme, and spell Kiev the Russian way. You've got me, Ivan/Rajesh (delete as appropriate)
>>18015995Interesting, I didn't know it was so bad. Why does the Korean war get so overshadowed by Vietnam in the cultural memory? Was it worse than Vietnam?
>>18016114I think Putin is fine with just killing Ukrainians until there are none left
>>18016201yeah but why? I don't think he has a Nazi-esque conception of racial hygiene, or of lebensraum. As much as I am no fan of Putin, I honestly think he thought the war would be practically bloodless apart from Zelensky, and now for reasons beyond my understand he will not change course. The best guess I have is that he wants to deepen his control over the Russian people, and an omnipresent but somewhat controllable military threat is the best way to do that.
>>18015943No, go check the actual timeline.First Austria declares war on SerbiaThen Germany declares war on Russia, France ans Belgium.And then Britain declares war on Germany but at that point the Central Powers have already started a major war with their repeated war declarations.
>>18015984>and the French army threatened to just let the Germans march to Paris to force better pay and conditionsThis literally never happened thoughThe French mutinies were about refusing to go on offensive, not about abandoning the trenches.
>>18016343It's not hard to understand you fucking retardLosing a war is extremely dangerous to your health. What usually happens to Russian leaders if they lose wars? I bet Putin wants to live another 15-20 years and not die in the next 3 ones.
>>18016343>yeah but why?he work for the west, filling his ''dead slavs'' quota
>>18016385>I instructed my generals to conclude the Special Military Operation, and they have done so. The last vestiges of Nazi control over the entity formally known as Ukraine have now been liquidated. All biolabs have been destroyed, with evidence sent to China and India for independent verification. The ragamuffin group of bandits and looters known as the Azov battalion have been killed or arrested, with all those who remain alive to be tried and executed for sodomy, satanism and Russophobia. The new republic of trans-Crimea, made up of several partial oblasts of the former Ukraine, will be formed effective immediately, under temporary Russian administration until a more permanent solution can be found. I would like to thank my generals for their brave and decisive action in this operation, and if I may be serious for a moment, honour the lives of the four thousand Russian servicemen who laid down their lives, We honour your sacrifice. There you go, job done. The war is 'won', because the casus belli was always made up, and the present embarrassing situation is at least somewhat kerbed. Do you really think there will be riots in Russia in favour of going back to invading Ukraine? Maybe from two hundred deranged telegram bloggers. Everyone else would go on as before, albeit under heavier sanctions.
>>18016409And what if Ukraine just keeps attacking with support from the West until Russia has to leave all of Ukraine proper including Crimea? That doesn't look like a win now does it.
>>18016480I don't believe that's a realistic possibility. Russia, for all its documented incompetence at offensives, is actually quite competent at defending entrenched positions. Without constant failed offensives to protect, they culd redeploy air defences to protect their oil refineries. The Ukrainian population (based on the testimony of the refugee ladies that my aunt is presently housing) are prepared to accept sacrifices while there is a monstrous threat against them but they often tell me that they can't bear a forever-war. It would be politically impossible for Zelensky to actually sign away any land, probably even Crimea, but I think it would be equally hard for him to ignore a sincerely-offered ceasefire, especially if Putin launches a string of nursery bloodbaths to underscore his point (again). Uncle Sam, even with Biden 2.0 in office, would probably also exert huge political pressure to mothball the whole conflict so it can finally focus on Israel and China.Again, don't get me wrong, apart from Ukrainian deaths I'm more than happy for Russia to keep shooting itself in the foot, but as per my original contention I think the continuation of this war will be seen by hindsight as just as big a blunder as starting it.
>>18016196Vietnam dragged on forever. And the type of warfare sucked ass and made the US look like the bad guys when their enemies were all normal everyday villagers picking up AKs because they hated America's presence. Korea was a fast paced slugfest. And it was between two rival nations, China (with Soviet support) and America, fighting a mostly conventional war like everyone wanted. The US didn't destroy communism like it wanted, so there was nothing to talk about afterwards. It wasn't particularly long, it wasn't particularly bad for America, it didn't achieve what people wanted. So it was easiest to just forget about it. No one could turn it into a pillar of a political movement.
>>18016114At this point it's just sunk cost. Ukraine is too dedicated to stop fighting, so he can't just let the pressure off and try and wind this war down. He can't succeed, because obviously Russia is too incompetent and poor to do that. Failure means he's probably a dead man walking. All there is to do is keep trucking along in a war that ideally Russia will lose slower than Ukraine does, so at the end they can assert some kind of favorable treaty and pretend that it was a glorious achievement.
>>18015995how come koreans keep seething over japan and china but completely dropped americans?
>>18016586Norks hate us, South Korea only exists because of American troops and lots of American money being dumped into the economy.
>>18015933Order of blame for WW1:Serbia for the assassinationAustria Hungary for making unreasonable demandsRussia for backing the SerbsGermany for backing Austria HungaryFrance for being FranceFrance
>>18016764>Serbia for the assassinationThat's like blaming Utah for Charlie Kirk's assassinationSerbia isn't responsible for the doing of one nutjob
WW1=french and german bourgeoisies agree to genocide their proles and avoid a revolution
>>18016786The assassination was organized by Serbian Intelligence
>>18015922It was a war to defend Europe from Russian and French aggression
>>18018536One of my favorite conspiracy theories is that the Russian royal family was involved in the Black Hand, and there is actually some pretty solid proof
WW2 = moral horror + industrial scale, but less absurd in its logic. One side was trying to oppress, the other side was on the defense.
>>18016577>>18016196Vietnam had the optics and the drawn-out guerrilla war but in terms of destruction Korea was arguably worse. The United States Air Force admitted they bombed every significant town and city in North Korea into rubble. Pyongyang was 75% destroyed, Hamhung 80%, and by some estimates 20% of the total population died during the war. Add the whiplash of the front lines where Seoul itself was changing hands four times, that which meant civilians got hammered both ways. For Nato, it was a ‘limited war’ and quickly overshadowed by Vietnam, but for Koreans it was Armageddon. By the end, North Korea had a higher percentage of civilian deaths than almost any country in WW2 and that’s why calling it ‘forgotten’ is almost obscene in my opinion.
>>18018536Literally no proof that the Serbian government was involved in the assassination, not even in 2025 is there yet to be found of any proof, even less was there in 1914. The Austrians knew this but they decided to push their ultimatum anyway.
>>18015933What? Germany was one of the last countries to enter the war and got punished like they started it. Thats how bad (((they))) wanted to destroy Germany.
>>18019028>Germany was one of the last countries to enter the warClown please....
>>18016409Russia tried this early in the war “ Istanbul agreement “ and Ukraine threw it out the window and kept attacking because daddy America and Britain told them to
>>18016586South Korea is a cuckold nation that’s basically an American territory
>>18016114If things even go 10% badly for Ukraine in the future, it’ll allow Russia to take everything up to the dnieper Even when Ukraine has done small fuck ups like the Kursk operation, it enabled Russia to make huge gains and push through multiple defensive lines As Ukraine loses even more manpower and morel continues to drop, these fuck ups will only result in larger and larger Russian gains
>>18015933Factually impeccable and good post.
>>18019206Less than that. They're catamites. And we ourselves are a catamite of Israel, so how low-down is Korea? Lower than a snake's ballsack as we say.
>>18018638Another reason to blame the Russians. And it was they who mobilized first. Their mobilization triggered other ones.Kind of ironic considering what happened to them
>>18015984I read this idiot teenager’s redditpost so you don’t have to. Don’t bother reading it, it’s garbage.
>>18015933Russia mobilized before Germany did, with the clear intention of attacking Austria. Serbia mobilized against Austria BEFORE Austria did, and its government clearly and openly stated in writing that it was going to attack Austria in the wake of the assassination. Back then, Serbia’s government was like modern israel- a terrorist state.>>18015933>>18019302Here come the paid shills to shore up the mainstream narrative
>>18016764Austria made no unreasonable demands. Serbia was a terrorist state and should have been jointly occupied by the Great Powers. Austria suggested this, but it was rebuffed by Britain.>>18016786Serbia’s prime minister published an interview in the newspaper, a day after the assassination, promoting, cajoling, and glorifying the assassination and the murderer. He and several other officials furthermore went out and publicly announced that they wanted to genocide various Austrian ethnic groups, and dismantle Austria, that they were planning to invade, and all other sorts of al-Qaeda-esque demagoguery. Serbia’s government had to be put down.>>18018789Lying kike.
>>18019181Hey, jewish tranny. Germany only mobilized and declared war as a reaponse to Russia’s mobilization (an act of war) against Austria.Lurkers, your welcome. I will always be here to dunk on the local kikes and set the record straight for you. AMA if you need the non-jewish version of history.
>>18018638>>18019440It’s definitely possible. Russia’s actions were absolutely the catalyst for the war. The entire dynamic of the war’s outbreak rested squarely on the shoulders of Russian government.
>>18016196Put it this wayKorea and Vietnam both had a similar death toll about 3 million. However Vietnam was 3 million deaths over 20 years. The communist government of Vietnam likes to put the official start date at 1954 btw. In the Korea it was 3 million deaths in only 3 years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Korean_War>Although only rough estimates of civilian fatalities are available, scholars from Guenter Lewy to Bruce Cumings have noted that the percentage of civilian casualties in Korea was higher than in World War II or the Vietnam War, >Cumings states that civilians represent at least half of the war's casualties, while Lewy suggests that the civilian portion of the death toll may have gone as high as 70%, compared to Lewy's estimates of 42% in World War II and 30%–46% in the Vietnam War.[3][4] Yes the fighting was more brutal and civilian massacres were more commonplace than in Vietnam. Vietnam gets a lot of limelight because of media participation but by all accounts, standards and measurements Korea was way worse than Vietnam for both soldiers and civilians.
>>18020290Ok so where is the proof that the Serbian government were involved in the assassination?Even the most recent reevaluation of ww1 still reaffirms that there is no proof.
>>18020412The black hand had ties to the government and the Serbian government knew about and it and even gave the Austrians a very vague warning
Grok has spokenThe Central Powers are guilty and the agressors
>>18020450Having ties to the government does not mean the government controls it Ireland has ties to the IRA but they didn't control it and they never ordered or sanctioned any IRA actions during the troubles on Belfast.And if the Serbians tried to warn Austria then that completely works against your point moron.Again, no historian has found any proof that the Serbian government controlled the black hand or was involved in the assassination. No idea why you're trying to die on this hill.
>>18015941Imagine actually being this stupid.Not just in thinking that was what the Germans wanted, but believing that was remotely possible even if they'd actually won the war. Do you think they'd conjure world occupying armies out of thin air?
>>18020282>b-butno, shut up you demonic kraut or we'll do it again
>>18020514>mobilization is not a declaration of warNations had rigid timetables about the times of mobilization and times it took their troops to get to the borders. If mobilized too late, you were guaranteed to lose territory. Once Russia mobilized, it was onThe only excuse you could make for Russia here is that they needed more time because of their size and shitty infrastructure>blank checkAnd Russia didn't give one to Serbia?>Germany had a pre-war strategyAll nations have pre-war strategies for all of their neighborsAs usual, AI is has the worst takes
WW2 was way way worse. Whole cities were totally destroyed with fire. Atomic bombs were dropped mate. There was no fucking mercy. In WW1 soldiers were killed. In WW2 the killing was indiscriminate.
>>18018638Russia is so based. Literally an iron age empire gruging it out. Takes a bunch of communist Jews to the face and spits them out in Siberia
>>18021417Yet far fewer westerners (except germans) overall died. Civilians felt WWII harder than they felt WWI, but WWII was much easier ok the loss of life overall )in the west). That’s actually the major reason we remember wwii over wwi. The civilian memory is harsher.The east is a different story
>>18020602>>18020412There is damning direct evidence that the Serbian prime minister was actively involved with the black hand. They were hand and glove, the serbian terrorist state had to go.
>>18021272AI has to parrot the mainstream narratives on subjects like this. Otherwise it would be an antisemitic hatebot
>>18019200Naw, Russia wanted a bunch of goofy shit like Ukraine swearing off NATO, disarming, and agreeing to do whatever Russia told it to do in the future with a pinky swear style clause that Russia wouldn’t resume the war later when they’d rearmed again.
