Was it Atlantis?
no
>was (something plato entirely made up literally as another form of sophistry) it real?
>>18016487>sophistryyou post that word a lot! did you just learn it?
>>18016481looks like a mountain the only question is who chopped it off
>>18016481No. What's left of "atlantis" is today called the Azores island chain.
>>18016532It's way more likely to be Santorini/Thera than the Azores
Regular reminder that according to Plato, all the events involving Atlantis happened in the paleolithic era, before Athens existed, yet Athens (leading a union of other Greek states, sound familiar?) utterly defeats the allegedly superior Atlanteans. And no other Athenian historian or author bothered to mention this, because... reasons, and decided to go with the snake guy and Hephaestus and Athenas jizz rag as their founding myths.
>>18016481https://en-gb.topographic-map.com/world/?center=21.06445%2C-11.46982&zoom=12&popup=21.03788%2C-11.43516It is not possible as it is over 350m above sea level. Atlantis as it is described verbatim is a myth, but the myth itself is based on a real life Minoan settlement on Santorini which was destroyed during the Thera eruption.>>18016487>plato entirely made upPlato is citing Solon, it does not seem to be a complete fabrication, rather Plato is citing a highly distorted myth which is based on a real city. Some elements are wrong, like it being an enormous continent in the Atlantic and sunk by the gods, others are correct, like there being hot and cold running water and layers of red, white and black rock, both features of the island today. Solon was touring Egypt and talking with their own philosophers and historians, it seems likely Solon was confusing the invasions of the sea peoples with the Minoans and other myths and wrongly dated it to 1000s of years ago rather than centuries along with other details.
>>18016481there's no evidence of any city there but they have found a lot of arrowheads and stone tools dating even to the time of homo erectus. So somehow these way older stone tools survived but an entire city was wiped out with no trace
>>18016945>no other Athenian authors bother to cite Solon for their polis' massive victory over a superior foeHmm..
>>18016481Yes it was. Circles don't form in nature and those ringed outcrops of rock (as if placed by hand and completely impossible to have formed naturally) are exactly how it was described in Plato.
>>18016481Yes
>>18017352And how is it described by Plato again?
>>18017375My apologies, I should have been clearer.Plato said it looked exactly like it does in the OP.
>>18016910Santorini is the most braindeadest of theories. I'm actually shocked that anyone could believe that one.
>>18017331>their polis' massive victoryWhere do you think Athens was in 9600 BC? And you do know that the entire first half of the introduction of the transmission for the story discusses exactly why the Athenians don't know, don't you?
>>18017407>it's the braindeadest of theories>because it just is.. ok?lol it couldn't be more obvious you're full of shit and seething how your schizo conspiracy theories are disproved by /his/chads
>>18016919>before Athens existedThe Athenians did though. Read Herodotus.
>>18017455Where does Herodotus mention these Athenians defeating Atlantis?
>>18017409>Noone knows>But I doAnd you buy this? Tell us then, where was Athens in 9600BC?
Irl it was just bronze age Crete.
>>18017469But Crete defeated Athens.
>>18017469So, the Minoans?
>>18016945This.
>>18017484>not beyond the pillars of Heracles
A video game from 2002 told me where Atlantis was, and I haven't had a reason to doubt it since.
>>18017487Greeks>Atlantis- beyond the pillars of Heraclesalso Greeks>one can sail through Hister (aka river Danube) from Black Sea to Adriatic Sea
>so thousands of years ago there was this civilization just beyond where our maps end>and it was unbelievably powerful and huge>but we were able to defeat it alone through devotion to our superior ideology>just ask any egyptians how the fuck did anybody take this seriously?
>>18017564>>but we were able to defeat it alone through devotion to our superior ideologyThat's not how Atlantis fell.>>18017454>because it just isExactly right. You cannot just point to random areas on maps and expect everyone to agree with you. >>>18017464You want me to spoon feed you? Read Herodotous.
>>18017487>pillars of HeraclesThis single clue fucked us up more than anything.
People thought Troy and Illiad story was a myth too until an amateur astronomer Heinrich Schliemann went digging and confirmed the story.I am pretty sure Atlantis is a real story too and happened sometime around 10,000 BC and the faget "professional archeologists" will keep denying it until some amateur with his own funds goes and finds it. Then they will spend rest of their lives critiquing that amateur discoverer.Altantis will most likely be in Azores in Mid Atlantic ridge
>>18017654>Heinrich Schliemann went digging and confirmed the storyHoly... Schliemann never presented evidence that the site was named Troy or had anything to do with it. It's a site that people in the high classical period may have thought was Troy based on a series of assumptions. Strabo for example argues against it and he cites other authors that argued against it.
>>18017599Yeah, tell me where Herodotus talks about paleolithic Athenians defeating Atlantis, and instantly BTFO of me.
>>18016481>>18016484Not even part of the Atlas kingdoms of the berbers.The Atl-Az is the "Ocean of the Birds" that the Aztlan, Asgard & Osirian myths of Morocco-Egypt are based on.The Catholic Church is responsible for the cultural genocide against native americans and mediterraneans, because it is the Roman Empire continuing its nepotism and xenophobia while wearing christianity as drag.
>>18017735> Schliemann never presented evidence that the site was named TroyHe literally found the treasure and took pic with his wife wearing that jewelry. He confirmed TroyWhy didnt "professional archeologists" find it if they already knew where it was?
>>18017744There were no professional archaeologists back then dumbo.
>>18016481Plato:>It was a continent in the middle of the Atlantic ocean until it sank under waterBlack people>it was a weird geological formation inafrica hundreds of feet above sea level and hundreds of miles from the oceanLol, the we wuz kangs croud is retarded as always
>>18017654>10,000bcAnd what was Athens like in 10,000bc?
>>18017750>And what was Athens like in 10,000bc?we wont know until some amateur goes and finds it but i trust the ancient scribes. I don't doubt Atlantis existed, i don't doubt Atlantis sank and i also don't doubt remnants of Atlantis went and built the Egyptian civilization.
>>18017752What ancient scribes talk about Atlantis?
>>18017762>What ancient scribes talk about Atlantis?If you dont know the basics of Atlantis, maybe you shouldnt be in this thread
>>18016481do we even have proof that this was a cityLike proof that anyone lived here?
>>18017770>can't say what ancient scribes talk about AtlantisTelling.
>>18017749Its not even in black africa you retarded faggotAfrica doesnt mean blackAnd atlas is heavily linked with the berbers/amazighSo the correlation between north africa and atlandid is rather correct>>18016481Ancient berbers creating this ?
>>18016481Doggerland makes more sense.
>>18016481NoAtlantis was a Bronze Age city state integral in the tin trade from Britain to the Near EastIt was probably located on an island in the former lagoons of the guadalqavir delta, long since covered in sediment. Native Iberian Paleo-European language and culture.
>>18017770>If you dont know the basics of Atlantis, maybe you shouldnt be in this threadThe basics are that Plato is the primary source and everyone after that is quoting Plato. There are no other primary sources.
>>18017744>He literally found the treasure and took pic with his wife wearing that jewelryThat's jewelry from a wealthy city, but it's not Troy. There is zero evidence that it's Troy. Ironically, he found something far more important. Notice that the Agamemnon mask resembles those of the Minoans and those found in steppe graves from across central Asia.
>>18017847That's where the Athenians were. Europhobes will say I'm spitballing but Herodotus literally places ancient Athenians in Germany.
>>18017975Where does he LITTERALLY do that anon?
>>18017973Which Minoan masks are there?
>>18017352>>18017375>>18017379Are these literal fucking bots? Look at the sequence here and tell me I'm not tripping
>>18017847Doggerland makes more sense cuz it's actually sunken.
>>18017988No, its just anon being a catty little bitch instead of answering a valid question.
>>18017977Hold my hand wittle baby. Pelasgians and Athenians are both north of Tyrsenia. The Etruscans are southern Tyrsenians, if you go north of them you get Raetians. Raetians in the Alps are also Tyrsenians, therefore the home of the Pelasgians and the Athenians are north of the Alps. AKA: Germany.
>>18017990All of the ancient coasts are still sunken, but then again, we're assuming that the location would not have been unsunk. You're making too many assumptions without any pointing evidence.
>>18017998>Does NOT litterally place the Athenians in Germany>ΕΜΕΙΣ ΗΤΑΝ ΑΡΕΙΟΙ MALAKA!!!!
>>18018005>"Germans are barbarians"-you>Herodotus says Pelasgians spoke a barbarian language>"Nope. The father of history is stupid and wrong." - also you
>>18018019Where did I say Germans are barbarians anon?
>>18018023So you agree then.
>>18018028No? Are you having another schizo attack?
>>18018045So you don't agree with the evidence or the propositions, but you pretended to inquire about the evidence and pretended to agree with the proposition. You're not here for evidence nor inquiry. Where do you place the Pelasgians, according to Herodotus? Given that you don't think his literal directions were literal, despite not committing to calling him a liar.
>>18018064>The Pelasgians are Germans because...BECAUSE THEY JUST ARE OK!!! BLÜT!!!!
Atlantis was likely an island formed by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, an underwater mountain range that spans almost the entire length of the globe. Even today parts of it remain above water, notably Iceland and the Azores islands, but there's others as well. Sea levels were much lower back during the Glacial Maximum of the ice age, low enough that much of what is now the North Sea was known to have been above sea level (Doggerland), so the same is very likely of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge's highest peaks. What are now tiny flyspeck islands would've been much larger, and what is now totally underwater would've been dry land. We did not even know this ridge existed until the mid 19th century and didn't even know its true extent until the 1950s. Since then we've done a handful of exploratory missions with submarines, but still know virtually nothing about it or the potential for lost human settlements beneath the Atlantic.
>>18018076German language didn't exist, but the people did. It's why when you read Livius he says the Trojans are from northern Russia in the land of the Veneti.
>>18018082So we have two leading theories, MAR and >>18018078Richat. I'm not sure which one to favor.
>>18018097Given Richat was never in the Atlantic ocean or any kind of island, I'm not sure why it's even associated with Atlatnis. Makes more sense that Atlantis was a lower-elevation island that was swallowed by the rising sea level in the last 9000 or so years.
>>18018082>Sea levels were much lower back during the Glacial Maximum of the ice agethat is not even itthe coast lines were completely different and so ground level, some areas were much higher than now, some much lower
>>18018095You're babbling about Russian Trojans now anon. Where does Herodotus LITTERALLY say the Athenians were German?
>>18018106in my private copy of Herodtus signed by adolf h. himself
>>18017744I've seen some linguistic evidence as well, the Hittites had official documents listing Troy as a Vassal State.
>>18018106Someone else thought that Troy was in Turkey because of Schliemann so I'm setting the record straight in a few areas. You're the one that seems inordinately offended at the idea of European culture having inter-European connectivity, for some reason. Probably unchecked Europhobia.
>>18018114Except the Hittites never ruled Anatolia nor Greece. In fact, the Neshites were city-state restricted to the periphery of Mesopotamian political arena. The more likely language for a few decades was considered Luwian, until it was revealed that the entire Luwian language was the brainchild of a single academic who fabricated the whole thing.
>>18018137>Luwian language was the brainchild of a single academic who fabricated the whole thing.the fuck
>>18018116>He's still babbling about TroyWhere did Herodotus LITTERALLY say that Athenians were Germans anon?
>>18018137Gonna need a heck of a citation for that.
Fuck no. Grow up, stop believing in fairy tales.
>>18018137>Except the Hittites never ruled AnatoliaWhat?
>>18018290It's not even a fairy tale, it's blatantly a political allegory, when the ideal version of Athens leads the other Greeks and defeats their island enemy to the west. Say, when was Critias written again?
>>18018103Two reasons: Firstly, obviously the seas are not where they currently were and the Richat occupied for at least sometime a mud-flats created by the Atlas mountains nearby it. Secondly, the nearby mountains are the Atlas mountains.>>18018271They found the design documents in the leading guy's study after he passed. Since then much of what was passed off as Luwian has been either forgotten or claimed to be Hittite instead.
>>18018282Oh buddy. There're mountains of papers on this. The funny thing is that the same journals and magazines that neglect to report on it do so because they spent years putting out the hottest latest Luwian finds lmao
>>18018301That's right, the people we're calling Hittites called themselves Neshites. Hittite is a Biblical and Greek term. It's why when you look up maps of Hittites from the 60s to the 2010s they all put Hittites in eastern Turkey. It's only maps that have come out over the last few years that have expanded its borders to the west.
Richat structure is a shit test to determine if you are retarded. It is not even nor ever was located within the Atlantic and beyond the pillars of heraculese
>>18018343Where does that say a single academic fabricated the whole thing?
>>18018307We know it's not an allegory because Plato explicitly does not say that and instead refers to the transmission of it and conveys at every turn that it is a lost history. In his allegories he is sure to say in no uncertain terms that it's an allegory. Since he does not do that in this case, we know for a fact that it is not. Anyone who makes that argument is out to lie to us. Ignorance isn't an excuse for lying about this.
>>18018346The Hittites were an empire with autonomous vassals extending from the Levant to western Anatolia
>>18018348I can't tell if you're baiting or if you're just that stupid. >>18018351You're like that kid in class that asks what the assignment is after we go over it and it's written on the board.
>>18018356Those tablets get laughed at in actual academic settings. No one outside of Turkey believes they're real.
>>18018361You're like the kid who can't stay on topic and is babbling about how your dad owns 17 Ferraris, when your belt is an extension cord.
>>18018354>It's totally a lost history guysAnd the Blair Witch haunts Birkitsville.
>>18018367Turks shouldn't have much of an attachment to the Hittites since Turks are ethnically steppe peoples more closely related to modern Mongols/Tartars
>>18018370>copying what I said and repeating it back to me slightly differentOh, that one stung huh? Not sure how you think any of this is equivalent to bragging about my "dad's 17 Ferraris" (he's a Mustang man). >>>18018371Please stay on topic or I'm going to have to fail you this semester and I don't want you back in my class.>>>18018372Hey, I'm just telling you that it's a joke. No one thinks "Alekshandu the Neshite" was actually a Hittite imperial stooge or whatever. The evidence from the Greeks and Romans is overwhelming on the topic.
>>18017654No, Schliemann found the historical city of Troy, he didn't confirm the events of the Iliad actually happened. And a war is a very different thing to an entire prehistoric civilisation based on an island that totally disappeared.
>>18018375>the guy dashing from German Athenians to Russian Trojans to fake Luwians>accusing others of not staying on topic
>>18018383>Schliemann found the historical city of TroyWrong.
>>18018387I'm responding to what others said in the thread first. Are you just not reading it? Someone else made the comparison of Atlantis to Troy, and I had to mention that Livius himself said that the Trojans came from the land of the Veneti. I get it- you hate classical era citations, but that doesn't erase the facts. We are here to discuss history and good history takes into account the legendry of those who came before.
>>18018392And Livy (Livius oh fucking spare me) has what connection to Herodotus exactly?
>>18018340
>>18018375>actively derailing the thread>i'm just pretending to be retarded
>>18018397Herodotus was mentioned because he is the one that talks about Athenians and Pelasgians being from north of the Tyrsenians, which means north of the Alps, which means Germany. Herodotus is directly pertinent as to the question of where ancient Athenians would have been from in 9600 BC. It's why when you look up a list of "Pillars of Herakles" you will find a location near the Netherlands marked. Everyone makes fun of it until they get to Herodotus and have to rework their whole calculus. >>18018402That's a good mashup. And look, Jimmy has made excellent points over the years. I think his theory is the leading one. I'm just 1% unsure and that's enough that I cannot commit and have to hear Mid-Atlantic Ridge theorists out.>>18018407I have railed this thread. It's not anyone else's fault that you cannot understand what is being said or cited.
>>18018392you had various venti/venedi/etc tribes everywhereincluding all that famous wends=slavsconsidering high mobility of ancient no state '''tribes''' they all could be(or not) t. guy posting eye of richat pics
>>18018427>you had various venti/venedi/etc tribes everywhereLater on, yes. That's exactly why the British and the French claimed to be Trojans. It's why the French went to Greece screaming "THIS IS FOR TROY" in the fourth crusade.
>>18018423>Pelasgians being from north of the TyrseniansCitation desperately needed.
>>18018427The Veneti in bursts. That's why they came to Italy first, which is what the Aeneid and Livy are saying, and later they pulse out across western Europe. It also may be why the Picts claim to be Sarmatians.
>>18018433Herodotus. You can look up the page number or ctrl+f on your own. That's mentioned like ten times above.
>>18018443>he's babbling about Gauls now
>>18018445You mean Veneti. The reason why Athenians in Germany don't speak Greek is because the Veneti passed through bringing in a wave of late-stage Celto-German with them. That would have been around 600 BC or so probably.
>>18018432honestly I think official chronology is all mixed/made up and geography even in quite recent times could be quite different >>18018437>It also may be why the Picts claim to be Sarmatians.supposedly piasts(polish dynasty) lineage come from picts, at last I seen somebody on /his/ claiming that
>>18018461>geography even in quite recent times could be quite differentThat could be the case, it's tough for me to tell. People are still debating where the Sahara would have been 6,000 years ago, and we still have to stack another few thousand years before that to get to the time of Atlantis.>supposedly piasts(polish dynasty) lineage come from pictsUndoubtedly, I had seen the same study make the rounds. It's rare for you to know that. Makes me wish we could have regular names around here so I can get alerts from the smart ones.
>>18018455And this is proof that Athenians are litterally Germans, how?
>>18018475>:^DSo why was Vienna called the Graecium again?
>>18018483>He's babbling about Vienna now
>>18018487The Graecium, where the Athenian ancestors would have passed through on their migration to present day Athens from their original home during their war with Atlantis.
>>18018471maybe you have this in english?
>>18018499>more babblingWhen was Graz founded anon?
>>18018475Semi mythic history credits Rome with Ionian Heritage. Unless its all larp there may be something there. Also old Greek is very Norse like linguistically.>>18018392Cool source. Been thinking this was the case.
>>180185139500 BC.>>18018507No, can you get it in Latin? Slavs are not ancient by the way. The first Slavic speakers were the Bulgars, who spoke Turkic a century before in the 8th century.
>>18018551>Slavs are not ancient by the way. The first Slavic speakers were the Bulgars, who spoke Turkic a century before in the 8th century.
>>18018517>Also old Greek is very Norse like linguistically.This is noticeable. It's weird how Greek has thematic vs athematic and Germanic has strong vs weak, but it's basically the same concept executed different ways.
This thread is schizolarp all the way down.
>>18018558First Slavic script? Glagolitic developed by medieval Byzantines. Second Slavic script? Cyrillic developed by the same group of medieval Byzantines. Slavic religion? Imported from Byzantine Greeks by Vladimir or just Catholic expeditions. 10th century Rus Chronicle names? All Greek or Norse derived. Protip: Only one group from the 1st millennium AD has a Slavic name. All of the rest are for certain Iranic.And honestly- why would you think that Scythians were anything other than Iranic?
>>18018565>pull arrow from quiver>whoops no ammo>quick, call everyone with receipts schizos and no one will noticeYou know in Scandinavian countries they basically just accept that the entire western steppe was Germanic.
>>18018392Why does that pics caption start out as if it talking about post Trojan war Greece the slide right into settlement founding of Troy without acting like its two different time periods?Source on book?
>>18018574It's Livius explaining the history of the Roman people. He's describing the descent of the Trojans from the land of Veneti, which other Romans held to be their ancestors. The secret name of Rome is Troy by the way.
>>18018571>You know in Scandinavian countries they basically just accept that the entire western steppe was Germanic.So? do I need to believe in any national LARPs or just specific ones?>>18018569that may come from the fact(questionable) that ''elites'' were foreign origins and not that the Slavs materialized from nowhere in Balkans in VIII century and then spread everywhere speaking SlavicI think you give too much credit to Byzantines braiwashing stations(and why they teach them Slavic instead of greek?) its pretty obvious that they created written language and script not the language itself, that is not XX century with all national education systems, radio, TV and internet
>>18018587>So? do I need to believe in any national LARPs or just specific ones?You could read the primary sources themselves and find out. I think you must be a """Slav""" (sic, no such thing) because you're projecting about national LARPs, which is obviously what the Slavs do when they claim ancient history.>'elites'' were foreign originsSo all of them? You're grasping at straws.>not that the Slavs materialized from nowhereIt amazes me how the French and English are able to accept that their languages are less than a millennium old in form, but Slavs will spaz out if anyone denies that their ancestors were Slavic speakers rubbing elbows with the Sumerians. I've seen people on social media crash out over that exact topic. When asked for evidence they just say things like "well you don't seriously think that" or "experts disagree with you" and then when I start citing academics that talk about the Germanic and Iranic history of the steppe region they ask for my degree, which of course I show them. They usually go silent after that.>not the language itselfThat's not obvious at all. Many authors have noted that early Slavic lacks words for basic concepts and completely lacks terminology for maritime activities, which is something that the peoples of the western region were known for as their rivers gave them access to both Black and Varangian seas.
>>18018617i read them, so i am pretty sure you are biased as fuck and plenty of wrong
obligatory 1 of 3
>>18018645Explanations?
>>18018648obligatory 2 of 3
>>18018648You beat me to it you son of a gun
>>18018650obligatory 3 of 3
>>18018348>Richat structure is a shit test to determine if you are retarded. It is not even nor ever was located within the Atlantic and beyond the pillars of heraculese>>18018649
>>18018617I question logistic of this, logic too but that is different matterwhy it happened and how?why iranics, germanics, hyberpboreans, amazonians, whatever they were before suddenly dropped their own language and start speaking Slavic?how these byzantine Jesuits were able to did that and for what purpose?I am all for schizo theories but for me to take them at last half seriously they need to at last sound half plausible
>>18018650
>>18018723>amazoniansFunny enough... Medieval peoples put Amazonians in Poland, west of Moscow certainly, and you know Hector from the Trojan war was married to the Amazonian Andromache. How do we know this story is likely true? Sarmatian women had Amazonian laws. According to Tacitus and Amazonian had to slay a man in order to gain the right to marry. Andromache means "man battler" btw. >suddenly dropped their own language and start speaking SlavicState building. A few months ago we had a thread about ridiculous claims made by European peoples, like Swedes claiming they ruled all of Europe because the Goths had conquered Rome and most of Europe and north Africa, some Balts claimed they were Roman nobles and therefore they had legal rights to all of European clay, and so on. Slavic was picked for the same reason that rulers picked Christianity- it was a way of wiping away the past and multicultural conflicts and starting the slate over with no attachments. The idea that Slavs are older than the medieval is pants on head crazy. There is ZERO evidence for it but you're going to avoid that simple fact and pretend like you're the one not banging on padded walls right now.
>>18018726>Medieval peoples put Amazonians in Polandyeah in Mazovia>state buildingthey then would be using latin or greek then as both their churches and educated elites used them or even germanic as it was trade language considering scandis were fucking everywhere trying to get richunless you mean state rebuilding(pic related)and you still do not explained howsure you had massive language unifications and standardization in modern eraand expansion of Spanish in exploration era but in your case it doesn't make much senseeither (((elites))) started speaking Slavic because vast majority of their population was talking Slavic and that was assimilation or SLAVIC 'elites' subdued non Slavic population and forced them to speak Slavic or impressed them with their superior military might or culture(lel)on the other hand like you question mainstream theories I would also question reliability of the sources, not even considering possibility that they are fake, the authors in question might make shit up, be wrong or be duped I doubt ancient academia have much higher standards than modern one(possibly not lesser tho)now, I do not question possibility of steppes being under germanics(or germanic huns and khazars), or that some germs marched as far as china to get their ass kicked and then run back to Scandinavia and scare goths on their way back with their hapa babieswhat I question is the ability of byzantine Jesuits or local rulers to completely assimilate everyone into Slavs in short period
>>18018762>Lechina empireBetween you and me, I secretly wish that Slavic was the ancestral language of the ancient Iranics. Give me time to digest the rest of your post. There's a lot to consider.
>>18017975The Funnel beaker civilization/culture did reach into the Maghreb at some point, meaning that Homer could have referred to "Athenians" as the maritime traders that eventually merged with the older and culturally maritime Danites of the black sea as opposed to the PIE steppe peoples.
>>18018792>Homerherodotus*
>>18018792>Danites of the black seaYou are referring to Danes, who became the Danaoi in Greece and Denyen in Egypt.
>>18016481The story of Atlantis was told to Plato by his ancestor Critias, who learned it from his grandfather, who heard it from Solon, who heard it from the priest Sonchis of Sais. Sonchis, a priest in the temple of Neith, told Solon the tale of a powerful civilization called Atlantis, which was later recorded by Plato in his dialogues Timaeus and Critias. Sonchis told him Sais and Athens share common origin. The chiefly deity of Sais was Neith who was an Egyptian variant of Athena so the common origin link is interesting. The Persians conquered Egypt after the 26th dynasty and destroyed and looted everything in Sais. Neith was the same as Tanit, the Carthaginian goddess who was venerated all over North Africa. This could mean the Atlantis story, if the Solon tale is true, was imported from the West by the Libyans/North Africans, hue.>Plato notes that the citizens of Sais in Egypt worshipped a goddess known as Neith, whom he identifies with Athena. Neith was the ancient Egyptian goddess of war and hunting, who was also associated with weaving; her worship began during the Egyptian Pre-Dynastic period. In Greek mythology, Athena was reported to have visited mythological sites in North Africa, including Libya's Triton River and the Phlegraean plain>During the Iron Age and Classical antiquity, Libya (from Greek Λιβύη: Libyē, which came from Berber: Libu) referred to the area of North Africa directly west of the Nile river (Modern day Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco), not to be confused with the modern country of Libya, which only represents the eastern part of the territory at the time. Ancient Libya was one of the three parts of the world of the ancients (Libya, Asia, Europa)>>18018392Kys Wignat we wuzzer. Veneti =/= VenediWord Venedi derives from from Proto-Indo-European *wenh1- ((kind).Venedi derives from Gaulish Uenetoi (“the friendly ones, the kinsmen”).
>>18018829>The territory also had part of the Mediterranean Sea named after it called the Libyan Sea or Mare Libycum which was the part of the Mediterranean south of Crete, between Cyrene and Alexandria>Greek and Roman geographers placed the dividing line between Libya and Asia at the Nile because the entire region south of the Mediterranean and west of the Nile was homogeneous linguistically, and the Berber language was used all across North Africa as far as the Atlantic coast as well as racially by the Libyan people (Berbers). The area was divided during Roman times into four main regions: Mauretania, Numidia, Africa Preconsularis and Libya which retained the original name. In contrast, the areas of Sub-Saharan Africa were known as Aethiopia. Much later was the name Africa extended to the whole continent instead of just the Roman Province of Africa>In Greek mythology, Athena was believed to have been of Libyan origins and was therefore nicknamed Athene Tritogeneia ("born of Trito"), from her birth in Lake Tritonis in North Africa (modern-day Algeria and Tunisia) where she is considered native to the land. In this version of the story she is the daughter of Poseidon and Tritonis a Libyan lake nymph. In another version of the story in the same source, they say that she was daughter of Poseidon and Lake Tritonis, and that, being for some reason angry at her father, she gave herself to Zeus, who made her his own daughter, on the other hand some say that she sprang from the forehead of her father Zeus in the same location in North Africa. According to Herodotus, it is the Libyans who taught Greeks how to ride four-horse chariots, this is further shown when Mastanbal the prince of Numidia who is well versed in Greek literature
>>18018801no.I am referring to the river peoples of the black sea, which spread out to the north sea, mediterranean, india and tocharia.The daevas/danavas in sanskrit refer to the heavenly and waterbased conflict, which is the same tribal conflict as between Zeus and Neptune.
>>18018833>A sportsman in his youth, the prince took part in chariot races and the Panathenaic Games which only populations whom the greeks considered equal to them culturally and religiously were allowed to participate. Mastanbal was a sportsman who was passionate about horseback riding. He owned a stud farm of purebred horses. Around 168 BC or 164 BC, he won a gold medal for his people in Numidia at the Athens Hippodrome at the Panathenaic Games in the prestigious horse-drawn chariot racing event.>In Pseudo-Apollodorus, the Greeks proceeded to write of Hyperborea as a place that existed in ancient Libya somewhere within or between the Atlas ranges of North Africa as that was the well-known dwelling place of Atlas as he was enduring punishment by Zeus, he was visited by Herakles as well as Perseus in North Africa>This coincides exactly with North Africans being well known for their worship of their sun god 'Tafukt' or commonly identified by the Greeks as Apollo they were believed to inhabit a sunny, temperate, and divinely-blessed land. The oldest myths portray them as the favorites of Apollo, and some ancient Greek writers regarded them as the mythical founders of Apollo's shrines at Delos and Delphi. Masinissa received a golden crown from the inhabitants of Delos as he had offered them several shiploads of grain to the temple of Apollo in Delos the famous birthplace of the sun god and his twin sister Artemis
>>18018829>>18018833>>18018841>Tanit or Tinnit (Punic: 𐤕𐤍𐤕 Tīnnīt) was a chief deity of Ancient Carthage;. She is the consort of Baal Hammon. As Ammon is a local Libyan deity, so is Tannit, who represents the matriarchal aspect of Numidian society, whom the Egyptians identify as Neith and the Greeks identify as Athena>Avatar birth: Lake Tritonis>Parents: Atlas, Triton>Several of the major Greek goddesses were identified with Tanit by the syncretic interpretatio graeca, which recognized as Greek deities in foreign guise the gods of most of the surrounding non-Hellene cultures as the Greek historians such as Herodotus, Apollodorus, Pausanias mention that Athena has ancient Libyan origins in North Africa to Tanit herself as a goddess of strikingly similar aspects to Athena (Wisdom, War, Weaving..etc). Herodotus one of the most well known Greek historians who traveled throughout the region wrote about her the following:>"It would seem that the robe and aegis of the images of Athena were copied by the Greeks from the Libyan women; for except that Libyan women dress in leather, and that the tassels of their goatskin cloaks are not snakes but thongs of hide, in everything else their equipment is the same. And in fact, the very name betrays that the attire of the statues of Pallas has come from Libya; for Libyan women wear the hairless tasselled “aegea” over their dress, colored with madder, and the Greeks have changed the name of these aegeae into their “aegides.” Furthermore, in my opinion the ceremonial chant. first originated in Libya: for the women of that country chant very tunefully. And it is from the Libyans that the Greeks have learned to drive four-horse chariots." — Herodotus, The histories, IV.189
>>18018841>whom the greeks considered equal to them culturally and religiously were allowed to participatethis is funny because macedonias weren't allowed to participate till one of their princess alexander(not that one) proved his origin from some ''greek'' hero lineage
>>18018829>Veneti derives from Gaulish Uenetoi (“the friendly ones, the kinsmen”)Fix'd.>The name Veneto derives from the Latin "Venetia," which refers to the lands of the ancient Veneti people who inhabited the region before Roman rule>The Veneti (sometimes also referred to as Venetici, Ancient Veneti or Paleoveneti to distinguish them from the modern-day inhabitants of the Veneto region, called Veneti in Italian) were an Indo-European people who inhabited northeastern Italy, in an area corresponding to the modern-day region of Veneto, from the middle of the 2nd millennium BC and developing their own original civilization along the 1st millennium BC>According to Julius Pokorný, the ethnonym Venetī (singular *Venetos) is derived from Proto Indo-European root *wen- 'to strive, to wish for, to love'. As shown by the comparative material, Germanic languages had two terms of different origin: Old High German Winida 'Wende' points to Pre-Germanic *Wenétos, while Lat.-Germ. Venedi (as attested in Tacitus) and Old English Winedas 'Wends' call for Pre-Germanic *Wenetós>Herodotus (c. 484–425 BC) at one point mentions the Veneti of the Adriatic (Histories V.9) and at another refers in passing to the "Eneti in Illyria" (Histories I.196) whose supposed marriage customs, he claims, mirrored those of the Babylonians. This led early scholars to seek to link the Veneti with the Illyrians
>>18018870Ancient Greeks didn't have a nationalist or pan-Hellenic identity before Alexander. They did, however, identity as descendants of Hellen, son of Deucalion (or Zeus) and Pyrrha, and the father of three sons, Dorus, Xuthus, and Aeolus, by whom he is the ancestor of the Greek peoples generally. To be Greek your city of origin had to be mentioned in Homer or have been visited by Heracles. Also if your city was a colony founded by a city meeting those criteria. Macedonians were regarded as hillbillies by most. They spoke a rougher dialect of Greek (spoke a rougher dialect of Greek with harsher accents to a 'Bh' instead of 'Ph' for Philip for example), and had a more pastoral society in regards to the South. Politically they had a monarchy closer to the kings in Homer's story and the barbarian tribes surrounding the Greeks, a form of government not prevalent in the South and even more 'primitive' than the Spartans. This, in part led to Hellenisation efforts to be closer to the Greeks of the South and to modernise Macedon. However, Macedonians were proud of their more rougher way of life and viewed their fellow Greeks from the South as a bunch of wimps.
>>18018829>Veneti =/= Venedi>>18018887They're both of speculative etymologies- by posting the various versions you have already adopted that attitude. Since you have that position then surely you realize that they are not then as separate as you say, since you cannot make the argument definitively tying each word to one origin, then both words could be from any origin.In short, authors generally stick to one pronunciation or the other. You overreacted and underperformed against the file name. Pic related is steppe culture building in the Atlantean motif.
>>18018840>daevas/danavas in sanskritIt's a PIE theme. Celtic scholars point to Danu as a water goddess that fell off. Its origins therefore have to be ancient.
>>18018841Have to stop you right there. Ancient Libya wasn't in Africa- it was near the Amazons. As we have already determined, the Amazonians were from eastern Europe. Myrina the Amazonian defeats Atlanteans. That is the actual lore.
>>18019097>Arkaim >Atlantis They were literally smaller than contemporary Egyptian capitals and Sumerian city-states. The City of Yama (Sarhyamani) is not the Puranic Atlantis, Atalaloka Dvipa is.>The oldest Indian texts tell of several partially submerged islands, calling them Atala, Shveta-Dvipa "the Pure Land," or Saka-Dvipa "the White Island." This territory was located in the "outer" ocean that surrounded the ancient world, that is, in what we now call the Atlantic Ocean and the Greeks the true sea>Among the most comprehensive sources describing this land is the Vishnu Purana (Book II, Chapter I), which clearly states that Atala, the White Island, was inhabited by a population as pale as the rays of the moon (Santi Parva, Section CCCXXXVII), destroyed by a cataclysm caused by the collapse of the Sacred Mountain, Mount Meru. This event also caused the fall of the sky, causing this paradise land to sink into the ocean>The Mahabharata also contains numerous slokas relating to Atala, described as an island "surrounded on all sides by the sea," of great proportions and splendor. located north of the Atlantic Ocean (Santi Parva Section CCCXXXVII), whose capital, Tripura, ruled over numerous other cities, some of which, according to myths, chose to declare war on other nations>Scholars Sergey Teleguin and Arysio Nunes dos Santos, studying the Mahabharata, came to identify the city of Tripura, mentioned as the capital of this island, with the capital of Atlantis>Tripura, literally "the three cities," built by the great Asura architect Mayasura, was supposedly destroyed and sunk into the sea by the god Tripurantaka, an aspect of Shiva, as its inhabitants became greedy and impure in the sight of the deities>It's also interesting to note that both capitals, the one described by Plato and the one in Hindu texts, were circular in shape
>>18019205>This territory was located in the "outer" ocean that surrounded the ancient world, that is, in what we now call the Atlantic Ocean and the Greeks the true seaI think we're on the same page as to where the gorgons were, at least. Still have to put Libya in Europe though along with the original Aegyptos.
>>18019205>Indeed, if we analyze the Surya Siddhanta, an Indian treatise on astronomy (written in the 3rd century BCE), it mentions a "dwipa" island, called "Jambu Dwipa," surrounded by concentric rings of alternating land and water, exactly like Plato's city>Another interesting coincidence between Platonic and Indian texts is that both Poseidon and his Hindu counterpart Varuna were gods of the waters>In the Puranas, Atala can also be found as Saka Dwipa, which according to the Sanskrit Dictionary means "White Island." The Bhavishya Purana (4th century BCE) recounts how Samba built a temple dedicated to Surya, the Sun, and subsequently journeyed to Saka Dwipa, located "beyond the salt water." Samba's goal was to find the Magas, or magicians considered sun-worshippers. Samba is guided on his journey by Surya himself, who leads them, following the sun and riding the god Geruda, finally reaching the Maga>The Santi Parva describes Atala as a land inhabited by men who did not need to sleep or eat. This reference brings to mind the description by the Greek historian Herodotus (450 BC) of the Atlantean tribe, an ethnic group that "did not sleep and did not eat living things" (Historia, Book IV). This certainly suggests a likely vegetarian diet
>>18019115Scythians were hapas.>The genetics of remains from Scythian-identified cultures show broad general patterns, among these are remarkably different histories for men and women>The Western Scythians had haplogroups such as R1a, R1b, E1b, I2a, Q1a and J2a, and the Eastern Scythians had R1a, N and Q1a. In a sample of Siberian Scythians, there was a nearly equal proportion of West and East Eurasian maternal lineages>The maternal lineages among Scythians are diverse, showing a mixture of Eastern and West Eurasian lineages, with increasing East Asian mixture in the Iron Age. In Western Scythians, West Eurasian maternal lineages are 62.5–74% of the total, while East Eurasian maternal lineages are 26–37%. In a sample of Eastern Scythians from Tuva, the maternal lineages are nearly equally divided between Western and East Eurasian sources>The Scythians represent a "multitude of horse-warrior nomad" groups, which emerged from Bronze and Iron Age Central Asians (Western Steppe Herders or "Steppe_MLBA") who mixed with an East Asian-derived population represented by Khövsgöl LBA groups, giving rise to the various "Scythian cultures". Different Scythian groups arose locally, rather than through migration patterns. As a whole, Scythians can be modeled as a mixture between West Eurasian sources, primarily Western Steppe Herders and BMAC-like groups, with additional amounts of mixture from a population represented by the Khövsgöl LBA peoples of East Eurasian origin. Previous suggested mixture sources represented by other modern "East Eurasian proxies", such as Han Chinese or Nganasans, failed and were less reliable than Khövsgöl sources
>>18019227>Scythians can broadly be differentiated into "Western" and "Eastern" sub-groups, with Western Scythians displaying affinity to various modern groups in the Caucasus and Central Asia, while Eastern Scythian affinity is more widespread but nearly exclusively found among modern Turkic-speaking as well as Uralic and Paleosiberian peoples. Overall, modern Tajiks and Yaghnobis were found to display the strongest genetic continuity with the Bronze and Iron Age populations of Central Asia (Indo-Iranians). Scythian Steppe populations display genetic heterogeneity along a west-to-east cline, with Eastern Scythians having higher genetic diversity>Eastern Scythians around the Altai Mountains were of multiple origins and originated from a mixture event in the Bronze Age. The Eastern Scythians genetically formed from mixture between Western Steppe Herder sources (which could be associated with different cultures such as Sintashta, Srubnaya, and Andronovo) and a specific East Eurasian source that was already present during the LBA in the neighboring northern Mongolia region. Eastern Scythians did not belong to a single genetic or cultural cluster, while Western Scythians fall in or close to the European cluster>A later different Eastern influx, starting during the Middle Iron Age to post-Iron Age period, is evident in three outlier samples of the Tasmola culture (Tasmola Birlik) and one of the Pazyryk culture (Pazyryk Berel), which displayed c. 70–83% additional Ancient Northeast Asian ancestry represented by the Neolithic Devil’s Gate Cave specimen, suggesting them to be recent migrants from further east>The same additional eastern ancestry is found among the later groups of Huns (Hun Berel 300CE, Hun elite 350CE), and the Karakaba remains (830CE)
>>18019237>At the same time, western Sarmatian-like and minor additional BMAC-like ancestry spread eastwards, with a Saka-associated sample from southeastern Kazakhstan (Konyr Tobe 300CE) displaying around 85% Sarmatian and 15% BMAC ancestry>Sarmatians are modeled to derive primarily from the preceding Western Steppe Herders of the Pontic–Caspian steppe>Initially, the Western Scythians carried only West Eurasian maternal haplogroups, but the frequency of East Eurasian haplogroups rises to 26% in samples dated to the 2nd century BC. Among the Western Scythians discovered at Rostov-on-Don, in European Russia, East Eurasian maternal haplogroups make up 37.5% of the total. These results possibly suggest the increasing presence of East Eurasian women in Western Scythian populations, although autosomal genetic evidence is needed to confirm this observation>In terms of paternal haplogroups, most Western Scythian remains from the North Pontic region have been observed to carry a specific clade haplogroup R1a, as well as Q1a, R1b, I2a, J2a and E1b>Unterländer and others (2017) found that contemporary descendants of western Scythian groups are found among various groups in the Caucasus and Central Asia>Pilipenko (2018) studied mtDNA from remains of the Tagar culture, which was part of the Scytho-Siberian world. Although found in Khakassia, at the eastern extreme of the Eurasian steppe, remains from the early stage of the Tagar culture were found to be closely related to those of contemporary Scythians on the Pontic-Caspian steppe far to the west, exhibiting both West Eurasian and East Eurasian lineages. However, the fossils from the middle stage of the Tagar culture showed a strong increase in East Eurasian maternal lineages, increasing from 35% to nearly 45% by the middle stage. The mtDNA haplogroups C and D increased from 8.7 to 37.8%
>>18019247>Mary, et al. (2019) studied the genetics of remains from the Aldy-Bel culture in and around Tuva in central Asia, adjacent to western Mongolia; the Aldy-Bel culture is considered one of the Scytho-Siberian cultures. The authors also analyzed the maternal haplogroups of 26 Siberian Scythian remains from Arzhan. 50% of the remains carried an East Eurasian haplogroup, while 50% carried a West Eurasian haplogroup. In contrast to the paternal lineages, the maternal lineages were extremely diverse. The most common lineages were variants of haplogroup C4>Mary, et al. (2019) also determined the paternal haplogroups of 16 Siberian Scythian males of the Aldy-Bel culture. 56.2% of the haplogroups belonged to varieties of haplogroup R1a. On the other hand, 31.2% belonged to haplogroup Q1b, which was found in Bronze Age samples from the Altai Mountains>Additionally, one specimen (6.25%) carried haplogroup N-M231, which is associated with Neolithic remains from Northern China>The Scythian groups of the Pontic Steppe and South Siberia had significantly different paternal genetics, which suggests that the Pontic and South Siberian Scythians had completely different paternal origins, with almost no paternal gene flow between them>Since the Middle Iron Age onwards, the Eastern Scythians received additional Northern East Asian geneflow, paralleling the emergence of Huns, which shared this newly arrived component. There was also an increase in Sarmatian and BMAC-like ancestries>Unterländer, et al. (2017) found that eastern Scythians share closest genetic similarities with modern-day speakers of Siberian Turkic languages, such as Telengits, Tubalars, and Tofalars, which supports a "multi-regional origin" of the eastern Iron Age Scythians>Eastern Scythians share partial ancestry with contemporary Turkic, Mongolian, and Siberian groups in eastern Eurasia, while evidence of genetic affinity with Scythians is strongest among modern speakers of the Kipchak languages
>>18019227>Scythians were hapas.Let me stop you right there again. Tell you the truth, your low fidelity spam does not merit much conversation because it universally lacks depth.
>>18019115i doubt it, were old lore is probably more true than most academy give it credit for it also probably much worse in accuracy, mistranslations, wrong identification of people and regions and even fakeryalways doubt everything
