200 years after the death of Christ, a Mesoamerican farmer dies from infection. He was not particularly righteous, nor particularly malicious. What happens to his soul?
>>18017022magic lava
jesus died on the cross for his sins
>>18017022Goes to hell as a consequence of original sin.
>>18017022>What happens to his soul?That is up to God to decide, not you or me.
>>18017022Straight to hell. He is still there, and he will be there in seven quintillion years, suffering all the same.
>>18017022Hell.
>>18017022>What happens to his soul?Hell.If I remember correctly, Mesoamericans believed only people who were *sacrificed, died in war (or child birth), and people who drowned (or die from some kind of disease that mimicked drowning) got to go to anything resembling heaven. Everyone else would be sent to an obstacle-course-style hell where they'd have to pass through a river, a pointy mountain, and three other 'courses' that I forget (Wikipedia says there's nine, but I heard five) to their ultimate destination of reincarnation. Affluent Mesoamericans would be buried with a dog, slaves, and equipment to aid them on this journey. *Getting sacrificed to the gods, cosmologically, meant you were either eaten by the gods or became a servant of a god and lived in their estate. Sometimes both. Either way your afterlife resembled heaven as serving, or being eaten, were both described as a euphoric experience.
>>18017022I urge you to stop this nonsenseYou are made in God's image. If something sounds unrighteous to you, then it is wicked to himThe Bible tells ypu outright -"the Law is written in our hearts" and "everyone placed in a specific place and time for good reason"Those who do not know the Truth must seek itThose who knows the Truth must live by itBelieving in Christ is not a pass to sin. It is a responsibility. Your duty is to live as Christ showed
>>18017112It sounds unrighteous to me that gays get punished for sticking their peepees inside each other's asshole. >inb4 fagI'm superstraight.
>>18017120There are way way waaay worse people in heaven. It is a choice.A choice to repent and confess that you are wrong
>>18017022Do the disciples of Jesus go to heaven, as they did not believe in the Holy Trinity since it was invented some 300 years later?
>>18017124Why would you say you are wrong when your heart where the law is supposed to be written says you are not wrong?
>>18017092>If I remember correctly, Mesoamericans believedYou're talking about like a 100 or so different cultures throughout the span of about 2 millennia. It is extremely unlikely they'd all have a perfectly unified belief system like that. Even if you zoom in on AD200 like in the OP.Since you've got that war or childbirth thing going on, I assume it's either colonial era Aztecs or the Viking beliefs mixing with the Mesoamerican stuff in your head.>>18017112>The Bible tells ypu outright -"the Law is written in our hearts"Huston, we've got a problem.
>>18017143It doesn'tYou were born with guilt precisely because you know that you are violating God's design>hurr psychoA corruption of the designIt is the duty of society to help them by keeping them at a good standard, in a language that they understand
>>18017022>What happens to his soul?he never received a soul to lose because he existed outside the kingdom of heaven and the spirit was not in him or his people
>>18017212Wrong. The spanish had a whole debate about it and the outcome was that they did have souls.
HellBut probably hell is more like a continuation of this existence. Toil and acquire, not magic lava demon rape. Most beliefs instantly put you in hell upon death (which is mostly like this life, or some derivative of it depending on how you lived). Heaven is reserved only for the exceptional and heaven is extremely conditional, turbo sigma grindset tier for eternity.Yeah, all of us and mostly going to hell upon death, but hell is most likely not magic lava. Just more of the same tedium of existence (since existence never really ends) that goes on forever.Become exceptional now, as your Father in heaven is, and you reach heaven. That's why even in Christianity it's reserved for the most autistic good doers of all, those exceptional fuckers who forgive and wish you good health even while you're torturing him to death
>>18017350Living the perfect life according to the bible be like>Marry a fat wife>Have retarded kids>Pay 10% of your income to retarded brown people halfway across the world>Believe old jewish myths about a circumsised jewAnd BOOM you've made heavenWhat an amazing faith
>>18017022Forever stuck in empty void as described in Divine Comedy
>>18017350stop posting this shitskin rape victim
>>18017112This.
>>18017143Do you see all those gays marching in pride parades trying to screech and proclaim how okay their choices are? Deep down they know it’s wrong—that’s why they feel just a need to justify it and overcompensate. No one does that for shit everyone know is normal and good.
>>18017356Yes, and also love your enemies and wish them good health and wellness even in the moment of torment and death.Got a problem with that? You aren't anything special for wanting a Hot wife and wealth accumulated. You'll have them on this earth and in hell also. Buy you aren't anything special, like I said, and heaven ain't for you.>>18017358Dilate
>>18017052>seven quintillion yearswhat happens after seven quintillion years?
if there are non-whites in heaven, i would rather live in hell
Heaven and hell do not existEvery one of you disgusting Christians have less than 5 years before your heads are removed and locked in chambers, where your brains will be kept alive and the insular cortices and amygdala are perpetually stimulated so you feel nothing but pain and sadness forever.This righteousness is written on my heart and I know for a fact that it's morally correct and morally obligated, so by your own standards it's God guiding me and the rest of us to do it to you - and yes, we really are building these machines and will do this to you. You have no counter argument against this, and no, saying "nuh uh" is not an argument.
>>18017433He realizes he hasn't served even 0.0000001% of his eternal sentence and screams until his eyeballs burst.
>>18017507See >>18017463You can keep believing in fairytales, but do you really think your nonsense is going to help you when the chips are down?
>>18017022Limbo or HeavenGod knows best, maybe the Mesoamerican becomes a White Christian in the afterlife.
>>18017507>and screams until his eyeballs burst.that's cool. it implies something new happens, at leastI wonder what it would be likeI suffer from chronic headaches. splitting headaches. pain so bad I can't think. painkillers don't work. I only fall asleep when I'm exhausted. sometimes it goes on for weeks straight, but it's rare. the interesting thing, in all that pain, is that there's a point where the pain sort of becomes the baseline and I can almost start functioning again. almostgive it a quintillion years, though, what would happen?it's fun to imagine people living their lives in the lava lakesbuilding structuresmaking artstarting civilizationsforever is a very long time
What religious framework are we talking about? Personally I think his "soul" if you want to call it that, perhaps "mind" is a better word, goes back and merges with the deity, suffering over. This makes sense to me, but I am also swayed by the idea of reincarnation in the Buddhist sense, where one is brought back into the "Saha world" of birth and death by karma, despite your true self being empty and/or not having a true existense.But Christian perspectives, of which I do not agree, vary from hell to purgatory to "sleep of the dead" to being resurrected if he lived virtuously. The Mormon religion (a seperate religion from Christianity) thinks that Jesus actually came to the Americas(!) so this farmer would have had a chance to accept the Mormon Jesus (a seperate Jesus from the Christian Jesus) and there would have been temples to do the rituals to become a god of his own planet, provided the white Jewish Nephites were still around and not just the evil swarthy also Jewish Lamanites.>>18017573"burn in hell" is really a metaphor designed to scare people who don't have the maturity to understand that the Christian hell is actually being in God's prescence, same with heaven. To a believer, this is awesome, to an atheist who hates God, this feels like hell.
>>18017022>What happens to his soul?Nothing, since Jesus hasn't returned to judge him or us.Can't believe the amount of retards that think hell exists right now
>>18017514I think it should be obvious that I'm trolling. I don't actually believe Yahweh is boiling Mayans alive forever because they didn't hear about his son getting crucified on the opposite side of the planet.
>>18017786That's good, you'll be spared by the super intelligent AI.Have a good one anon
>>18017350Why does he always look like he's actively shitting his pants
>>18017048>christard tries to deflect by suddenly not having all the answers.what does your religion teach about the situation?in before gawd decides. then you have NO teaching about what to do to avoid the magic lava.
>>18017151Belief in a "neutral" afterlife full of strange trials is indeed a very common trait of Mesoamerican religions, what that guy just said is a bit of a mixture of Maya and Aztec beliefs. Though I'm not qualified to say if it's "universal" or notBelief that sacrifice victims, warriors slain in battle, women who died in childbirth, and people who died from drowning or other water-related causes went to one of many much nicer "heaven" equivalents is also authentically Mesoamerican, specifically it's a belief of the postclassic Nahua, a group that does include the Aztecs. Again, not really qualified to say how many other Mesoamericans shared similar beliefs if any
>>18017212>he never received a soul to lose because he existed outside the kingdom of heaven and the spirit was not in him or his peopleSadly the meaning of this will be lost on them because they do not know the difference between the spirit and the soul, or how a person comes to have either one or both.
>>18017440>Before he was burned, a priest asked Hatuey if he would accept Jesus and go to heaven. Las Casas recalled the reaction of the chief:>[Hatuey], thinking a little, asked the religious man if Spaniards went to heaven. The religious man answered yes... The chief then said without further thought that he did not want to go there but to hell so as not to be where they were and where he would not see such cruel people.
>>18017022Nothing, the dead remain dead until they are brought back for the last judgment. What happens on judgment day exactly is anybodys guess but the Catholic church teaches this in CCC 847:>Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation.
>>18017842>what to do to avoid the magic lavaFrom a purely biblical standpoint, Jesus Christ himself canonized one saint, the penitent thief, later called Dismas. He's the only figure in all of Christianity who was canonized as a saint while still alive.According to Luke 23, two thieves were crucified alongside Jesus for their crimes. The thief crucified to Jesus' left, blasphemed him saying:>If you're really Christ, save yourself and us.The thief to Jesus' right, rebuked the other thief, saying:>Do you not fear God? Seeing as he's condemned to the cross along with us? We're here being justly punished, but this man hasn't done any wrong. Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.Jesus replied:>Amen, I say to you, for today you will be with me in Paradise.There are plenty of other answers in the gospels, but I find this particular example interesting, since it's the only confirmed saint canonized by Jesus himself. Dismas' example shows to me that honesty and humbleness goes rewarded, whereas begging to flee problems you created for yourself go punished. Salvation is a multifaceted thing and I'm no theologian, so I can't really speak for every viewpoint from every Christian denomination.
>>18017022Goes to hell but maybe doesnt get extremely negative punishment. Maybe just separation from god which is not ideal but not excruciating compared to the punishments baptized people who end up in hell get or extremely sinful people.
Why are midwestern rednecks so spiteful to people they've never met? You have to really harbor deep hatred to wish anyone would get tortured forever because they don't have the same imaginary world as you.
>>18018322that was neat but doesn't address the question whatsoever.
>>18017022Within Jewish and Christian traditions (I myself am of the latter), there is room for interpretation but generally speaking the individual is judged by A. his ability to know Christ and/or B. his heart's position toward God i.e. morality. Children (not just babies) may go to Heaven upon death because they do not possess the faculties for knowing Christ; in the Jewish tradition, iirc, Bar Mitzvahs are held around age 12 or 13 because individuals are deemed able to observe the faith properly. At that time it is incumbent upon them to be faithful and mindful of God. Prior to that age, they are understood to be at least somewhat incapable of "truly" appreciating their Lord. It is admittedly a gray area as most age-oriented customs are, but it's what is taught and generally understood to my knowledge. Similar understandings exist in the Christian/Catholic tradition. For part B, this would be the "answer" to your question. It's true that the good news of Christ's sacrifice may not have spread throughout the world at the time of death for many non-believers. In those instances, my understanding (from the faith) is that they are judged by their moral disposition (as all morality derives from God).
>>18018666Satanic trips because you equated Judaism with Christianity. Reminder that they are diametrically opposed to Jesus Christ. In fact they aren't even supposed to use the term Jesus Christ. Their word to refer to him in rabbinical texts is an acronym meaning "may his name and memory be obliterated".>>18017112>>18017350Actual intelligent posts (besides posting an idiot's picture but I'm guessing that was intended to be illustrative)
>>18019023Christianity is the opposite of intelligence. It is the surrender of critical thinking.
>>18019049For people who don't wanna think, then yes, they can use Christianity as a pretense to avoid thinking. That's true of any religion, though.>Fun fact: The Alexandrian Christian philosopher Origen was held in highest regard for his philosophical depth by both Christians and pagans. In fact, according to Porphyry, Plotinus himself - the father of Neoplatonism - considered Origen to be his superior. (Life of Plotinus chapter 14)
>>18017022At death he undergoes the particular judgment: his soul is judged immediately and sent to heaven (possibly via purgatory) or hell. >Key theological factors:Particular judgment at death. Every soul is judged immediately by Christ (not waiting until the final judgment).State of the soul (mortal sin vs. no mortal sin). A person who dies in unrepented mortal sin is understood to be damned; one who dies in God’s friendship goes to heaven (if still needing purification, to purgatory first).Culpability / invincible ignorance. If he never heard the Gospel and through no fault of his own was ignorant of Christian truth, his moral blame is reduced or absent. The Church recognizes invincible ignorance as a factor that can excuse sinful choices.Baptism of desire / implicit desire. The Church teaches that those who, without formal baptism, sincerely seek God and try to follow their conscience can be saved by Christ (so-called implicit “baptism of desire”). (See Lumen Gentium 16 / Catechism paragraphs on baptism and invincible ignorance.)God’s mercy and justice. Ultimately the Church entrusts each soul’s fate to God’s perfect knowledge and mercy; we cannot infallibly pronounce a particular person’s destiny.>Applying this to the farmer in your scenarioBecause he lived centuries before the Gospel reached his region (so never baptized or explicitly evangelized), Catholic teaching would not automatically consign him to hell. If he lived according to his conscience and did not willfully reject God, the Church holds there is a real possibility he could be saved — perhaps by an implicit desire for God and, if necessary, purification (purgatory) before entering heaven. If, instead, he knowingly and freely rejected God and died impenitent in mortal sin, the judgment would be damnation.In short: judged immediately; destination depends on his moral culpability and relationship to God — God alone knows the outcome.
>>18017022get reincarnated as /his/ poster
>>18019110so hell
>>18019093>At death he undergoes the particular judgment: his soul is judged immediately and sent to heaventotally false lmao
>>18018495german descent, Lutherans
>>18017022By all accounts, he should go to hell, though some would qualify he would not go to a version of hell as terrible as Judas would go to. But imo, the Americas are antithetical to the Christian religion as normally thought of by Christians. Odd to believe the Great King of all the universe was too busy transverberating sandniggers and giving monks holy titty milk for the first one and a half millennia to do anything about the three to four continents completely unaware of him or his salvation, sacrifice, or whatever the fuck.>>18017112>You are made in God's image. If something sounds unrighteous to you, then it is wicked to himDeuteronomy 22: 28-29 seems to disagree.Your world is sad, narrow, and intensely parrochial.Two or three hundred years ago the law 'written inside of your heart' would be conspicuously different. You probably wouldn't have much a problem with Slavery, at least.
>>180170228000 years before the death of Christ, a Mesoamerican farmer dies from infection. He was not particularly righteous, nor particularly malicious. What happens to his soul?
>>18019573christians actually have an easier way out with people who died before jesus did, they say righteous unbelievers go to a limbo state that jesus went and freed them from after he died on the cross
>>18019573>>18019584nevermind you said he wasn't particularly righteous...I guess a christian can weigh in
>>18019585>>18018294
>people go to hellI don't get it why it's so hard for people to accept this. Is anyone indebted to you to give you eternal paradise, or anything at all, after death? Life is shit and after you might go to hell, which might as well be total oblivion, like the state before birth. Is it all that super hard to accept?
>>18019594It is hard to reconcile with some things the alleged architect of this system reportedly claims about itself, at least. It's more to show the flaws of this way of viewing the world than just whining about it.
>>18019616I believe that God is omniscient and already knows who would accept Christ and who wouldn't. I also believe that if anyone sought the truth, they would find it regardless of time period they live in. The problem that many people face is just that they never even try to find the truth their whole lives. That would explain people like the one in OP."For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"- Romans 1:18-20So the guy that lived in some obscure village still had the choice to attempt to search for the truth, but if he never even tried, then that was the end of the story. If he had tried, hypothetically, the truth would have gotten to him somehow, so he is "without excuse" according to Romans 1.
>>18017041>>18017055>>18017350>Christians literally steal the pagan understanding of heaven>They combine it with resurrection, seeing no contradiction>They think everyone goes to hell, that pagans knew nothing about the afterlife, etc.1. The Jews had no understanding of the afterlife at all.2. Pagans, especially the Egyptians, knew that the Judgment of Osiris awaited them after death.3. Christian heaven is physical, like hell. Jesus was resurrected in his body; he did not show his astral body. The heavenly Jerusalem is described in the form of a cube, as a physical, existing abode of God, which must arrive on Earth.A farmer, if there is something, went where he was assigned. But most likely, there is nothing at all; death is oblivion, everything else is cope.
>>18018283https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaldensiansLittle children were torn from the arms of their mothers, clasped by their tiny feet, and their heads dashed against the rocks; or were held between two soldiers and their quivering limbs torn up by main force. Their mangled bodies were then thrown on the highways or fields, to be devoured by beasts. The sick and the aged were burned alive in their dwellings. Some had their hands and arms and legs lopped off, and fire applied to the severed parts to staunch the bleeding and prolong their suffering. Some were flayed alive, some were roasted alive, some disemboweled; or tied to trees in their own orchards, and their hearts cut out. Some were horribly mutilated, and of others the brains were boiled and eaten by these cannibals. Some were fastened down into the furrows of their own fields, and ploughed into the soil as men plough manure into it. Others were buried alive. Fathers were marched to death with the heads of their sons suspended round their necks. Parents were compelled to look on while their children were first outraged [raped], then massacred, before being themselves permitted to dieThe high moral principles of Christians.>You know about Moloch! Ooooh, the pagans were so terrible! Not like us, who burned and killed heretics, apostates, pagans, witches, and sorcerers.>Christian morality is the highest morality!
>>18019914>I believe that God is omniscient and already knows who would accept Christ and who wouldn't.Did he will these souls into existence, knowing full well they were irrevocably destined for damnation?>I also believe that if anyone sought the truth, they would find it regardless of time period they live in.How would they know?
>>18019984And don't say something about natural theology or whatever. Because that's not going to lead you to the Nicene Creed and everyone knows it.
>>18017350>hmm, how do I reconcile morality and afterlives in Christianity?>I know, I’ll just turn it into asatru, except I’ll swap out Odin for the god of Israel!stealing every aspect of your faith from pagans while shitting on pagans is truly one of the most time-honored Christian traditions there is
>>18017022Hell, but not punished. Literally purgatory.
>>18019978All you're doing is showing how Catholicism historically (and today) is not biblical.>>18019984>Did he will these souls into existence, knowing full well they were irrevocably destined for damnation?No, because they indeed had/have a chance to find the truth. The only problem is that with very little exception they choose not to.>How would they know?Depends. According to the Bible, the Biblical God has infinite different means at His disposal.
>>18017048So why bother trying to convert anyone to Christianity? Why be any religion over any other?
>>18020114>No, because they indeed had/have a chance to find the truth. But before creating them God already knew they wouldn't search for the truth, right? If he already knows every decision that will ever be taken 'choice' is a superfluous idea. >According to the Bible, the Biblical God has infinite different means at His disposal.Then why does he, omnibenvolent as he says, not just universally impart this knowledge instead of waiting for someone to 'find the truth' (however that may work) and seek him out like a slighted prima donna —a Prima Dio?
>>18019594The system claims itself to be just and good. Sending people to Hell because they were totally ignorant about the truth and had no way of learning it certainly seems unjust. Especially given we're talking about the supreme creator of everything
>>18020359>But before creating them God already knew they wouldn't search for the truth, right? If he already knows every decision that will ever be taken 'choice' is a superfluous idea.God knows what every free creature would do in any given situation. That doesn't obviate their accountability for their own decisions, however. If there is a person who would – based on their own will and voluntary choice – choose to reject Christ no matter what, then they only have themselves to blame for whatever outcome precipitated from that. They are not being forced to make decisions by God, even if God has foreknowledge of what every decision is going to be.>Then why does he, omnibenvolent as he says, not just universally impart this knowledgeSee Psalm 19."The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."(Psalm 19:1-3)
>>18020384>Sending people to Hell because they were totally ignorant about the truth and had no way of learning it certainly seems unjust.I think they did have a way of learning, or one could have been provided for them, they just never chose to try.
>>18020359At the end of the day, God readily imparting knowledge of and about himself does not undermine free-will, as the choice of whether to accept or reject him is still on the person. >>18020389Accountability is well and good but irrelevant to what I am asking you. You are almost pretending these souls came out of nothing independent of God. Did God knowingly create souls that were damned? You say no. But you also say that God knows the choices that will be take, I.E, God is already aware they WILL be damned before they are created, but choses to create them anyway. You say this is not the case because they have a chance to not do so, however God already knows they will not take it.To illustrate how deranged this is, imagine the following: A scientist creates a monster who —wholly responsible for his own actions— he with absolute certainty knows will do nothing but kill and pillage, in theory it can choose to not do these things as he has the faculties for it, but it won't. In the end will have to be excruciatingly tortured and then executed as punishment. Knowing all of this with absolute certainty, the scientist releases his monster into the country.Would you say this scientist is an benevolent as he can possibly be?As for your Psalm. I see you believe he does, but couldn't he dispel the mists of ignorance himself? Being all powerful, and loving us oh so very much?
>>18020441>Did God knowingly create souls that were damned? You say no.Right, because they could have chosen differently.>But you also say that God knows the choices that will be take, I.E, God is already aware they WILL be damned before they are created, but choses to create them anyway. You say this is not the case because they have a chance to not do so, however God already knows they will not take it.That doesn't change the fact they could have, theoretically, chosen differently. There was nothing actually stopping or preventing them, except their own will. If they had chosen differently, they would have gotten a completely different outcome which I believe would have been provided to them.>Would you say this scientist is an benevolent as he can possibly be?I don't think the analogy properly holds up because God isn't comparable to a scientist. He is the purpose behind everything, and willed everything into existence at the beginning. He has a divine purpose and intention for it all. A human, even one who professes to be a scientist, is not even remotely like that. So the analogy fails simply because we aren't talking about an omniscient Creator who continually sustains all life, for whose glory all things are created.>couldn't he dispel the mists of ignorance himself?Not if it would violate your free will. If you choose to reject and forget God, despite witnessing the universe He created, that unfortunate choice will be respected nonetheless. It means you'll be cut off from the source of life itself, including the source of your own life, though.Fundamentally this makes sense, since no one will be forced to worship God.
>>18019527>You probably wouldn't have much a problem with Slavery, at least.YesOur hearts was corrupted but the Law is still thereYes, I wouldn't have a problem with slavery if i were born during that timeBut that is not what I would be judged onThe judgment would befall once the Truth comes out - that human trafficking is wrongIf I insisted that Slavery should remain, then I have much to explain in God's courtThe blind at least have an excuseBut once your eyes are opened, you can no longer hide
Explicit faith is required, but God’s judgment takes his context into account.
>claiming to know what happens after you die with certainty Imagine being this retarded and gay
>>18017092>Everyone else would be sent to an obstacle-course-style hell where they'd have to pass through a river, a pointy mountain, and three other 'courses' that I forgetSounds pretty kino actually.
>>18017463Y'all can't even remove kikes from power, you think you can unite and do something, anything?
>>18019978Those things are only bad because Christianity said so. You judge evil doings using Christian morality. Or did you learn that morality from pagan Rome? Egypt? They never cared for the vanquished and conquered, empathy for the victim is Christian.Every westerner sees stuff through Christian lenses, such its its weight on culture, unknowingly.
>ctrl f "Hell.">8 matchesNobody ITT has posted these verses yet because most protestants are biblically illiterate and this board is mostly populated by ideologically bent dunning kreuger midwits or shills. Frankly, it's embarrassing how disturbingly incomplete and shallow your catechesis and I feel silly for even bothering to spoonfeed you.16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.Jesus can personally save someone who has never heard his name before. That's not something that can stop him. This should be obvious, that there are people he would save that never heard his name spoken in their earthly lives even once. Because they followed their conscience, the Logos written in their hearts which is the image of God all men are created in. When you follow your conscience, you follow the voice of Jesus himself.12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)>the doers of the law shall be justified>the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law>a law unto themselves>the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witnessWhen heathens who have never heard the gospel or Christ's name do the commandments of Christ during his ministry, they engage with his faith even unwittingly.It you think one needs to know Jesus' name to be saved, you are Gnostic. Heresy, full stop.
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.God is going to judge people who have heard the gospel and affirm it (so called Christians) but do not follow his commandments with harsher severity than the ignorant heathen.To whom much is given, much more is required. And what great a gift is the gospel, and the knowledge it contains. When you obtain knowledge of the truth, you have a newfound responsibility and obligation to act accordingly that you did not have before.If you willingly shirk these duties, in full knowledge that you it is expected of you to obey in all humility, there is no sense in which you can be considered faithful. It is a dire sin, and moreover one which the ignorant heathen are incapable of committing. That is the weight of the cross you are called to carry, and you should celebrate being given the opportunity because it is a great honor to be vigilant. What happens to a night watch who is found asleep at the post?
>>18017022According to Catholics, at least:>natural law exists in our hearts and often manifests as conscience and guilt>if farmer lived according to the natural law as was possible within his faculties and loved his neighbour, then there is a good chance God will deem him worthy>"his faculties" are hard to determine for anybody other than God, so there's no point in judging him - this is a sin in itself.>Therefore, the Catholics don't know.The Orthodox will probably say it is a mystery of God and to be determined by the love and grace of Him.The Protestants? Depends, but usually unambiguous condemnation to the lava pit.
>>180215761. Your line of thinking completely invalidates evangelization and makes Christianity redundant.2. It contradicts Jesus's own words in John 14:63. At no point before V2 was this belief considered orthodox. On the contrary, it was commonly believed that all non-Christian and non-Jewish people ended up in hell, no exceptions, ever. That goes for Plato, Aristotle, Confucius etc. too.
>>18017112sin of intentional ignorance
>>18019594>God is good>will torture a good kind man for eternity just because he never read the bibleI dunno this interpretation just makes the LORD appear like some malevolent desert demon which does make it hard to see how you can then trust the rest of the Bible. even the "sinners just cease to exist" people are depicting an infinitely more good being than the eternal hellfire people are
>>18022110>invalidates evangelizationno Christians are chosen for a specific mission that non-Christians are not given nor expected to completewith it comes certain responsibility, to live righteously as an example to the nations of the life of Christ that is the gospel22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.this is the weight of truth, knowledge of him takes away your excuseit's to steer the nations away from their sin and error, to teach them about the way of life and the truth so that those who might not naturally forgive and treat others as themselves might come to repent through the extraordinary powers of the Holy Spirit invested in the Church alonethe fact that heathens might be saved *despite* false religion does in no way invalidate the teachings of Jesus nor those who belong to his body>Jesus's own words in John 14:6conscience is literally your part of your inheritance of the image of God (Jesus Christ himself) you don't need to be nominally Christian to follow your conscienceJesus has ways of making his will known to every man, when it comes to the particular details of their livesbut his doctrines on the Mosaic covenant in relation to his new covenant were given to the apostles for promulgation due to God's promise to Abraham and Moses >no point before V2 was this belief considered orthodoxFeenyism, the heresy that all non-Catholics go to hell, was condemned as early as 1949 (decades before V2). >it was commonly believed that all non-Christian and non-Jewish people ended up in hell, no exceptionsJustin Martyr, Gregory of Nazianzus, and many others disagree people can follow the way of Christ, who have never heard his namejust as many who visibly belong to the Church in name are not saved, many who visibly do not belong to the Church in fact are by the decision of Christ alonehe is a righteous judge, better than any judge on earth, perfect and trust that
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is essentially a legal restriction on the Church's ability to declare someone a saintif you cannot grasp legalistic language, your chances of actually understanding it are slimif you aren't a visible member of the Church, then they cannot legally proclaim you to be savedthat doesn't mean you are necessarily damnedbeing declared a saint doesn't make you one, it's simply a formal recognition of factthere are many saints that are still unrecognized, if I had to guess I'd say most saints fall into that category and their true number will only be revealed on the last daysalvation comes through the Church alone (and no other religion can claim salvation might be through them also), but is not restricted to it's visible membersit is like a cup that is always overflowingthis liquid is grace, and while it comes from one vessel it is super abundant and not limited to the carrying capacity of the vessel the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost covered the whole earth, because Christ died for the sins of the whole world and not just the chosen people (that cursed heresy of so-called limited atonement)through ways that are mysterious to us, this grace finds recipients that are not of this fold and are yet made one flock2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him....6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
>>18017022>die>remain dead until the end times>Armageddon and other crazy shit ensues>dead get resurrected>Christ comes back to rule over Earth for 1000 years>everyone including the resurrected dead gets another chance to accept Christ>eventually everyone is judged for eternal life or lake of fire>whoever accepted Christ then are saved (which is probably everyone by that point)source: Revelations
>>18017022It's too early to say. Natives are not even recognized for smoking before everyone else. We ("Christian" community) will discuss it on "judgement day" when all of the dust settles. That one is for sure.
