It's hilarious how this region spent 700+ years under Muslim rule yet ended up with far less non european ancestry than virtually all of Greece and most of Italy.It's basically the proof that being invaded by a foreign power is usually not what cause an increase of non European (or otherwise) ancestry in a population but is the result of internal policies of migration and assimilation of racially foreign elements. Even what little north african DNA these people have can be traced to the Roman period and in fact, the Muslim conquest indirectly caused it to be reduced drastically as modern Iberians have about 2 to 3 times less north african ancestry than Roman era Iberians did. This is because of the resettlement of these southern regions from the northern ones, which were less affected by the Roman era migrations both for geographic and economic reasons as the north was less romanized and therefore less wealthy.
The effect of conquests on genetics is often overblown in general. After the initial invasion the conquerors are always more likely to mingle with imported women of their own ethnicity and culture than to claim women of conquered people in masses.
Iberian cuckolds have 10x more non-European YDNA than Italians and Greeks. African E1b and Arab J1 subclades are 30% of Iberian YDNA. Who gives a shit about a bit less autosomal ancestry when Iberians literally got cuckolded by Africans and Arabs, while North Africans and Arabs did not get raped by Spajeets.Few percentage points more foreign ancestry with same YDNA >>>>>>> Getting raped by Africans and Arabs shifting the YDNA
>>18017149At least they’re not white piss drinking barbarians
>>18017159Well the berbers and arabs in spain did the opposite. They went out of their way to breed with the local women. Some say they had a obsession with blondes and redheads.
>>18017149It's also important to note that most muslims in al andalus and in some periods virtually all of them were local converts. Muslim Spain had more in common with Bosnia than with any contemporary non european muslim countries>>18017167>Iberian cuckolds have 10x more non-European YDNA than Italians and Greeks. African E1b and Arab J1 subclades are 30% of Iberian YDNA.Me when I invent stuff>>18017182yes but they were so few of them that it didn't have any impact on a large scale
>>18017167>E1b and Arab J1 subclades are 30% of Iberian YDNA. italians also have a lot of E(v-13), greeks have much much more e-v13, the peloponnese is half e-v13, nafri specific e-m81 and j1 are like 5% in all of spain>>18017149exactly, you can see the same thing in greece, they have anatolian and levantine ancestry from the roman empire and little to no anatolian turkish ancestry
>>18017182Source? Besides your blacked fantasies?
>>18017253no he's right but there weren't that many of them so it didn't really impact the genetics of the country in any meaningful way
>>18017248E-V13 didn't come from Africans and is nowhere near half of Italy or Greece.E-M81 and J1 15% of Portugal and Spain came directly from Arabs and Berbers raping Iberians for 800 years.You can also see the unusually high amount of E1b1a and E1a which are both Black African haplogroups raped into Portuguese and Spaniards. That's also why you have SSA ancestry.Greeks and Italians have none of that shit, because they weren't conquered and raped for 800 years by literal Africans.
>>18017260>E-V13 didn't come from Africans correct>E-V13 didn't come from Africans and is nowhere near half of Italy or Greece.overall there's more E in italy and especially greece than there is in spain, you have to consider specific nafri clades, you can't say just E1b, and specific nafri clades that are rare in spain, that was my point>E-M81 and J1 15% of Portugal and Spain came directly from Arabs and Berbers raping Iberians for 800 years.look >>18017248 4% e-m81 and 1% j1or picrel, portugal has a bit more but ultimately it averages around 8% e-m81, spain is 1 to 4% e-m81J1 is also much more common in italy and especially greece than it is in spain or portugalthis thread isn't about italy or greece, leave
>>18017260>E-M81 and J1 15% of Portugal and Spain came directly from Arabs and Berbers raping Iberians for 800 years.First 30% now 15% kek keep going
>>18017270>overall there's more E in italy and especially greeceNo, there isn't. The various Arab, Berber, and Black E subclades are up to 15% here >>18017248 and in your pic show higher in Cantabria 41% (all E-M81) and Portugal 20% (mostly E-M81). Nothing like that exists in Greece or Italy.Spaniards and Portuguese were raped for 800 years by Arabs, Berbers, and Blacks. They also have Black E1a and E1b1a which no one else in Europe has.
>>18017302>No, there isn't. overall there is more e1b in greece and italy, it's from balkan e-v13 of course, hence why you have to specify what clades of e1b you're talking about, as for j1, it's basically non existent in iberia (less than 1%), it's more common in greece >The various Arab, Berber, and Black E subclades are up to 15% here >>18017248 and in your pic show higher in Cantabria 41% (all E-M81) and Portugal 20% (mostly E-M81). Nothing like that exists in Greece or Italy.i don't know what is the point of this conversation if you're just going to liehere >>18017248 e-m81 average at 4%, not 20, here >>18017270 its higher for portugal, but still not 20%, and lower for spaniards, where no spanish group reaches 4% even (the pasiegos are a small ethnic group of a few thousand people, they're not iberians), even lower than central italians in some cases
>>18017347>overall there is more e1b in greece and italyPortugal (20%) and Spain (41%) have more E by far, including E1a and E1b1a.>e-v13Greek and Italians have this. Spaniards and Portuguese mutts have E-M81 (Berber), E-M78 (Balkan), E1b1a (sub-Saharan African), and E1a (West African).>the pasiegosThey're the same as regular Spanish mutts. E is 20-40% in Iberia.
>>18017371Hilarious how you just make shit up on the spot kek
>>18017378Name one thing I made up, retard. Do you deny E1a and E1b1a are sub-Saharan African haplogroups found in Spaniards and Portuguese cucks? Do you deny E1b1b and J1 are Arab and Berber haplogroups found in Spaniards and Portuguese mutts? This faggot is outright lying that Asiegos that are regular scum are "not Iberian".
>>18017381I'm not the same as the other anon also Pasiegos are Iberians but there's like 25K of them, it's an extremely isolated community.
>>18017391You were pretending that all of Cantabria was 40% E-M81 kek
>>18017371>Portugal (20%) and Spain (41%) have more E by far, including E1a and E1b1a.spain have less than 4% e-m81, pasiegos aren't iberians, greeks are 25-30% e1b due to albanian ancestry>They're the same as regular Spanish mutts. E is 20-40% in Iberia.pasiegos are a small ethnic group that has nothing to do with iberians, and portugese don't have 20% e-m81do you have some sort of problem understanding numbers? do you read 2.2% and you think it's 22?
>>18017394>spain have less than 4% e-m81Undersampled as the Cantabrian Spanish are 41% E-M81 and the Portuguese are 12% E-M81.>greeks are 25-30% e1b Greeks are 10-15% E1b1b. J2, I2, R1a, and R1b are all more frequent. >due to albanian ancestrySo Greeks have European ancestors while Iberians have Black and Nafri male ancestors.>pasiegos are a small ethnic group that has nothing to do with iberiansThey are literal Iberians.>and portugese don't have 20% e-m81They have 12% E-M81 and 25% E, retard. Africans raped Iberians. Iberians raped you.
>>18017397>Undersampled as the Cantabrian Spanish are 41% E-M81 and the Portuguese are 12% E-M81.the cantabrian spanish are not 41% e-m81, that's the pasiegos that are a small irrelevant ethnic group, and spain is not undersampled, it's easily one of the countries with the largest sample sizes out thereportugal is not 12% e-m81, only southern portugal is, the north is 4%do you have a problem understanding a bunch of numbers and letters on a screen?>Greeks are 10-15% E1b1bgreeks are 20-30% e1b, see picrel>They are literal Iberians.no, they're a small ethnic group of non iberians and don't represent cantabrians or iberians in general>They have 12% E-M81 and 25% E, retard. Africans raped Iberians. Iberians raped you.no, the southern ones have 12%, and the remaining E is largely E-v13, i'm not iberian, and iberians weren't raped by nafris anyway
Im spanish with a rare e1b1b clade that is most closely related to m81 but still not m81, that isnt or at least very rarely found in modern north africa at all and mostly in europe (and the americas by extension) nowadays.Originally its def of NW African origin but over time it became mostly european probably due to imperial roman era migrations.Its E-L19 most specifically (as deep as i could get with limited dna test raw data) E-PF2428 btw
>>18017424nafri clade, e-L19 in general is from nafris, most e-L19 are M81 but a few are not
>>18017167>African>E1bfucking turbofaggot haplotroonDidn't a bunch of paleo-Europeans have that haplogroup? Are (you) claiming they were nogs? stupid hooknosed dysgenic gremlin failure of a d&c trollcel>inb4 sourcehere, open your fucking myopic eyeshttps://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml>inb4 jews are 20% E1bof course they are. they are mongrelized after all, everyone knows that
>>18017470>Didn't a bunch of paleo-Europeans have that haplogroup? no, zero presence in paleolithic europeanatolian farmers carried the first clades of E in europe during the neolithic
>>18017149Spanegroid cope
>>18017488are medjeets unable to understand that OP is making an observation about the impact of migrations vs invasion and no one gives a shit about your medjeet fights?
>>18017432yeah im one of those few who are l19 but not m81 (ofc m81 still closely related bc of same direct parent clade, just that split before m81 came to be/took dif route)yeah its a nafri clade tho it doesnt seem to have spread in more modern times like middle ages but rather either metal ages or antiquity, probably the latter thanks to imperial roman era migration from roman africans (romanized berbers/punic)havent seen yet a modern nafri with my specific clade but i have seen some englishmen, french and southern germans with my clade who didnt have any known foreign ancestors and were like autosomal wise identical to their respective ethnicity countrymen.and ofc other spaniards and italians, esp sardinians so maybe its some punic stuff that got romanized
>>18017493medjeets truly are hopeless...
>>18017475>zero presenceby the same 'logic', all the other haplogroups are not European eitherwho are the native Europeans you fucking judenscrub
>>18017167>African E1b and Arab J1 Semitic E1b and Turkish J1Fixed that for you subhuman
Both E-M81 and E-PF2428 originated in the Levant and the oldest known samples are Phoenician. Take your meds btw, you mentally ill samefag.
And after you're done taking your meds, go back to Ethiopia where all E-V13 and E-M123 niggers belong to.
>>18018211>by the same 'logic', all the other haplogroups are not European eitherthere's no logic here, you said something that was wrong and i corrected you, there was no E in paleolithic europe
This. The Islamic conquest of Iberia wasn’t a mass Arab resettlement. The invading armies were relatively small, and the majority population stayed the same: Latin-speaking Christians and Jews who gradually arabized and islamized culturally and linguistically. The elites changed, but the bulk of the people remained mutts.
>>18018352EV13 is 7500 yo and first arose in EuropeI am I2 which dates back 10000 years coming via Anatolia or so they sayI guess it's not paleo enough for (you)go find your A haplo brethren among the Khoi-San or the Sudanese
>>18018293interdasting Are the Guanche descendants of Phoenician explorers?ancient geographers reported Carthage sending out fleets or flotillas past the strait. One was led by some captain named Hanno and allegedly sailed well past the Equator
I will always remember the story of the mixed Arab noble that had the upper half of a 6 foot Chad but legs of a four foot berber
>>18017149Granada moors rebelled and got scattered all over spain in 1570s as punishment so i doubt very many of their descendants still exist there. But the Granada moors were genetically half berber half iberian ancestrally.
yo anyone creating some chatroom or smth to discuss this more deeply love the convo going on here. ive known all ts stuff since the early 2010s when i began learning about archeogenetics as well as the now outdated racial taxonomy phenotypes pseudoscience in forums like theapricityim the spainanon with el19/epf2428 btw>>18017424>>18017550kinda bumping the thread as well since its prolly gonna die, ppl started arguing about irrelevant stuff and fighting and like getting butthurt in general so maybe we should move on somewhere elsemy disc tag if anyone wants to reach out is cchh05
>>18018393paleolithic is a period of history ends 15000-20000 years ago, this is not an opinion, if E was not present in europe before 15000-20000 years ago it's not paleolithic european>I am I2 which dates back 10000 years coming via Anatolia or so they saynope, I in europe is at least from 30000 years ago, so yes paleolithic
>>18017253Transcripts from the era. Historians remarked that many of the "arab" rulers looked like locals bc thry kept buying european women. There was a famous ruler that had blonde hair and blue eyes and would dye his hair black to appear more arab. Arabs in general have a weird obsession with blondes. Also, the muslims would constantly raid christian aka white countries for slaves. You don't even want to know what they did to the white males they captured. Snip snip.
>>18017256Yes. That's fair. In fact spanairds and portugeese have a lot of north african dna but it's not from the moorish invasion. Apparently there's been a lot of north african migrations from north africa. But there was also alot of celtic migrations into the area so doanairds are a weird mix between north africans, celtics and the origonal aryans that invaded and replaced most males in spain.
>>18017253>In his celebrated love treatise The Dove’s Neckring Ibn Hazm went so far as to assert that with only one exception the Umayyad caliphs were “disposed by nature to prefer blondes [...] Every one of them has been fair haired, taking after their mothers, so that this has become a hereditary trait with them [...] I know not whether this was due to a predilection innate in them all, or whether it was in consequence of a family tradition handed down from their ancestors, and which they followed in their turn.”From Simon Barton's article: Marriage Across Frontiers: Sexual Mixing, Power and Identity in Medieval Iberia page 7http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17546559.2011.556700There's more reasons than just looks as to why the Arab families married into local families or locals in general (slaves or not), including to avoid political tension from marrying into other Arab families who would expect political influence as a result. The article goes into depth with this, and discusses why some Christian nobles/kings married off their daughters to their Muslim neighbors.
Andalusia was a white civilization
>>18017149Greeks are slavs larping as ancient greeks doesnt get morr embarrassing than that
>>18017149Didn't a shit ton of Germans and Flemish people flocked to it in the 1800s?
>>18019604some did but there weren't that many of them
>>18017149>sand monkeys>ook ook ooga boogafuck off
>>18017248The only reason why Goths are inferior to the other Germanic tribes that created all of Europe's major nations is because they got literally raped by the Moors that conquered them unlike Charles Martel who named the entire Warhammer franchise after him
>>18021421They were cursed for sacking Rome, same as everyone else, including the Arabs themselves.
>>18021907>>18022131Go back to your other /his thread but before doing that please answer my question: Are the Turks also cursed for sacking Rome's other capital Constantinople?
>>18021421>>18021907Take you meds.
Read my DMs on twitter already you sperg.
>>18022432which account?
>>18019387>>18018818>>18017182Yikes at the tranny and its version of history
