It's nauseating hearing Westerners talk about how Buddhism is all about finding your inner peace and being in harmony with the world blah blah blahKamikaze pilots were taught zen meditation and given training manuals with zen-inspired writing before they went off on suicide missionsSamurai learned Buddhist teachings which taught how to kill and not get negative karma.Myanmar, one of the most brutal and oppressive regimes today, has more Buddhist monks per capita than anywhere in the world.The Mongol Empire made Tibetan Buddhism their main religion. They still frequently raped pillaged and plundered solely to conquer new territory.But yeah, Buddhists are all so peaceful amrite?
The goal is literally to stop existing.Death cult.
>>18019889kys chinkspammer
>>18019889Actually Mongolia was only converted to Vajrayana Buddhism in the 16th-17th centuries. The Yuan emperors were Tibetan Buddhists and did push it aggressively (putting monks in high positions of power and such) but they only ruled half of the Mongol empire at most. And were Chinky sovereigns first, steppe Khans second. Plus it all faded away with their dynasty.The unified empire never adopted a religion that was not their traditional beliefs.Also, Buddhism can be whatever you want it to be, if you interpret the scriptures in a specific way. The Buddha did talk about peace, after all.>>18019891It's a bit more complicated than that, by all accounts. You realize that all is illusion, and thus you stop suffering, and then dissolve.
>>18019930>The goal is totally not to stop existing because everything is fake anyway.Still a death cult, you just don't like the term.>Life is sufferingIs a meme perpetuated by Buddha, and in result, all asia did was suffer for centuries. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
>>18019891Existence is not good thing, people like you deserve thir sufferring.
>>18019936Existence is enjoyable to me because those before me believed in existence and chose to build upon what they had, bringing me a higher standard of living instead of living in the forest. Cope and sneed about it.
Yeah it seems there’s a bit of confusion with how a Buddhist life is supposed to be. It’s not just about living a peaceful life like a monk so much as it is about living the life you live in a peaceful way, with inner peace regardless of what external circumstances you find yourself.
>>18019891The goal is not to dissolve the ego into nothing. The goal is to reduce self importance of the ego down not to nothing but to the level of all other earthly things. To the point where you ego is not below but completely equal to and seen and as no different to things like your car, a lightbulb, Burger King etc. The goal is not an intentional destruction of anything. But achieve a state of mind of complete and total equanimity regarding all material things including your ego which belongs here in the material. The mental state of pure equanitmty is one of the highest goals and achievements in Buddhism.I really want to know what faggot keeps pushing the “death cult” meme. That’s not Buddhism at all if you see ego as bad or wish to destroy it then that destroys your equanimity and Buddhism teaches against that. It’s always religious topics that every dumbfuck thinks they know everything. You don’t see this level is shitty discourse with philosophy as much as most people there at least try to gain a basic understand what they’re talking about first.
>>18019889
>>18019935>Still a death cult, Call it whatever you want. Christianity is a death cult. Also, you misrepresented me. It's not that everything is fake, because most Buddhists believe in an underlying existence. As far as I am aware, Nirvana is melding into that and stopping the cycle.>Is a meme perpetuated by Buddha, and in result, all asia did was suffer for centuries. As opposed to the most Joyful and Serene historical record of Europe and the Middle East, I'm sure. But they made the Steam Engine, which means it's all ok because the Steam Engine is an Objective Good, just like the SWIFT banking System and Plastic Surgery.
>>18020016I guess Nirvana would be a state of clarity. You realize the true nature of all things and achieve wellness because of it.
>>18020016For the record, I respect christianity deeply. Just that it somewhat idolizes death, and as such would fall into "death cult".
I don't understand the point of Buddhism, unironically.>flies reincarnateWho gives a shit? 99.9% will never remember past lives, which means you're practically dying and annihilated as a person.Secondly, if people are constantly reproducing, then souls must come from somewhere. Like, what if, for example, so many people become Buddhists and attain nirvana in life, will people simply stop being born?
>>18020061I can try to answer some for youFirst souls are not finite. Souls are like fire they don’t come from anywhere, the potential for it exists everywhere. You need only the right conditions. Fire can be made anywhere inside, outside, on the ground on a roof etc. you just need fuel, oxygen and a spark. Souls arise the same as fire. The potential is always extant in the air you just need right conditions that is a functioning body and mind. The reincarnation thing. The problem comes from you seeing as separate individual instances that are connected like being a human and then forgetting and being an animal. It’s more like one single large process. Whats the point of you just forget? You don’t. Individual life egos have a veil of amnesia but consciousness remembers.
>>18020143How do you prove any of that if we cannot measure souls?
>>18020016Christianity is also a death cult, indeed. As is Islam. The point is to leave this earth there too.
>>18020163What exactly do you want proof for? To satisfy your curiosity? To lord over others that you have the correct answers and they don’t? So you don’t waste time thinking and believing the wrong things? Why do you care? Is there something deep inside you that makes you feel that something bad will happen if you don’t figure out the correct answer asap? LolIf you want proof you shall have it. But not without having made yourself worthy and that knowledge will be given. If you want someone to just come and tell you the answer and then you can live your life in peace and without worry knowing someone finally provided the proof you needed to stop your search. Well in that case I’m afraid you shall receive nothing neither answers nor peace.
>>18019889>Buddhism is all about finding your inner peace>People who need inner peace during outer turmoil reach out for itI'm not Buddhist but you're kinda making a case for the religion
>>18020189By those standards Mesoamerican religions are, ironically— not a death Cult. They had an afterlife, but it works different.
Christians call Buddhism a death cult because they don't understand how it treats the logosIn christianity the logos is an important aspect of God that created the world. That creation is viewed as holy and revered. If you withdraw from creation you are withdrawing from christ and God who made it for you.They ignore the question of why suffering exists in the perfect creation.In buddhism one understands that this creative impulse that makes the world is not a God to revere but an aspect of the consciousness and part of dependent origination. The creative impulse is what makes us cling to fabricated identities like "this is what I am" or "this is what the world is." The logos is the outermost part of the consciousness that forms a self-image and then an image of the rest of the world in relation. It's actually unnecessary. The theravada tradition is to sublimate the logos and retreat into the inner oneness of the Father's purity, without outward creation of a world, which we call "nirvana."The mahayana tradition does not deny the logos but maintains it as one remains in the world to teach. There is no need for sublimation.No tradition teaches specifically that the world is "evil" or "bad," but only that suffering is inherent in it because of the way is rendered, through our sense organs which perceive everything on a spectrum, including one of pleasant and unpleasant, just like our eyes use spectrums of light and dark or red to blue to make an image.To not have suffering means to not render the world in this way.
>>18020324>They ignore the question of why suffering exists in the perfect creation.In perfect creation? It doesn't.>In buddhism one understands that this creative impulse that makes the world is not a God to revere but an aspect of the consciousness and part of dependent origination.This sentence would be a lot more informative if "the consciousness" was introduced at some point, but one way or another you still seem to have nailed why Christianity sees Buddhism as a death cult. Because it's asking people to go beneath personhood. That is death.
>>18019889buddhism is not your masculine chad ideology slop.stop.
>>18019930Mongolia is still very Buddhist to this day. I'd say tibetan buddhism made a permanent impact on them.>And were Chinky sovereigns firstThey pretended to be for the majority Han pop.>The Buddha did talk about peace, after all.I'm trying to think of a sutra where the buddha talked about peace and I can't. Not saying I'm an expert. He seemed to want to free people of their illusions, but never claimed they should be peaceful
>>18019889>The Mongol Empire made Tibetan Buddhism their main religion.No. Buddhism only became popular amongst the Mongols much later, because it was enforcement by the Manchus.
>>18020397>Mongolia is still very Buddhist to this day. This is because they were converted (now for real) to Tibetan Buddhism from the 16th century onward. It's archeologically and historically attested they were Shamanists before this.>They pretended to be for the majority Han pop.Sure. The point still stands that the Mongol empire and it's non-Yuan successors were never Buddhist.>I'm trying to think of a sutra where the buddha talked about peace and I can't.Fair point. e talked about right action and such. But never about peace. Though it can be construed that way.
>>18020521I have a weird Fization on tibetan Buddhism because it's exotic and anti-conventional.
>>18020293Yeah, a religion that celebrates life instead of death or having life be subservient to death is a death cult. Seeing earth as a mere test chamber for example in christianity. Real human spirit celebrates life, it's all we're sure to have.
>>18019889>Myanmar, one of the most brutal and oppressive regimes todayHinayana is a fake sect that was revived from the brink by Theosophists.
>>18020566Pardon me, I meant to type "celebrates death over life" instead of "life over death.
Buddhism is really a footnote to Daoism. OP why are you so mad?
>>18020584Daoism is a very bizarre footnote next to confucianism. Literally doesn't exist outside of China. Plus Taoism is confucing.
>>18019889>worldly people rationalize their religion to support their violent goalsThis happens with every religion
>>18019889>Samurai learned Buddhist teachings which taught how to kill and not get negative karmaSuch as?
Violence is inevitable, but Buddhism's job is to help you cope with a violent life and probable death. It's must better than being a demented christcuck who literally tried to get themselves killed because they thought that would give them a one-way ticket to their sky daddy's mansion
>>18019889Gnosticism with an oriental twist.>Spiritual = Good>Material = Bad>Life is suffering>You too can escape the matrix!Retarded, fake and gay, demonic in nature, brown-coded, and fem-brained.
>>18020733>Retarded thesis>90 IQ X.com For You Page Buzzword saladFuck you, Nigger.
>>18020743>Can't refute any of it because he knows it true>"f-f-fuck you!" Seethe about it. You're Japanese LARP is as surface level and retarded as your personality.
>>18020603>Daoism is a footnote of ConfucianismIt is not
>>18020163>prove any of thatThe leap of faith that reaches beyond reason and bridges the gap. In Buddhism when doubt creeps in they say to take refuge in the Triple Jewel: the teacher (historical Buddha, or a living awakened teacher), the teaching, and the community of practitioners (Sangha).
>>18020760There is nothing to refute. Anyone with understanding of both topics above wikipedia skim level understand why your comparison is stupid. You are shoveling shit into your mouth while shouting "REFUH ME! REFUH ME!"
>>18020525>tibetan Buddhism because it's exotic and anti-conventional.Tantric school is based. It's like the school for outsiders and impatient weirdos who want to get jumped in and progress quickly. The mainstream schools talk about slowly cultivating your understanding over many lifetimes.
>>18020784I know. But shitpost for shitpost. I should have added that confucianism was a footnote to Legalism to really sell it.
>>18020249Proof that souls exist and so there is reason to believe we must cherish the soul/what happens to it after life. If we cannot prove the soul or the buddhist version of the soul lives, why should we dedicate our lives to that idea?
Sure, modern Western popularization often cherry-picks with meditation, mindfulness, karma, and inner peace. Get over it.
>>18020901NTA but the Anon would have to explain the concept to you, explain the methods to you, convince you the methods are valid and then conduct experiments you will trust enough, all to conclude souls. Do you think that would be worth it to him? Why don't you instead prove to him that all consciousness (which is what soul often boils down to) is reducible to matter?
>>18020394In the early stages it was essentially a violent neoplatonist skinhead movement, before it degenerated.
>>18021178you people are so retarded
>>18019889it’s literally the very first rule
>>18019889>Tibetan BuddhismAdharmaI consider most of Theravada and Mahayana aligned with the Dharma, but fuck Tibetan Buddhism, lol. They can go back to eating shit, which is what they literally did during some "Buddhist" rituals.Disgusting barbarians. Even Han Shan hated the Tibetans.
>>18020521Yeah and they still practice shamanism, but i think you're downplaying how much they adopted buddhism. They weren't really converted, they found buddhism and really liked it.>The point still stands that the Mongol empire and it's non-Yuan successors were never Buddhist.The non-Yuan parts sure, but I'm quite certain Tibetan Buddhism was sort of the offical religion of the Yuan Dynasty?>Fair point. e talked about right action and such. But never about peace. Though it can be construed that way.I'm pretty sure Buddha wanted ppl to be peaceful even if he doesn't say it explicitly.>>18020525Tibetan Buddhism is pretty dope. You got a bunch of buddhas and bodhisattvas with diffetent powers like some avengers shit, and you can become their disciples and learn their powers for yourself.
>>18019939>I was lucky enough to be born in a very nice family, so I'm better than youThis is exactly why people get reincarnated into bad lives: because they think themselves superior to others due to the positive circumstances of the present, and farm bad karma that has to be reaped eventually
>>18022044>You got a bunch of buddhas and bodhisattvas with diffetent powers like some avengers shit, and you can become their disciples and learn their powers for yourself.Unless these beings actually appear to me in some way, I'm not going to believe in their existence.Same goes for Jesus Christ
>>18019889>It's nauseating hearing Westerners talk about how Buddhism is all about finding your inner peace and being in harmony with the world blah blah blahI mean I know Buddhism is about transcending the world but have you seen a Buddhist monk? They're always so chill and happy.>The Mongol Empire made Tibetan Buddhism their main religion. They still frequently raped pillaged and plundered solely to conquer new territory.When did the Mongols stopped being tengrists and converted to Buddhism.
>>18019935>Still a death cultDeath is followed by rebirth, Buddhists strive to end samsaric existence. It's much more complex than you're making it look, and obviously much more complex than you can understand.
>>18020061>99.9% will never remember past lives, which means you're practically dying and annihilated as a person.The number of people remembering their previous lives can be increased.In a more spiritual civilization everyone could remember their previous lives.
>>18022078>death is followed by rebirth[citation needed]
>>18022054Being born into a nice family doesn't make me better than anyone. Choosing to embrace existence and leaving something better behind for the next ones rather than "just accept that life is supposed to be suffering and hope for the best" makes me better than Buddhists.
>>18022104>Being born into a nice family doesn't make me better than anyone.Have to say, that's quite the different tone compared to:>Existence is enjoyable to me because those before me believed in existence and chose to build upon what they had, bringing me a higher standard of living instead of living in the forest. Cope and sneed about it.>Choosing to embrace existence and leaving something better behind for the next ones rather than "just accept that life is supposed to be suffering and hope for the best" makes me better than Buddhists.That's an incredibly superficial understanding of Buddhism, I would recommend you actually spend some time studying the religion before deciding that you're "better" (in the eyes of whom?) than hundreds of millions of people who belong to said religion
>>18022180It's exactly the same tone.>Humans who build upon that which have been granted to them by those before in order to further human progression is good.There is no buddhist reasoning to do that though, as either "existence is an illusion" or "life leads to wanting and wanting is suffering so life is suffering" are not life-affirming positions to take and they do not result in human progress. See for example, India, the birthplace of buddhism, where a billion indians are trying to escape from to live in literally any other country in the world. If you surround yourself with mysticism, you do not feel the pressure to improve the human condition. You just want to get to "the correct afterlife".
>>18019889>Myanmar, one of the most brutal and oppressive regimes today, has more Buddhist monks per capita than anywhere in the world. >t. seething Rohingya scum.
>>18019891Best, single lined description of Islam.
>>18022246I am that anon, and death cult is literally an accurate description for 95% of modern religion. The version of "stop existing" always involves dying in this real world to either become nothing or join some faggoty admin room in the sky
>>18022101Buddhism
>>18020901I AM that anon. To prove a soul exists would be very similar to proving you exist. What we call the soul, like many things, is just a vague human approximation of a sensation or phenomena we experience. When the feeling or idea or concept of a “soul” arises in us our mind is doing its best to make sense of the information it’s receivingg from the “soul archetype”. As Plato says all things have their origin in the ideal realm first. Kabbalah also states this. Most confusion comes from a grievous misunderstanding of the world. Many take the world to be all there is and here our lives are absolute. But in truth this world is a womb. As a man puts his seed into a mother and waits for the baby to gestate and be born. As did God put his us, his seed, into the mother, the earth. Here we shall remain in her womb until we are sufficiently mature to be born into true reality. We cannot be born early this would be akin to spiritual abortion or premature birth. We would not be ready for true life. the baby in the womb knows nothing outside the walls of the womb. It hears faint and vague rumblings outside of incomprehensible origin. Knowing only the walls it can do little more than speculate and be afraid. So it is with us we all hear the vague rumblings of things beyond our womb reality and all we can manage is our baby explanations for the phenomena and concepts we hear and see but are yet unable to grasp and known until we are truly born. You ask for proof of the soul and I just typed a bunch of nonsense lol but if you want it you can have it. Real true actual proof without even a shadow of doubt. However this requires maturation and only true birth brings forth true sight. Until then we are all engaged in childish and fearful baby speculation from the darkness of the womb. Sorry for long winded reply but I said all that was needed. I hope it has shed some light for you gentlemen.
>>18022628We can prove I exist, I can shake your hand. We can interact physically. We can converse. These are proofs that we exist in physical space, namely that we can interact with physical space. Souls don't have that, you have to "just believe". Ergo it's suspect from the start to even come up with the idea of a soul. This thing that no one can see, hear, smell or feel or measure in any way is not something to assume exists. Your recycled cave allegory has nothing to do with that. But of course you would resort to that, Plato was a dumbass mystic as well.
>>18022702>We can interact physically.>WeWho's that? Our bodies can interact materially even if "we" are both dead.>Souls don't have that, you have to "just believe".Quite the contrary. Soul is the first principle. The body is inferred.
>>18020720SAAR
>>18022704You reject your senses and mind in favor of mysticism. You are not worth talking to.
>>18022709I affirmed we have bodies. Which sense did I reject? Was it that I challenged your dogma?
>>18022719You reject the senses when you say the soul is primary and the rest follows, as the soul is not measurable by any sense. You arrive at a conclusion before you arrive at observations. The same as any bible thumper.
>>18020603>Taoism literally doesn't exist outside of ChinaIt spread to Japan, it's where onmyoji come from. Almost certainly the rest of the Sinosphere got it too but I don't know those countries as well.
>>18022731The soul is the one doing the observations. That's why it's the first principle. A mesurement by definition cannot be a first principle because it was established on principles of quantification and comparison, which themselves were established at some point. You need to stop taking your methods for granted and look into them a little bit more.
>>18019891Doesn't every religion claim to hate the "material world" because it's icky?
>>18022702I am the one you replied to. You trust your eyes too much friend. I can shake your hand? No I can feel a sensation of my hand touching another, I can feel the motion. I can see you in front of me shaking hand.Are these really proofs of existence? Or is the sensation of my hand in yours produced by my mind as a dream? That feeling of touch and motion exists entirely in the mind. You can see me shaking your hand? Is it your sight? Is there such thing as your sight is or is there only SIGHT itself pure and impersonal whose light tricks are also produced by mind? You are you so bold as to make claims on sight as if you own it?You’re arguement hinges on that you believe things are and real and unreal based entirely from your senses. How are you so confident your senses are real and concrete? You should is it exceptionally easy to trick the senses. Why would you put so much trust into something so easily manipulated? You should build your castle on hard ground and not sand lol. It seems you need physical proof of the soul to believe as you seem to have no confidence in yourself, poor thing. If you were born 1000 years ago you would have said with confidence that radio waves and infrared were not real because they could not be surmised by the senses but time will prove you a liar.My final advice to you is get off your high horse and maybe you might learn something
>>18022749Yes, most boil down to "humanity is born filthy/in sin and must rely on the philosopher king to be saved from their (((base))) nature. They commonly reject "earthly pleasures" like drinking with your friends, having sex without pledging your bond to their god.
>>18022905I gave mostly christian examples but for buddhism iirc a lot of them are discipline junkies that are vegetarian/starve themselves etc.
>>18019936Then stop existing, while people like me will continue to exist and matter.
>>18022246Where does islam make that its goal? The fact that it has so many norms and laws proves otherwise.
>>18019889Jesus was a buddhist. The gospel of Thomas proves it.
>>18022944
>>18019936I can see how a jeet or bug would feel this way.My condolences. If you reincarnate into a White man you will understand why we enjoy existing.
>>18022944Indian gurus often put his picture up in their little circle of saints, along with Ramanamaharshi or Yogananda or whoever are their favorites
>>18022944The Gospel of Thomas is Gnostic and says nothing about India. All extant "Evidence" for Jesus' trip to India has been shown to be fabricated.>>18024224You can also find a few Hindu temples with statues of Jesus and Mary inside. Usually in Diaspora Hindu (Caribbean, Mauritius, Sychelles, Fiji) places though, in India where people are more hostile to Christianity due to missionaries it's uncommon.Those religions are famously non-exclusivist with some exceptions. Literally anything can be syncretised, with a few marked exceptions (IE, the metaphysical prescriptions of Buddhism, Abrahamic conception of God, etc.).
>>18022824I require proof precisely because I value myself, because I believe in my mind and senses. It takes zero confidence in one's self, and especially zero selfrespect, to say "Oh I cannot possibly know anything for sure, so mysticism is the answer". The reason humans are still here, that we not only survive but thrive in this world, is because of our human senses and mind and their inparalleled capacity to interpret the truth correctly. What we can and can't eat, how we defend ourselves from those stronger than us, how we make technology to make life easier for everyone. To then turn around and outsource your idea of reality to a philosopher king that uses mysticism to threaten you with either hell or reincarnation into a fly, it matters not. It is a direct self-betrayal. I believe in humans. You believe in ghosts.
>>18024552>The Gospel of Thomas is Gnostic and says nothing about India. All extant "Evidence" for Jesus' trip to India has been shown to be fabricated.There is the possibility that buddhists managed to get to egypt. Maybe Jesus learned from the buddhists in the roman empire?
>>18024565>human senses and mind>Unparralled capacity to interpret the truth correctlyHahahah I hope you are joking. Like when the eyes mistake a pile of clothes in the dark as a person. Like when the eyes don’t notice things right in front of it. Like When the ears hear voices that aren’t there. Like when the mind assumes things about other people that turn out to be false.Interpret the truth correctly? So what about the minds and senses of people who believe in what you call “ghosts” and “mysticism” was their mind interpreting truth correctly then? It must have right you yourself said the mind has a “unparalleled capacity for interpreting truth correctly” So my mind that discovered all these mystical woo woo things you hate so much was interpreting truth correctly you agree? All the minds of trillion's of people who lived since humanity began, majority of whom believed in the supernatural. They of course according to you interpreted truth correctly and since a majority of humans in history were religious or spiritual then that would be the correct answer now then wouldn’t it?
>>18024565>It takes zero confidence in one's self, and especially zero selfrespectIt is the small mind, the one that does not identify what can and cannot be eaten, what cannot defend against others, what cannot make technology, what cannot ease the burdens of others, that places undue and blind belief in these accomplishments as unerring facets of a concrete system. You may only trust in yourself as there is not anything to trust in, having no capacity to perform the miracles you worship. From your position on the outside, all you see is an impenetrable black box. With no insight or relevant personal experience doing these things, you are left with a surety of obfuscation. You would claim self-respect on the basis of the accomplishments of others. The confidence you place isn't in your self or your senses, it is in your ignorance. You will fight to the end refusing to acknowledge something so trivial as the fundamental limitations of your material vessel. A failure of such a basic test is what makes your self-confidence a cover for foolishness. May your path guide you to an alleviation of your ignorance. Namaste.
>>18019889>Mahayana BuddhismLiterally the Buddhist equivalent to batshit evangelical cults>Tibetan BuddhismMormonism>ZenProbably the most evil school of all. Perversions of Daoist teachings syncretized with aforementioned batshit evangelical cults.
>>18025188I mean, maybe? Some speculate that a group of Monks was in alexandria at one time. But there is nothing particularly Buddhist Jesus does in the Gospels IMO. Unless you disagree, in which case i'd like to hear you out.>>18025334You sound like a protestant who became a Therevadin. Also why single out Zen specifically.
>>18019891The last sentence says it all. Buddhists pretend like they're so virtuous that they don't even want to step on a bug, but it's funny how honesty is not one of those virtues. If you literally worship death then why not just be honest about it? Because your cult would be exposed for what it is, that's why.
>>18020003The "meme" comes from the fact that Buddhists worship death. In Buddhism, being re-born is seen as a bad thing. In Christianity on the other hand, being born again is a good thing.
