Fantasy aside, was there a realistic way Germany could have won WW2?
It involves either not attacking Russia and trying to starve the UK into a peace agreement through submarine warfare (similarly to WW1), or attacking Russia together with Japan and leaving the US alone
>>18022279Don’t invade the Soviet Union
>>18022279Civil war in ussr or an asteroid larger than Tunguska that destroys soviets
>>18022288>>18022283The war would have happened either wayThey knew the Soviet Union had more resources and Stalin was doing a massive buildupIf anything, they should have invaded sooner, but they got delayed from helping Italians in Greece
>>18022279>was there a realistic way Germany could have won WW2?By not starting.
>>18022294Stalin was purging his army. They weren’t invading anytime soon
>>18022279Unite the entirety of Europe, the US and East Asia against the Soviets
Why was Hitler so bad at diplomacy? Why did he invade Poland instead of signing an agreement with the USSR and Poland to have all Jews in Germany deported to there instead? Why was Poland even apart of his German expansionist policy? Why couldn't he have just peacefully unified Germany and Austria and made Switzerland a client state? Why did he have to go and piss everyone off?
>>18022294Finland was attacked in 1939 and essentially staved off the enemy despite numerical and equipment inferiority.Germany could have done essentially the same.Russians are good at defending, not at attacking
>>18022310Poles were chimping out and massacring German civilians
>>18022310Muh Polish corridor
>>18022310>Why did he invade Poland instead of signing an agreement with the USSR and Poland to have all Jews in Germany deported to there instead?The invasion of Poland was about Danzig, not Jews.And Poland and Russia already had their own Jews to deal with, they wouldn't have wanted more of them.In the late 30s, German Jews tried to flee Germany and found out that pretty much no country wanted them>Why was Poland even apart of his German expansionist policy?Check a map of 1914 Germany>Why couldn't he have just peacefully unified Germany and AustriaThe Versailles Treaty forbade that. There was already an attempt in that sense in 1918-1919 and it was explicitly thwarted by the Allies.Austria WAS peacefully annexed to Germany in 1938, by the way, even if it contradicted Versailles>and made Switzerland a client state?There was no specific reason to invade Switzerland
>>18022315So the answer was to invade Poland knowing it would force the UK to get involved with your war? Surely there was a million different ways Hitler could've gone about doing this. He signed an agreement with the USSR to have Poland partitioned despite endlessly seething over Bolsheviks. I think Hitler may have just been a bad and irrational leader, and Polish violence over their native German population was just a Casus belli because Hitler just wanted an excuse to carry out his expansionist policy.
>>18022317>they wouldn't have wanted more of them.Sure they would've, especially the USSR, that was literally the point of the Jewish Autonomous Oblast
His biggest mistake was thinking A*glos could be reasoned withHe unironically thought Britain would be their ally after the warHe should never have showed them mercy
>>18022315What was his excuse for France?
>>18022321The USSR would have been highly distrustful of a sudden influx of people who had lived all their lives in a capitalist regime, regardless of their ethnicity.If said people can do no manual labour, that's even worse for their prospects in the Soviet Union
>>18022279If he started with the whores
>>18022324France declared war on Germany on September 3, in fact France invaded German soil months before the opposite occurred: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive (Yes, memeworthy name)
>>18022279Maybe? Things that could of done better is having Goring either being fired or listening to his pilots during the BoB, Mussolini not being a retard trying to take greece and actualy seizing the suez canal, Germany not vastly over extending their supply lines during the invasion of the USSR, and making fucking winter clothing for the troops.The biggest issues was Oil, Germany biggest advantage was their tank warfare but they constantly ran out of fuel.
>>18022324France literally declared War on germanyWhat was he supposed to do?
>>18022322>He unironically thought Britain would be their ally after the warHe did not, the moment he went into Belgium he knew there was never going to be a chance
>>18022315do you have bomes and order?
>>18022279no, germany was too weak
>>18022345Now show the kill ratio
>>18022345Thank you lend-lease!
>>18022347Less russian soldiers died than german one>>18022348lend-lease in June 1941?
>>18022351Lend-lease started in January 1941
>>18022354yeah, hitler was sending them weapons in exchange for food but that's on him
>>18022347like 20 m krauts died according to nazis
>>18022294>>If anything, they should have invaded sooner, but they got delayed from helping Italians in GreeceInvading sooner would actually have be worse. During spring time, most of the soviet roads were just flat out mud, the germans would of got stuck right out of the gate.
>>18022348>lend-lease when USSR was still considered germany's allysomeone is seething that his little prussian village got stomped flat
>>18022351>Less russian soldiers died than german one
>>18022372yes, germany got owned, sorrydon't worry, at least nazis murdered a lot of jews and hohol civilians to make up for the "kill ratio" lol
>>18022377Germans only killed partisans as per the Geneva convention. Did the USSR agree to the Geneva convention?LMAO
>>18022449faggotler himself said he won't care about geneva conventionyou wanted a total war and you got it :-)
Only if America doesn't enter the war and launches the Manhattan project. Even if Germany wins against the Soviets and brits in Europe, they're getting nuked in 1945
>>18022496vgh
>>18022455The only Hitler order that ever contravened Geneva was the commisar order and even that was rescinded. Commies wanted total war and they got it. Look at them now. All gone and every where that isn't liberal capitalism is national socialism.
>>18022565
>>18022279>Fantasy aside
>>18022565> and every where that isn't liberal capitalism is national socialism.Such as?
Yes1. Somehow capture the BEF in France and hope that it's enough to tilt Britain into peace.2. Somehow learn to co-exist with the USSR as Axis member and hope it works out.Both are theoretically possible but in practice probably require divine intervention.
>>18022279Yes, if they did everything exactly the same and Stalin died of natural causes
What's the timeline with the USSR and Japans southward expansion? Would it have been possible to convince the Japanese to block the pacific coast to the ussr or was it too late for them to change course? More generally, were they mostly autonomous in their war efforts or was there regular coordination? Big talks before the pacific war? One advantage to going south I see for the axis as a whole is in regards to accessible oil which the Nazis needed but even then they seem to distant from them to properly transport.
Maintain ties with neutral powers, and avoid antagonizing the U.S. early.
>>18023989Japan already had its hands full with dutch,english,french, and US in asia, their hands were full and had no desire to aggravate the ussr and another enemy to the region.> More generally, were they mostly autonomous in their war efforts or was there regular coordination?Autonomous. There was no actual coordination, they had talks but that was it.
Let your generals do elastic defense tactics, ffs
>>18022313Finland capitulated retard, Soviets just agreed to not rape it too hard because they got more than they wanted
>>18022279Why did none tell me Hitler was 12 feet tall?
>>18022279Unironically allying with Italy and Japan were crucial in the German defeat. The allies invading neutral Italy just to get to Germany (who in this theoretical timeline were not allied with the Pearl Harbor bombers) would present a massive issue in keeping up the pretense of moral capital.Secondary to that would be postponing the invasion of Russia and playing extreme defense on that front. Conquering Russia is impossible. Crippling the USSR MAY have been possible, but not in such a timeframe.Technically the ultimate hindsight strat would be to finish the nuclear bomb before starting a world war.
>>18022279>>18022283>>18022288There was a narrow window for victory against USSR, I would say about 5%. The Nazis had a 3:1 K:D ration... they needed closer to 5:1 to close the numbers, needed to be more brutal to the soviet partisans, and atrophy the Soviet army into being too scared to take up arms against a Nazi Juggernaut
>>18022301The USSR had just finished "invading" Finland (with catastrophic losses) Hitler calculated a preemptive strike before they got Lend-Lease drops, which they started getting soon after Barbarossa started. He knew they were likely to plan a pincer move with their Western counterparts so he thought to do what Germany did in WWI, wrap up the Eastern front before focusing on facing the inevitable Western onslaughtIt was a desperate move from the start, and the High Command knew it. 80% of their logistics was horse drawn, not conducive to prolonged warfare. They were hoping for a quick KO because it was absolutely necessary.
Just DONT ally with Italy or Japan (Romania is still cool)The allies couldn't have gone through neutral Italy to invade, and the Japanese wouldn't have dragged you into war with USA
U boats, kill the entire british fleet before americans join
>>18023908China. Isreal. Vietnam. Iran. Venezuela. Russia.
>>18022288noabsolute poop-tier answerRussia would have invaded Germany if Germany hadn't attacked pre-emptively. Any scenario where Germany doesn't launch Barbarossa turns out worse for Hitler.Correct answer: building 200-300 u-boats prewar, knocking Britain out, and hoping the lack of lend lease is enough to stuff the Russains
>>18022279Don't invade Poland. That's it. If the soviets still invade, you can join the UK and France as defenders of Europe and do everything you wanted while being heroes for it. If they don't invade you already got a bunch of free territory and can just focus on your economy, industry, and relations with other Western powers while communism inevitably destroys the Russians for you.Also tell Japan to chill for the same reason. You've already got Korea and a chunk of China. Be happy with that instead of antagonizing the UK, France, and the US. And if they don't listen, hang them out to dry.
>>18022279Tactically:They could have stopped delaying the production of Panthers and Assault rifles.They had the technology but they didnt know how to use it and it was directly a result of Hitler's personal distaste for the assault rifle that caused them to delay development and mass production.They had a high quality mass producable assault rifle by 1942 but Hitler preferred they use Submachine guns and traditional battle-rifles.Strategically, deploy Sarin in a first strike.Sarin was deadlier than Atomic weaponry until the mid 50s and the US, an atomic power, upon discovering Sarin began producing Sarin at a higher rate than they produced atomic weapons.Germany had large stockpiles of Sarin by 1938.>Britian would gas them backBritain's most advanced chemical was Anthrax which is nowhere near as deadly as Sarin.Sarin couldnt be filtered out of the air until the 50s. Anthrax could be filtered as soon as it was developed.The Germans could survive a WMD exchange with every major power. They consciously chose not to use Sarin despite being able to survive and win a mass exchange of WMDs.>how would they deliver itshell cannisters which can be fired from Uboats or from bombs dropped by any type of aircraft.
>>18022310Germany did have an agreement with Poland to move jews into Poland and the Poles moved them back into Germany almost immediately. it became a contention in 1938.It wasnt expansionist. Germany did not want part of their country isolated from the rest by other countries.Do you think America would have acted differently? They had two large independent states within their country which they quickly dismantled and destroyed through conquest without any kind of attempt at diplomacy.
>>18022324the 80,000 French troops who had crossed the German border into Saarland.
>>18022377>>18022345>>18022351Germany suffered 2m uniformed Soldier deaths on the Eastern Front. Russia alone suffered more than 2x that and the USSR as a whole suffered roughly 15x that.Look at the actual combat deaths, not surrenders, not wounded, deaths from combat.Germany's population only went down by about 4m people throughout the entire war from combat deaths.The USSR went down by 15-20m people from combat deaths.This number does not include ununiformed combatants (partisans).
>>18022363really? where do they say that?>>18022371>Prussia still exists>The USSR does notsounds like cope from the loser race.>muh map lines55m of your bloodlines were culled from existence.less than 5m German bloodlines were lost.>but muh map colorspolitical copes.how many Slavniks are dying for the next Nat Geo edition of World Atlas can be a collective 2,000km of Green vs Blue?Slavs are dumb chimp people with cute women and high rates of HIV.Sorry if you were born an east slav.
>>18022455>>18022574>Germans say they will fight harder in factories and battlefields>ZOG considers this an excuse to attack women and childrenwhy are they like this?Why are Angolems and slavs so weak? Why couldnt they defeat Germany on the battlefield?
>>18025068Prussia no longer exists. Germany is getting replaced by mystery meat balkanoids and muslims. Slavs won and krautniggers lost.
>>18025072Brandenberg is still the seat of German power lol.Germany has to be held back from going full 1488 while Slavs, with high rate of HIV and the highest population of Muslims of in Europe, are trying to liberalize.in 50 years you will think WWI never even occurred, Germans will be ascendant (more than they already are), France will be a peer-rival, and Slavs will be under the boot of feudal lords, where they belong.Slavs are too weak and stupid for the modern world.
>>18025076I otherwise agree; however, if history is anything to go by, the French elite will collaborate with Slavs if it means destroying Germany.Right now it's fortunate France is at odds with Russia over spheres of influence in Africa, but that could change
>>18022290Could've they united asia against russia ?
>>18022294>>18025004Lol at those shitlerite poltard cope fantasiesStalin was never going to invade Germany, he was a chickenshit in foreign policy
>>18025046I dunno. Alaska is doing fine not being attached to the mainland. And America never invaded Canada over British Columbia.
>>18022294Russia always fucking sucked at offensive wars, as proved by the whole Finland fiasco. Stalin itself was cautious to the point of being almost a coward Ignoring Russia and pushing all efforts to pacify the whole Western Continental Europe and eventually convince the UK for at least a truce was better.
>>18025343The United States invaded Canada to secure a Green-water route to Alaska and then imposed upon Canada to get special rights for the Alaskan highway.so I dunno bro it seems like America drew faster and shot first when put in the same situation.
>>18022279Nobody here can set fantasy aside.
>>18022310Poland my ass. He was dead set on Ukraine from the start. The Nazis were pretty much doing the grandest larp in world history and the larp got out of control and couldn't be stopped.
Dont split army group south in fuhrer directive 45 during case blue or take egypt in 1940 by instantly taking malta and sending tank divisions in north africa
>>18025482Which century did this happen? Before the 20th century when this was acceptable in the world or during the 20th century when these types of actions are frowned upon?
>>18025177Stalin would've invaded Germany by using the same excuses that Putin used for attacking NATO he'd pretend to care about ethnic minorities who're threatened by right-wing regimes he even framed Hitler for the entire Holocaust which actually was a continuation of the Holodomor which is getting repeated in the 2020s
>>18022279Not attack Soviet Union, fortify the land it already held, build up it air force and keep developing new fighters and bombers to defend its airspace and if necessary start attckining England again. And, keep building its Navy - subs and battleships. Place defense instead of destroying its army and expending it resources inside Soviet Union. Germany would need its air force to defend against US bombers trying to come in with a nuclear weapon
