Why is Frederick the Great put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and Napoleon? He was a retarded flaming gay guy who almost managed to get Prussia partitioned like Poland but had an amazing 1 in a million stroke of luck because the tsarina died and then a Prussian shill became the tsar who decided to throw away all Russia's gains to switch sides and give Prussia back everything in one of the dumbest events in the entirety of European history. He was mentally unstable and would constantly threaten suicide, and repeatedly gambled his entire army in super risky battles and maneuvers.
>>18024475He got the Germans to eat potatoes
>>18024475>Why is Frederick the Great put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and Napoleon? Nobody had stakes as high as him. As an example for comparison, Gustavus always made sure that Sweden was looked after in the meantime and he built a very strong state with a long-term vision in mind. This is why even after he died in Germany after fighting just three battles, which were one grand victory, one bad defeat, and one pyrrhic victory respectively, Sweden was able to continue the war without him, holding on until France turned the tide. On the other side, I don't see Prussia holding itself together if Frederick dies at Kunersdorf or Prague. Also Prussia was a glorified backwater back in the 7 years war, and the fact it lasted for a decade straight is incredibly impressive. Sure, it had a North Korea style oversized army, but it wasn't special. Just look at how Napoleon demolished Prussia even worse than Austria or Russia, when Prussia didn't have a good leader and didn't take advantage of terrain or fought aggressively, and he was also tactically good using oblique order & the grand battery
>>18024490Frederick was tactically good*Knew how to command
>>18024490Blucher was one hell of a dumbass tbf. His only redeeming quality was his ability to smash his head into a brick wall full force and get back up to do it again and again.
>>18024475>Why is Frederick the Great put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and Napoleon?Nobody is doing it. >had an amazing 1 in a million stroke of luckThis is true but the others were also very lucky (at least Napo) , even if not on the same level,
Poolack thread
>>18024475He often took to the field of battle personally (Zorndorf, Kundersdorf, Soors, Leuthen, Torgau) so he was certainly brave. And he often won against numerically superior foes - also because he had very competent generals in his service like Anhalt-Dessau and Seydlitz. And most importantly: he left the Kingdom of Prussia a stronger state than when he inherited it.>>18024490> On the other side, I don't see Prussia holding itself together if Frederick dies at Kunersdorf or Prague.I disagree. The prussian state was robust as a great deal of statecraft was invested into it by its rulers since the 17th century. At worst the Kingdom of Prussia would be reduced again to the March of Brandenburg. >>18024525This as well. Imagine not having Lady Luck on your side.
>>18024475Because Napoleon himself considered him as such.
>>18024475>put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and NapoleonCan you give an example of someone who dies this and who diesnt throw in a bunch of other not-that-greats with him or are you just treating your own delusions and obsessions as a matter of fact and biewing one annoying prussia fan you encountered on paradox plaxa as a representation of people in general?
>>18024719>He often took to the field of battle personallyHonestly isn't THIS why he'd be compared to Alexander, Caesar, and Napoleon? He was a king leading his own men, the height of bravery and chivalry, like the great lords of old. Nappy is specifically admired in part because he too took to the battlefield personally. And this was basically the last era in history when you could do that, before wars became matters of machines and logistics.
>>18024518>His only redeeming quality was his ability to smash his head into a brick wall full force and get back up to do it again and again.Arguably the most important quality for a cavalry commander.
>>18024518Lol
>>18024475>Why is Frederick the Great put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and NapoleonHe's not. Only germutts and amerimutts think that, one because of national mythology wewuzing, other because they are just unimaginably retarded
>>18024475he lived in era when it was meta to name your monarchs great as a means of being a bootlicker living in their court for freeevery time you call voltaire based for shittalking HRE or whatever remember he was basically one of OG paid shills
>>18024475fake internet glaze brigade
>>18024475Friederich did what little ever did. He is remembered by his contrubution to politics, literature, philosophy and military.Therefor, he may not conquered as many land as Alexander or Caesar and so on, however he managed to reinvent a strategy called "uneven formation" or something.
>>18025100Why are Poolacks obsessed with AmericansMost Americans don't know who Friedrich II was
>>18024475it's not like the title Great puts them in a unobtainable position compared to other historical figures. Lots of historical figures has the title of Great because of different reasons, like Peter the Great and Catherine the Great. There has been some debates around why we should give Napoleon the title Great when he probably deserves it more than some. Figures like Frederick or Peter were given the title by their own courts and descendants, while figures like Alexander or Charlemagne were given that title by history
>>18025169You mean the oblique order. It's also not that Friedrich reinvented it (it was a standard tactic ever since it had been created), he just used it a few times in decisiv battles.
>>18024475>He was a retarded flaming gay guythis is slander by Voltaire my man
>>18025322Voltaire was his friend and lived with him before they hated each other. He knew he was gay.
>>18025571>before they hated each otherhmm really makes me think
>>18024785>>18025575Frederick wasn't gay and neither was Alexander both men were the most successful leaders in the history of their respective nations. Bismarck was also great but his victories against France and the remnants of the HRE were overshadowed by Frederick's total domination when he stood against Austria-Hungary that still was a regional superpower in the 18th century
>>18025571>Voltaire was his friend and lived with him before they hated each other
>>18025610Why would they change Voldemort's gender? Is it because they wanted to prove that Dumbledore wasn't a pedophile because he was gay? Maybe Harry Potter did indeed deserve to die after all
Prussia was a small state. Frederick never built an empire on the level of Napoleon. He preserved Prussia’s existence, yes, but he didn’t remake the world.
>>18025648No Frederick did the exact same thing as Alexander from the 4th century BC he turned a nation as small as Greece into an empire that was equal to Persia and it lasted for a couple centuries until being overtaken by the Roman Empire and it's modern counterpart which is the United States that's the reason why Jews hate both of these great white Germanic leaders by slandering them as gay Yugoslavians
>>18024719>He often took to the field of battle personally (Zorndorf, Kundersdorf, Soors, Leuthen, Torgau) so he was certainly brave.Frederick didn't win every battle, but the man had great ideas. After the Battle of Mollwitz he, Seydlitz, and Ziethen were instrumental in reforming the Prussian cavalry. On top of this, he helped Seydlitz with the creation of the "cavalry column," a formation that was regarded as a Prussian state secret. It saved Frederick at Zorndorf and likely contributed to many other victories/saviors. Frederick was also the first to formalized "horse artillery," this concept took dominance over Europe decades later. It's the reason how Napoleon was able to move artillery so quickly from supporting his fronts into a single massed battery for key pushes.
>>18024785> And this was basically the last era in history when you could do that, before wars became matters of machines and logistics.Shit, I guess you're right. No wonder the 20th century feels so bland at times. If you had to think of the closest figure 20th equivalent to Napoleon, Frederick, Alexander, Hannibal, etc... who would it be?
>>18025828>Frederick didn't win every battleI mean, few people did. I don't think that never loosing is a good metric for any type of commander. Rather it would be the ability to come back, regroup and secure victory at another time. >On top of this, he helped Seydlitz with the creation of the "cavalry column," a formation that was regarded as a Prussian state secret.Tell me more about this cavalry column please. A Google search doesn't yield any information. >It saved Frederick at ZorndorfWasn't that mainly due to Seydlitz keeping a cool head and wainting for the perfect opportunity to strike? Frederick gave him frequent orders to attack but Seydlitz ignore those; waiting for the right moment. >>18025941>No wonder the 20th century feels so bland at times.Does it? Personally I can appreciate things from most time periods. And the 20th century was littered with devasting and brutal conflicts all around the world (WW1 & WW2 + various internal revolts and civil wars, colonial wars and the imediate post colonial conflicts, cold war proxy wars, forever wars in the middle east).
>>18025941Hitler was a downgrade of Frederick unlike Bismarck just like Napoleon III was a downgrade of Louis XIV unlike the original Napoleon I'm not one of the guys that would've demonised Hitler or blame him for the Holocaust but I'd rather vote Frederick over Nazis at any day of the year and Hitler himself would probably agree if he saw the world as a ghost ever since he killed himself like Epstein
>>18025962https://warhistory.org/de/%40msw/article/hohenfriedeberg-bayreuth-dragoons
>>18025624well jk rowling is a well known transphobe
>>18026592According to some Osprey books, cavalry charges in column were already the norm by the time of the 30 years war.But what apparently sets the prussian system apart, as far as I can tell, was that the heavy cavalry element (here dragoons) were supported by a light cavalry element (here hussars), whose duties were to protect the main charging column and to further outflank the foes once a breakthrough had been achieved. Something similar was also already being practiced by the time of the 30 Years War where cuirassiers were to be supported by harquebusiers, which were to act as a very mobile shot contingent to support the cuirassiers. But from what I've gathered this was far from the norm and often harquebusiers would ditch the battlefield in favor of plundering the enemies baggage train. So the real difference is apparently that Fredricks men actually kept to a battle plan and didn't fuck off to do as they pleased.
>>18026960In other words, actually getting his cavalry to do what they're bloody well told to do, a constant ball ache through history. When it comes to that arm, all the brains and common sense are in the bottom half of the partnership.
>Don't you know your history? You will find there glorious heroes, responding both actively and passively to their lithe and obliging friends. That was what Socrates got from Alcibiades who, by my faith, was not a gloomy Greek; and just the same were Euryalus and Nisus. How many more could I name? A great number, Julius Caesar, about whom obscene tongues told he was the husband of all the Roman women, when he was the wife of all the husbands. But just leaf through Suetonius and see how he deals with the Caesars. They are all included on this list; they all served the good god of Lampsacus. And if profane examples aren't enough for you, then let us shift our attack to the sacred: this good Jesus, how do you think he got John to sleep in his bed? Don't you see he was his Ganymede?Frederick the Great, Palladium (1748)What did he mean by this?
>>18027057So have you read the work? Palladium is a burlesque which Frederick wrote because he was a francoboo.
>>18026960theyv got prprl pistls, prprl pistls theyv got
>>18024475I mean everyone you named had huge moments that you could call miracles. In Egypt Caesar was literally floating in the bay at one point just waiting to die. Alexander could have been stabbed a dozen times on his charges, Nappy, Well nobody in history ever faced a greater parade of drooling idiots. We remember Fredericks because of how large historically the event that lead the miracle was with the Tsarina dying. But how is Caesar not drowning less important than that.
>>18025258The only one obsessed here is you, germutt
>>18027046I mean, Fredrick was saved at Zorndorf because his cavalry under Seydlitz didn't do as they were told to by their king. But that's more so a case of one commander having a better view of the situation (Seydlitz outflanking the russians) than another (Frederick being preassured hard by the russians).And ultimately this act of "disobedience" still served into the fulfilment of the all encompassing goal of defeating the enemies army. The real kicker was that the cavalrymen weren't (largely) in it anymore to amass personal glory or plunder and thus served better as an integrated arm of an army.
>>18027086Indeed.
>>18025606Hitler was a loserhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5EuQ2oczY
>>18027348Imagine having to get a new pipe after every charge
>>18027372Those white clay pipes were very cheap. In some places you could buy one prestuffed with tobacco, which were discarded after being smoked.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L2IaIf8qw4
Bump, this thread was really comfy.>Auf, Anbach Dragoner!>Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-_c6V0U-4kFrederick literally inspired Starship Troopers>Bastards, do you want to live forever?>>18027046It was a perfect balance between bravery & acknowledgement of mortality. You have elite units like Waffen SS that throw away their lives for the mission ending up incurring losses too heavy to sustain, and at worst it's just retards getting themselves killed with nothing to show for.An acknowledgement of mortality is a better idea. If you can instill in them a need to fight despite their mortality they won't take any unnecessary losses.
>>18028851>It was a perfect balance between bravery & acknowledgement of mortality.That's one the reason why some military units adopted the death's head as their insignia.But what the other Anon and I were talking about was the fact that cavalry often was undisciplined and avoided confrontations for easier pray.
