Why did Poland completely fail to modernize and develop no middle class or any high culture, even as the rest of Europe was moving on around them? They went from superpower status with strong potential to the backwards punching bag of Germany, Sweden, and Russia. There was no Polish middle class, half of Polish cities were just Germans and Jews and the other half were their Polish serf tax cattle. Seems like a colossal failure of the nobility and leadership that let this obviously horrible state of affairs keep going until they got partitioned. Really wasted potential.
Like, after their entire country got plundered by the Swedish army, you'd think Poles would realize they needed to modernize and change rapidly if they wanted any hope of surviving the future. But it just never happened, they never learned their lesson at all.
>>18027794Widespread country that made its income from taxation and rural agriculture, not great for centralization or industry aside from key trading cities (ex: Krakow). Big diversity of peoples (culture, religion and language), not a strength. Strong and populated nobility (10% of population, compared to 2% of Germans) had a deathgrip on power, especially when monarchs were elected by the Sejm. Without a strong king to balance the aristocrats, the serfs had no counterweight to challenge the nobility.Without centralization, Poland's cavalry army lost the ability to match the large armies of firearm-wielding soldiers. Plus, bad terrain for defensive purposes and bad diplomacy (sabotaged by abuse and bribery related to the Sejm's golden veto)
>>18027794Polish nobles were reluctant to engage in trade or invest in industrial development, making their economy dependent on grain exports.The Polish king was similarly reluctant, but even when a reforming king emerged, he had too little power to truly reform the entire country.
>>18027864Plus, the king would be elected so he was often a foreigner with limited influence + in order to get elected they made concessions to the nobles
>>18027794You should play Poland in EU4 and do it better.
>>18027794When will niggers stop treating reality like paraslop game? What does 'modernising' even mean in this case? A more infantry heavy army? Anyway, PLC had the largest noble class by far especially the petty lower nobility, this was great for war until they went bankrupt.This is your threadly reminder to stop posting and use an archive instead since 100% of questions asked on /his/ have been answered multiple times.
>>18027794>They went from superpower statusPooland was literally never superpower status
>>18027794Country was ruled by middle class in its golden age, what are you on about. They literally were the main core of the army that was expected to defend the country from invaders.The reason why it shifted from having politics dominated by middle class to oligarchy was because of devastating wars in 17 century that made bunch of aristocratic clans magnates consolidate wealth which put the country one foot in grave as they were equivalent of corporations that refused to tax themselves.
>>18028032So what exactly is the nuance behind Poles charging a tank with horsemen in the invasion of poland?
>>18028354>This meme in current year
>>18028492https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Schoenfeld
>>18027794>They went from superpower statusYou have really low standards for what qualifies as a superpower
>>18028503Where are the tanks
>>18028503>>18028671https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty>The Polish cavalry charge stopped the German pursuit for the day, and the units of Czersk Operational Group were able to withdraw southwards unopposed. Also, it took the Germans several hours to reorganise and continue the advance. On September 2, 1939, the 18th Pomeranian Uhlans Regiment was decorated by Gen. Grzmot-Skotnicki, the commander of the Operational Group, with his own Virtuti Militari medal for valour shown in this combat.>The same day, German war correspondents were brought to the battlefield, together with two journalists from Italy. They were shown the corpses of Polish cavalrymen and their horses, as well as German tanks that had arrived at the place after the battle. One of the Italian correspondents, Indro Montanelli, sent home an article, in which he described the bravery and heroism of Polish soldiers, who charged German tanks with sabres and lances. Although such a charge did not happen and there were no tanks used during the combat, the myth was used by German propaganda during the war. German propaganda magazine Die Wehrmacht reported on 13 September that the Poles had gravely underestimated German weapons, as Polish propaganda had suggested that German armored vehicles were only covered with sheet metal, leading to a grotesque attack. After the end of World War II, it was still used by Soviet propaganda as an example of stupidity of pre-war Polish commanders, who allegedly did not prepare their country for the war and instead wasted the blood of their soldiers. As late as the 1990s, this myth was still taught in history classes in American high schools and colleges.
>>18028701The Polish dragoons had a really cool anti-tank rifle concept. Unlike other AT rifles that fired large cartridges against tank hulls & vulnerable spots, their rifle shot a super high velocity that would pierce through and hurt the crew.
>>18027794>poland completely fail to modernize and develop no middle class or any high culturehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia
>>18027794Liberum veto.Literally the most retarded idea to exist ever because all it took was one guy to get paid off by whichever adversary and all decisions came to a halt.
>>18027812The best answer, which will be ignored by the braindead Larpers which constitute this board.
>>18027794Deterioration of middle class - tale as old as time.
>>18027812Veto wasn't really that big of a problem. In normal situations if one dude shouted veto he would be intimidated or beaten to stop and the sejm would continue its course. When it did work was when a plurality shouted veto. So let's say instead of one guy you have 20 and they sit close to each other.It was only during the later part of August the 2nd and whole reign of his successor that the veto could be said to be abused, but it was not without a reason, 40 to 50 percent of the nobility fought in two separate civil wars to dethrone the saxons. There was similarly heated atmosphere after the election of Henry de Valois 200 years prior, where the other faction supported a habsburg prince, but that was resolved by putting a monarch unrelated to both the French and the Austrians once the opportunity(in form of Henry's abdication) came around. Here they were stuck with two guys they hated so there was always a plurality to break the sejm.The diplomacy was ineffective because it had to be piped through the sejm. The country had no embassies(in modern political sciences jargon it would be considered to he executive power outreach), it just sent envoys to other countries here and there, while everyone else had diplomats living in foreign states and among others use that fact to gain intelligence and so forth.A lot of these kinds of takes are an artifact of historiography and not history itself. A bunch of historians in Krakow during the 19th century wrote long books that blamed all on veto and decentralisation and so it remained for the rest of times. I personally blame the pacifism of the nobility for that. Most of the wars the country has fought were defensive for that reason and given the geopolitical situation they had to make sure there's at least one big neighbour that's in shambles constantly or that submits to their supremacy.
>>18027794Poland was a country run by libertine retard aristocrats in a time when it should have been run by a no nonsense absolute monarchist.
>mfw realizing the currently occupied territory in Ukraine more or less matches 1:1 with the old borders of Poland-Lithuania
>>18028503>Units involved>2nd Infantry Division>1st "Warsaw" Independent Cavalry Brigade>163rd Infantry Division>Casualties and losses>Polish forces: 147 killed>German forces: c. 500 killed?????????
>>18027794>Swedes burn down your entire country>40% of population dies>Fast Forward>Prussia, Austria, and Russia all simultaneously rape you and partition your lands, proceed to do this two more times. >All power and capital either constantly fought over, seized and/or destroyed, or is used to benefit the conquering empire of whatever specific region of Poland they happen to control>All attempts at statehood brutally crushed Gee, I wonder. Anyways, they did have a middle class and high culture as well as a massive nobility. The Polish are responsible for the development of many cities in the region, even outside of modern-day Poland, and if it wasn’t for their investment in the arts, sciences, institutions in general, many cities would not exist today at least as we know them, they’d be completely unrecognizable. Austrians, Soviets, and then Ukrainains can all thank Boland for Lwow. Oh also Vilnius is Polish. Nuke Lithuania.
>>18029444Austrian betrayal of Poland was one the most disgusting betrayals in history.
>>18029468Trve…
>>18029468qrd?
>>18029616Not the guy you replied to, but I am the one he was replying to>Austria faced with major threat of Ottoman Empire at its borders, which, at the time, were much closer to the capital of Vienna.>This is the absolute height of Ottoman Power, look up a map of the Ottoman Empire in 1683 when this happened, versus 1910, or the 1300s. >Ottomans siege Vienna, now I am not implying they could have easily taken Vienna and marched on Western Europe without Polish help, but the Polish DID help the Austrians in a significant way by sending elite cavalry. >Just a few decades before Poland dedicated this force to help Austria, the Swedes inavded and carried out an atrocity known as the “deluge” in which they burned the whole country down and this resulted in 40% of the Polish population dying, Russia flips on Poland and occupies half the former lands of their empire, but Poland helps Austria despite struggling to recover from this devastation >Fast forwardAustria collaborates with Prussia and Russia to partition Poland, carving off massive chunks of territory.>Proceed to do this two more times>For more info on how this went for Poland consult my previous greentext
>>18029629>>18029468Austria didn't wanted partitions of Poland to happen and they didn't see it as a positive thing, they were pretty much forced to join them by Prussia and Russia to become their co accomplice or miss out on free territory. It was either that, or Prussia/Russia take even more land
>>18029220>a no nonsense absolute monarchist.gayest shit i've read all weekyeah i bet you'd like a strong daddy you flaming homosexual
>>18029783Maybe I would you fucking queer. You making an offer?
High culture flourished unevenly, mostly in ecclesiastical settings, not broadly across society.
>>18027794It's literally just a buffer zone between the West and Muscovy. That's what it is today and that's what it's always been
>>18027794commonwealth is interesting phenomenait is what happen when people successfully fight against rise of tyranny in their countrynobles(but that also include petty nobility or even landless nobility) successfully prevent the rise of power of the kings and all that come with it>no taxes>no draft>no kings men forcing you do shitit was doing pretty well until it fell under heavy centralized and militarized states that firstly crushed their own citizens and make them subjects
>>18027794It's filled with Poles. Are you expecting it to be a utopia? Sorry real life doesn't imitate pan-Europeanist delusion
>>18027794Unironically same reason the USA is stagnating right now, the nobility value their own privileges and rights more than their duties to the nation.
>>18027794Why are there always five threads about Poland? Imagine if we wasted this much time talking about Sri Lanka or something
>>18031725There is no nobility in America, there is only the mamagerial class
>>18031711>>no kings men forcing you do shit>He doesn't know about the brutality and restrictions placed upon serfsBit by bit, serfs were restricted and couldn't leave their manoral farms/towns. Cities were banned from accepting them, runaway serfs could be hunted down, and 1 day of week was considered unpaid labour for their lord.Monarchs often cooperated with plebs/peasants vs the middle class of nobility. It's a common theme throughout history (ex: Julius vs Optimates)
>>18031780yes, that is why nobles make cities weakit make senseno merchants so king can only rely on nobles
>>18031699No it wasnt and its not you retard.
>>18031699Muscovy was a regional power for a long time. Sweden nearly eclisped them and was this close to being the hegemon of the region
>>18027794>almost IntermariumVGH Polskabros
>>18027806Density is the reason. It's always density.
