They were never actually going to be able to win, were they? At the very least, it seems to me that they made a series of very dumb decisions relatively early in the war that basically precluded any kind of victory for them. Invading the Soviet Union when they did feels like a massive unforced error, as was declaring war on the United States for seemingly no good reason the day after Pearl Harbor.
>>18030711They declared war on the U.S. in the hopes that Japan would be grateful enough to join the war against the USSR later.
>>18030711No. They could have won in a few ways. The best way would have been a first strike using sarin.
>>18030711No, Hitler essentially began believing his own propaganda and mythos about himself and it all went downhill from there.
>>18030729>first strike using Sarin>all subsequent Allied bombing raids on Germany include chemical weapons loads as wellSounds an ideal way to get Germany slimed
>>18030711They could have very easily won. Number mean very little when you are fighting white people.
>>18030711The war with America was officialized after half a year of naval combat between the two countries
>>18030746You mean a year of Americans defending their own ships from Germany U-boat attacks.
>>18030746Describe this "naval combat"
>>18030735the Soviet Union was mostly white though
>>18030729>Be Nazi Germany, the devil incarnate of earth>Discover one of the most potent chemical weapons that when paired with planes allows them to bring total death to a city of their choice using surprise with their first attack>Prepare shells of it.>Don't use it, in fact, never use it even at the bitter end of ww2, vs the communists, one of their most despised enemies who heavily depended on a single centre (moscow). Despite this having mortal consequences to you.5 years later...>Be United States, enter war with zero risk of domestic enslaught/havoc due to geographical distance basically guaranteeing defence of continental states>Find Nukes, put in the same position as Nazi Germany at the start of the war.>Use it immediately upon it's completion, on two very populated cities as the first test site, in a region also irrelevant to Europe's defences and proudly defend it as completely neccessary to this day>Go on to bemoan about muh holocaust and muh war crimes, any time someone talks about anything in relation to germany in the 20th century, or any other contentious regime worldwide. Even dubbing the term "nuclear holocaust" and several other "holocausts".Really makes you think.
>>18030729Sarina was only produced late in the war and in extremely little quantities.You'd be better off arguing for Tabun, but that also came relatively late however in much greater quantities.
>>18030800>be Nazi Germany>unable to defeat the Allied air armadas>unable to stop them carpet bombing your cities after they have achieved total air supremacy>don't want to set the precedent for using chemical weapons>know that genie can't be put back in the bottle
>>18030753America was supplying all Germanys enemies with lend lease. This could very well be why Pearl Harbor happened and Germany declared war so quickly, it wasn't long after lend-lease started.>>18030711The U.S.S.R. was continously expanding its territory and consolidating its power. Germany probably correctly assumed conlict was inevitable and invaded for that reason. There are other factors at play in the invasion, like Germanys economy requiring a total victory once it had started warring, thier need for eastern resources. And did Stalins purge of German and white officers happen before or after barbarossa?
>>18030806Germany does deserve recognition for not using gas even in 1945 when they were desperatefor wunderwaffen, even the nuclear program. The British were literally making emergency plans to anthrax central Europe if they ever were losing the war.
>>18030734So? Sarin was a WMD deadlier than the atomic bombs. There wouldn’t be any allied retaliation.>>18030805They had storehouses full of sarin in 1938. They could have used it but they chose not to.Too naive.
>>18030812The British who didn't used gas even in 1940 when they were desperate for any weapons at all after Dunkirk?
>>18030808>America was supplying all Germanys enemies with lend leaseYou mean they were trading with Germanys enemies? Britain didn't get any of that stuff for free you know, they were still paying it off until 2012 or something Why should Germany be able to control who America gets to trade with?
>>18030806>the Allies would retaliateLOLThe Allies wouldn’t survive a first strike of sarin also the Allies possessed ZERO chemical WMDs.Sarin was classified as a WMD and was deadlier than Atomic weapons until the mid 50s.The US even began to produce more Sarin than Atomic material because it was more effective in 1945-1955 than Atomic weapons.Cope all you want. The Germans could have won easily with Sarin but they were too moral to do what was necessary.
>>18030818>sarin is magic gas that spreads everywhere instantly Ok kiddo.
>>18030820The British didn’t have Sarin. They had mustard and anthrax, both required large quantities and could be filtered out.Sarin had no filtration method whatsoever until 1960 and no reliable filtration until 1980. It still today remains a WMD while the gas the British would have used never was considered a WMD.The type of anthrax classified as a WMD wouldn’t even be developed until long after the war.>NOOO THE ALLIES HAD IT ALL UNDER CONTROLNo, they didn’t, they were inferior to Germany and they took advantage of Germany’s superior moral position.>NOOOO THE HECKIN NAZIS COULDNT HAVE WONCope more. They could have but were literally too good to win.
>>18030827Yes that is what it was developed for. To have extremely small amounts aerosolized for large coverage.You didn’t even know sarin existed and you’re coping because you don’t want to admit the Nazis could have won because in your mind that would legitimize them or something.
>>18030833>>18030839T. 14 year old who read the wiki article on Sarin last week and now convinced himself he an expert on it and that it was the magic wonder weapon that would instantly kill all the Allies everywhere in the world>they were inferior to Germany>won
>>18030847>tranny doesn’t understand what Sarin is>gets mad when it’s pointed out Sarin is a WMD with a huge kill radius>resorts to strawman and projectionThey were inferior to Germany, that is why they won, they were willing to break with European codes of ethical warfare more often and earlier than the Germans.Which robbed Germany of an otherwise decisive advantage.Why are you against the possibility of a German victory? Do you have something against Germans?
>>18030833>Sarin had no filtration methodThis is untrue - the German factory which produced Sarin had its employees wear traditional gas masks and these protected said employees. The problem with sarin is that it can harm a person just through skin contact, but the same is true with Anthrax. However this ignores the British plan of how they would infect Germany with anthrax, which focuses on destroying German livestock. Some of this would have infected the population, but the primary aim was to starve Germany. Furthermore the Germans never produced that much sarin gas, it's believed they only ever had at most 10 tons of the stuff (and that's the high estimate, it was likely less). Compare this to ww1, wherein Germany alone produced 70,000 tons of mustard gas alone. A single mustard gas shell could contain up to half a ton of gas, meaning that Germany would have only been able to use 20 sarin bombs at most. Germany was building a larger factory to mass produced it, but this was not completed before the end of the war.
>>18030824If it wasn't a big deal then why didnt the U.S. loan to Germany as well?
>>18030876>kiddo learned about "WMD" at the same timeYou'll look back on these posts and cringe one day.
>>18030753>>18030762>What was Roosevelt's shoot-on-sight policyNot my job to spoonfeed. You can learn this from a google search
>>18030711There was already an undeclared naval war with America, and there was going to be a war with the USSR eventually. It was only a question of when that war began and who struck first
>>18030905America traded with Germany prior to 1941 as well, and it's well known how Ford produced German military equipment.
>>18030753Why were militarized American vessels sailing through warzones and firing on German vessels to defend arms they were selling to the British?I thought Roosevelt wanted peace?>>18030762Naval combat is a self explanatory description
>>18030753Isn't it funny how no matter where war breaks out in the world, America is always part of it and always on the 'defensive'?It's an odd trend I've noticed throughout history
>>18030930You're retarded or deciebtfull if you don't acknowledge that American supply was one of the key factors in the allies winning WW2. Don't ask questions you don't want a real answer to.
>>18030936>Why were militarized American vessels sailing through warzones and firing on German vesselsBecause these seas were an active warzone and those German vessels were attacking American ships. I don't understand why this is complicated, maybe you're just stupid. >Roosevelt wanted peace?Wanting peace doesn't mean you can't defend yourself
>>18030945Yeah the shoot-on-sight policy means you really want hecking peaceAnyway why would Roosevelt being a pacifist be a good thing? Isn't he celebrated exactly because he went to war against the Axis, the most evil military alliance in history?
>>18030943Not in 1940 or 41For example, the planes traded to Britain by America in these years were considered out of date by the RAF and we're only every used for training.Also you're the only one between us who's asked any questions
>>18030950>Yeah the shoot-on-sight policy means you really want hecking peaceBy the time a ship's been torpedoed it's already too late, and there wasn't any other reason for U-boats to chase American ships. >Anyway why would Roosevelt being a pacifist be a good thing? Isn't he celebrated exactly because he went to war against the Axis, the most evil military alliance in history?That's entirely irrelevant to this conversation
>>18030958It's not irrelevant to the conversation. Either Roosevelt didn't want war, in which case he was effectively an appeaser and should be remembered no better than Chamberlain.Or he did want war, which would perfectly explain all of the actions he took.
>>18030950>shooting submarines on sight means you don't want peace>sending submarines into other countries waters to shoot at their ships means you do want peace
>>18030962>other countries watersSo the entire Atlantic Ocean belongs to America now?
>>18030962The policy was to shoot at German or Italian ships, not just submarines. If you enter a warzone and start shooting at enemy ships then you're effectively in the warAgain, why is that a bad thing? Is Roosevelt not celebrated for bringing America into the war and defeating the most evil military alliance ever?
>>18030965Yes. Deal with it.>>18030969Why should Italian and German ships go anywhere near America?
>>18030972America came to them, which it has a tendency to do
>>18030960This is a different question to the one you asked previously. You asked if Roosevelt being a pacifist was a good thing. Now you ask whether or not he was a pacifist. I'll give you a pass because maybe you're an ESL and don't understand the difference, but they are two different questions entirely.
>>18030976Deal with it.
>>18030985No, I asked why would he being a pacifist be a good thing. To which the logical answer is; being a pacifist wouldn't be a good thing, and he wasn't a pacifist. If you were engaging honestly that would be your argument, but instead you have to twist yourself in circles.
>>18030953American airplanes were inferior to European planes at that time but were still usefull. It allowed them to use thier better planes elsewhere and also allowed the British to use thier experience in aircraft design to help improve them. The bigger help from the u.s. probably came from raw materials and simpler complex machines. The Soviets on the other hand did not have great planes at the time and needed resources like copper and other things even more than Britain did. With the United States supplying Germanys two main opponents and only ramping up for more its easy in hindsight to see why Germany did what it did. Defeat the Soviets before the United States could establish enough of a foothold to attack them from the west was thier goal. If Japan cared about German input at all this is likely why they attacked Pearl Harbor. Although they had reasons of thier own.
>>18030991>No, I asked why would he being a pacifist be a good thingYes that's literally what I said retard>>18030994>American airplanes were inferior to European planes at that time but were still usefull.Not really. And in any case Britain was producing more planes than America at this time, these American planes were ultimately a small contribution to the whole force and made little difference. >came from raw materialsAnd America continued to trade in those things with Germany as well. For instance standard oil supplied Nazi Germany up until the declaration of war.
>>18030711>as was declaring war on the United States for seemingly no good reasonIs this myth still being parroted? There was already a de facto state of war between the two countries. Hitler avoided making it an official war to rob Roosevelt of a war economy, but after Pearl Harbor this was no longer an incentive, as Roosevelt had the support he needed in congress
>>18030711>>18031012If anything the honourable thing for Hitler to do would have been to declare war on America months earlier, but Hitler wasn't honourable so he kept the naval war unofficial for as long as possible
>>18030818No they didn't moronSarin wasn't properly developed until the final years of the war, and it was in low amount. It was also extremely dangerous and unstable so it wasn't suitable for military use yet.Again, you're better off arguing for Tabun because they created vast stockpiles of it and it was better suited for bombs and shells, and production came earlier.
>>18031048>developed for mass production by 1939> In mid-1939, the formula for the agent was passed to the chemical warfare section of the German Army Weapons Office, which ordered that it be brought into mass production for wartime use. Pilot plants were built, and a production facility was under construction (but was not finished) by the end of World War II. Estimates for total sarin production by Nazi Germany range from 500 kg to 10 tons.[45]>Though sarin, tabun, and soman were incorporated into artillery shells, Germany did not use nerve agents against Allied targets. Adolf Hitler refused to initiate the use of gases such as sarin as weapons.[46]Why lie about something on Wikipedia?Did you Google sarin before posting about it because it seems like you did not?Yes the fascist Nazi racist anti semites COULD HAVE WON but chose not to for moral reasons.Sorry this causes you anguish.
A coat pocket could carry enough sarin to completely wipe out the greater London area.Germany had literal tons of the stuff but chose not to use it.
>>18031005>standard oil supplied Nazi Germany up until the declaration of waSource on that bullshit? You mean before Britain and France declared war on Germany thereby proving that American industry wasn't aiding the Axis but instead the allies?
>>18031071Citation desperately needed.
>>18030711They lost the moment they went after Jews.International Jewry was already too powerful in 1940. Germany could've never won against the combined might of Jewish-occupied states (US, Russia, UK, etc.).It was a hopeless fight since the very beginning.
>>18031092Trvke
>>18031005>The British Royal Air Force (RAF) flew numerous American-built aircraft during World War II, receiving approximately 13,417 fighters, 8,003 light bombers, 3,247 medium bombers, and 2,135 heavy bombers, totaling around 26,802 aircraft, according to a Wikipedia article. This large number reflects the significant role U.S. aircraft played in the British war effort, including aircraft like the P-51 Mustang, B-17 Flying Fortress, B-24 Liberator, and TBF Avenger. >here Britain have our best aircraft we can make right now and tell us how good they are. Don't worry we're already making better ones and they will be arriving in no time once we ramp up production. Germany? Germany won't care! Why should they? No of course we won't supply Germany anymore you idiots!Is that how it happened in your mind?
Don't feed the kid
Their greatest mistake was diverting military resources to genocide and occupation policies in the East rather than strategic objectives.
>>18031087>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin#Toxicity
>>18030826No, they couldn't you dumb fuck. Atomic weapons were superior to Sarin
>>18031062Again, no you dumb fucktard. They did not have enough of Sarin to even slightly hamper the Allied and Soviet war machine.
>>18030711all the people in this thread saying they could of won are dumbasses. No they could not, USSR was superior in every military way. Significantly larger industrial base, way more people, and home land advtange. Germany thought at the start of barbarossa the USSR had 10k tanks to their 3k. They had 25k. And were pumping out hundreds every month.
>>18031071Kek, not it couldn't you fucking imbecile. Nothing in that article even states that, you fucking autist.
>>18031611Anon, that doesnt prove what your claiming, Open air and the wind would greatly dilute that. Hell one of the major reasons they didn't use it so much during ww1 was cause the wind kept blowing the shit back into their face.
>>18031085>Source on that bullshit?>https://www.nytimes.com/1942/04/04/archives/says-standard-oil-aided-nazi-airlines-berle-testifies-firm-stopped.htmlToo afraid to look it up yourself? >You mean before Britain and France declared war on Germany Nope, after. >>18031103>during World War IIThis is for the entire war you faggot. Are you being disingenuous or merely retarded? I explicitly was refering to before when American entered the war>P-51 MustangFirst use 1942> B-17 Flying FortressThe RAF only had 20 prior to American joining the war and regarded by the RAF as ineffective >B-24 LiberatorFirst use late 1941, again only a small number before America entered the war. >TBF Avenger.First use 1942
>>18030733It isn't just Hitler. The German people as a whole believed their own propaganda and mythos about themselves. They believed themselves to be the smartest and ablest peoples on the planet and expected their proper place at top of the world order. Hubris bit them in the ass twice and soon thrice. Their allowing mass migration has fucked the whole of western Europe.
>>18032300This isnt true. Only a small amount of the German population were dedicated nazies. Most of them were simply complacent to the ideology while others were skeptical. We literally have the exact same debate today about the Gaza residents and how much they support Hamas ideology.Nearly all of them were patriotic tho, this was the norm among pretty much all nations at the time. They did believe that the war was a defensive war, as portrayed by state propaganda, and war usually makes a people rally to their government. A couple of years before the Ukraine war, there were massive protests in Moscow against Putin. Now most Russians express deep patriotic sentiments because the war has made them feel cornered against the rest of the world. Putins hold over Russian society has increased as a result.
>>18032311I think you miss the point. Nazi was just a flavor to corral German hubris and it didn't take much. If it hadn't been Hitler it would have been another that preached what Germans wanted to hear. The same group think from before the turn of the century. You believe Wilhelm had to drag the German people to war to take what is rightfully theirs? No.
>>18031062Again, Sarin wasnt produced until late in the war.Your quote literally says this. They had not even made test facilities yet by 1939, and any real facility was never completed. Production did not begin until very late in the war, and your own text says they produced between 0.5-10 tons, which is an extremely low amount.
>>18032325nta, germans were of course in favor of revision of the Versailles treaty but not by means of war. Even Goebbels wrote in his diary that the people don't want war. That's why Hitler had to frame every military action as defensive in the first place
>invasion of USSRForced because the war had stalled. Defeating the USSR was the only way to bring Britain to the negotiating table.>declaring war on the USMeaningless gesture. The US was already at war with Germany.
>>18030729>Deliver a warhead containing sarin gas via V2>it gets stuck underground and kills 200 earthworms
>>18030725No physical evidence for battle of stalingrad.Nazis were rotschilds and it was never realistic for them to "win" anything nor was there ever an intent. His spends massive threads discussing motives of a government run behind the scenes by neurotic incoherent Jews.
>>18032895>No physical evidence for battle of stalingrad.Welcome back. Where did you go?
>>18032300>The German people as a whole believed their own propaganda and mythos about themselvesBy a few months in barbarossa the people didn't anymore. German media readers and listeners went down MASSIVELY, and they started to listen to foreign broadcasts and those had a massive spike. Goebbels himself brought this up and realized his new "battle" was to get people to believe again.
