Imagine thinking the US founding fathers were Christian. Lmao.
>>18035165They were, but their religion was much different than the nonsense most today call Christianity.
They were. Even if you're just restricting the argument to the most well-known Founders, the case for deism ranges from the outright dishonest to the nearly nonexistent. Online you'll frequently see Franklin's youthful flirtation with deism presented as a defining trait.
>>18035165Pretty much from the Renaissance up until say WW2, Christianity was something smart people really only paid lip-service to. Everyone educated knew it was bogus, but they kept up the charade of being Christian while winking at each other.It wasn't until American evangelism post WW2, that people actually started to take the Biblical nonsense seriously again.
>>18035180I think there are two attitudes on secularism. One is a just a separation of church and state(American view) And the other is being non religious. (french/European view)
Read the treaty of tripoli, christians
>>18035189Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.Thanks bro.
>>18035176Nope, most of them were Deists, not Christians. Deists acknowledge the existence of some kind of singular creator deity and that’s it. They have no beliefs beyond that and are no more Christian than Jews, Muslims, or even Zoroastrians are. Deism was historically a more common (and is a more logical) form of irreligiousness than atheism and practically all enlightenment-era intellectuals were Deists, not Christians or even Atheists.When the founding fathers mentioned “God”, they were referring to the Deist notion of God, not the Christian one.
>>18035165Almost all of them were. Except a handful, most notably Thomas Jefferson, were deists.
>>18035165most were nominally presbytarians, episcopalians, or deists, thomas jefferson famously removed all the supernatural elements from his personal new testament copy. I would wager he went along with the idea of deism to not affront his christian contemporaries, but was atheist himself
>>18035264>Deism was historically a more common (and is a more logical) form of irreligiousness than atheismHow is believing in a singular creator deity "more logical"? How do you objectively know that? It could be many gods. It could be nothing. Or it might be something we can't even conceive of, to the point where calling it God or a God wouldn't cut it.
>>18035165The colonies always had a distinctively Christian outlook, and the revolution did not suddenly change this.>The appeal of John Clarke to Charles II for the charter of Rhode Island in 1663"That they might be permitted to hold forth a lively experiment that a most flourishing civil state may stand, and best be maintained, with a full liberty in religious concernments; and that true piety, rightly grounded upon gospel principles, will give the best and greatest security to sovereignty, and will lay in the hearts of men the strongest obligation to true loyalty."The above principle of religious liberty, which was ultimately based on Biblical values, was later enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as part of the Bill of Rights. When your ideology starts moving away from Biblical values, that's when conventionally American ideas like freedom of conscience (i.e. not forcing other people to have the same opinions as you) and other concepts lose their importance. See the following:>Church of the Holy Trinity v United States (1892)https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/143/457/The unanimous SCOTUS ruling says:"These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.">United States v Macintosh (1931)https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/283/605/Majority decision reads:"We are a Christian people (Holy Trinity Church v. United States, 143 U. S. 457, 143 U. S. 470-471), according to one another the equal right of religious freedom and acknowledging with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God.>US Constitution, Article 7, Attestation Clause"Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the States present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names."
>>18035905Thomas Jefferson supported Islam and had a massive cuckold fantasy of Islamic immigrantion. Youd expect his to write about this but it doesn't because, despite being a board of mutt retards, his is also retarded.
>>18035182 The Age of enlightenment in the new world got bogged down by Puritans and fringe evangelists. Groups and sects that were expelled from Europe for being insane.Thats how you got anachronistic events like witch-hunts and vampire-hysteria while the rest of the world was getting rid of superstitions.
>>18036890Hitler liked Muslims too. Islam and orientalism was a romantic fantasy for a long time. Thats how the US got so many fake Islamic cults in the 1800s.
>>18035694Read Hegal
>>18036953>Thats how the US got so many fake Islamic cults in the 1800sWhat are you referring to? The only muslim cults in america is can think of is the NOI which began in the early 20th century and wasnt really inspired by orientalism, it had little to do with actual islam or even oriental accounts. The biggest and most direct influence in the making of the NOI is prince hall freemasonry, which ironically also derives a large part of its influence from British Israelism and their stupid cosmology (which gave birth to the even stupider black israelite movement).
>>18036953Islam or orientalism has had no influence on white American culture, the only people in the united states who have ever tried to claim islam actually did have a muslim heritage which was stomped out of them as they were brought over. Orientalism has always been just an attempt at displaying contempt for Christianity, which people like Hitler did have, thats why when he praised islam it was always in direct contrast to Christian.
>>18036989The guy creating the NOI was loosely inspired by "moorish" temples that popped up and faded a decade before. People who had no idea about actual Islam and basically created a strange cargo cult. Similar to "Freemasons" and neo pagans in the late 1800s.
>>18035165>too many women
>>18035264>most of them were Deistslying shithead
>>18035264>ERM most of them were actually heckin DEISTS chudNo, SOME of them were Deists, others were Christian, others were likely atheist but made ceremonial cultural references to “God”. I know this is a difficult concept for you to understand but people actually used to be religious as many are today. I say this as a former Deist myself, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Many Deists of the time considered themselves to be Christians, in fact. Not all, but many. Even if other Christians did not, they considered themselves Christian, and even non-Christian Deists would’ve interpreted their beliefs through a Western European lens. In effect, the founding fathers were Christian, even the Deists, with only the exception of any you can find who showed themselves to believe in things that could plausibly be interpreted as doubting God’s existence or Christianity in general.
>>18035264>>18037557Oh, and I should add, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams are both specifically highlighted as prominent examples of Christian Deists of the time and they’re both Founding Fathers. Their beliefs were seen as exemplary of the notion of Christian Deism. The way you speak of them is as if you imagine them to be the 18th Century equivalent of a 2011 Reddit atheist who says “why eat shellfish is Bible say no do?” and “If god real why bad thing happen? Checkmate chud”
>>18037546>source>ai slop citing Christian websitesLmao
no one thinks that, it's just trad christian cope with the renaissance.if you're a christian and support gay marriage, then you're a pawn of satan. but newton, who literally rejected the trinity and the nicene creed, was a "devout christian."
>>18035165Judeo-christians perhaps
>>1803518217th century was "The very christian" century and the peak of hardcore catholicism and protestantism among the elites
>>18037859AI is great because it makes debunking you idf shitheads much easier.
>>18035176How so?
>>18035165What makes you say they weren’t
>>18035905>United States v Macintosh>it has nothing to do with computers
