Why were the Greco-Romans so patriarchal compared to the rest of Europe? What led to this difference? Greco-Roman societies, especially Greek ones, definitely had "misogynistic" concepts that people consider today, but interestingly we do not see such a social model among Germans, Celts or Slavs, why?
>>18036096probably some idiot will say that it was due to the "Semitic" influence like Vargs, the imbecile, but the Greeks and Romans themselves threw shit at the Semites for being submissive and effeminate, so it's not a substantial answer
>>18036111I don't think the argument of seeking influence from an outside group is correct here, I think it's quite reductionist.
>>18036096There is a theory that I think Lynn said, which is related to climatology, the Mediterranean is cold, and does not require much "egalitarianism", unlike the north which is scarce and cold, which would require more egalitarian practices
>>18036217Did you mean that the Mediterranean is hot? Anyway, this theory is bullshit. The Berbers were very matriarchal, and at least a large part of the Bantu Africans have matriarchal practices, so no.The Celts in particular were matriarchal for religious reasons.
>>18036096I understand the Celts, but where did the idea that the Germanic people were matriarchal come from? Tacit or archaeological and linguistic evidence does not attest to this, husband in Germanic means master or Lord of the house, indicating patrifocal social practices
>>18036322What's the evidence about the celts being matriarchal anyway?
>>18036335Women had more rights and autonomy than their Roman contemporaries, even joint control of family finances and the ability to work in skilled trades. We have two recent studies of the Durotriges tribe, suggesting a female-centered organization with men marrying into local, powerful female lineages, literally, male exogamy. We have other tribes ruled by female elites. If that's not matriarchal, I don't know what is.
>>18036096I don't know why you included the Slavs, the Prussians were more patriarchal than the Greeks, they literally didn't allow women to eat at the table when there were men
>>18036502the Greeks segregate women within their own homes
>>18036111It very well could have been because they sailed so much and probably had contact with Isrealites going back thousands of years maybe.>>18036342That sounds similar to Spartan women.>>18036506This was mostly an Attic practice so far as I know. Because they have the most surviving written accounts.So Attic culture was extremely advanced for its time. But also Athenians were pretty damn brutish and athletic. This practice probably reduced conflict. And strengthened marriage. Seeing how they walked around naked sometimes with penis statues all over the place.Attics were intelligent hard partying independent people who sort of had a Muslim approach to women maybe.>if you did not want me to have sex with your wife than why was she outside your house all alone? Deus came from above and grasped my will. How could he not have? Seeing as how shes so blessed by Aphrodite?
>>18036096This is due to Semitic cultural influence, as they were civilized by the Carthaginians, who taught them everything from writing to masonry. And also due to genetic influence, as you have likely noticed southrons are brown mutts and look nothing like actual Europeans such as the French, Swedes, and Russians.
>>18036780Worst post here
>>18036685There was no contact with "Isrealites" and the Greco-Roman world until the time of the empire. Furthermore, what contact and influence was this? We are curious
>>18036780Cope Slav/Slave
>>18036111Romans never considered Semites to be submissive or effeminate, on the contrary, they considered them difficulty to control, warlike and dauntless, the reason why they had tons of revolts and wars in the levant just because of them compared to the rest of the empire, besides, the Romans respected the Carthaginians, even if they despise their religion.
>>18036342>>18036685Helping the man or having autonomy is not a matriarchal society, not even being ruled by one, these are exceptions, not the case, honestly you folk seems dumb and lazy...
>>18036871>Romans never considered Semites to be submissive or effeminateThey did>“Come, tell me why it is that the Celts and the Germans are fierce, while the Hellenes and Romans are, generally speaking, inclined to political life and humane, though at the same time unyielding and warlike? Why the Egyptians are more cunning and more given to crafts, and the Syrians unwarlike and effeminate, but at the same time cunning, hot-tempered, vain and quick to learn? […].”>“(...)here Syrians and Asiatic Greeks, the most worthless peoples among mankind and born for slavery.”— Manlius Acilius (191 BC, Quoted by Livy)>“[Gabinius, Roman governor of Syria] handed [the revenue-farmers] over as slaves to Jews and Syrians, themselves peoples born to be slaves.”The "Semitic" influence is over
>>18036873Tomorrow I'll answer and make you feel ashamed, okay? I'm going to sleep and I can't answer.
>>18036871Yes, they did. The "Orient" was always home to the weak and effeminate. The word "sodomy" was literally named after them and they can't help but rape anything with a hole in it, except for their womenfolk, but if you saw them you'd understand why, as well. The Greeks, the Romans, the etc...etc.....have all run rough shod over the Semites and they still want nothing more than to look and live as close to Euros as possible. It's Cultural Stockholm Syndrome on an unparalleled scale. Every person on Earth would rather have a literal Nazi move in next door than a literal Semite. Go ask.
>>18036335Women's influence in ancient society was not limited to a single aspect they also played significant religious roles, even for pagan standardsSee Pomponius Mela, Gaulish oracle on the Isle of Seine was attended by nine priestesses known as "Galizenas," who were respected healers and prophetesses, and men were not allowed to enter the site, Strabo mentions a community of druids among the Namnitae of only women there is evidence that some ancient societies were ruled by female aristocracies, such as those at Mont Lassois and among the Durotriges in England, literally proved by genetics The tomb of the "Lady of Vix" is a notable example of a young woman who may have been a queen or a priestess and the leader of the tribe There are also accounts of Roman female warriors and the famous Queen Boudica. Furthermore, the Gaulish Redones tribe is known for depicting an armed female knight, demonstrating women power
>>18036898>>18036902Greeks and Romans only considered Asians (Anatolians) and Syrians (Semites) to be effeminate, they considered Tyrians, Carthaginians, Arabs and Assyrians to be brave nations. Appian, The Punic Wars>Scipio, beholding this city, which had flourished 700 years from its foundation and had ruled over so many lands, islands, and seas, rich with arms and fleets, elephants and money, equal to the mightiest monarchies but far surpassing them in bravery and high spirit (since without ships or arms, and in the face of famine, it had sustained continuous war for three years), now come to its end in total destruction - Scipio, beholding this spectacle, is said to have shed tears and publicly lamented the fortune of the enemy.Plato, Laws>Athenian: So let us deal more fully with the subject of drunkenness in general for it is a practice of no slight importance, and it requires no mean legislator to understand it. I am now referring not to the drinking or non-drinking of wine generally, but to drunkenness pure and simple, and the question is—ought we to deal with it as the Scythians and Persians do and the Carthaginians also, and Celts, Iberians and Thracians, who are all warlike races, or as you Spartans do
>>18036903correct, well, since the thread is up, I can answer before bed>>18036873Let's start with Roman accounts and then genetic evidence, okay?>a very witty remark is reported to have been made by the wife of Argentocoxus, a Caledonian, to Julia Augusta. When the empress was jesting with her, after the treaty, about the free intercourse of her sex with men in Britain, she replied: "We fulfill the demands of nature in a much better way than do you Roman women; for we consort openly with the best men, whereas you let yourselves be debauched in secret by the vilest. Such was the retort of the British woman>Roman writers found the relative empowerment of Celtic women remarkable1. In southern Britain, the Late Iron Age Durotriges tribe often buried women with substantial grave goods2. Here we analyze 57 ancient genomes from Durotrigian burial sites and find an extended kin group centered around a single maternal lineage, with unrelated (presumably inward migrating) burials being predominantly male. Such a matrilocal pattern is undescribed in European prehistory, but when we compare mitochondrial haplotype variation among European archaeological sites spanning six millennia, British Iron Age cemeteries stand out as having marked reductions in diversity driven by the presence of dominant matrilines.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08409-6#Sec22The study shows a matrifocal and matrilineal structure, but it is still not matriarchal, right? Female exogamy must be something else, but not matriarchal.
>>18036780>>18036939To explain,Here>>18036780the monkey says it's a Semitic influence, even without explaining exactly how this "Semitic influence" came about. Then, when refuted here>>18036898 where Semites were nothing more than matriarchal faggots.Then the midnight donkey cites a source that would corroborate his thesis>>18036924 but unfortunately, it also elevates the Carthaginians (who weren't really "Semites") as much as the Celts...>ought we to deal with it as the Scythians and Persians do and the Carthaginians also, and Celts, Iberians and Thracians, who are all warlike racesin other words, there's a contradiction here. What a fucking idiot.
>>18036924It didn't talk about "Semites" other than Punics. I think it's cool that you bark about genetics, but are you aware of the latest studies? There were even southern Europeans among Punic society. Reducing them to Semitic is something a Menaoid would do, and there's nothing Arab or Assyrian about them. I'm sorry, the source of the Greco-Roman patriarchy is not Semitic.
>>18036096>Why were the Greco-Romans so patriarchal compared to the rest of Europe?They weren't. All ancient societies were patriarchal. Women effectively did not play any important role in Gallic, British and Germanic societies.
>>18037015Not according to roman sources and genetics>>18036926
>>18037030None of those suggest matriarchy at all. Their entire political structure was ruled by men nearly exclusively. Your Roman 'evidence' is that women slept with different men freely, which does not mean matriarchy at all. You could easily take Caesar's account of Gaul and the fact he never fought or even interacted with a woman to mean that they had no political power at all.
>>18037063>None of those suggest matriarchya matrilineal, matrifocal and even matrilocal society (exogamy in the Celtic tribes of southeastern Britain) does not indicate "a matriarchy", so what does it indicate? For example, at least in the 1950s it was considered patriarchal
>>18037078>>18037063and in addition to the genetic evidence, I can cite other more specific Roman sources if you like
>>18036948>deranged southron babbletl;drThe Punic people, usually known as the Carthaginians[1] (and sometimes as Western Phoenicians),[2] were a Semitic people who migrated from Phoenicia to the Western Mediterranean[3] during the Early Iron Age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punic_people>>18036968I am aware of these studies. They showed carried E-M81 and a Tunisian-like genetic profile, with some mixed samples resembling Jewish or Italian populations, which is consistent with how half-Semitic half-European mixed populations typically appear in autosomal testing.
>>18036820It's just speculation. Any maritime trade power in that region would have led to cultural exposure.
>>18037063Tacitus describes Germanic government as egalitarian, with leadership by example rather than authority, and in the chapter that women's opinions are respected and taken into account. Tacitus also mentions that they often accompany men into battle. In chapter 45, to his anon disgrace, Tacitus says that the sitones>resemble [the Suevi Scandinavians] in all respects but one - woman is the ruling sexread the sources, faggot
>In ancient times, the Germanic woman stood beside the man as a companion, sharing in the tasks of survival and decision-making, her role not diminished to that of a servant but elevated as an equal partner in the clan. It was only through foreign influences (Christianity) that her status was reduced, forcing her into submission rather than partnership." (pg 54
>>18037140Sources?
>>18037142The German Woman - Servant or Companion (1927)Also see "THE POSITION OF THE WOMAN">For the women, as Tacitus states after consulting the Germanic people, there was something sacred and prophetic about them. >Thus, the Germanic people sought the advice of women, and their advice and lifelong wisdom were taken seriously in decisions concerning the family and the tribe, especially in the spiritual realm, following the assertion of a particular aspect of womanhood.They were very matriarchal
>>18037145These sources are pure Nazi garbage, not even from tacitus I won't waste my time reading it. But yes, the Nazis were feminist faggots.
>>18037151They are all based in tacitus writings anon, stop crying>As Tacitus notes, among the Germanic peoples, the man sought the woman he desired, considering her to be the rightful partner. The marriage was then celebrated publicly among the tribe, with the woman acting as the guardian of morals. As stated in Chapter 19 of Germania, "Among the Germans, marriage is considered a strict obligation, and the woman is expected to maintain her chastity and loyalty to her husband." This strict form of marriage was widespread among the Germanic peoples, and it influenced other neighboring tribes as well.Cuck
All explanations that want to tie down patriarchy merely to culture or environment are wrong or at best half-explanations. Roman society , especially during the later Republic/Roman empire was a very legalistic society, it defined within the letter of the written law what kinds of rights women had when it came to divorce, property rights and inheritance, which all hinged on the pater familias, but once he died, women had pretty much financial independence to do as they will with their property. As a Roman middle-strata became significantly more wealthy during the Principate , you find many influential Roman family matrons and women. Christianity itself would not have existed without these rich women patrons. Lumping Rome and Ancient Greek civic cultural mores together is wrong. Rome focused a lot on law and tradition. Greece focused a lot on civic identity and practice. Democracy was something you did and it was a way for male citizens to prove that they were better than those not of your city-state. Greeks were "agonistic" against each other and supremely selfish when it came to ruling their city state. But that identity hinged on exclusion, no women, no slaves, no metics, no tyrants and no "oriental despotism". So if you want to find why this civic identity was so tied to enforced patriarchal ideas, look at all the negative qualities they transposed to barbarians. The first explicit patriarchal ideas in Greek though are in Herodotus and the most famous in Aristotle, they are all naturalistic which means it wasn't that they weren't inherited, but intellectually though out and developed.Contrast this with ancient Greek spiritualism and intellectual pursuits at the periphery. The Pythagorean school in Kroton, Sicily , accepted both men and women. Platos academy also accepted women, and there were many female Greek philosophers in antiquity. The ancient Greek world wasn't monolithic about its ideas of women and Plato is an especially notable exception.
>>18037158>woman acting as the guardian of moralsIs this really written? Germanic brothers, I will lose all respect for this culture
>>18037162Just read tacitus, Silly >Germanic men believe that there resides in women an element of holiness and a gift of prophe.. so they do not scorn to ask their advice, or lightly disregard their replies.
>>18037159you look like a leftist I'm not going to waste my time reading this
>>18037164were the sibyls of rome men?
>>18037166Its chatgpt shitty
I cant fully elucidate this but if you take in to account Athenian society vs. A more tribal migratory society it just make sense. Athens had permanent high quality architectual dwellings. Meaning its women were not exposed to everyone. It had well established private property. It had slavery (keep the women from the slaves). It had a strong marriage monogamy culture. It was racial, meaning they valued Athenian Citizenship through heritage. All these are a result of a more advanced sedentary society with a complex legal system. You could argue it was still pretty matriarchal. With priestesses, feminine divinity and presumably a strong female social system. But it emphasized order and stability. Something these other "more" matriarchal cultures sleeping with whoever they felt like did not have so much of.
>>18037170>>18037166Retards, last time I effort post for sub 80 IQ zoomers , who grew up on AI slop and can't write a research essay to save their lives. Open a fucking history book sometime you absolute wastes. We have an entire generation educated on AI and social media platforms, the absolute state of /his/ lmao.
>>18037159Chatgpt and also wrong>>18037140Why are you using a book written in 1927 by a woman with larpagan and feminist tendencies? Tacitus doesn't mention many of the things this woman said.
>>18037183say why I am wrong then faggot.
>>18037183As I already explained to the other anon, it is based on Tacitus and is no different from what is in the book, I'm sorry. Just read Tacitus, they were mommy boys>Germans believe something sacred and prophetic resides in women, and they do not spurn their advice or reject their oracles.
>>18036096we see masculinist and very patriarchal writings among the Persians, it seems that there is a correlation with civilization and patriarchy, we are talking about villages with a maximum of 2000 people
>>18037151Different poster here, well established story of a Roman kings acsenion to the throne based on his wife's prophecy.>After inheriting his father's entire fortune, Lucius attempted to gain a political office. However, he was prohibited from obtaining political office in Tarquinii because of the ethnicity of his father, Demaratus, who came from the Greek city of Corinth. As a result, his wife Tanaquil advised him to relocate to Rome. Legend has it that on his arrival in Rome in a chariot, an eagle took his cap, flew away and then returned it back upon his head. Tanaquil, who was skilled in prophecy, interpreted this as an omen of his future greatness. In Rome, he attained respect through his courtesy. King Ancus Marcius noticed Tarquinius and, by his will, appointed Tarquinius guardian of his own sonsIt's interesting that female divination was much more prized than male. Spinning and other household work was considered quite womanly and good women worked hard. It wasn't until the so called enlightenment and the industrial revolution that menial skilled labor was considered dull and unworthy of women's time. Before that the woman's ideal role was for her and her husband to complement one another for the good of thier family. Something lost in today's girl boss society.
>>18037172Athens did not have a complex legal system , they didn't even have a written constitution, Greek law was based on legal settlements at the courts. Yet there were also no attorneys or prosecutors it was done through arbitration and direct democratic selection. Greek civic democracy was something you did, it wasn't just "inherited" and it was often a brittle system that was overturned many times, such as after the Pellopinisian war with the thirty tyrants regime. See my post here: >>18037159You people need to open an actual book and read instead of using just theoretical guessing. We have more written sources about Ancient Athens than any other ancient society of antiquity, sans Rome. Furthermore any Roman source we have about Germanic or Norse culture says that they also had democratic processes at the "Thing":https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly)
>>18037158>>18037145>>18037140It seems to rely heavily on anonymous sources; Tacitus wasn't being impartial; see how he wavers in his writings, especially when talking about the weather. But since we're dealing with post-Christian and firsthand sources, I can mention that the Germans enslaved their own women, selling them to strangers or burning them alive with their deceased masters. It seems different, and if an Arab, from a religion more patriarchal than Christianity, didn't see what our friend Tacitus saw, would he miss this opportunity to say how matriarchal and queer pagans are? I don't think so. https://content.ucpress.edu/chapters/12938.ch01.pdf
>>18037217Idiot, this is off-topicPlease leave. Or better yet, create your own thread
>Women turned into housewives, reduced to breeding stock. Worse than the Muslims. Third world-coded. Whatever-I-don’t-like-coded. Read Germania. We believe in Aryan women’s rights
>>18037218Interesting, I'll read it. But both this Arabic and Tacitus are biased, they are not "good" sources.
>>18037132>>18037158This is pathetic, the Germanic people listened to their women, the opposite of a patrifocal home, seen in other European societies, the superior family model is the Greco-Roman one. There is nothing more to discuss
>>18037224How is it off topic? Athens has been regarded as the most patriarchal society of ancient Greece and I outlined the reason why. Patriarchal Athenian ideas weren't inherited they were constructed and intellectualized in order to build an exclusionary model of democracy that benefited Athenian freemen with property. It wasn't based on "law", "tradition" or "myth", it was intellectually thought out and developed over time as Athenian culture and political life became more literate, mercantile and eventually imperialistic against other city states. Sparta in contrast that offered somewhat more freedom for women in terms of managing property and freedom of movement, expressly forbade the writing down of their laws that legendary Lycurgus supposedly orally transmitted to them. Ancient Greek culture was not uniform and did not have the same ideas about women everywhere.
>>18037246It's fascinating how few sexist comments they left in their writings. The difference between the Greeks, for example, is clear. There must be some proselytizing explanation here?
>>18037217Thier legal system was simple but also advanced as a reflection of thier advanced culture.>In ancient Athens, citizenship was a limited status restricted to free-born adult men whose parents were both Athenian citizens. This status granted the rights and responsibilities to participate in the direct democracy, including voting in the Assembly, holding office, and owning land. Women, children, slaves, and foreign residents (metics) were excluded from citizenship and political participation. Just straight wrong on that one you are.
>>18037254I didn't want to waste time answering you, but heSorry>>18037240
>>18037240did any greco-roman culture express vigorous descent when the bitches at delphi were huffing fumes and telling them how they could beat the grand game or what
>>18036096Its Semitic tradicional heritage Source: "the French revolution 1789-1799-A new history" Peter McPhee">The men had to abandon in winter what had been called a matricentric society, where the women took care of the livestock and produced the fabric."Men tend to leave their homes for long periods of time and look for employment to bring money home.Europeans were/are matricentric
>>18037262dissent*
>>18037263This is the point I was trying to make but without your terminology. Athenian culture was like that as well. But you're saying jewish culture isn't like that? I thought it sort of was.
>tfw the (female) sibyl tells you to kill your kid to own the matriarchal celtoids and you do it
>>18037262They probably did if they were still living from whatever failed endeavor they set out on lol. Don't let your prophetic women do drugs kids.
>>18037240>the superior family model is the Greco-Roman oneThis, the Greek family was distinct from the Germanic one, which was what right-wing feminists call complementarianism (a euphemism for egalitarianism) and egalitarian in relation to women, the family was in turn patrilocal, patrifocal and patrilineal, they knew how the female mind worked and how childish and volatile it was to be placed in high positions within the social and family structure. According to Aristotle, women's duty is in reproduction and domestic administration. He even makes a very cool analogy about "reignty," where the husband's authority would be "below" the monarchical power of the master but in harmony with the father's royal guidance. Basically, the family was hierarchical in a way of government proportional to the rational capacity of the governed partner.>The slave is wholly lacking the deliberative element; the female has it but it lacks authority; the child has it but it is incomplete.
>>18037263It's because women did that in Greece that the men were able to do other stuff to boost thier income and participate in an advanced civil society.
>>18037240the explanation is in the climate
>>18037282I intend to have a family and it will certainly be Greek, not Germanic, Celtic or Protestant.
>>18037282That's sort of an asshole way to put it. Women bear children and must care for them if they don't believe that its on the path to hating God.
>>18037286>>18037273It has nothing to do with your point, which I don't even care about in the first place, if your intelligence is so magnificent that you had the nerve to compare a secular enlightened society with ancient Greece, damn, huh man
>>18037145>and their advice and lifelong wisdom were taken seriously in decisions concerning the family and the tribe,Taking advice from women and then giving them absolutely no leadership roles does not make them matriarchal. That makes them the same as just about every other society in Earth. Women acted as advisors for their husbands and acted as religious authorities in ancient Greece as well. You're still left with a society completely ruled and decided by men.
>>18037282Complementarianism is not even originally Christiancuckery, it was inserted into their midst by two old evangelicals in response to the growing wave of feminism in Protestant circles, then Catholics and Orthodox just copied it
>>18037304>then Catholics and Orthodox just copied ithumiliation ritual
>>18037298see how he is desperately trying to get his arguments across here with half-assed comparisons, but no one pays attention
>>18037306I know but who exactly cares?
>>18037282>even makes a very cool analogy about "reignty," where the husband's authority would be "below" the monarchical power of the master but in harmony with the father's royal guidance. Basically, the family was hierarchical in a way of government proportional to the rational capacity of the governed partner.Source?
>>18037312It's in Aristotle's biology, but if you have trouble finding a good translation, you can find Deslauriers, M. (2009)in PDF format on the Internet
>>18037282Muslims would be 2nd wave feminists compared to the Greeks, like, without irony, they believed that the guy's orgasm was the dominant force and menstruation was literally the governed material no irony at all lol
Good to see that the Celtroon and Germancuck feminist ideal is gaining ground again among incels of /his/, keep it up guys
>>18037275>b but women are the embodiment of wisdom we must listen to them
>>18037313He's probably asking for the actual citation and not any translation.
>>18037318Speak for yourself
>>18037298I may have misinterpreted your original post.>Its Semitic tradicional heritageSource: "the French revolution 1789-1799-A new history" Peter McPhee">The men had to abandon in winter what had been called a matricentric society, where the women took care of the livestock and produced the fabric."Men tend to leave their homes for long periods of time and look for employment to bring money home.>Europeans were/are matricentricSo your saying Greece was more Semitic than Europe.But book passage doesn't really make any kind of point because its not made clear what your ascribing to European matricentic and non matrocentic. Athenian women ran households just like that passage says.Are you saying that is NOT matrocentric?
>>18037316It's true though
>>18037282 he actually creates the "three dyads with a somewhat naturalistic bias towards the master-slave, husband-wife and father-son order
>>18037340yes? anon? that would be a problem for my comment how exactly? the contrast with other cultures is the main point. husband's authority below the master's monarchical power
>>18037345I said that maybe you were a bit reductionist, but don't get me wrong, I'm not denying how matriarchal the Germancucks were or anything, but for Aristotle, roasts were a certain civic contribution from women
This is straight from Google ai with Athenian female activitys as prompt>Ancient Athenian women's activities were largely centered on their homes, domestic responsibilities like childcare, cooking, and weaving, and religious rituals, including festivals and priestess roles, which provided a public outlet for women. Elite women also engaged with the arts and social gatherings with other women, while less restricted women found work as hetairai (courtesans) or participated in charioteering through sponsorship. It's really funny how the a.i. says anything less than being a social glam prostitute is restrictive lol
>>18037348>roasts were a certain civic contribution from womenOf course, but we have to be careful when reading this word, civic implies other things he could actually mean, basically he says that these civic obligations were in domestic virtue itself, but always indispensable to the moral economy of the city, although they remain subordinate to male deliberation, he cites temperance, (self-control over desires) thrift (being economical with the house)careful (obviously, I don't need to explain)
>>18037356>>18037348in short, women would be (and were to some extent) "second-class" citizens in Aristotle's ideal polis, unlike the northern wasteland where they had many rights>>18037316Greek society was very similar to Greek society in this sense
>>18037356I know, but I'm saying that women's civility was different from that of barbaric societies, and if I remember correctly, didn't Aristotle also mention that physical strength was a primary requirement?
Slavery was a major influence. When men are slaves they are broken and can be cuckolded, but free men, even serfs, will turn violent if their wife or daughter is preyed upon. In a slave society free men need to tightly control their women lest they are kidnapped and blend into that world never to be found again.The Mediterranean economy depended on slaves with as much as a third of the population being slaves in some regions at certain points in time and usually around 10% to 20%. Slavery was limited further north, it is difficult to control a slave when you are an isolated subsistence farm or semi-nomadic, droves of slaves on latifundia were not a thing until Rome arrived.
>>18037364>Aristotle also mention that physical strength was a primary requirement?What?
>>18037366I'm talking about masculine strength as an abstract concept
>>18037368Where did you read that? But if I'm correct, he's still using naturalistic precepts here, right? And I don't even think Aristotle himself mentioned this. Female control was based on force, and Aristotle kind of polished that.>>18037361Yes
>>18037372>>18037348no? did you read aristotle on wikipedia? male dominance over female is based on metaphysics not merely on the "natural"
>>18037376At no point did I deny this, did you see me doing this? The natural hierarchy is part of his metaphysics anon
>>18037318Even celtroons and germanboos believes in egalitarian stuuf
>>18037275>No, no, no, op won't stop sucking cocks!
>>18036096They were weak men that couldn't make a woman wet
>>18037091metropolitan punics were southern european with euro Y dna. Rural slaves were nafri mutts
>>18037545Nice fantasy. However... >Foreign slaves could also be acquired as war-captives, either taken in battle or seized in attacks on enemy territory, especially in the sack of a city. Thanks to the Carthaginian campaigns in Sardinia, many slaves in the later 6th Century must have been natives of that island, while in the late 5th and through much of the 4th Century quite a number will have been Sicilian Greeks.The Carthaginians, Dexter Hoyos
>>18037132One of the most based and beautiful passages ever written, especially the part about how the GerMEN knew nothing of usury and interest. No wonder the Schlomo-Squad gets so bent out of shape when they read it.
>>18037145The Germans conquered 100% of all Med and MENA peoples they ever came in contact with. Simple as. Indeed, these conquered "peoples" still want nothing more than to live, look and love their conquerors and their culture as much as possible, but never the reverse. The Meds and MENAs have NOTHING of value to offer the Germanics, while EVERYTHING Germanic is superior to all that is not. 100% of the data and actions of the parties mentioned confirms this fact 100% of the time with 100% accuracy.
>>18036502>Prussians were more patriarchal than the Greeks, they literally didn't allow women to eat at the table when there were menAnon, neither did the Greeks.
>>18038071At the same, being proto-feminists>>18038092they did, yesterday you tried hard talking to yourself and nobody paid attention to you
>>18038092Anon, they didhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians#Customs>Women held no powerful positions among the Old Prussians and, according to Peter von Dusburg, were treated like servants, forbidden to share the husband's table. Commercial marriage was widespread and after the husband's death, the widow fell to the son, like other inheritance. Polygyny, up to three wives, was widespread. Adultery was a serious crime, punishable with death. After the submission, commercial marriage and polygyny were forbidden>In Ancient Greece, the gynaeceum (Greek: γυναικεῖον, gynaikeion, from Ancient Greek γυναικεία, gynaikeia: "part of the house reserved for the women"; literally "of or belonging to women, feminine")[1] or the gynaeconitis (γυναικωνῖτις, gynaikōnitis: "women's apartments in a house")[2] was a building or the portion of a house reserved for women, generally the innermost apartment
>>18036222the Berbers were North Africans and only tangibly related to Romans. African culture itself is very matriarchal in general.
>>18036096Men and women fulfill different roles in their communities according to how developed their culture is. In a primitive, more natural culture both are necessary for the survival of the community and as such both are highly regarded. As the culture develops, subsistence is replaced by a more violent approach to civil life, which promotes men to take leadership roles, gaining more rights and responsibilities in the process. In a very advanced civilization the violent role of the male is no longer needed as expansion stops and civil life turns individualistic. It's not that the female gains roles, but the male loses them.To link it to the OP germanics were more primitive societies, while greeks and romans were developing and later they decayed during imperial times.
Germanics were ahead of their time. Women had property rights and could influence chieftains.
>>18036096Gays being jealous of women
>>18038929>semantics
>>18039473Correct, and that's why EVERY woman on Earth and her mother wants to live in the most Germanic culture they can find. It may not be perfect, but it is and has always been the best for women(1/2 the population) by far. The uber-Leftie brownoid women are the best example of this conflict between "hating whitey", but know they dare not ever leave his culture either, or they're back in the cage and under the veil.
>>18037318Shitalian demoralization post #133
>>18036096> matriarchal societyNo such thing. A phantasy made up by modern tranny scientists. ALL societies are patriarchal. Starting from there, they offer the more rights to women the more white and Aryan they are. Thus, England is ruled by a Queen, while the barbarian hordes of Midgard beat their women into submission.
