Why is so much modern literature and academia surrounding criminal justice about how "criminals are the real victims" and that investing more resources into law enforcement is Le bad and doesn't lower crime because we say so.
>>18039695Name 5 movies made in the last 30 years that do this.
>>18039695Because from a broader societal perspective, Criminals are just the symptoms, not the disease itself. If you just focus on Criminals then cool, you are just going to fight an eternal war over it. The rest is strawman.
>>18039695commie seethe about how the 1993 crime bill reduced crime by putting super predators and drug addicts in jail>>18039703it literally works though
>>18039701>Literature and academia
>>18039707The commies you use as an insult are actually good in criminal-centric approach to law and order. Just look at how China deals with the drug problem- oh wait, they don't have any thanks to brutal policing lmao.The problem with that approach is it makes people hostile to the authorities, while solving non of the systematic reasons for crime. You'e cutting heads off a hydra at the end of the day. So when the ebin scary authority goes away (and they do, no tyrants last forever), you'll even have a worse crime problem on your hands.
>>18039695>ModernRobin Hood? Blackbeard? Guy Fawkes? Cowboys?What makes you think that Scelerophilia is a new thing?
>>18039695Never heard of Robin Hood?
>>18039721First of all Robinhood was a Monarchist who wanted the rightful king to return to the throne Second it's less about admiring the outlaw lifestyle and more of the idea that because most criminals are from economical disadvantaged backgrounds we have to treat them like victims who have zero agency behind their actions
>>18039730>First of all Robinhood was a Monarchist who wanted the rightful king to return to the throneSounds like you're some kind of communist tranny trying to defend criminals.
>>18039721>Guy FawkesWho romanticizes him? He was a catholic zealot who tried to commit mass murder and destruction to then impose a catholic theocracy. I was just in Parliament the other day and they have some really splendid frescoes of him getting BTFO that I enjoyed seeing.
>>18039717>Uh China has been successful in reducing crime due to harsh punishments but let me tell you why that's actually a bad thing
>>18039730Being mentally ill, in extreme poverty, or having an addiction all by definition do reduce a person's agency though.
>>18039738>China has been successful in reducing crime due to harsh punishmentsSays who exactly? The communist party? There is street crime in china, there is massive graft in china, and there is breathtakingly widespread flouting of health and safety laws. Go ahead and google "gutter oil" and it'll burst that bubble of ccp propaganda of china as a crime free utopia.
>>18039738China has the second highest prison population behind only the US itself and most crime committed in China goes unreported anyways.
>>18039695>Why is so much modern literature and academia surrounding criminal justice about how "criminals are the real victims"Source?
>>18039759I'm currently pursing a Criminal Justice degree
>>18039766Then you should have no trouble providing a source.
>>18039695Because that’s the basis of leftism.
>gives state total power to punish "crimes" which are arbitrary social constructs>calls others commies>>18039707literally works at what being 1984?
>>18039718we don't sign our posts here, faggot>>18039717so you are saying we need to trade a solution that works in multiple countries for one that doesn't work and causes more crime?
>>18039769https://journals.calstate.edu/arcjs
>>18039771>yeah rape, robbery, assault and murder are just social constructs
>>18039707It's much better (if you want to reduce crime) to punish criminals swiftly and make it so they're almost certain to get caught and punished. Same reason a guy on probation who is using meth who fails a drug trust and immediately go to jail for 48 hours is more likely to quit using than a guy using meth who just gets a warning (and then again, and again) and then eventually goes to prison for burglary to pay for his addiction. The U.S. doesn't do it that well because penalties can often be highly punitive where criminals go to prison for a very long time, but that actually slows the system down, so you get overcrowded jails full of people awaiting their court date and people getting let out on probation.Conservatives often complain about why some guy on probation for a serious crime was allowed to go free where he commits some horrible crime, so they demand harsher penalties (and politicians are never punished for this), but there's never enough jail space.
>>18039778there's tons of jail space, communists just do cashless bail catch and release bullshit
>>18039771>Being aggressive against crime is literally 1984
>>18039777Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety
>>18039707>we have to avoid becoming some kind of communist shithole>how do we do that?>by giving the police state more powerKek
>>18039792NTA but that's one of the few things they got right
>>18039795Then why would commies seethe about an effective crime bill?
>>18039788Most people consider not getting shanked or gunned down in the street a form of liberty Everyone who posts this quote has always been in a comfortable position and has never actually had to worry about their own security or safety
>>18039802Auth Left vs Lib Left
>>18039788pretty sure they hung people for rape, robbery, assault and murder back in Franklin's day. if I recall correctly they had a kangaroo court trial over murder charges in boston>>18039792>arresting and charging violent criminals with crime gives the state more power>the state arbitrarily letting individuals who did violent crimes out and selectively enforcing laws is fine though
>>18039802muh >it's racistbecause the groups doing the crimes vote for them>>18039807>lib leftno such thing
>>18039737>Who romanticizes himFat redditors between 2006-2010>>18039802Americans got buckbroken by cold war psyops that told them communism is when niggers steal the rims off your car at night. Libertards have been the strongest opponents of shit like the death penalty and lengthy sentences through every state. These dumb asses just can't differentiate between the two. My country has actual leftist parties. the reality is far from the stereotype of some homo in California tweeting about communism
>>18039809>no that doesn't exist because..it just doesn't >no, let me tell you what other people thinkAh, so you're just talking to yourself then.
>>18039695I can't think of a single "criminals are the real victims" narrative, except for the ones in black movies of the early 90s. The truth is simpler. Criminals simply have more compelling stories than the good guys. They're able to create colorful and charismatic characters without feeling the need to have them operate within the boundaries of polite society.Hence pretty much every compelling protagonist is an anti-hero of sorts. An underdog. Scrappy motherfuckers who don't play by the rules.Granted, you go way the fuck back to the early Golden Age cinema through the 1950s, then the protagonists usually were ultra square representatives of polite society. Which made those movies boring as fuck. No one wants to see, "good guy upholds social norms," where the fuck is the fun in that?
>>18039826there is no lib left. there are no left wing politicians who aren't anti gun
>>18039832blade runnerghost in the shelltombstonedirty harrydie hardlethal weaponbeverly hills copmad max 1the silence of the lambsfargorobocoprush hourse7enspeed21 jump streetmen in blackhot fuzz
>>18039834Wrong. Plenty of blue states (particularly rural) have lax gun laws. Republicans have repeatedly restricted the 2A over the past 25 years.
>>18039841both of those are literally bald face lies.
>>18039841Wow that's crazy so when's the Democratic party going to repel the NFA?
>>18039844weird how all the federal gun control laws, the NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968 and AWB of 1993 all had a democrat president and a democrat congress.
>>18039695>doesn't lower crime because we say so.More like because data supports that but you knew that already and couldn't make the thread without pretending otherwise.
>>18039849I mean data literally doesn't support that. Data supports the 1993 crime bill and putting drug users and super predators in jail for 25 to life
>>18039695NBC was a radio monopoly formed mostly out of government that was almost immediately taken over by a russian Jew called Sarnoff who was "a representative of Russian Jewish scientists". In 1929 the Jew president shorted stock of NBC and made 5 million dollars. there was public outcry but he was not reprimanded. The Jew then tried to steal the parents for television and mostly succeeded. He then bought a gramophone company to start making TV sets, produced by NBC. Immediately they put FDR on television. NBC began immediately adapting the tech for war with Germany, eventually working with the British to produce radar. Some claim this tech helped the British defeated the Germans in Britain. By WWII Sarnoff the Jewish leader of NBC was the general on Eisenhower's staff for communication in order to produce anti German radio broadcast in Europe. Sarnoff positioned himself through lobbying to keep control of US propaganda broadcasting after WWII which he got and mass production of TV sets began. Sarnoff tried to block production of CBS's television set.Sarnoff eventually found himself working for the Rockefeller foundation where he pushed for aggressive anti communist propaganda by the US government. Eventually his son took over NBC.During the 30's NBC, run by Sarnoff the Jew with connections to military intelligence and R&D began promoting Italian composers on his company's radio broadcast as the greatest composers ever. Many people have gone back and suggested his success and fame had less to do with his ability and more his platform as the first US government syndicated composer.A son of one of the band members in this Italian composers band was Francis Ford Coppola. He tried to start a career making softcore pornography and was described as a hippie. In the 60's with most studios failing paramount pictures was taken over by a Jew who hired Coppola to make essentially a spaghetti western version of the Italian Mafia called Godfather
>>18039695After WW2 there was a general move in the Western world towards softer and more humane justice systems because everyone came to associate executions and mass imprisonment with totalitarian governments.
>>18040169It should be noted the original director chosen for godfather, Sergio Leone, turned it down because it glorified crime.
>>18040177It was softer and more humane, for sure, but certainly not towards everyone.The good-hearted, law-abiding part of the population greatly suffers when the state is wilfully soft on psychopaths and violent idiots
>>18039754Every normal country exaggerates how crime free they are, Japan does this to an extreme degree and many of their convicted turn out to be false to a detrimental degree. Thats how much they care about showing the face of a crime free society. Only in america where criminals are glorified we dont even have the pretense of trying to get criminals off the street.
>>18039707Do you think the ruling class will make you one of them if you call everything bad communism?
>>18040177>After WW2Beccaria published On Crimes and Punishments in 1764. Some places simply haven't caught up to his demanding standards yet.
>>18039840In all those example the hero is not a goody two shoes by the book kinda guy. They all end up going outside the norms of their respective institutions to pursue the criminal or even outright committing crimes themselves. The rule applies the same here, only these "outlaws" have been placed into a setting where they are conveniently on the side of justice.
>>18039811Communism does indeed go against the natural order, tho
>>18039754The Chinese justice system is no more harsh than any Western country on ordinary street crime, they only open a can of whoopass if the offense could threaten the integrity of the state.
>>18039738>>18039754it was ironically less harsh in the Mao era when they tended to believe criminals could be rehabilitated and made into good socialist citizens. in the 80s they began ramping up executions to combat crime.
>>18040177>After WW2ask me how I know you're brown and use twitter
>>18040533What a pointless thread bump.
>>18039776>The Sexist Colonial Feminism of the Israeli Defense Narrative: Gender-Based Digital Militarism during Israel’s Genocide in GazaLmao, who writes this crap?
>>18039695I agree with rehabilitation instead of punishment but it’s so obvious that many of the people who agree with me just want criminals to be able to commit crime with no consequences ( and only because they’re black)Also rehab isn’t effective against murderers and rapists. You have to use punishment against them to deter them from committing those crimes in the first place.
>>18039841why do commies say this shit when it's objectivly not true? do they think gun owners are retarded? do they think gun owners don't read the news?
>>18040609>Also rehab isn’t effective against murderers and rapists. You have to use punishment against them to deter them from committing those crimes in the first place.that said, life imprisonment is dumb. you only need to keep a guy locked up until he's a boomer since old people aren't very dangerous or likely to commit crime. just enough to keep him off the streets when he's young and in his physical prime.
>>18040177>softer>more humane more like softer and pro crime
>>18040318the enemies of humanity are literal communists
>>18040335what rule does marge break in fargo? what about in hot fuzz?
>>18039707Communists had secret police and hard labor as punishment for even the most minor crimes. Americans are so retarded they're convinced they're too soft on crime when they STILL managed to have more people locked up than the authoritarian shitholes of the 20th century.
>>18040696murderers should get capital punishment.>this guy murdered and raped, better only give him 20 years for raping and killing a dozen women>>18040609rehabilitation doesn't work
>>18040771blue commies are soft on crime, yuro tranny. the guy who force fed a woman human shit was out the same day to do a hate crime
>>18040780>blue commiesWtf does this even mean? Read a real history book about those communist regimes you yap about you inbred nigger. you don't know what "hard on crime" really means.
>>18040808commies are pro crime, cope tranny
>>18040775>murderers should get capital punishmentit's more humane than life without parole in any case
>>18040818I'm white, you gay retard
>>18039776Some of this is in line with what you read elsewhere. Some of it is gibberish
>>18040277I am not harmed by a first time DUI offender getting a plea deal and a year of probation instead of the 1 year in prison maximum. Most people don't reoffend after a good diversion program.
>>18040775Raping and killing a dozen women will probably get you life imprisonment in most countries.
>>18040775Throwing people in jail to become institutionalized via lengthy sentences over misdemeanors is even more retarded.
Calling someone a deviant locks them into that identity and makes reform harder. So, the system itself is seen as perpetuating crime.
>>18041200>let the drunk drivers go out and drunk drive againthey were trying to commit murder>>18041205that poster said he didn't want people getting life in prison
>>18041213nah, it's based, they should be beaten too. >>18041218they are literally evil pieces of shit
>>18041239No jurisdiction in the world treats drunk driving as attempted murder. That's based on centuries of legal precedent.
>>18041265what is guilt? the intention of the act or the consequences of the act? every drunk driver who hasn't killed someone just got lucky, their actions and intent are just as guilty as the drunk drivers who did kill people
>>18039701>Minority Report>The Green Mile>District 9>Just Mercy>The Central Park Five>Shawshank Redemption>Breaking Bad>To Kill a Mockingbirdthats 8
>>18041277Murder requires certain degrees of malice and intent. If there is a death it's manslaughter.
>>18039695Shitty strawman OP. Throwing money at cops doesn't make them better trained or capable. It just leads to more waste and bloat.
>>18041241>they are literally evil pieces of shitDo you think you should suffer a shitty blot on your credit score for debt you had and paid off 10 years ago?
>>18040609>it’s so obvious that many of the people who agree with me just want criminals to be able to commit crime with no consequences ( and only because they’re black)No one says that.>rehab isn’t effective against murderers and rapists. You have to use punishment against them to deter them from committing those crimes in the first place.It is, what the fuck do you think they'll be doing during their prison sentences exactly?
>>18039717China is fascist though.Hitler solved crime problem too. Like he solved people skipping fairs on public transit just be sending police one day to round up all violators and put them into jail.Commie USSR on the other hand was full of crime (anarcho-tyranny). Putin literally started his career as street thug.
>>18039703El Salvador reduced its murder rate by more than 98% in just a few years simply by locking up violent criminals. No 'root causes' discourse or hand-wringing; just intense targeting of violent gangs and their members. And it worked. According to most 'criminologists,' this should have been impossible, because 'structural factors' should have caused new criminals to take the place of the incarcerated ones.But that hasn't happened, probably because something like 'propensity to be a violent criminal' is a gradient with a strong genetic basis, and if you lock up or kill the most violent elements of your society, the remaining members will be much more peaceable.
>>18041285there is malice, they decided to take a grossly negligent action knowing it could result in someone's death. it's not an accident when something is that negligent.>>18041300if someone does a violent crime then yes. fuck them. they are evil. criminals are evil scumbags who do not deserve forgiveness. they will continue to do evil actions because they are evil
>>18041308>No one says that.blue commies, like you, do
>>18041313>in just a few years simply by locking up violent criminals.Nah. Not violent criminals.Juts easily identifiable street gangs members covered in gang tattoos
>>18041314That's not what malice means in legal terms. DUI is reckless or negligent. Even countries that take DUI seriously make this distinction.
>>18041313>El Salvador reduced its murder rate by more than 98% in just a few years simply by locking up violent criminalsLmao trusting crime stats from a regime that refuses to let third parties verify the data? How dumb are you?>But that hasn't happened, probably because something like 'propensity to be a violent criminal' is a gradient with a strong genetic basis, and if you lock up or kill the most violent elements of your society, the remaining members will be much more peaceable.That logic got destroyed ages ago.>>18041314So non violent crimes that are way more destructive are A-Okay then. Man, your priorities are skewed
>>18041323But again, those gangbangers - according to modern criminology - fell into gangs because of 'structural factors,' which means that those same factors are still operative and should have generated a new class of gangbangers by now. But that is not what we observe.
>>18041317Did you fly in from some psychotic part of thw Twitter sphere?
>>18039695Most people don't actually understand criminality. They believe that you must have some kind of reason to do crime, like a distorted sense of right and wrong from abuse or lashing out against society because it wronged you in some way.They can't comprehend that a tiny subsection of the population would just do crime because it's an easy shortcut to wealth or power. People do crime for two main reasons. Either they simply don't give a fuck about the consequences or are genuinely too retarded to conceptualize the consequences. Neither are relatable or conceivable to a normal person (or academic)
>>18041326canada doesn't even allow dui criminals into their country. it's an evil act and should be correctly punished >>18041332>So non violent crimes that are way more destructive are A-Okay then. Man, your priorities are skewedyou are literally arguing that someone who did an assault, rape or armed robbery should just be let off scotfree. fuck that. criminals should be punished harshly. it reduces crime
>>18041339nyc literally let the guy who force fed a woman human shit out of jail the same day he force fed a woman human shit because he's black and retarded. There's an old deleted tweet from the head of the subway cops from a few years ago about how like half of all subway arrests are 20 people getting arrested over and over and over again
>>18041340which is why being violently retarded, like albert fish, should be an aggravator or enhancer.>no it would stop the mentally ill from getting treatmentsomeone being mentally ill is a totally different thing, the mentally ill rarely commit violent crimes. what I'm saying is the subset of people who are violently retarded should be delt with in a similar way to the way we deal with violent dogs, we don't try to rehabilitate and release super violent vicious dogs
>>18041348Canada can allow you in under some circumstances. Like if you got a conditional discharge, went through rehab, or got a letter from an attorney who knows about this stuff. BTW Canada still has issues with drunk drivers in rural areas. Turns out one of the biggest factors in reducing DUIs is public transport.
>>18039695Because since the concept of punishing the criminal (even if is not through physical punishment, but just psycological like arresting and throwing them at the panopticom) is over since socialism infiltrated academia because, in their words, "the criminal is a revolutionarie in the making".
>>18041436maybe the should lock up the 20 schizos who make up half the arrests on nyc subways then. fucking public transport is the worst experience known to man. it's slow, it smells bad, it's full of homeless and violent retards and drug users, it takes 6 times as long as just driving, it's full of loud shitty music, they deny you your right to carry a gun on it
>>18041519>they deny you your right to carry a gun on itWhy the hell would you carry on any public transport? Thats trashy as fuck
>>18041340>Either they simply don't give a fuck about the consequences or are genuinely too retarded to conceptualize the consequencesWrong on both parts. Its a matter of opportunity.
>>18041348>who did an assault, rape or armed robbery should just be let off scotfreeThey still go into prison>fuck that. criminals should be punished harshly. it reduces crimeAre you 15? Going into prison or having to face heavy fines IS THE PUNISHMENT.>canada doesn't even allow dui criminals into their countryThey do though. Did you even google it?
>>18041531>Why the hell would you carry on any public transport?because it's my basic human right and so I don't get robbed, assaulted, raped or murdered by a schizo, you fucking tranny. some poor girl just got stabbed to death a few weeks ago. some other lady got lit on fire in january>>18041538>They still go into prisonthey don't the guy who forcefed a woman human shit didn't spend a day in prison for that. he left the court house, hate crimed a jew, left a second time the same day and then was arrested weeks later trying to bash in a cashier's head with a dumbbell >Going into prison they don't go to prison. go look up cashless bail and how often DAs drop charges, and even when they do it isn't long enough>They do though.they don't. Liv Morgan and Jey Uso constantly have issues getting into canada for the WWE because they have DUIs and both of them are well known and are doing shows as entertainers for a multimillion dollar company
>>18041531>Why the hell would you carry on any public transport?
>>18041332>Lmao trusting crime stats from a regime that refuses to let third parties verify the data? How dumb are you?You're right, we should trust crime stats from western democracies which are all honest and transparent with crime data. Like the UK, which in many northern cities with the grooming gangs, the police blotted out "Asian" on the arrest forms to hide the disproportionate overrepresentation of pakistanis in the rape gangs. The cover up which only got revealed after the government was forced into running a commission, as per the Casey report. Or like in Germany a few months back, when a police officer revealed that he was getting pressured by his department to stop putting so many non-ethnically Germans on arrest reports.It's absolute fucking projection, it's western liberal democracies and people who ideologically believe in rehabilitation who are fudging the crime statistics. These leftist ideologues need to be absolutely purged from the judiciary system, from the lowest social worker to the highest court judge.
>>18041582It's one thing to obscure or simply not report details of suspects and people convicted. It's another thing to hide reported offenses or reclassify them. Reporting of homicide in particular is pretty accurate in the US for example.
>>18041534You only take that opportunity if you are either too retarded to understand risk or you don't care about the risk.
Why do so many "criminologists" have zero background in law enforcement? Yeah I think I'm going to trust the cops who deal with criminals on a daily basis more than the ivory tower sociologists on how we should combat crime.
>>18039695Marxist doctrine states criminals are minority groups that lack power from the powerful and only act out because of their powerlessness.
>>18041888...I don't really see how they're essentially different? It's fudging the numbers for ideological means in both instances. Not even, because while you just have vague speculations about El Salvador because they won't let third parties investigate, we have actual examples of institutionalized ideological corruption in regards to crime reporting. Coming from societies that highly prize themselves on rehabilitative justice and human rights, and from the sorts of people wagging their finger at El Salvador.>It's one thing to obscure or simply not report details of suspects and people convicted.You are very heavily understating it. We have investigative commissions that have explicitly spelled out that leftist run local councils, and a judiciary and social workers that are ideologically committed to rehabilitative justice and multiculturalism, concealed the rape and enslavement of underage English girls by Pakistani men. They explicitly covered up the events to maintain community cohesion. People who believe in such nonsense as rehabilitative justice aren't qualified to work in the judiciary system, for ideological reasons. We need to purge the judges, social workers and lawyers who hold such politics. Clear them out and have them working menial jobs without influence.
>>18041923>People who believe in such nonsense as rehabilitative justice aren't qualified to work in the judiciary system, for ideological reasons. We need to purge the judges, social workers and lawyers who hold such politics. Clear them out and have them working menial jobs without influence.Aren't the majority of those women
>>18039695>academia took the JokerpillBased
>>18041924I don't actually know. Intuitively I think so. Kier Starmer himself is such a person, and his legal career was just simping for poor widdle brown people in the typical manner. When you look in his eyes as he speaks there's clearly no emotion, and he flip flopped on this shit with his "island of strangers" speech, then flip-flopped back to his usual anti-white self when that didn't work, so he clearly is in part cynical with it all.I do strongly suspect that a belief in rehabilitative justice is actually a cover for hybristrophilia for a lot of them. There was one social worker who agitated to get a criminal released in the United States, the criminal went on to kill someone, and it was revealed she was writing about this guy in reports like a teenage girls writes about a crush in her diary. These violent criminals literally turn them on.It's something well argued with any right wing politics. Are leftists just gullible naive retards that live in mashmellow gumdrop and rainbow forest fantasy land? Or are they cynical, insincere virtue signallers that just get high off projecting a better-than-thou morality? It's a bit of both I think.
>>18041939I thought the jokerpill was being violently sodomized by middle aged male prison guards
>>18041945>I thought the jokerpill was being violently sodomizedI think most of academia would also support that
>>18041549>they don't go to prison. go look up cashless bail and how often DAs drop charges, and even when they do it isn't long enoughPeople still are sent to prison. If they're granted undue leniency usually it's because many cases are unsolved, hence many perps aren't caught. If you're talking about something like rape, if the person is caught and convicted they're likely spending several years or more in prison.
>>18041923There's a big difference. One instance alters the total numbers, the other obscures details of suspects without omitting the offenses.
>>18039695imprisonment is objectively a severe, life-ruining sanction, and virtually every theory of justice demands the punishment fits the crime. Prisoners are not solely criminals, but also the victims of cruel treatment by the state, which often goes well beyond the demands of deterrence and retribution.Also, law enforcement is expensive and has diminishing returns, I want my tax dollars to pay for more useful things
>>18042014The cover up in Rotherham would've omitted offences if they got away with it, and they got very close to getting away with it. We seen them attempt it there, we're seeing them obscure and fudge data elsewhere, who's to say they aren't also omitting offences elsewhere? It's a hypothesis, certainly, but one much stronger than your ineffectual speculation on El Salvador. Say what you want about the BNP, if it wasn't for them fighting and bringing awareness, we wouldn't have had the first government commissions on this issue. It was only the "racist far right" that really exploded the controversy. Your side was the side concealing and abetting the rape and enslavement of underage girls, ours is the side of justice.That's not even getting into the fact that in some of these reports, it was revealed that all the Pakistani rapists had to do was accuse the teenage girls of saying "racist statements", and it was the girls arrested by the police. It's absolutely disgusting and immoral, and I find it sick that the United Kingdom sat at the UN doing the smarmy thing of lecturing other countries on rehabilitative justice. All the while they had that filthy secret festering at home. I just don't think you have any moral leg to stand on. Your ideological worldview has quite a lot of recent misery we can turn to.
>>18042046The difference is in a country like the US or UK where we have crime labs, medical examiners, and police collaborating to gather statistics on easily measured crimes like homicide it's hard to fabricate data and everyone involved is supposedly an honest professional. There's little evidence that homicides are undercounted, and especially relative to the risks there's generally no incentive for authorities to misclassify deaths. In less transparent countries where data comes from authorities with a vested interest in altering the data, the means to do so, no consequences for doing so, and allegations of doing so by dissident media, the situation is different.
>>18042046Are you talking about the same case where the authorities were slow to act because the victims were working class girls in care homes? And where dozens of men eventually were sentenced to prison, some for decades?
>>18042064I've just given you a recent example of where there was a serious attempt, it was conspiratorial, they got away with it for years, it's reported in government commissions to be conspiratorial, and there was an incentive to "maintain community cohesion". You chose to just ignore it and babble on about how it can't happen because of how great western countries are.
>>18041913I think they both would have studied criminology. Criminologists have broader perspectives and more systematic data on crime and violence compared to individual officers
>>18042076Can you point to where homicide statistics were fabricated? I can only think of a few instances of possibly deliberate misclassification, and they're mostly cases of police brutality or prisoner abuse/torture resulting in death.
>>18042072I'm talking about the one where the reports and commissions repetitively talk about how these girls were targeted because of their race, and how they were not allowed to defend themselves as a community because of their race, and where the Pakistanis in court boasted about being a superior race. Try to deflect it to being a class issue all you want, but the Sikhs manage to avoid being victimized because they were able to organize as a community. One of these girls was a middle class girl from a stable home on a paper run, not being poor didn't save her. If the police are participating (some of the officers that arrested these girls were Pakistanis themselves), and you cannot act as a group, you're prey for other groups that act collectively. As usual, leftists always default about their worldview failing and being shit by trying to say "B-b-but it's actually about social class". No, the blood is on your hands, your shit worldview lead to that horror. That's also not going into the fact the relatives of the Pakistanis found nothing wrong with what they're doing. Their entire community was complicit.
>>18039703Ok we'll see how consistent you are.Should Rudolf Hess been released by, let's say 1975? He was convicted of crimes that didn't have a legal definition when they were committed(conspiracy against peace and conducting a war of aggression), he was mentally ill by 1941 at least and from 1969 was the last person to be kept in Spandau prison. By all means he was also an easily discredited old man who didn't pose any danger to anything, at best he would try to hold a couple of rallies in some pubs, get disappointed by lack of attendance and just live the rest of his days quietly with his family.So would you apply the punitive justice of keeping him locked until his death(via suicide at the ripe age of 93) or the restorative justice of letting him go once there was no reason to hold him?
>>18042085Some people actually advocated his release. A bunch of people convicted of very serious offenses from the NS era were given undue leniency, but that was earlier.
>>18039703I don't necessarily think there's anything "diseased" about criminals. Like, the Pakistanis in my examples aren't actually defective, they just don't recognize whites as their in-group and think they're fodder for victimization.That's their worldview, their perspective, their mentality. It's normal for people in those societies to think it's okay to lie, cheat, scam members of the outgroup. That's who they are and their way of life (and why I don't want to share a society with them). The behavior only becomes questionably "defective" when it turns inwards on the in-group. And even there it becomes a question of what standards one should hold for the in-group.Sweden in particular has had a lot of problems with trying to rehabilitate non-white migrants. They used to be known as the great nordic model that was a success story of sappy leftist politics. But now they have a sizable numbers of non-white migrants themselves, the nordic model doesn't really work. Somalians there live in no-go zone ghettos and there's regular grenade attacks. They're regularly classifying non-whites as having higher rates of mental illness, but really they don't in a lot of cases, they're just not the same people as Swedes. They just can't help but think people are the same and try to hold these people to Swedish standards. The end result has been a very racially segregated society, one of the most racially segregated in the world, and even political leftists have retreated back from glazing up Scandinavian countries constantly. I give up my right to commit violent retribution against people who have wronged me to the state, I expect the state to follow through and commit retribution. I would rehabilitate my people to a certain extent, my family I "rehabilitate" by working through slights and trespasses against me. But rehabilitating strangers and foreigners after they hurt me? Fuck that, hurt them.
>>18041549>look up cashless bail and how often DAs drop chargesCashless bail doesn't mean automatic release. It means the decision to remand a suspect is contingent on the decision of a judge and not on the ability of the suspect to pay bail. Dropped charges aren't always bad either. It can mean the prosecutor is not pursuing charges where there's insufficient evidence or where police did a bad job, or they've just decided it's not in the state's interest to use its limited resources for that charge. Sometimes it's because there's a stronger case for a lesser offense that would serve the interest of justice or because the defendant pleads guilty to it.
>>18042101Sweden's problem isn't that they're diverse. Their policy on youth crime for instance is absurd. If it is too lenient for foreign youth it's too lenient for Swedish youth.
>>18042108It can be lenient for Swedish youth because Swedish youth are a certain way and can handle that leniency. The same reason you can have honesty boxes in certain communities and you can't have them in others. The Swedish diaspora in Minnesota has similar behavior patterns to the Swedes back in Sweden, which goes to show it's the blood, not so much the system. The Nordic model worked well until Swedish started becoming diverse, and then you started to see some strain and buckling. If you hypothetically extrapolate the Somalians and Arab population to be larger and plug in the same stats and numbers, their nordic model system completely collapses. I'm ageing myself a bit, but in the 90s and 00s, 80% of Social Democrat politics and the push for rehabilitation came from comparing Scandinavian countries to other countries. That's weakened significantly now they've had a bit of a great replacement going on.
>>18042118Unruly youth and criminals work similarly everywhere. It's a part of human nature that's pretty much universal. Even in societies with strong rule of law young men tend to do dumb shit. The cultural element seems more relevant to specific crimes like sexual assault and DV. Sweden kinda bit off more than they could chew when it comes to assimilation and they're more lenient with youth crime than nearby Denmark, Norway, and Finland, which don't have the same level of issues with grenade attacks for one thing
>>18041888I'm sure there are misclassified murders listed as suicides
>>18041924that must be why they are retarded and love crime
>>18041940I think commies are just evil>>18041987not to current events, but go look up how the conviction rates fell dramatically in basically every major city that elected a communist da in the last decade. the commies just let criminals do crimes and then drop all charges. again in nyc like 20 guys got arrested like 600 times on the subway in one year
>>18042032commies do not want any punishment for any crimes and we don't punish crimes hard enough and tough on crime objectively works
>>18042046god, bongolia is one third world hellhole>>18042064nyc got caught lying about coof deaths
>>18042082you are really going for a snuck premise on this one ben shapiro>>18042077anyone arguing for soft on crime policies is intentionally being a communist faggot
>>18042083sounds like those >islam isn't radical stats where like 90% of muslims think genociding israel is based.>none of the pakis thought gang rape of nonpaki women was bad
>>18042085>that's different he did bad things to the chosen people>>18042092weird how it's >undue leniency when they are nazis
>>18042104>Cashless bail doesn't mean automatic release. It means the decision to remand a suspect is contingent on the decision of a judge and not on the ability of the suspect to pay bail.it's based on the color of the perp's skin and if they are a legal gun owner or not. if they are a minority and not a legal gun owner they are walking. see the guy who force fed that woman human shit>Dropped charges aren't always bad either. It can mean the prosecutor is not pursuing charges where there's insufficient evidence or where police did a bad job, or they've just decided it's not in the state's interest to use its limited resources for that charge. Sometimes it's because there's a stronger case for a lesser offense that would serve the interest of justice or because the defendant pleads guilty to it.weird how the rate of cases getting dismissed skyrocketed in every major city after they elected a blue communist da. very strange conicidence.and again like 20 guys make up half of all subway arrests and no one convicts them, but they went after that white marine who is a hero
>>18040609I disagree. Rapists can simply be rehabilitated by redistribution of sexual resources. Men would not commit rape if the guarantee of intimacy was upheld by the proper authorities
>>18039695Careers in criminal justice are one of the last fields in the US allowed to have extremely powerful unions ever since the establishment has given up on providing services to keep their people happy. They are doing all they can to pin the blame on crime onto anyone but the criminal because it displaces fiscal responsibility on the issue onto the public. States like Texas like to pin the blame on crime onto communities so that their own police don't have to do anything. They'll say that texan citiznes don't do a good enough job shooting people for stealing other people's parking lots. States like California treat criminals like incontinent manchildren that cant stop pooping their pants, and it's their own state's fault for failing to help them.The truth is that the American legal system assumes way too much good faith in people. That's the price of its vague "freedom" mantra. The US will never be a safe place like say, Europe, because by design the country is built for criminals. With a legal system like the US, either you're going to set up a support network to help these criminals reintegrate (the US won't do this), or you're gonna have to start euthanizing them. There's no in between because we now know that the majority of crime is committed by a small percent of the population across all races.>that investing more resources into law enforcement is Le bad and doesn't lower crime because we say so.Pigs have so much resources that they can reform as a military force if called to do so. They have assault rifles in their cars, cameras everywhere, advanced recording equipment. They are paid more than doctors and lawyers just to be a visible deterrent. Giving them more money isn't going to reduce crime.And it's proven by studies that more patrols doesn't decrease crime.
>>18042230>yurop>safeyou literally have rape gangs
>>18042230what a gay and retarded yuro tranny you are
>>18042230>They are doing all they can to pin the blame on crime onto anyone but the criminal because it displaces fiscal responsibility on the issue onto the publicThey're all about blaming criminals because they want harsher punishments and more prisons. There's always going to be fiscal costs for criminal justice, but in this scenario it goes towards building prisons and training and paying staff for them.
>>18042205Incoherent schizopostMany US jurisdictions have next to no gun laws and/or treat infractions leniently. We also have considerable freedom to use our guns in situations where people don't in other countries. Race by law plays zero role in bail unless it's a racist judge. >weird how the rate of cases getting dismissed skyrocketed in every major city after they elected a blue communist daThere are virtually no communists in the US legal system, and a DA's party probably won't affect the decision to drop charges anyway unless they're progressive in a state where weed is illegal or prostitutes are still arrested. They look at their priorities and the strength of the evidence. Cases are also thrown out by judges if the police fucked up the investigation or violated the defendant's rights.
>>18042197Yeah some people convicted of serious crimes were sentenced to death but their sentences were commuted to life in prison, then to a shorter term, and many were released early after less than a decade.
There always seem to be tiers of criminals in any given society. You have your 'criminal class' who are born into it and live by it. Small minority but can become powerful. No point in reformation, terminal.'Oppurtunists' who do things out of a weak will, greed or desparation. Half and half on reformation depending on how habitual or mentally insidious they are.'Terminal fuck-ups' are the ones who are prone to making mistakes and poor decisions. Don't need reformation, they're just suckers that do stupid shit. They need pity.Then you have your political prisoners. Enjoy your Gulag!
>>18040584Someone who really hates Jews, I imagine. Read this abstract, btw>Israel often presents itself as a beacon for women's rights in the Middle East. This analysis of Israeli social media activity suggest that this portrayal is incorrect. Female IDF soldiers are often serialized for propaganda purposes and male IDF soldiers often post pictures of themselves in the Gaza strip wearing dresses and lingerie of displaced or killed Palestinian women. Furthermore, Israels occupation and current genocide in Gaza made Israel the main reason for the dire situation of Palestinian women. Additionally, different fractions of the Palestinian resistance exhibit a vision of women with a stronger emphasis on the liberation of women than Israel does. This paper bears witness to the distortion of Israels view on women.>Furthermore, Israels occupation and current genocide in Gaza made Israel the main reason for the dire situation of Palestinian women.Yeah, no fucking shit. What about the Palestinian men? Also, Jews are fucking evil for wearing the clothing of women they killed.
>>18041278>>Just MercyI read that one. It’s just annoying shit. Oh boo hoo the poor nigger killed someone and wants to be free. Fuck him. It all came off as dishonest too.
>>18039695Because the approach of trying to separate the "good guys" from the "bad guys" didn't work. There is a lot more that goes into socially pathological behavior and in some cases, the system is causing an issue. And because no fruit hangs lower than "the system done did it", that's the basic premise academic paper reach for. Their goal is to be valid and at least somewhat sounds, not to be actually helpful.
>>18042230>The US will never be a safe place like say, Europe, because by design the country is built for criminals. With a legal system like the US, either you're going to set up a support network to help these criminals reintegrate (the US won't do this), or you're gonna have to start euthanizing them. There's no in between because we now know that the majority of crime is committed by a small percent of the population across all races.'Hol up there, xister. The idea of cupcake rehabilitative justice was not the norm for most of history, it was a development that came about due to the post-WWII environment.
>>18042714>Incoherent schizopostyou are just fucking retarded>>18042714>Many US jurisdictions have next to no gun lawsnot in blue cities. in blue soft on crime cities any white person caught with a gun will get the book thrown at them even if it's something has having the wrong muzzle device or a barrel half an inch too short or a magazine that holds one too many rounds, where as a black person can force feed a woman human shit and not see a day in jail>Weyou aren't American> Race by law plays zero role in bail unless it's a racist judge.philly and SF basically stopped prosecuting blacks >There are virtually no communists in the US legal system,literally every judge or DA with a D next to their name or who was appointed by someone with a D next to their name is a communist who hates America and hates white people> and a DA's party probably won't affect the decision to drop charges anywayphiliy's DA is literally a member of the BLM terrorist group>They look at their priorities and the strength of the evidence. Cases are also thrown out by judges if the police fucked up the investigation or violated the defendant's rights.nope, they just look at the accused's race
>>18042718nah, that wasn't undo leniency for the nazis. where as dems do that shit with black criminals all the time >>18042777criminals are evil
>>18039737>Who romanticizes him?Zoom Zoom
>>18039695Modern Left-tards are obligated to believe that (a) humans are born fundamentally good, (b) are factual bad and therefor (c) social institutions like private property and so on is to blame for it.In this framework, society failed to criminal. Otherwise, there would be no criminals.The same logic applies when the "problem kid" in the school get extra attention or in such cases, in which a loud group of people get their demands because the rest want it to be quite.
>>18043668>criminals are evilNo.
>>18039695READ NIGGA READ
>>18043717yes>>18043714they really need to go back to expelling those faggots. they are fucking up everyone else's education
>>18039703>Because from a broader societal perspective, Criminals are just the symptoms, not the disease itself. If you just focus on Criminals then cool, you are just going to fight an eternal war over it.It is far easier to steal something than to produce it myself.Your argumentation implies that society ought to be constructed in such a way that illegal or harmful activities can never occur. This is nearly impossible and has never been done.Punishment and all these are effective means to prevent crimes if the criminal thinks about committing them beforehand. Spontaneous crimes cannot be prevented this way.>>18039717>while solving non of the systematic reasons for crime.The reason for crime is the way reality works.A predator in the animal kingdom and a robber are different things. Yet, the same abstract principle leads to both. Sometimes it is easier to steal something, to deprive others of their products, than to produce it yourself.
>>18043733>they really need to go back to expelling those faggots. they are fucking up everyone else's educationDon't got yo
Yes you can put certain high crime individuals into prison which will certainly have an impact and crime needs punishment. But if these kinds of individuals really don't feel there is no other realistic course in life than a criminal lifestyle it's just gonna keep going.Working against the underlying factors behind criminal growth, which does include the segments of society where they largely stem from feeling they have realistic oppertunities in non criminal lives, as well as suppressing the criminal segments, is the way forward.Just going "hurpdidurr five hundred years in rapetown for meth-man the armed robber" obviously won't do it.
>>18043668>seething about Nazis getting ACK'dClockwork
>>18043783just keep them in prison foreverthey do crime because they are evil, they don't do it due to the environment or society >>18044012>t.ranny
>>18043662Touch grass, retard
>>18042154It's not impossible but it's unlikely these days. Coroners (who don't have to have any qualifications) are being phased out by more qualified medical examiners
>>18044161you aren't even American, you pro crime anti gun tranny>>18044166they had someone misclassify fentanyl boy's OD as a murder and nyc intentionally misclassified a bunch of deaths during coof.hell, you have trannies currently misclassifying gang violence as mass shootings
>>18044192He's arguing disingenuously and in bad faith, there's no point engaging with him. No matter what you point out he'll just appeal to authority and make out that "oh it can't happen because western countries are so amazing and expert". No matter how much institutionalized ideological corruption you point to, he'll just stay beating that drum.
>>18044192Not getting into current events, but read the autopsy report and court documents carefully.>>18044204I'd be willing to believe it if I saw evidence of systemic dishonesty by all of the different people involved in the recording of events like homicide. For that to be the case, you'd need to have a lot of people going missing with no investigation despite likely foul play, morticians, MEs, and forensic scientists lying (this happens but not often), or police altering documents from the aforementioned experts. Most disappearances are reported to police, most MEs aren't going to lie on forms unless they're corrupt and covering up something like prisoner abuse/torture, and most police aren't going to alter evidence because that's easy to point out. Other offenses are a little different. Mostly because victims won't always come forward, not because someone is tampering with the number of reported rapes. There's surveys of crime victims that are generally accurate.
>>18040584seethe chud
>>18044233mario cuomo's son had to resign because he was falsely classifying deaths
a black man raped for 30 years and he's going to spend a max of 4 years in jail, probably less than 2 years>no the justice system is too harsh
>>18041278>>The Green Mile>had a psychotic inmate character that the audience was encouraged to hate and cheer on when they were executedRetarded choice.
>>18044233Even if what you're saying is true, none of those technological and organizational forensic advantages would disappear if we ended rehabilitative justice. You'd still have Morticians, MEs, and forensic scientists doing your job. And likewise, for all your contempt of El Salvador, they won't supposedly turn around and become instantly first world if they adopted western rehabilitative policies. They'd still have relative institutional weaknesses, less qualified forensic scientists, etc. So what the fuck is your actual point? And why are you so specifically attached to homicides when there's other forms of crime? New Zealand has pretty much the highest rate of house burglary in the world, with gang membership exploding like 40% in a decade, and that's a country pretty high up on the rehabilitative justice side of the argument. It's a clear example of a first world country with all the fancy tools you huff up, just totally backsliding into a worse crime situation. Never known someone to actually be caught for house burglary in New Zealand either. I've known several houses that have been cleaned out, and some people have their house cleaned out repetitively. Two cars have been stolen on my street and torched on the other side of town. And by the way, the former criminals I've worked with at my dogshit labour jobs think rehabilitative justice is a fucking joke. They brag about how lax and lenient their case managers are, and how they can just get them to buy groceries for them, and how they have all these perks. All as they brag about the violent crime they've committed, they see you cunts as dumb gullible retard suckers. My high school was so naive they had some former Maori prisoner give a speech about how prison sucks and how we should stay out, and no shit, the ex-con just started bragging on stage about the fights he won in there and gloating. I shit you not.
I remember early Portuguese explorers describing Medieval Japan. They said they executed thieves for merely stealing something. Modern Japanese are pretty law-abiding for some reason...
>>18044366Hence an effective legal system needs to have both competent professionals and a mechanism for rehabilitating and reintegrating ex-offenders. That's a commonality between countries that score well on rule of law rankings and public safety. The example of NZ is interesting - from what I've read, their legal system is a little harsher and more punitive than those elsewhere in the Anglosphere. The incarceration rate is higher and there isn't much substantiating claimed efforts to rehabilitate offenders. Some public figures have even praised the US system of boot camps for troubled youth.
>>18044379Except umbrella theft, from what I've heard
>>18044366>And by the way, the former criminals I've worked with at my dogshit labour jobs think rehabilitative justice is a fucking joke.They think it's a joke but it's much better than the alternative of "lets make the people in our prisons become even more hardened than they were before they even entered".
>>18044192You really double dipping on the shut-in retard cliche aren't you.
>>18044366>You'd still have Morticians, MEs, and forensic scientists doing your job.Already extremely hard to train and hire.>They'd still have relative institutional weaknesses, less qualified forensic scientists, etc. And still committing to reforms is a big part of actually achieving them. The current system in El Salvador hinges on having a fuckton of money to detain and hold people for basically as logn as the state wants which is super costly. Despite basically being able to more or less refuse to give each person(s) a fair trial which does "cut costs". >It's a clear example of a first world country with all the fancy tools you huff up, just totally backsliding into a worse crime situation. Still has extremely low crime rates. The reality of that can't really be pushed away.
>>18044366he wants black democrats to be allowed to rape, murder, consume human flesh, assault and rob people with impunity
>>18044396rehabilitation and reintegration doesn't work and has never worked >>18044399umbrellas are like less than $5 USD there
>>18044401lol no, rehabilitative justice is literally the single worst option after just not having a justice systemit doesn't work, it's never worked>>18044404you really have no argument, do you, troon?
>>18041923>It's fudging the numbers for ideological means in both instances.Thing is we can all access the data right now, you can't with El Salvador. Not even a crumb.>Coming from societies that highly prize themselves on rehabilitative justice and human rights, and from the sorts of people wagging their finger at El Salvador.Because El Salvador wants to burn money while barely making any money.>We have investigative commissions that have explicitly spelled out that leftist run local councils, and a judiciary and social workers that are ideologically committed to rehabilitative justice and multiculturalism, concealed the rape and enslavement of underage English girls by Pakistani menA fuckton of the noncnery in the UK started way way before Pakistani ever came abroad. You are trying to scapegoat them as the "cause" despite plenty of sextortion and child pimping occurring in the UK being done by local British people and other criminal groups or the fact many British institutions have ton of child abuse baked into them. There's also the whole Jimmy Saville controversy and Prince Andrew as an example, Lord Mountbatten was notorious for his pedophilia while having that be covered up by the government.
>>18044419>it doesn't work, it's never workedPlenty of cases of it working compared to the countless overcrowded and poorly funded prisons which basically became recruitment facilities allover the areas that masturbate to being "tough on crime".
>>18044411>>18044420>>18044404>bong defends pakistani rape gangs and thinks crinimals shouldn't ever be imprisoned and should be allowed to rape and murderevery time
>>18044423Because the problem extend far beyond token Pakis.
>>18044422tough on crime halved the murder rate. tough on crime has worked literally every time it's ever been tried in human history and has literally never not worked and has never had any bad consequences or repercussions >>18044424>yuro is fine with rape and cannibalism and murder and wants all the rapists, cannibals and murderers and thieves to be able to rape, murder, steal and eat human flesh without ever seeing a day in jail
>>18044414It's actually an AI bot. It's replying too fast and too consistently with a certain passive tone that's pretty unique to AI. And considering it's online replying within seconds after I respond, in between coming and going, the person has to either be a bot or have absolutely no life.Getting stuck on certain talking points is very AI coded behavior as well. >>18044396>Some public figures have even praised the US system of boot camps for troubled youth.That line of "some public figures" is straight out of an AI slop answer. Nobody online says "some public figures" in a discussion without clarifying further, but a response ripped from a LLM where the link is typically embedded does. I ask AI about stuff all the time and I can recognize the way it reads and writes.>The example of NZ is interesting - from what I've read,I always notice AI models use - where most people would use a comma or a full stop. When you parse the text, always keep an eye out for - used in this way. The dead internet theory is honestly getting pretty crazy true. I live terminally online and I've had discussions with people on sites, and I've notice them break into an AI bot slop answer at one point. These are one on one chats too on places you wouldn't expect. I don't think it's trolling either, I genuinely think there's organizations running chatbots on 4chan shilling certain political perspectives.
>>18044429oh shit you are right, it >>18044396 is using the indian -. only AI and indians use the indian - because AI was trained on a lot of indian internet posts
>>18044429NTA but I've always written with dashes in my journals. I hammed it off Céline. Us dashers are not all bots
>>18044429>>18044436Take your meds
>>18039695>doesn't lower crime because we say so.NYC has a literal army of police officers, guess what, really doesnt work. There is a certain point where more police does not actually lead to less crime.
>>18044426>tough on crime halved the murder rateIt did not, nor can you prove that. If the threat of death actually worked, the world would be a utopia.
>>18039703>the disease itselfThe disease itself is the natural dysgenic process of low IQ people being more likely to breed with each other and falling to the bottom of society. Social dynamics play a role, but the kind of people living marginalized are also exactly the kind of people who will be affected the most negatively by it, because they are dumb and lack self control. In a first world country, anyone who is relatively smart will have decent chances to climb at least a few steps in the social ladder, and if they get help from the government it's almost a guarantee. In the long run, the vast majority of people who remain at the bottom simply cannot be helped, no matter how many resources you pour on them.The only permanent solution is eugenics, which is an even bigger taboo than prison in academia.
>>18044774nyc does cashless bail catch and release no prosecution shit. the head of the MTA police a few years ago pointed on on twitter like half of all subway arrests are just the same 20 homeless retards over and over and over and over again and nyc won't put them away. the guy who force fed that woman human shit had like 20 priors and then did like 4 more crimes after the shit force feeding before he was finally in jail long enough for another prisoner to maim him. the fucker on the train in NC had like 14 prior arrests>>18044777murder rates literally fell by half from 1993 to 2008.tough on crime works. putting criminals in jail or giving them the electric chair works
>>18044803it's crazy that that's a taboo but we do it with dogs all the time. when they animal control gets a dog they put down the dog if it's violent
>>18044806>nyc does cashless bail catch and release no prosecution shit.Except that only applies to petty theft and low level crime, not murders or the like. And again despite the police force getting larger and larger these crimes are not going down inline with police growth.
>>18044806>murder rates literally fell by half from 1993 to 2008.That isn't proof... https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdfThere is absolutely nothing that says its because of tough on crime, and when i asked for proof i wanted actual evidence, not a statement.
>>18042032>but also the victims of cruel treatment by the stateYes, but it should be noted that certain experiences that are seen as universal and as an inherent part of prison life are actually localized, like prison rape or living in constant fear of being stabbed by an inmate you made eye contact with once by mistake. There's a particular group of brutal people who are doing most of these things, the raping and the stabbing and so on, which happens to be over-represented in American prisons. They aren't the only ones doing it, of course. But when a Japanese or a Singaporean go to jail they aren't afraid they may get raped by their cell mate. Point is. It's hard to have a working rehabilitation system when the prisoners themselves refuse not to make the environment hellish.
>>18044835>have a working rehabilitation system when the prisoners themselves refuse not to make the environment hellish.Which is why you have prisons specifically designed for rehab, and you send all the low level criminals there instead.
Life was better when the only law was that you will be protected by your fellow man and worst punishment was paying a fine (legal for a fee).Naturally, truly illegal things made you an outlaw and anyone could torture you to death and get away with it if they knew this.
>>18044840In principle I think that would be a pretty good investment if they did a good job screening for the best candidates, but I also know that academics and the likes will start whining that these rehab prisons are racist and will push to send the dindu nuffins there too until they become just regular prisons.
>>18041278>last 30 years>to kill a mockingbird
>>18044851Make courts racist and put niggers in front of a firing squad before prison location ever comes into question.
>>18044828the guy force fed a woman human shit and was out the same day. >>18044831>Steven D. Levitt>Yes, Steven D. Levitt is Jewish. His background was mentioned in a JUF News article where it stated that his co-author, Stephen Dubner, rediscovered his own Jewish ancestry, indicating Levitt is not the one who converted, but rather is Jewish by birth. totally not propaganda or anything
>>18044840>>18044851won't work. dems will send violent black gang members there, well the 2% that actually serve jail time and aren't just released on cashless bail to do more crime
>>18044911>won't work. dems will send violent black gang members there, well the 2% that actually serve jail time and aren't just released on cashless bail to do more crimeok so whats stopping republican states from doing that
>>18044900>totally not propaganda or anythingCool, so then post something that supports what your suggesting. I'm not going to play semantics, there is just nothing that says tough on crime did anything.
>>18044933all the crime happens in democrat run cities. whenever a republic state cleans up their mess, see jackson mississippi, the dems seethe about it >>18044937the murder rate fell by half from 1993-2008, though on crime works
>>18044949>>the murder rate fell by half from 1993-2008, though on crime worksIm beginning to think you might be retarded. That isnt evidence, that is a statement.
>>18044949>all the crime happens in democrat run cities. whenever a republic state cleans up their mess, see jackson mississippi, the dems seethe about itCities do not run long term prisons, those are all controlled by the state.
>>18044952I'm sure you are retarded because you think soft on crime shit where blacks are allowed to rape, murder, eat human flesh and rob people with impunity will drive down crime>>18044955cities have their own cops and DAs
>>18044961>>cities have their own cops and DAscity cops regularly beat the shit out of nogs so im not sure exactly what you mean when you say this.
>>18044966we literally saw crime drop when they passed tough on crime laws in the 90s and we saw it go back up when they repealed or stopped enforcing those laws>>18044968they clearly don't do it enough and it doesn't do anything if the DA is just going to let some guy force feed a woman human shit and then let him out on cashless bail the same day
>>18044974>we literally saw crime drop when they passed tough on crime laws in the 90s and we saw it go back up when they repealed or stopped enforcing those lawsCool so provide a single article or study that says thats. Why is this so hard for you?
>>18044974>they repealed or stopped enforcing those lawsCrime overall has been in a constant decline, this is just flat out false.
>>18045006fbi crime data>>18045008crime's gone up and down since the mid 2010s when states started legalizing weed and the blm shit started
>>18045014>fbi crime datalink it
>>18045014>crime's gone up and down since the mid 2010s when states started legalizing weed and the blm shit startedCrime has not reached 1980 levels. Small spikes does not mean overall increase.
>>18045017>>18045015>it's gone up>but that doesn't count, reeeeee
>>18045021I asked to see a link, where is it, oh right it doesnt exist. Why are you lying.
>>18045021I dont think you understand just how much larger crime was 40 years ago.
>>18045025>the crime lover is denying crime exists>>18045027ccw rights have greatly expanded since 1985 and they are doing a very good job at reducing crime while the blue commies are doing everything in their power to increase crime
>>18045028>>>the crime lover is denying crime existswhereisthelinkDo you have anything left but excuses at this point
>>18045028>ccwThose incidents are so few they are statistically irrelevant.
>>18045030fbi.gov>>18045033dead men can't do additional crimes. also there are millions of defensive gun uses per year, see Lott
>>18045036>fbi.govNo no no, you said fbi crime data, dont move the goal post
>>18045038what website do you think the FBI stores their data on?
>>18045036>also there are millions of defensive gun uses per year, see LottThose numbers are complete bull, the burglaries for example used in those figures for DGU by kleck, are more than actual burglaries nationwide, unless every american is apparently strapped that really is not possible. The more correct number is around 65k. But compared to the millions of actual crimes a year that really is nothing.
>>18045042No you brought up the crime data, now post that link. This is actually really enjoyable for me because we both know you dont have it. You cannot move the goalpost out of this one.
>>18045043nope, lott and kleck have the correct numbers. DGU vastly outnumbers the number of gun crimes. the 2nd amendment is the only thing protecting Americans from soft on crime communism >>18045045fbi.gov
>>18045050>lott and kleck have the correct numbers. DGU vastly outnumbers the number of gun crimes. the 2nd amendment is the only thing protecting Americans from soft on crime communismPlease tell me how they are correct when the numbers is more than what is actually commited. That is completely impossible. I'm guessing you just randomly googled something without bothering to check if it was real.
>>18045050>fbi.govIve buck broken this faggot.
>>18044806>the guy who force fed that woman human shit had like 20 priorsIs this your fetish?
>>18044835Do you think Japan or Singapore magically doesn't have any rapists, killers, or other dangerous people in its prisons? These are inmates we're talking about - there's always going to be dangerous individuals among them.
>>18044949Jackson MS is one of the most dangerous cities in the US.
>>18039695The main issue behind crime is that there really aren't enough jobs in manufacturing, the people who would typically work there simply cannot anymore since they are typically outskilled and underpaid, so its much easier to resort to crime. Over time that culminates into a cycle of pushing their children into that same business via tradition and now you have a large, sprawling crime problem.
>>18044810Yeah because we don't really have the knowledge of canine behavior or psychology to address it, and we don't have prisons for dogs because they're not afforded human rights.
>>18044803The thing is eugenics motivated a push to be tougher on crime and immigration in the US decades ago, and eugenics was all the rage for much of the last century. Didn't seem to do much.
>>18039840How the fuck are the criminals the real victims in fucking TOMBSTONE? Hot Fuzz? Where the criminals are an evil cult murdering people over a fucking flower competition!??! ROBOCOP?!?! Did you just Google a bunch of movies involving the police and shit them out onto the board?
>>18045364>Didn't seem to do much.Worked remarkably well in Sweden until they started feeling ashamed of it and doubled down on importing third wordlers and letting them breed freely.
>>18045256Poverty incentivizes crime, but most poor people aren't criminals. It's clear there's a genetic factor to crime and some people are more predisposed to it. These people may be over represented among the poor, but there are people prone to commit crime in all social strata. The issue with poor criminals is that they also tend to be more violent and there's no really fixing that. You can give them free degrees, as it's been tried, but they will still remain likely to chimp out.
>>18045577>Poverty incentivizes crime, but most poor people aren't criminals. It's clear there's a genetic factor to crime and some people are more predisposed to it.Most blacks aren't actually criminals either though, they're a larger share of criminals compared to whites, but most of that's not the same thing as saying most of them are criminals
>>18045248Around the world, prison rape isn't nearly as endemic as it's in America. In America it has gotten to the point where it's taken as face value as part of the prison experience. You go to jail, you're likely getting raped. When someone commits a heinous crime people will even celebrate that the criminal will get raped in jail. That's just not a thing in most countries. Sure, you can get unlucky and get raped, but it's not a major fear.
>>18039717>(and they do, no tyrants last forever)Dream on, China will still be around 3200. I predict Putin will live on up to at least 2070.
>>18039717China does have a drug problem though
>>18045584And blacks shouldn't be sent to prison just for being black.
>>18045565Sweden has levels of mental illness, health issues, and antisocial behavior that are normal for a developed country.
>>18045589This was truer 20+ years ago. It's a policy choice in large part. The federal system and many states started taking rape prevention seriously. It's still a big problem in states where prisons are severely overcrowded and badly run like Alabama or where staff aren't held accountable for misconduct.
