Is there a comprehensive, non-oversimplifying source/video series that can help me better understand the unholy clusterfuck that the Yugoslav Wars were? I want to understand what led to all the genocides on both sides (and why did they hate each other so much), the bombing of Serbia, the war crimes, Tito's role in all this and all the other stuff.Where do I even begin with this?
It begins and ends with CIA meddling
>>18040372Serbian nationalist cope
>>18040365Wikipedia is unironically good for a start.
What’s there to understand? Why do people always act like the Yugoslav wars were some super complex unsolvable incomprehensible enigma? Hyper inflation hit, people banded together along ethnic lines, and started shooting each other. It’s quite shrimple.
>>18040595It's just shitty reddit memes>get this bro, they're all the same but they had this incomprehensible complex genocidal conflict zomg!!>le slovenia is le femboy, le croatia is le nazi, le macedonia is le monky ahahahahaha!!!>some guy put a bottle inside his ass and blamed albanians!!! that's what caused the war!! le bottle sodomy serb farmer woaaah!!!
>>18040595>awwww bread costs a billion dinars I’m going insane I have to shoot my neighbors who are only marginally different from me
>>18040722Are you only supposed to shoot people who look and act very different than yourself?Not every conflict is white vs black people
>>18040595For me it's the seemingly idyllic life under Tito suddenly turning into the worst and ugliest wars in recent memory that is so uncanny. Of course the "brotherhood of nations" was bullshit and the welfare was built on lies. But so was like this in the other Eastern bloc satellite states and even in the Soviet Union itself, but there were no genocides.What baffles me are the mutual genocides. Bosnians vs serbs, bosnians vs croats, serbs vs. croats, everybody was genociding like it was a national sport. That doesn't happen just because neighbor wears a funny hat so he must die.Also bombing of Serbia is another thing I want to set in order. Russkies love to bring this up always and I want to see what actually led up to it. I heard about a UN protection zone being approached by serbian columns but I'm not sure about it.
>>18040365Some guy fucked himself in the ass with a bottle, Albanians were blamed for "raping" him and the rest is history.
>>18040873Reddit history. Tensions in Kosovo began years before thathttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_protests_in_Kosovo
>>18040859>What baffles me are the mutual genocidesThere was only one genocide in the 90s Yugoslav wars, the Srebrenica one. Serbian nationalists often deny it was a genocide though (just a "massacre" — sounds gentler)
>Tito dies in 1980, the party keeps things rolling as intended, then mid 80is crisis hits, slovene and croat parts of the party want to deal with economic and financial problems trough decentralisation and such, belgrade and JNA refuse to give up control and money so they put milošević in power, thats a political crisis and the party fractures, slovenes and croats want out, serbia and montenegro form a block and want to keep chunks of croatia, all sides start playing the nationalism card to get popular support, slovenia gets out theres a few days of war, croatia has a referendum and gets out too, izetbegović acts completely cluless resulting in bosnians getting completely fucked by everibody troughout the war, croatia is dissarmed so serbs think with the TO and JNA together they can take croatia by christmas, everione involved does everithing they can to start a war, shooting starts, JNA officialy never moves in to help local serbs as that would be a act of agression so it never officialy happened, croats end up fighting back, by the time vukovar falls serbs start some serious ethnic clensing that frankly no one expected would get so extreme, croats naturaly return favor and same shit spills into bosna as serbs decide all bosna is serbia and kidnap izetbegović, bosna turns into hell, zagreb supports hercegovians so croats and bosnians go to war too, even the mujahedin come over but it all goes nowhere, sarajevo is under siedge all the time, war goes into stalemate, by 93 belgrade is bankrupt and stops supporting local serbs, by 95 croats win, HV HVO and ABiH march on banja luka but never take it as clinton treathtens to bomb everione, dayton ends the war in bosna leaving a complete mess, serbia was never officialy at war with any one, then milošević starts another round of shit in kosovo so clinton bombs the shit out of belgrade... Titos role in all of this is that he set it up so no one else can realy rule the country and then diedThere
>>18041077Also idk what's so fascinating about ethnic violence and genocide in the Yugo wars. These groups saw each other as existential threats and started killing each other, that's all. Happens in basically every war which has ethnonationalism at the forefront
>>18040859>serbia and montenegro form a blockPOWERFUL Mountain Wreath
>>18040859The short of it is>Republics declare independence>oh shit I'm a Serb or Croat who lives in Bosnia/Croatia>wait, so is most of my village/town, and a friendly country is just across the border to help us>okay, what if we secededAnd as ethnic demographics were messy people or villages (or in the case of Srebrenica, a decent sized town) caught on the wrong side got massacred, I think the nation-state system and a civil war situation leads to that kind of logic. It's done so elsewhere with the nation-state system, but usually well before the 1990s. (If you just let them leave they'll bear arms against you, if you let them stay they're potential traitors behind the lines, etc.)
>>18040365>Where do I even begin with this?Right here.
>>18040365We wanted to have a Yugoslavia from the very start before WW1, however in first yugoslavia Serbs got the the most power and the most developed national identity and they do stuff that radicalizes other nations. However instead of us having a civil war over it back than, Hitler comes and fucks us all. During occupation, anti Serb elements are further radicalized by Nazis, because it makes it easier to control us.Our commies under the leadership of Tito than btfo the germans and build the new Yugoslavia.They do their best to unite yugoslavia with new yugoslav identity based on communism and regional pride. Fast forward to the 90s, communism worldwide is collapsing, Yugoslavia's economy is collapsing, Kosovo is up in arms. All this makes it very easy for nationalists to resurface, remind people of all the shit they didn't like about their neighbors (people here are able to hold generational grudges for centuries, dont worry about that) and for anyone ambitious to rally the people back to nationalism. And as soon as you are talking about breaking up the country, the next problem posed is thousands of minirities scattered all over the former yugoslavia. And thats why you have war.and atrocities done by all sides.>but why did they have to be so brutalbecause we in the Balkans are tribal and primitive when it comes down to it, we even take pride in it.>why would anyone want to break up a country instead of fixing ityou have to realize that privatization is insanely profitable for whoever is doing it. Communist countries going to capitalism are like giant pinatas for whoever is in power and does it first.>why did it work so well under Titobecause economy was good, and because people who didn't want it to work were not allowed a voice>>18040372also this
>>18041106>Titos role in all of this is that he set it up so no one else can rule rule the country and then diedhe was actually even more retarded, he set it up so there is 4 out of 8 republics/provinces with a seat in the presidency have an overwhelming Serbian minority, meaning its only a matter of time before Serbia takes control of them.Its overwhelmingly retarded to me how He and Kardelj, both haters of Nationalism managed to dream this up and not realize what they have done.
>>18043469>because we in the Balkans are tribal and primitive when it comes down to it, we even take pride in itLiterally every war is brutal, Balkans or not
>>18045047not as brutal as yugoslav wars.I may be biased because i live here, but it may also be that I have more experience of how it was.Sure every war is brutal, but one thing is being brutal because its a war and the other is paramilitary units marching into your neighboring village while singing about how tonight they are eating meat because they will be butchering your people like pigs.Not many things in western front or ww1 come close to shit that was going on here and all this in addition to the fact that everybody was indeed getting along pretty well ~10 years before it I would say it is one of the most fucked conflicts in European history and definitely the worst thing to happen to the Balkans since Ottoman occupation.
>>18040365you can research all you want, you'll never find clear answers. it's like movie rashomon
>>18040365It was Serbs saying borders should be redrawn and based on ethnicity and NATO and everyone else shrieking like autists and saying no they shouldn't and they won. The end.
