How exactly were the natives disowned? the country seems to have been entire country Africanized. Not just culturally, but genetically and the Africanization does not stop there, an etymological analysis reveals that Cuban Spanish even has a non-marginal Yoruba substrateHow exactly did the Spanish let this happen? Lack of property? And I wonder how exactly the senteria managed to consolidate itself in this way, and I don't necessarily mean "how" in the sense of the practice of camouflaging themselves as Catholic saints, but because there apparently was no kind of combat from the Spanish in relation to this. They were extremely indifferent to people using their religion in a "blasmefic" way with magical blacks.
>>18043729>How exactly were the natives disowned?They died. Also, the word you were looking for is "dispossessed." Not "disowned."
>>18043735Yes, exactly. I'm Italian and English is my second language.>They diedWasn't it an intentional massacre?
>>18043729We must keep in mind that Cuba was like Egypt to the Romans: a big, giant, useless plantation for food That's why the Spanish presence is so marginal on the island, and there weren't many priests in Cuba. So you get the idea, and Anon is right>>18043735The natives died out, but because of the mixture, it's a shame.
>>18043729>Lack of property? We have more architectural structures in Cuba than in most Central American countries. Cuba fell quickly because it was the first to ask for concessions from the Spanish colony. It would be great if the Americans took Cuba.
>>18043743>>18043756Native Cuba ancestry is a bit more divergent b/c Archaic ancestry persisted in Western Cuba to a greater extent than elsewhere post Arawaks arrival. >>18043729Let me think... maybe because it was the place with the highest number of black populations?
>>18043780ThisThe number of slaves in USA increased ~350% from the beginning of the Haitian Revolution until Emancipation. Cuba saw an even greater increase (actually enslaving some Haitians and using Haitian sugar infrastructure).
>>18043802Cuban slavery was even worse than in Haiti. It lasted until 1886, the number of black slaves in Cuba probably peaked between the 1840s and 1850s, given the high mortality rates.
>>18043771>It would be great if the Americans took Cuba.With the way their demographics are looking? They will be begging to become an american protectorate of some kind by 2050.
>>18043881Based
I used to research this formally. When explorers got to the Caribbean, it was a free for all. Since it was the first place discovered, no sort of legal protections were in place for natives and the native population was decimated by disease and overworking, and it wasn’t very big to begin with. Someone said Spains presence in Cuba was marginal, which is retarded. It was literally Spains longest-lasting colony and the site from which all of the gold in the Americas and silver acquired in Asia was shipped to Europe, so it was extremely militarily fortified and commercially important. After Hatian revolution, it basically became the aspiring replacement for mega-intensity slavery, and basically so many Africans came in in such short time that their customs survived. The inquisition did try Africans for witchcraft, but was bad at it and Africans were sorted into sort of religious “fraternities” based on their language where Spanish were not allowed to meddle. The idea was to help Christianize them, but it means individual languages and religions survived really well. Initial decimated native population + huge influx of slaves + the biggest migration of Spanish outside Argentina and Uruguay, any native influence got completely mixed away. In the 1800-1900s migration to Cuba was massive, I don’t really understand why OP thinks Cuba is more African than it is. Most Cubans are still white, and whiter than most Latin Americans. It’s more than the black influence is like more “potent” because of the aforementioned. Most of this described is exactly the case in Brazil, too.
>>18043985The souther US sounds positively idyllic compared to the carribean in terms of slave living conditions
>>18043985>The inquisition did try Africans for witchcraft, but was bad at it and Africans were sorted into sort of religious “fraternities” based on their language where Spanish were not allowed to meddle. The idea was to help Christianize them, but it means individual languages and religions survived really well.Not happened
>>18043985>whiteLmaoI was just reading about the conditions the Spanish imposed on their slaves in Cuba. The imported almost 3x as many slaves as America, and worked so many to death that there are only about 1 million blacks today in Cuba. Damn.On selling machinery, the book to read is Freedom's Mirror. Somehow, Haitians have managed to spread the idea the Haitian Revolution instilled "terror" into other countries in the Americas. The reality is slavery exploded after the Revolution, especially in Cuba and US
>>18044133yeah the names of the units I gave you I just pulled out of my dick mongolic ass nerdhttps://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabildos_de_naci%C3%B3nalso anything related to the inquisition in the americas europe filipines or wherever is some of the most well-documented shit ever
>>18044136>white I more mean not black. if you consider white cubans white or not for this purpose it doesnt matter I meant more in the times legal systembut back in the day they would have been more white, just spanish people basically. cuba has gotten darker with time and since revolution
>>18044136but yeah north american slavery was not big scale compared to other places, its really strange that most of the greviance talk about slavery comes from the US considering.I think theres more than a million black people in cuba today, probably significantly more. like a third of cubans are straight up black. Im sure more died than the US but the legal protections were better than the US, but remember in latin america even today whats on the books is not practice. but yeah, post haitian revolution countries grappled to become the next big sugar market. Cuba pretty much took over and it was the last big slave import boom, also why cuba has more full 100% black people than most sort of mixed latin countries like DR.
>>18044133Oh i realized I forgot to put an entire post I wrote here but yeah the fraternities are called cabildos de nacion. There are also documented investigations from the time. In one, authorities respond to reports of something wrong in one of the cabildos of africans during an otherwise normal catholic saint day celebration, and when they go in the meeting building they find goat skeletons in pots and all types of ritual stuff.the leader of the cabildo they put on trial,when trying him, find that the africans actually saw him and referred to him as "king"and in their mind had their own little yoruba kingdom going on underground. name of the guy is Juan Nepomuceno Prieto. re the inquisition being "bad" at stamping out african paganism, the trial logs of the inquisiiton in cartagena colombia are very well preserved and documented. That was the biggest slave port, and when you read, you see that they would try africans for superstition alot and then basically say they dont know any better lets just catechize them more. Meanwhile if they caught a muslim african or just a jew from europe they would be really harsh.
Cuba was actually one of the whiter latin American countries before Castro. He imported a shit ton of Haitians. I maintain that failing to annex Cuba was one of the biggest foreign policy mistakes America has ever made.
>>18044302Just annexing other countries was not and is not the american way.
>>18043729>etymological analysis reveals that Cuban Spanish even has a non-marginal Yoruba substrateThat's ridiculous. There are words of African and Native origin in use, but they are marginal. >>18043985>In the 1800-1900s migration to Cuba was massive, I don’t really understand why OP thinks Cuba is more African than it is. Most Cubans are still white, and whiter than most Latin Americans. It’s more than the black influence is like more “potent” because of the aforementioned. Most of this described is exactly the case in Brazil, too.Wrong. Cuba is 30% criollo, most Cubans in Cuba are NOT white. Most whites left for the US, and nowadays the Cubans that are coming to the US are mulatos (just like Venezuelan immigrants used to be all white, but not the racial abominations are coming en masse).>>18044322Nigger the U.S. annexed multiple territories that used to be "other countries". Not annexing Cuba was a major blunder.
>>18044341It was a blunder, but how could the U.S. have predicted that Cuba would eventually become a hostile communist state? Cuba didn’t really need to be annexed by the U.S. anyway, they had a good deal with Cuba before 1959. What the U.S. should’ve done was support Batista’s Government with a U.S. expeditionary force against Castro’s rebels much like they did with South Vietnam against the Viet Cong.
>>18043729The Caribbean is the first place Spaniards set up as a major administrative hub, so it bore the brunt of colonization. Most of the natives were worked to death and then replaced with blacks.
>>18043743>Wasn't it an intentional massacre?it was a combination of Old World disease ravaging the natives, as well as them being turned into chattel slaves and worked to death. Really, working the natives to death wasn't the policy of the Crown, but colonial governors seeking to maximalize short-term profits felt like they were far enough away from direct oversight to get away with it. I would say though that the burden of disease was also a big reason the slaves died in such numbers in the first place.
>>18044255They always have been non_white
>>18043985I know you believe this nonsense, but it doesn't seem very intuitive.For a very simple reason: if the preservation of language and even cultural elements are responsible for the proliferation of peoples' respective ethnic religions in a context of conversion to a new belief system, why didn't this happen in Europe? The vast majority of European languages weren't replaced by Latin (liturgical languages) or Aramaic. For example, the Irish still spoke their language, as did Germanic and Slavic peoples. And note that all these places I mentioned still exhibit a certain cultural continuity, whether in the form of dance, clothing, or even myths. We don't see, for example, the Inquisitional Church repudiating how a city in medieval Germany was using a Catholic saint X as a representative of a pagan god Y. What happened in Cuba didn't happen in Europe, and it didn't happen in the Muslim world. I'm not denying your sources, I'm just saying you've oversimplified.
>>18044284Catholicucks couldn't erase simple marginal and primitive cults lmao What a weak religion.
>>18043729OP it's simple, the natives got ravaged in a few decades after 1492 by Old World disease. 80-90% of them died, then some more died from being worked. The few that survived got absorbed into the criollo gene pool. At this point, they ceased to exist. Then African slaves were imported to replace the Indians. There was racial segregation and racism in Cuba before 1959, and in 1959 the island was 75% white. After 1959 the communists promoted anti-racism and race mixing, and since the revolution most white Cubans have been moving out, leading to the island being under 30% white.Given this, of course santeria is going to be most popular. Also, what is known as "Cuban music" is really the music of the mulato-negro, not of the criollo. The culture of the criollo is pretty much gone after nearly 70 years of communism and mass dispossession, displacement, and emigration of whites, not to mention the general trend of the modern world (everyone is losing their culture more or less).
>>18043729>How exactly were the natives disowned? majority died of plague and the remainder was worked to death. They were, essentially, exterminated. It's mostlky just trace DNA now.>Not just culturally, but genetically and the Africanization does not stop there, an etymological analysis reveals that Cuban Spanish even has a non-marginal Yoruba substrateThat tends to happens when most of your population is Yoruba or closely related, yeah.>How exactly did the Spanish let this happen? It was profitable. Also, 'let'? They did it, Ambrogino. They consciously populated the island with african slaves because it made them money. It made economic sense. Your ideology is very new; as old as the U.N. The idea that Niggers/Asians/etc are a pest you cannot let spread is no older than 1950.>but because there apparently was no kind of combat from the Spanish in relation to thisThey didn't care, usually. And those that did were often too stupid to see through the camouflage.It would be much more costly to take the nigger's magic away than to just let them have it.
>>18043729this is how exactlyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend
>>18044467>>18044413does it all come down to incompetence?
>>180444132/3 of all your arguments are fake
>>18044413Cool story Panchito. For the record, most of that he says is true. However, his part about Cuba being 75% white and now being 30% huwhite is probably false. For one, the Cuban census says today that the island is around sixty something white. If you believe the census lies, however, why do you believe the pre-communist era census?Imo, it's counter productive to say some spic shithole is or ever was 'white'. Even though it's a wetbacks' favourite thing to do. >>18044627What incompetence? No one in power ever cared about making Cuba a hecking Huwhite Island.Everyone did this. Filling Islands with niggers to make money was very popular. Hell, the british even did it with Indians and Chinks, all around the world.
>>18043729They were chuds who didn't like diversity which is why they died because inbreeding killed them via diseases(WHO says international travel isn't a vector for disease transfer so before you blame Europeans think twice).
>>18044341White cubans come to the US everyday, but yes most coming now are about the same color as venezuelans. But you can find fresh off the boat, barely literate tax leech cubans in Miami that are just spanish people with tattoos and veneers. Cuba is big, espeically in rural places most cubans are white but yes its not the U.S. definition of white. They are of some mixed background msot people by now, but by latin american standards cant be called any other race but white. If you ask most cubans, theyll say most of cuba is white and in any case this makes it whiter than most latin american countries and the rest of the caribean
>>18044389if you are a schizo who does not think spanish immigrants are white OK, but the single largest chunk of people in cuba are spanish immigrants and their descendants.
>>18044400What are you talking about. The period where mass importation of slaves post haiti, the inquisiton, and slavery itself overlapped is like 70 years and occured within the last two centuries.Europe was christianized in a bunch of different, much older, and longer processes. You will be suprised to learn that the inquisiton in Europe had work to do, many times with squashing out folk beliefs in rural areas that predated Chrsitianity. And then just centuries of cultural adaptation.And of course it happened in the muslim world. "muslims" in africa do the same exact rituals as african "catholics" in cuba in many cases lol. This simple: slaves were given spaces to basically worship their old ways with other slaves who already shared their same belief from africa. In the U.S., a slave from the congo wouldnt have that same opportunity to do this with a slave from yoruba nigeria. What other explanation do u even suggest?
>>18044409Who cares to. It literally doesnt matter. most people who do these african rites still consider themsleves catholics lol its syncretic. Its not like they just ignored catholicism and kept doing the exact same shit they did in africa, they just kept some stuff.
>>18044413the culture of the "criollo" definitely exists schizo cuba is a big island and rural places look completely different from what you are envisioning. The entire "Guajiro" subculture (punto guajiro, controversias, decimas) is pretty much the life for alot of rural cubans and it sort of just comes unchanged from the canary islands and andalusia. Popular cuban music does have african influence though. Guess what type of music is popular in the U.S.?
>>18044720who even cares who white cuba is or was - it has no bearing on it being a utopian paradise. Every spanish immigrant coming to Cuba was leaving a country that was poor, politically unstable, and lazy as fuck. Its why argentina is also not that great despite being a "white" utopia. Before the EU, and especially before the 1920s or so, southern europe was a shithole and literally poorer than Cuba, so why expect those immigrants to make anything better than the society they came from?
>>18043729They lowkey reknotted the cuban injuns into maybe-africans
>>18044720>No one in power ever cared about making Cuba a hecking Huwhite Island.You're a moron. Cuba, along with every single Latin American country went through a period of "blanqueamiento" after the end of slavery when the criollos understood that the era of slavery was over and that it is impossible to nation-build with mulatos and negros. Tons of Europeans were being imported, which is why Brazil and Argentina have millions of Italians and Germans. Cuba remained heavily Spanish and received almost exclusively Spanish immigration because of the strong ties that remained with Spain regardless of 1898.You should really shut the fuck up when you know nothing. As for "panchito", you're either a manolo that descends from peasants or some other white trash that also descends from peasants, so shut the fuck up.>>18044913>>18044945Cuba in 2025 is not white no matter how much you cope. It's a mulato shithole, and that's exactly why even if communism ended today it would still remain a shithole. "Cuban" culture is all negrified; reggaeton, santeria, etc. The old criollo Spanish Catholic Cuban culture is completely gone and the white diaspora is going to end up absorbed by Americans in the US and by Spanish in Spain (the two main diasporas).
>>18044932You didn't make an effort to understand my argument. Let's try again:Your language argument doesn't make much sense because it isn't applied elsewhere, anon, it wasn't in Europe, and it doesn't occur in most Muslim countries. It did happen, but the reasons you mentioned for this syncretism cannot be explained by those mentioned
>>18044936So Catholicuck accepts them as hermanos? Lmao
>>18044341>Nigger the U.S. annexed multiple territories that used to be "other countries". Not annexing Cuba was a major blunder.Apart from the mexican territories what else?
>>18045135Lol the white diaspora of Cubans in Miami isn’t being absorbed by ANYONE. You are too poor and probably cardboard colored yourself to afford a plane ticket. In Spain yes, but in Miami Cubans barely even come across Americans and have their own worlds. In fact they could repopulate Cuba and invest if that became an option.If reggeaton is ur bar for a country being negrified even Spain is done lol. Cuba was never a Anglo Saxon paradise because Hispanic people know how to adopt other cultures without having an incel attack like you. The average rural Cuban is still a normal, simple white peasant person but again you cannot afford to see the world
>>18045338It wasn’t applied elsewhere because the factors that made it possible did not present elsewhere. Except for the fact that it did occur elsewhere, like Brasil, but just ignore that.
>>18045340Some do some don’t. I’m not a fan but some do show up and do mass and every sacrament normally and then just do wierd shit at home one weekend. Some absolutely are not Christian, it’s a spectrum basically as to how African ur belief is but even normal Catholic families may have some superstitions they don’t even realize they learned from their santero friends. But a family who left Cuba around the revolution usually has nothing to do w it.
The Spanish Crown officially outlawed native slavery in 1542, but by then Cuba’s Indigenous labor base was already shattered. Survivors were forcibly relocated into towns. In effect, the Indigenous were not simply displaced like in North America; they were biologically and culturally absorbed until their identity ceased to exist.
>>18045710You lost
