This is what Arabs think of everyday
>>18044480Definitely not. Only the Maghrebis give a shit actuallyThe Roman equivalent to the Arabs is the Abbassid Caliphate, what the Mongols did was far more mournable than losing Iberia, the Mongols practically guaranteed only Turco-Mongols would rule the Middle East all the to the 1900s
>>18044480Nobody besides Moroccan who gloat over conquering their rival neighbor and Iberians who consider the reconquesta to be their founding story cares about this shithole. Ironically the peak of medieval Spain was under Arab Umayyad rule when Cordoba rivaled Constantinople at a population of 450,000.
>>18044487The Abbasssid no longer existed in any meaningful way by the time the Mongols rolled around. They had long since collapsed into a menagerie of independent Kingdoms that "acknowledged" the Caliph in Baghdad the same way the Kings of Europe "acknowledged" the Pope.
Al andalus is their rhodesia the muslim roman empire is their first 3 big caliphates
>>18044533>the same way the Kings of Europe "acknowledged" the Pope.Kek, are /his/lets really trying to imply the pope's seat had no power? Fuck this gay board
>>18044480Saudilattoes and other ME trashes tend to self-insert as Andalusians both because they never produced something as great and also as a revenge fantasy against whites, much like Niggers do.This is, of course, entirely unfounded, as genetic evidence shows that the ruling class and most of the population were made up of Islamized Phoenicians, with the few ME monkeys there being Junds slave soldiers whose status did not differ much that of the White slaves.
Nafris will wank everyday over their 700 years long colonial rule in Spain, and then proceed to whine about the few decades of European colonial rule in their countries.
>>18044794>because they never produced something as great Medieval Egypt, Levant and Iraq were all major centers of power and culture>Islamized PhoeniciansIs this bait?
>>18044895Within the Islamic world, only Baghdad and its immediate surrounding surpassed al-Andalus in terms of urbanization and wealth. The Levant, Maghreb, Egypt, and the rest of Iraq were dirt poor, as they are today, and simply flyover zones between Baghdad and Phoenician Andalusia. Additionally, we lack ancient Y-DNA from medieval Baghdad, so we cannot determine the precise racial background of its inhabitants. For all we know, they could have been Andalusians or Persians.>Is this bait?It is a fact.
>>18044944>The Levant, Maghreb, Egypt, and the rest of Iraq were dirt poorAbsolutely retarded, Cairo was the largest city in the world at one point.>For all we know, they could have been Andalusians or Persians>andalusians in baghdadYep, its bait alright.>It is a fact.I'll bite then. The Phoenicians did not exist in the middle ages you fucking retard. Islamic Iberia was ruled by Arabs.
>>18044992>Absolutely retarded, Cairo was the largest city in the world at one point.When?>The Phoenicians did not exist in the middle ages you fucking retard.The Phoenicians carried a specific marker, the dominance of said marker among Andalusians indicate they were Islamized Phoenicians which comes to no surpise as Andalusia itself was based on Phoenician Beatica, and Cordoba, Sevilla and so on were all Phoenician cities.>Islamic Iberia was ruled by Arabs.Debunked by genetics, sorry but you wuz not Andaluzianz. >Yep, its bait alright.No that's just a fair assumption, considering the lack of data. And quite frankly, it its quite certain that once we do have Medieval samples from Baghdad they will either turn out to be Andalusian (Phoenician) or Persian migrants rather than tent dwelling Bedouins.
>>18044480>>18044487>>18044533From what I've seen, most Muslims are more upset over Iran becoming Shia than Spain banning Islam. It's like their own mental Constantinople.
>>18045003>When?14th century. Estimate put it at 400,000-500,000 so outside of maybe some Chinese cities, it was more or less the largest in West Eurasia.>The Phoenicians carried a specific markerFirst off, the Phoenicians were fucking gone by the high middle ages, their culture and language were extinct so unless you are talking about their medieval Levantine descendants then its nonsense. Second, Haplogroups=/=ancestry. Unless we have autosomal DNA samples that prove the Andalusian elites were actually Phoenician (which would essentially make them Levantine), then your claim is baseless. Islamic Iberia was ruled by the Umayyads and we know of their lineage.>Debunked by genetics, Haploautism doesn't "debunk" anything.>No that's just a fair assumptionIt isn't considering Levantines barely have any history being involved with Baghdad. Are you daft? Baghdad was mainly populated by Arabs and Persians, not Phoenicians.>rather than tent dwelling BedouinsAh yes the meme of all Arabs being bedouins.
>>18045013Its been said before but most Arabs let alone Muslims don't care that much about Al-Andalus. It didn't leave much of a legacy in the wider Muslim world.
>>18045018>14th century. Estimate put it at 400,000-500,000 so outside of maybe some Chinese cities, it was more or less the largest in West Eurasia.Source? >First off, the Phoenicians were fucking gone by the high middle ages, their culture and language were extinct so unlessDNA evidence doesn't support your claim. >you are talking about their medieval Levantine descendants then its nonsenseGenetics show that in the Medieval period, the only descendants of Phoenicians were in Andalus and Sicily and perhaps North Africa albeit we currently lack DNA evidence. As for the Levant, it was populated by Bedouins rather than Phoenicians. The two UEB individuals fell between modern genetic variation in the Middle East and Arabian Peninsula and are shifted towards the latter (Fig. S2). Further, to obtain a better understanding of the regional variation, we conducted a second PCA, limited to 37 modern groups from the Middle East, Arabian Peninsula and Caucasus (Fig. 2). While the UEB individuals did not cluster with any published ancient Levantine individuals, the closest ancient groups were Bronze Age Canaanites8 and groups from Neolithic, Chalcolithic and Bronze Age Levant1,7. Among modern human populations, the UEB individuals are positioned between groups known to originate from/inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, i.e. Saudi, Yemenite Jews and Bedouin A and B (Fig. 2). https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03508-4>It isn't considering Levantines barely have any history being involved with Baghdad. Are you daft? Baghdad was mainly populated by Arabs and Persians, not Phoenicians.It's just wishful thinking without any DNA evidence to support it.>Ah yes the meme of all Arabs being bedouins.That's not a meme this is the traditional Arab lifestyle.
>>18045054>Source?André Raymond's study Cairo's Area and Population in the Early Fifteenth Century>DNA evidence doesn't support your claim.We barely have any DNA samples of Andalusian elites.>the only descendants of Phoenicians were in Andalus and Sicily and perhaps North AfricaThose descendants would have been completely mixed away by the native Iberians and Romans. Suggesting that most of Islamic Iberia's population was Phoenician is retarded.>As for the Levant, it was populated by Bedouins rather than Phoenicians.It was populated by Levantines (Lebanese, Jews, Palestinians, Druze ect). This meme that bedouins replaced the pre-Islamic populations needs to end,>It's just wishful thinking without any DNA evidence to support it.Its called occam's razor. Claims like Phoenicians being the majority in Iberia or Baghdad can be safely dismissed as hotep tier nonsense.>That's not a meme this is the traditional Arab lifestyle.It is because the most important Arabs (Muhammad, Abu Bakr, Muawiya, ect were all apart of a settled Arab population. By your dumbass logic, towns like Basra and Kairouan wasn't founded by Arabs because hurr durr Arabs were all bedouins.
>>18044992>>18045003It's hilarious seeing 80 IQ bedouin monkey and 75 IQ nafri monkey fighting over who wuz al andalus when the matter has been pretty much settled since forever both by genetics and historiography : they were 100 IQ iberians
>>18045072Al-Andalus can be claimed by native Iberians, Arabs and Moroccans just fine, its retarded to think a historical region that saw many rulers is somehow exclusive. And why the fuck are you attacking me when that idiot unironically thinks most of Al-Andalus was populated by Phoenicians instead of native Iberians.
>>18044480This is one of the FAKEST map in History. 99% of that """muslim""" territory had ZERO muslims. Muslims (white berebers) ONLY lived in 6-7 cities in the half south and only did summer raids to the half north (that is what the map pretends to represent).AlAndalus was just a few city-states in the half south. They did not have a central government or anything similar. They did not even control rural Andalucia (95% of it remained totally christian).People don´t get that the muslims were a 2-3% of the total population. Just like the Romans in Britain and northAfrica (a 2-3% of the total population).Maps are created by historians (and that AlAndalus map has been invented by a retard on reddit out of his ass) to represent a time in history.Look this is the previous map of Iberia: vandals and suebi represented like 2% of the total population. According to this map it looks like they were all over Iberia and ruled it. Also FAKE.
>>18044823700 years??Spain was controlled by muslims for ZERO years. They never controlled all of Spain as you can see in the map. And half of Spain was free of muslim presence in 200 years.
NorthAfrica was ruled 400 years by the Romans yet we don´t see people saying that northafricans were romans or italian. I am sure that 99% of the people living in the northafrican part of the roman empire never saw a roman in those 400 years, and they remained the same.So the same for the AlAndalus fake maps. 95% of the people in AlAndalus never saw a muslim in those centuries. It is all fake.
>>18045078Ok sorry then.
>>18045068>André Raymond's study Cairo's Area and Population in the Early Fifteenth CenturyI'll have to check it out.>We barely have any DNA samples of Andalusian elites.We have quite a lot >>18044944 (You), and it has utterly disproven your claim. Barely any J1 there and found only in small isolated villages rather than major urban centers like Cordoba, Valencia and Sevilla. Obviously low status.>Those descendants would have been completely mixed away by the native Iberians and Romans.As the genetic profile I posted in >>18045054 (You) shows, they were still heavily Phoenician and only minimally mixed with the local populace they ruled over. Moreover, paternal DNA cannot be "mixed out.">This meme that bedouins replaced the pre-Islamic populations needs to end,We have DNA evidence showing that the Medieval Levant was inhabited by Bedouins. The entire population of this region was exterminated.>Among modern human populations, the UEB individuals are positioned between groups known to originate from/inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, i.e. Saudi, Yemenite Jews and Bedouin A and B (Fig. 2). https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03508-4>Its called occam's razor. Claims like Phoenicians being the majority in Iberia or Baghdad can be safely dismissed as hotep tier nonsense.Well, Occam's razor in the case of Iberia support my position rather than yours, since Córdoba, Sevilla, Toledo, and so on were all founded by Phoenicians, not to mention, that genetics has already settled this issue and confirmed they were indeed Phoenicians. As for Bedouins being the founder of Baghdad, that is highly speculative. If we apply Occam's razor, it is more reasonable to assume its founders came from the civilized peoples already inhabiting the region, such as Persians or Assyrians, and certainly not Arabs, who at that time were still tent dwelling nomads. Still, without DNA evidence, this remains speculative.ftfm
>>18045096>and confirmed they were indeed PhoeniciansPhoenicians went extinct several centuries before al andalus happened hply shit
>>18045091>We have quite a lot No we don't. You are relying on haplogroups when autosomal DNA is way more useful in determining which groups plot with who.>they were still heavily Phoenician and only minimally mixed with the local populace they ruled over.No they weren't because the vast majority of the population was native Iberian (read: European) with some Arab/Berber minorities. This is literally obvious to everyone.>The entire population of this region this was exterminated.Imagine believing this. It is logistically impossible for some nomads to wholesale exterminate a densely populated and urbanized region like the Levant, completely out of the question. Not to mention there is nothing to actually support such a claim, no historical records, no mass graves, nothing.>Well, Occam's razor in the case of Iberia support my position rather than yours, No it doesn't. It takes a massive leap in logic to assume an ancient sea faring Levantine population were the main population of Islamic Iberia. Not a single historian or even person in this thread actually thinks that. Its hotep tier.>As for Bedouins the founder of BaghdadI did not say Bedoins founded Baghdad it was founded by the Abbasids who commissioned the the Persian Barmakid family and the town was ultimately populated by Arabs and Persians.>and certainly not Arabs, who at that time were still tent dwelling nomads.Those "tent dewlling nomads" founded towns like Basra, Kufa, Fustat, and Kairouan all before Baghdad was founded
>>18044480I never knew how much Arabs yearned to LARP in a restored Andalus until I started hearing their rants. These phrases think absolutely the Mosque of Cordoba and the street lamps and gardens every day. It’s just like that scene with Prince Faisal in Lawrence of Arabia.
>>18045054Shut the FUCK UP.>>>/sci/GO BACK.
>>18045054north_africa_punic are berber samples retard
>>18045105>No we don't.We do and it supports my position rather than yours. Coping won't change this. >No they weren't because the Because I said so isn't an argument. Genetic again support my position rather than yours. >Imagine believing this. Again DNA support my position rather than yours. >No it doesn't. It does. If you knew the basic history you'd understand that. And AGAIN DNA supports me rather than you.>and the town was ultimately populated by Arabs and PersiansSpeculative we need DNA evidence to know its exact racial make up. >Those "tent dewlling nomads" founded towns Baghdad was foundedFounded by Persians by your own admission but ultimately speculative without DNA evidence. >BasraUtterly mutted but way more R1b & E1b than J1. Likely founded by Assyrians based on DNA. The most common haplogroups in Basrah are R1b (20.5%), E1b1b (14.0%), G2a (11.0%) and J1 (10.8%), and 17% are (J2a1b (5%), J2a1h (2%), J2a1 x j2a1-bh (4%), J2b (6%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8999105/>Kufa, We don't have DNA so it's speculative at best. >FustatAgain we don't DNA so it's speculative. >Kairouan Founded by Phoenicians and still predominantly E-M81 rather than J1. The Arabs from Kairouan revealed 73.47% of E-M81https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95144-x
>>18045117>The inbred sandnigger with reading comprehension is back
>>18045122Haplotists and archaeogenetics fucktards truly are penis cancer.
>>18045122>unironically thinks islamic iberia's population was phoenician instead of european>everything is speculative unless we have haplogroup evidence despite the fact that we have literal historical records of those townsYeah forget it, you are either trolling or genuinely stupid.
>>18045013>Muslims are upset that Iran remained Muslim
>>18045129>unironically thinks islamic iberia's population was phoenician instead of europeanYes. See >>18044944, the Phoenician contribution represented by E-M81 is dominant, while the Iberian contribution represented by R1b is minimal. Iberians were just slaves just as they were at the time of Carthage and Rome.Similarly, Arabian contribution represented by J1 non-existent to minimal. >everything is speculative unless we have haplogroup evidence despite the fact that we have literal historical records of those townsSorry but DNA is the ultimate arbiter of truth when it comes to history, not mythological books.
>>18045134>doesn't know about the Shia / Sunni splitMan your head is going to explode once you figure out Muslims hate each other as much as they hate non muslims.
18045137>haploautism>DNA being more important than historical recordsJump off a cliff already, shitposter-kun.
>>18045142Facts are more important than opinions yes. Cry me a river.
>>18045152Haploautism isn't "facts"
>>18045157Haplogroups are fixed genetic mutations present in the human genome, identified and classified by scientists. They are rooted in both science and human genome rather than the fever dreams of wannabe Andalusians such as tent-dwelling Bedouins or mud-hut-dwelling Iberians.>HaploautismAlso, you keep saying that I only use haplogroups, but I’ve also used auDNA to demonstrate that Andalusians were autosomally Phoenician/Punic and that Medieval Levantines were replaced by Bedouins here >>18045054.
>>18045164Thank you chatGPT.>andalusians were all totally north african and arabs committed genocide in the levantTell us more tall tales Nafri anon.
>>18045170I take it you have now come back and admit defeat. I accept your concession.
>>18045178Shut up before I inform Spanish authorities to deport your dumbass back to Morocco.
>>18045183Concession Status: Accepted.
>>18045183Billy lives in Spain?
>>18045197(You)>>18045198Who?
>>18045199>Who?The Certified Dip of Shit who has been harassing me across boards about "bustyboys" for like God knows how long.
>>18044480Does that include its famous gay blacked poetry?
>>18045199Soonoon
>>18045224>hebrewMore like Canaanite
>>18045152you must be baiting.
>>18045252Phoenician spoken by the descendants of Asher son of Jacob son Isaac son o Abraham descendent of Eber Samaritan "Hebrew" spoken by the descendants of Joseph son of Jacob son of Isaac son of Abraham descendent of Eber Jewish "Hebrew" spoken by the descendants of Judah son of Jacob son of Isaac son of Abraham descendent of Eber Edomite spoken by the descendants of Esau son of Isaac son of Abraham descendent of Eber Moabite spoken by the descendants of Moab son of Lot son of Haran descendant of Eber Ammonite spoken by the descendants of Ammon son Lot son of Haran descendant of EberAll roads point to Eber
>>18045140>splitseems inconsequential when only like 10% of muslims are shias and iran alone accounts for like 80% of them
>>18044480That would be the Ottoman Empire they were literally the third Rome.
>>18045570>the Syrian civil war seems inconsequential
