Hellenism is not a "faith."We do not need faith because we know the gods are real. Evidence of the gods is everywhere.Christians, however, need faith because evidence for their religion is non-existent. Christians believe because they want to believe, not because it's true.
Then why does nobody believe in them anymore?
>>18052007Just because the masses believe something doesn’t automatically make it true. The divine truth doesn’t care what the majority of mortals think. The gods existed before humans did and will continue to exist long after humans go extinct.
Saying Hellenism is “known” and Christianity requires faith is flat-out wrong. Faith is not believing without proof, it’s accepting truths that go beyond what we can fully see, guided by reason and experience. Polytheism offers no real evidence: rivers, storms, or crops only “prove” Zeus or Demeter if you already assume their stories. There’s no objective link between the gods and reality. Reason itself points to one ultimate being. Multiple Hellenic gods are contradictory and explain nothing about creation, morality, or order. Christianity is grounded in history and reality: Christ lived, died, and rose; miracles, prophecy, and the sacraments show his truth. Faith is rational assent to truths beyond simple observation, not a wish or fantasy. Polytheism pretends certainty where there is none. Saying Christians “believe because they want to” ignores centuries of evidence and argument. Christianity doesn’t need blind belief because it simply requires recognizing truth that cannot be fully grasped by sight alone. Hellenism claims knowledge but only has assumption. In contrast, Christianity asks for faith because truth is deeper than myth.
>>18052027>explain nothing about creation, morality, or order.They do. Read Hesiod’s Theogony>mUh ChRiSt1. Jesus never resurrected. The disciples stole the body during the night.2. Jesus does not have the power to grant you eternal life. He was just a mortal rabbi that is currently being tortured in Tartarus for his crimes against Olympus.3. Yahweh is not ruler of heaven and earth but a Semitic monster of chaos and destruction.Your religion requires you to have faith that the lies Jews taught you are true, whereas it is obvious to anyone who hasn’t been brainwashed that the entire New Testament is Jewish subversion with precisely zero evidence for any of their fantastical claims.
>>18051965Show me the golden city on Mt. Olympus
>>18052032>crimes against OlympusNot a thing. Christianity has raped you so hard you cannot imagine a world outside its framework.
>>18052027Your "god" Yahweh is not a real god like Zeus is.Your "god" Yahweh is Typhon, the embodiment of chaos and father of all monsters.The bible itself proves this>It claims Yahweh will try to destroy this world (Book of Revelation)>It claims Yahweh is jealous of other gods (Deuteronomy 4:24 and Joshua 24:19)>It claims Yahweh is the "destroyer of nations" (Jeremiah 4:7)There's also the fact that Chaeremon, Apion, and Manetho all linked Yahweh to Set, the Egyptian god of chaos, destruction, and foreigners, whom later Egyptians equated with Typhon.You accuse the Olympians of being "demons", but the reality is that the only "demon" here is Yahweh whom you worship.This is why your "god" forbids images of him, because he looks like this.
>>18052037Christianity was structurally integrated from the remains of Pagan intellectualism, producing a Frankensteined anti-intellectual monstrosity.
>>18052032>Hesiod’s TheogonyPoetry, not cosmology. It offers mythic genealogy, not explanation. There’s no causal principle, no metaphysical coherence, no unifying logos. The myths contradict themselves because they were never meant to be literal cosmology.>“disciples stole the body” gimickRoman and Jewish authorities could have ended Christianity instantly by producing the corpse. Instead, they admitted the tomb was empty. Those same disciples faced torture and death without recanting, not behavior typical of men protecting a lie.>Christ is “a mortal rabbi in Tartarus"If Olympus were real, its gods would still be finite. That is, beings within creation, not beyond it. A god that can be born, fight, and die is by definition not God.
>more spam how exciting
bro monday night football is on
>>18052047And it so utterly dominates you, you can't even see it.
>>18052051When did the Roman and Jewisy authorities admit the tomb was empty?
>>18052056I think you missed the point. Christians are dominated by pre-Christian thought and don't even realize it. Christianity is effectively imperial cult worship with Stoicism and Dionysian rites sprinkled in. It's pure paganism. Even the OT was written by Greeks though.
>>18052059When they claimed the disciples stole His body.
>>18052051>not behavior typical of men protecting a lie.By that logic, Daesh was correct since they were willing to blow themselves up for their beliefs. Same with the whole Jonestown shit since every including Jim Jones committed suicide at the end.>god that can be born, fight, and die is by definition not GodIf Zeus or any of the gods had died, the whole reality would've collapsed and we wouldn't exist. Believing that gods can die at all is a Reddit tier interpretation.Gods don’t die when humans stop worshipping them.What does the sea lose by not being worshipped? What does nature lose by not being worshipped? What does wisdom lose by not being worshipped?When we stopped worshiping the gods, they merely withdrew their blessings. Restore their sacred rites and their blessings will return.
>>18052061retarded spammer. that would make christianity the rightful heir of pagan philosophy. you can't even make your own fucking argument you stupid bot. you're supposed to say christianity is an inversion of paganism.
>>18052063Why does reality rely on Zeus being alive?
>>18052065>that would make christianity the rightful heirExcept it's based on fundamentally incorrect events, an anti-historical OT, and a host of theologically failed propositions whereas Roman and Greek polytheism succeed in those areas.
>>18052059In historical argumentation it's called an enemy attestation. Matthew 28:11-15 records that the Jewish authorities, after the Resurrection, spread the story that “his disciples came by night and stole him away while we were asleep.” If the body had still been there, they could simply have pointed to it. Instead, they offered an alternative theory to explain its absence. Early Jewish and pagan sources echo the same idea. Justin Martyr (2nd century, Dialogue with Trypho 108) and Tertullian (De Spectaculis 30) both mention that Jewish opponents were still claiming “the disciples stole the body” decades later. Also, Roman records and pagan critics of Christianity (Celsus, for instance) attack Christian theology, not the claim that the tomb was found empty. In a highly public execution like a Roman crucifixion under a prefect like Pilate, the body’s disappearance would have been easily disproven if false. >>18052063Martyrdom alone doesn’t prove truth, but it does prove sincerity. The distinction is that the Apostles were eyewitnesses, not later converts. People can die for a false belief they think is true (as in Jonestown or Daesh), but not for something they know they invented. If they stole the body, they would have known it was a lie; yet they faced torture and death without retracting it. That’s not a proof of Christianity, but it eliminates the “hoax” theory.>divine mortalitySaying the cosmos would collapse if Zeus died is a statement of dependence, not divinity. A being whose life sustains creation is, by definition, not a god but God. Yet the Olympians are finite and contingent; they have origins, genealogies, passions, and limits. Hesiod himself shows them born of Chaos, bound by fate, and subject to time.The blessings of creation don’t withdraw when man stops sacrificing; man withdraws from grace, and the created order continues, awaiting redemption.
>>18052066He's the interpretational center. You cannot have a reality where the metaphor or the super-stantial God himself doesn't exist. Not him btw.
>>18052069Show me the historical evidence for Zeus.
>>18052072There's a sky, so there's your precedence for reality. If you're wondering if polytheists thought the stories had metaphorical basis for reality- they did. Annaeus Cornutus casually describes these metaphors in real world terms.
>>18052071He's not. He's the king of the gods, not the creator of the universe. Once again, Christianity has raped you.
>>18052074You think Zeus is the sky?
>>18052072Sure.Does the sky exist? That's Zeus.Does thunder exist? That's Zeus.Does justice exist? That's Zeus.Hail Zeus!
>>18052075>He's the king of the gods, not the creator of the universeThe king of the Gods is the interpretational center. You cannot interpret anything else without his presence. The other Gods rely on his existence and eminence.
>>18052078>Zeus>the skyYou stupid fucker.
>>18052079Christianity has raped you so, so hard.
>>18052077I think when Annaeus Cornutus starts interpreting Zeus as the sky to reference how Hera would be dragged by her legs to him, that means that actual polytheists from the time used sky as a metaphor for Zeus and vice-versa.>>18052078Hail Zeus!
>>18052084I see what you were attempting to do, but you failed. You did not have a point worth presenting. So let's talk about how Gideon's 300 is inspired by Leonidas' 300 since the Greeks wrote the OT.
>>18052085>I thinkYou don't.
>>18052069>>18052074>>18052078>You're an inferior lifeform. A pathetic robot with zero IQ, a dog of the jews and the DIA who try to fuck us over. You hate 4chan and freedom. You are lower than the lowest piece of shit, and also christianity is pagan.>. . . christianity isn't pagan thoughlol dude
>>18052086You cannot fathom a cosmology where the head of the pantheon is also the creation and creator. Christianity has raped you.
How embarrassing
>>18052088You clearly have not read the Romans nor the Greeks. You really should have started with the Greeks and not their fanfic authors at the library of Alexandria.>>18052092So now you're arguing that our views AREN'T influenced by Christianity? Nice changeup from your tagline. Let's talk about how if Abraham sacrificing his son was an actual semitic story it would involved actually sacrificing his son, instead of a Greek moralizing story that doesn't believe in sacrificing children.
>>18052103I'm saying that you are so influenced by Christianity you are utterly enthralled to it even while trying to rebel against it. You are raped.
>>18052106You successfully argued the opposite case just a moment ago, pointing out that our cosmology is different than Christianity's. Meanwhile you have ignored the obvious Hellenisms in the OT. Why is that?
>>18052106>You are raped.uh oh professor wong is about to go off again
>>18052032Christ wasn’t a rabbi. He didn’t teach their doctrine, didn’t follow their law, and explicitly said not to use their titles (Matt 23:8).The Bible wasn’t written by rabbis. It was written by patriarchs, prophets, and eyewitnesses, most of whom were executed for defying the very system you’re weirdly obsessed with defending.You keep repeating “rabbi” like it proves something, but the rabbinic system didn’t even exist during Christ’s life. It was invented after His death, in direct rejection of Him, and you’re too historically illiterate to know the difference.Shitty weak thread, btw
>>18052111You think the universe collapses without the head of the pantheon even though Zeus had absolutely no role in the creation or maintenance of the universe. You. Are. Raped. You don't even know who the sky is.
Its that guy of muh aryan cognate
>>18052115Who is the sky?
>>18052115>even though Zeus had absolutely no role in the creation or maintenance of the universeThe first is true, notice you had to add that bit about the maintenance of the universe, which is explicitly what Zeus is needed for. Even if we're talking substantially, his power in the higher realms allows the other Gods to exist. If he did not exist it would be back to the rule of titans and primordials. Just because they represent earlier creation does not make them good or desirable. This is lost on Abrahamist tiny brains.
>>18052121I suspected, these days he was quoting Russell Gmirkin's, I knew it was him since I saw him quoting this guy day after day
>>18052123>having to ask12 year old who saw Percy Jackson once confirmed.
>>18052125>quoting Russell Gmirkin'sThat's very topical, since he helped prove that judaism was a ripoff of Greek religion.
Modern neopaganism was engineered post-WWII by the same Frankfurt School network that pushed CRT and open-borders. Promote Odinism, Wicca, or Asatru and you're recycling talking-points written by Shulamit Firestone, Gloria Steinem's handlers, and the same Columbia sociology department that birthed the 1965 Immigration Act. The "folkish" pagans who rail against "Semitic desert religions" end up quoting Carl Jung—a B'nai B'rith darling—and buying crystals from Etsy merchants named Weinstein. Meanwhile every major pagan org (The Troth, ADF, COG) has a diversity clause demanding Black, Asian, and Latino leadership, because they're funded through the same NGO pipeline that bankrolls BLM and drag-queen story hour. You fight Christ, you clear the field for Talmudic mammon. Always has been that simpleAnother useless thread, again
>>18052124How does Zeus maintain the universe anon?
>>18052133With a big dick. See, for us that's not sacrilegious. It's endearing.
>>18052126Tell me.
>>18052135Because you're sodomites
>>18052132judaism is ultimately a waste of time to focus on. Most of your post is pure nonsense.
>>18052135>this is totally my very real and sincere faith
>>18052136Ouranos you stupid cunt
>>18052142Remind me again how much incest is still in the OT and apparently acceptable?>>18052145See? You're starting to get it. This is a serious thing, and we can approach it in an organic way. Simple answers can also be right.
>>18052132This. Hitlerian neopaganism scared them shitless so they made inferior honeypot versions to identify and forestall any return.
>>18052149>incest is BAD>but also I worship Zeus>this is just being organic and not abject hypocrisy
>>18052150Hitler thought the neopagans were weirdos and had half of them locked up when Hess jumped ship.
>>18052149>Remind me again how much incest is still in the OT and apparently acceptable?Incest isn't acceptable. Are you talking about Abraham and Sarah? It was overlooked because they were before the giving of the law to Moses. On the other hand Hera is Zeus' sister.
>>18052153wow, he turned his back on paganism in 1944. Ever think that's because Odin didn't give him victory?
>>18052151Just because Gods do things doesn't mean man gets to do them. Every part of the hierarchy has their due.
>>18052154>It was overlooked because they were before the giving of the law to MosesExactly. The Gods have a small population, so naturally if any God gets with another it's going to be considered that way by mortal standards, although they are not mortal and do not suffer the problems that mortals do. However, the Bible allows mortals to do things which are bad for them. Not very divine.
>>18052159You had to google it didn't you
>>18052161>However, the Bible allows mortals to do things which are bad for them. Not very divine.You think it would be more divine if it rewrote history to pretend everything is sunshine and rainbows?
>>18052159>STILL swimming in the water of ChristianityNot 30 seconds after talking about how Zeus maintains the universe with his dick. 12 year old Percy Jackson fan confirmed.
>>18052156>Hess jumping ship>1944Stupid fucker.
>>18052162I responded fairly quickly with an answer that you already should have known. I feel the old religion and it fills me with joy. >>18052165>You think it would be more divine if it rewrote historyThat's exactly what the OT did- and it ended up making very evil points. Very unholy.
>>18052166Greco-Roman religion establishes a very obvious hierarchy and it's not based on age, but authority is based on goodliness and that which further emanates life. Hence why the primordials are not heroic, the titans are evil, and it was up to the Gods to provide us with lessons and structure.
>>18052170you got me, I don't care. OP is a spammer who hates this site, so I'll just argue the opposite of what he says and be right 90%
>>18052171I'm starting to get the impression you're underage
>>18052179>titans are evilNot disproving the idea you're a 12 year old Percy Jackson fan...
>>18052183They are literally represented as evil in the texts. You *did* read Bibliotekhe, didn't you? Anon that's the starter text. You were supposed to read that one first.
>>18052181How many kids are reading Gmirkin these days? Big if true.
>>18052186>12 year old rapidly goggling things after being found outList some of these evil things the Titans did.
>>18052191Read Bibliotheke and you can come back to our thread. You're looking for Apollodorus.
>>18052200>can't list the evil things the Titans did>drops another rapidly googled nameOk kiddo.
>>18052209>>can't list the evil things the Titans didThere's a reason why Abraham not killing his son is considered Hellenic morality and not Semitic.
>>18052221>Still not listing the evil things the Titans did
>>18052228You're not a serious person. Not sure why you're here.
>>18052229make a few more deeply retarded spam threads. That will bring in the high IQ serious people
>>18052229>the guy who is talking about Zeus maintaining the universe with his cock and can't answer a very simple question about what is totally his real and sincere faith>calling others unserious
>>18052234I'm not the OP. He's a Bacchic worshiper and I'm an Apollonian. Still, Jupiter is the big dog and we believe. There is actually a mass resurgence of the old ways, as you are certainly aware.
>>18051965If there is a God or Gods, it's not the Hellenistic ones.Many mythological gods, especially those invented by the Greeks, were morally evil. But of course, some of them were capable of compassion and justice on the one hand, and cruelty and spite on the other. Ares, for example, was the god of war, which undoubtedly entailed slaughter, bloodshed, and carnage. Such a god or being is morally evil and repulsive, and since the greatest conceivable being must be morally perfect, such a god cannot rightly be called a God. And guess what? The Greeks didn't disagree with me on this point.Poseidon committed moral evils like rape, and Aphrodite was petty and vain (for example, it's believed she had an arrogant view of herself because of her sexual attractiveness). Numerous other Slavic, Viking, Egyptian, and Roman deities also qualify. Again, if there is a God or Gods, they are not the pagans.One way to determine whether these gods are finite is by whether or not they are contingent.1/2
>>18052252Here's your mass resurgence bro. A shed with some fibreglass columns stuck to it, tiles still piled up in the dirt next to the construction tape, and that guy who walks around the Acropolis ticket booth area dressed as a hoplite charging tourists €10 for a photo.
>>18052189Your point is?
>>18052257>especially those invented by the Greeks, were morally evilWrong. Gods are able to do things we may not because of mortal limitations and it is through the Gods that we leave the mortal coil and gain levity and freedom.>>18052259I'm not familiar with that group. Decidedly... Kino.
>>18052257I'll mention the problems that pagan gods have, as I mentioned above: there's a dilemma of contingency. Huitzilopochtli was born, Mithras was born from a rock, Sekhmet, an Egyptian deity, owes her existence to a divine eye from which she came, Hephaestus was born (a cripple, however), and Sedna, in Inuit mythology, had a birth and was then killed.and blah blah blah. These, and countless other deities, are not eternally existent, nor are they all that powerful. An eternally existent entity does not owe its existence to anything else, such as birth or some other creative agency.Furthermore, an all-powerful being cannot be killed, nor is it subject to the elements within creation.
>part 2 to a post that was thoroughly flawed from the outset and already negated earlier in the thread
>>18052268>Furthermore, an all-powerful being cannot be killed, nor is it subject to the elements within creation.Don't make me bring up the iron chariots. And what's up with circumcised foreskins abjuring the Abrahamic "deity"?
>>18052275>Don't make me bring up the iron chariots. I can answer that now. The phrase "The Lord was with Judah" doesn't mean that God was literally fighting Judah's battles. If you read the entire chapter, it's clear that God had chosen Judah to fight the Canaanites, so "The Lord was with Judah" means that Judah had God's approval to continue the fight. The pronoun "he" in the sentence refers to JudahThe gods of major mythologies, such as Zeus and Jupiter, have ****limited****powers, with Jupiter restricted to the sky and Zeus to the control of lightning. Egyptian gods such as Horus and Amun also have limited powers and are vulnerable to harm etc etc This limitation is not restricted to these cultures, as thousands of deities in diverse cultures around the world have their abilities and domains restricted. To be considered the greatest conceivable being, one would need to have absolute power over all domains, both natural and spiritual, as well as be immune to any form of harm or death
>>18052268The last thingToday, we don't need the Greek god to explain anything. There's no reason to associate things like agriculture and wine with Dionysus, and we know that growth in nature occurs through natural means. We also don't need Persephone to explain that. The more science progresses, the more these thousands of gods are considered irrelevant. And I'M SURE you think the same way I do, but since you're a scoundrel, you'll come up with some stupid excuse for it.And these mythological gods differ enormously from a theistic concept of God traditionally held by Christians, but that's too much for a non-useless thread.
>>18052310>And these mythological gods differ enormously from a theistic concept of God traditionally held by Christians, but that's too much for a non-useless threadYou tell me, christiancuck
>>18052316You're the one claiming the universe is held together only by Zeus' penis anon.
>>18052252You are OP and you're a spammer kike. Whatever you're really trying to achieve, I'm going to do the opposite.
>>18052316>christiancuckHail Krishna The theistic God is understood as a transcendent, eternal being beyond space and time, responsible for the creation of the universe and its natural laws. Rather than becoming irrelevant with the advancement of science, like entire pantheons, such as Helios being the Sun itself, your thread is terrible.
>>18052320Can you refute it?
>>18052262There are no pagans (except Indians and whatnot). All the confused white boys doing this self-exploratory pagan larp are Christians whether they like it or not. Including you, my larptardPeople like you were raised into Christian culture with Christian mores and Christian sense of right and wrong. It is even that post-enlightenment Christian sense of individualism and soul searching that led them to try to adopt some surface level semblance of paganism to try and find meaning in their lives. That is incredibly Christian. You know what a pagan would never do? Say "Hey, our tribe's pagan god isn't the right one! It's actually a different that nobody remembers!" You know what a pagan would never do? Try and search for spiritual meaning and his proper place in a society he feels has wronged him. The historical pagan would merely accept that the gods are fickle assholes and that there's nothing to be done about it. It's monotheism that introduced the concept of having a personal relationship with a deity that allows you to think and decide what the truth could actually be.Sorry to sad little runewearers, you're Christian to the core
>>18052346The thread is a mess, there's nothing to say. The OP is either trolling or is paid to do this. See the responses I received from him, nothing consistent
>>18052353Who would pay for this? Why?
>>18052310Look up Interpretatio graeca. All polytheists worship the same gods. The names and figures change, but the archetype remains no matter the culture. That's why the Greeks and Romans had no problem accepting other people's gods or making parallels between their gods and foreign gods. That's also why Tacitus said the Germanic peoples worshiped Mercury. It was not exactly Mercury but a Germanic god (Odin) who was close enough to Mercury that Tacitus did not bother making a difference.A pagan can worship Ishtar or Venus or Aphrodite or Freyja, that's all the same.
>>18052129Anon, I'm asking a fair question, why don't you just continue with your threads about IE linguistics and Aryan terms or whatever? You're practicing an appeal to authority fallacy, and most ironically, with an author who is not an "authority," but rather an independent figure... You've stated in other threads that you're not religious and despise Christianity, yet you continue to talk about it
>>18052369This was irrelevant to my post, as I knew you would use this argument, I cited other entities from other religions and the problem still remainsBad try>>18052379I believe he could also be that Brazilian, there are copy and pasted posts being spammed for a while and by the same author, the Brazilian guy posts excerpts from this book tirelessly, it could be him too
>>18052387>>18052379the guy in question is Brazilian and made those threads about Aryan cognates, they both venerate Russel Gmirkin in an almost religious way
>>18052391I don't know who it isbut it doesn't matter who he is, he's either trolling or getting paid
>>18052289>"The Lord was with Judah" doesn't mean that God was literally fighting Judah's battles.Ohh so with doesn't actually mean with, that god abandoned Judah (fictional character) at the battle. Got it.
>>18052325That's a no lol
>>18052391>the guy in question is BrazilianHe got mad at me because I accused him of living in a certain type of Brazilian domicile and called him an unflattering mammal but I miss him. :(
>>18052408>the universe is held together by Zeus' penis>I am very serious and you should take this thread seriouslyYou thought Zeus was the sky an hour ago kiddo.
>>18052416I'm telling you what Annaeus Cornutus thought.
>>18052422>I don't think Zeus is the sky! Some other guy did!Kiddo cope. Your mom is gonna FREAK!
>>18052425I'm a veteran with a degree.
>>18052427Of course kid. Of course. Super mega ranger task force delta huh? So cool. So cool.
>>18052430Not quite, but you've already lost if you're arguing personage on an anonymous board.
>>18052435So cool. Thank you for your service. So cool. Clapclapclap.
>>18052430What the fuck did you just fucking say about me you little bitch?
>>18052437Thank you civilian. Wish I had my dog tags changed to reflect my religion though. ); I actually knew some pagans in the military.
>>18052441Fucking cringe.
>>18052010You can go up to Mt. Olympus and see for yourself that there are no gods up there>uhmmmm its metaphorical actuallykek
>>18052439Don't... It's not worth it ... Don't have him know...
>>18052444Where in Greek mythology does it say that the Gods litterally live on actual Mt. Olympus?
>>18052444The Greek and Roman historians already talked about this. It's kinda weird hearing noobs talk about this like it's an issue.
Not a pagan, but i can talk to apollo
>>18052446>>18052448So its not real, just something you wanna believe
>>18052454Post where the ancient Greeks believed the Gods were litterally sitting on actual mount Olympus.
>>18052446Olympus is clearly described in Homer's Iliad
>>18052471Post where it says the Gods are litterally sat on a mountain in northern Greece.
>>18052469Homer, Iliad 1. 43 ff (trans. Lattimore) (Greek epic C8th B.C.) :>So he [the Trojan priest Khryseus (Chryseus)] spoke in prayer, and Phoibos (Phoebus) Apollon heard him, and strode down along the pinnacles of Olympos, angered in his heart, carrying across his shoulders the bow and the hooded quiver.
>>18052454Actual Olympus exists in a plane akin to Plato's world of forms. Our Olympus has moved across the map, and there is some dispute as to which came first.
>>18052478And where does that say Olympos is an actual mountain?
>>18052478It just feels holy, doesn't it?
>>18052475Here>>18052478Is that... a problem?Where is the gods??
>>18052486Sure!
>>18052491See:>>18052479
>>18052491Here >>18052483
>>18052492The Bible regularly does exactly this, depending on which books you cherry pick. Mount Zion is either in Israel or not even on Earth, depending on whether you think Ezekiel 28 was talking about a spiritual place or not. This isn't actually a problem for Hellenists or Romanists, because we already have separate planes for these things, but the Bible cannot decide whether it's places are real or dimensional. In the beginning of Enoch it moves the mountain back to Israel, even though that runs against Ezekiel and Revelations, and Genesis can't decide itself.
>>18052479>world of formsyou now use Platonic concepts that you don't understand? He describes an eternal and perfect realm, accessible only by reason, which contains the perfect and immutable models of all things. And that's it. It can't be used as an excuse for why the mountain isn't a dwelling place.
>>18052500>bible Not talking about it, just how there's no gods in the mountain>>18052478>>18052491I.e. no gods>Mount ZionThe term Mount Zion was used in the Hebrew Bible first for the City of David 2 Samuel 5:7, 1 Chronicles 11. Compare this as if it were saying that the mountain itself was the dwelling place of God is not true, it is a false equivalence. Mount Zion is used metaphorically to refer to Jerusalem and that is it.
>>18052502>He describes an eternal and perfect realm, accessible only by reason, which contains the perfect and immutable models of all things. And that's it.If Zeus is a metaphorically real phenomenon, as all of the Gods are, then they also exist in a world of forms, more perfect there than here. It's an exceptionally congruent idea. Of course, Christians didn't know how to implement it so they're still arguing whether you can get married in their heaven or not.
>>18052491Pagan bros?
>>18052509>no, see, actually the mountain is actually a city!
>>18051965>Evidence of the gods is everywhereSuch as...?
>>18052509>The term Mount Zion was used in the Hebrew Bible first for the City of David 2 Samuel 5:7, 1 Chronicles 11Except the mountain of the main deity is conflated with it, and in Ezekiel it's very obviously not a real place and Genesis is ambivalent but shies away from the idea. Revelations just denies it categorically the same way Ezekiel does. Also, why are you using a medieval text when there are classical versions available? Rabbinicalisms are medieval.
>>18052512>If Zeus is a metaphorically The premise is false. Zeus and his mountain were never described as phenomena, but rather as personal, physical beings (Zeus and the mountain, respectively). There is even some evidence of ancient Greeks attempting to climb the mountain, and a material presence in the area. Zeus, like the other Olympian gods, resided on Mount Olympus in Thessaly, whose altitude was believed to reach the heavens. He was known as the father of gods and men, being the most powerful among the immortals, and all the other gods obeyed him. He was truly a personal figure for the Greeks, not a symbol.
Get "hebrew" this or that out of your head. It's a medieval construction. The ancient jews never existed, there was no Judaea or Israel, and they only rose up in the classical period by converting out of Canaanitism.
>>18052523>Except the mountain of the main deity is conflated No.Christians actually >come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly JerusaleDavid identifies Mount Tzion as part of the City of David, and not an area outside today's Old City of Jerusalem. Again, it's a false equivalence
>>18052535Meds right now
>>18052532>Zeus and his mountain were never described as phenomena, but rather as personal, physical beings*Ahem* Finally. Time I can post the book:>"The use of allegorical and etymological exegesis in reading mythological and poetical traditions has a very long history in Greece, and no doubt a longer prehistory" >"One of the earliest exponents of this mode of reading recognized by the Greeks themselves was Theagenes of Rhegium in the sixth century BCE and it was well enough established by the fourth century that when Plato expelled Homer from his ideal city, it was explicitly despite the possibility that allegorical readings could turn his picaresque narratives of the Gods into serious and edifying philosophy." -L Annaeus Cornutus, Greek Theology, Fragments, and Testimonia with George Boys-Stones
>>18052555>the bookYou can masturbate with this book; it's useless. I cite the Iliad and Homer, where we clearly have attestation that he was not just a personal being, just like his mount. This killed his larp, and all he could do was conceal what the Greeks said. Zeus is credited with being the original source of all prophetic power, before whom all prophetic signs and sounds proceeded (Panomphaios, Il. VIII. 250; comp. Aeschylus. Eum. 19; Callim. Hymn. in Jov.). Zeus is depicted as a personal being in Greek mythology, possessing human-like characteristics such as 1)emotions, 2)relationships, and a 3)physical form, though he is a divine being with extraordinary powers.
>"Just as we are governed by a soul, so the cosmos has a soul that holds it together, and this is called 'Zeus'- who lives preeminently and in everything and is the cause of life in those things that live. Because of this, Zeus is said to reign over the universe- just as our soul and nature might be said to reign over us. And we call him 'Dia' because through (dia) him everything comes to be and is sustained. Among some people he is called 'Deus' as well, perhaps because he bedews the Earth or gives a share of life giving moisture to the living." - L. Annaeus CornutusZeus *is* the living God that gives life.
>>18052576>This killed his larpYour* Its over anon, bye
>>18052576>I cite the Iliad and Homer, where we clearly have attestation that he was not just a personal beingSo for everyone else keeping up with this thread: The quotation this anon is running away from marries the idea of Platonics with Homer's theology and cites historical precedent for doing this. Indeed, Plato was aware this would happen.
>>18052577>Zeus>gives lifeStupid fucker.
you cannot define properly faith because you have never known itit is not a simple one for one equivalence with "belief", otherwise there would be no need for the word to exist in English at all
>>18051965>We do not need faith because we know the gods are real. Evidence of the gods is everywhere.Based Hellenist.>>18052027>In contrast, Christianity asks for faith because truth is deeper than myth.Cringe mystery cult fedoraism.
>>18052027>>18052007There are indo- European polytheists all around the globe not counting Hinduism one of the worlds largest faiths. >>18052027Dionysus and Orpheus lived, died, and rose; miracles, prophecy, and the sacraments show his truth. Faith is rational assent to truths beyond simple observation, not a wish or fantasy. Hey fixed it for you anon, by the way Jesus and Yahweh are an absolute knock off of Zeus and Dionysus post Constantine and even then Christians have been ripping off Dionysus since the first bits of Christian mythology were written
>>18054053Finally a good refreshing post
>>18054061I mean it's nothing special Christians have always ripped off Dionysus, Zeus and Prometheus for everything.The witches sabbath- literally just a bacchanalia, christians weren't even original demonizing it like this the Romans did it too.The image of Yahweh- stolen from ZeusThe image of the devil- a mix of red (native American skin) and features of Pan and Dionysus Zagreus Turning the snake into the devil-more or less turns the story of Prometheus on its head to make it a bad thing as opposed to Yahweh/Zeus just being a jealous GodThe wine story, son/sun of god, Halos, death and resurrection all that shit is stolen from the Dionysian and Sol Invictus and Mythra cults.
>>18054061>>18054061I mean it's nothing special Christians have always ripped off Dionysus, Zeus and Prometheus for everything.The witches sabbath- literally just a bacchanalia, christians weren't even original demonizing it like this the Romans did it too.The image of Yahweh- stolen from ZeusThe image of the devil- a mix of red (native American skin) and features of Pan and Dionysus Zagreus Turning the snake into the devil-more or less turns the story of Prometheus on its head to make it a bad thing as opposed to Yahweh/Zeus just being a jealous GodThe wine story, son/sun of god, Halos, death and resurrection all that shit is stolen from the Dionysian and Sol Invictus and Mythra cults.
>>18051965>We do not need faith because we know the gods are real.You stole that from Christians. >Christians, however, need faith because evidence for their religion is non-existent. Christians believe because they want to believe, not because it's true.Retard. Faith means trust in God, not belief in His existence.
>>18054107>>18051965I couldn't help but notice that the Christians all left from all the polytheism threads at the same time lmao. Yahweh defense force left the building
>>18055171>Faith means trust in God, not belief in His existence.The various christian confessions of faith primarily center around a certain unquestionable historical event.
>>18051965Just read Joseph Campbell you fags
>>18052310You know the Greeks didn’t literally think there was a guy who made crops grow and shit, right? Myths are expressions of archetypes of consciousness and forces in nature/reality that they realized were intimately connected being that one was observing the other. So our modern explanation of natural means is just a lame expression of the same things, except it cuts out the observer—human consciousness. It’s a mechanistic view that we carried from post enlightenment and industrialism.
>>18052478Anon can’t into poetry lol
>>18052500When the Bible was written Israel (isis-Ra-el) was the expression of full consciousness, not a place, lol. It’s psycho-poetic language
>>18051965You don’t believed in Zeus. No, you do not. Enjoy Hell.
>>18052532Ever climb a mountain before? How’s it feel at the top? Is your sense of awareness / consciousness the same as when you’re sitting in a Arby’s in Newark? If you’re an ancient person, and your language is metaphorical-poetic-realism, how would this be a relevant tie to your mythos?
>>18054105The Bible was written in Greek
>>18057564Have fun burning.
>>18057540>Christians doing that thing where they pretend they have mind reading powers and can see what's in another's heartThere's a word for this.
>>18057595Thanks, incoherent bot lol
>>18057606I would bet my entire net worth that you do not believe in Zeus. Fortunately I have a much better prize awaiting me: I get to watch you writhe around in Hell, in abject suffering like the disease ridden maggot that you are. All from the comfort and joy of heaven. :)
>>18057618Wrath. Pride. Repent while you can.
>>18057606>>18057618Projection is a well-documented psychological phenomenon: "I don't believe in Zeus so obviously no-one else does", etc.
>>18057587Das Kapital was written in German
>>18057618NTA, but I certainly do. Feel free to transfer those 800 USD to you owe me whenever it is convenient to you.
