As Generaloberst of the 6th Armee, how would you personally have fought the Battle of Stalingrad?
>>18052739Fired Seydlitz. Hired Chuikov.
>>18052739Get Russian comfort women. Paulus bungled up due to stress stemming form sexual frustration.
>>18052760they already did that extensively
>>18052766Evidence?
>>18052739I wouldn't lol. I would be sitting in Argentina with barely legal girls with fat tits
>>18052805sarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
>>18052812बिल्कुल किराया मुक्त.
I wouldn’t, I would just hide in the basement at the steel works factory and turn it into my personal goon cave.
>>18052943Field Marshal among mere generals.
>>18052739Germans did everything right but the Soviets were just stronger. And no, you are not a better general than the Germans during WW2 had.Uncle Adolf himself summed it up when he said that if he knew how strong the Russians really were then he wouldn't have attacked them in the first place.
>>18053187I still think they could’ve at least gotten a stalemate with the Soviets if the U.S. hadn’t been brought into the war.
Here's what I'd do: I'd insist on urban conquest without secure flanks, allow Operation Uranus to break through weak Hungarian sectors, get encircled, expect Luftwaffe to supply, get trapped and destroyed.
>>18052739I would have OD on eukodal and pervitin
>>18052739They did everything they could. The only thing you could do is ignore Hitler's orders and allow for an retreat to avoid encirclement, but you're getting court martialed right after.
>>18054649Why did a person who never rose above corporal have control over the entire German military?
>>18054667Majority of leaders in modern democracies have zero experience.
>>18054667Why not?
>>18054713because NCOs aren't trained to lead armies around?
>>18054667In Hitlers defense, it's understandable why he did not want to authorize any retreat.He knew that this was Germanys last chance of winning the war. If he pulled Army Group B out from the Volga, he would be forced to pull Army Group A out of the Caucasus (or they would be cut off), effectively ending Case Blue.Wehrmacht had enough men and resources for one final grand offensive after the failure of Barbarossa, which they used to dash for the Caucasus to gain more resources. If they pulled out now, they were never coming back, because they could never scrap the same amount of men and material for a second 'Case Blue' again.In other words, pulling out of Stalingrad = Surrendering the Volga = Surrendering the Caucasus = Losing the war.They simply HAD to win there, or everything would be lost and it would just be a slow and hopeless grind until the enemy reach Berlin. It was better to lose the 6th Army at Stalingrad for a slight chance of victory, than losing the 6th Army at Berlin with certain defeat. Not saying Hitler was smart, merely pointing out that he was doing the most rational thing out of a hopeless situation. Post-war German generals spent most of their time creating a myth that it was Hitlers fault they lost the war and they could have won if they had just done X Y Z. The truth is that Germany lost the war the moment they invaded Russia, the moment Barbarossa failed, and possibly even earlier than that. Case Blue wasn't going to work and it certainly wasn't going to work if they had retreated earlier.
>>18054722>trainingNigga, he single handedly took absolute control over one of the most advanced nations in the world. I'm pretty sure he doesn't need any "training". You don't get taught genius in school.
>>18054727why train any german officer then
>>18054723It's a shame you have to obsequiously explain a common sense position because you already know certain people are foaming at the mouth because your version didn't make a cartoon out of the situation.
>>18052739I would just troon out because that's what Nazis do.
>>18052739When I got hungry, I would have simply killed and eaten the Hiwis. They were dead anyway once we surrendered
>>18054732Genius is a separate category. Pretty sure you're being obtuse, but in case you're not, training is to bring candidates up to a minimum level. A natural genius is going to be well beyond the benchmarks in specific areas.
>>18052739I wouldn't have fought it at all. Urban combat is way to costly and actually taking the city didn't change much for the situation on the eastern front as a whole. If the city can't be bypassed then it's better to just hold off on the Volga river instead of wasting supplies and manpower on it. If Hitler sacked me for not trying then I'll just accept it, maybe I can get sent to Auschwitz and spend the rest of my days swimming their giant pool and enjoying myself at the masturbation machines.
>>18054762*Donets rivernot the volga river
>>18054764Why didn't Hitler just order Admiral Donitz to defend the Donets River? Is he stupid?
>>18052760Comfort women were prostitutes, not sex slaves
>>18053420I don't think so. Soviet war production outmatched the Germans even without accounting for lend lease. Then there's also the manpower difference, and the overstretched supply lines. Operation Barbarossa was always going to fail
>>18054782he didn't use Franz Halder to hold France either.he was definitely a dumbo
>>18054762>actually taking the city didn't change much for the situation on the eastern front as a wholeInsanely shit take. Stalingrad is called Volgograd today. It sits as the primary chokepoint for the entire Volga river, diving east from west and cutting off the Caucasus.
>>18054826Halder was the biggest fuckup in the Wehrmacht. No one singularly did more damage to morale and planning. He told Rommel that he wasted his time in Africa and they had no intention of supplying him more than they had to. He went around to various line officers spouting shit like that. He had a kindred malice with Manstein.
>>18054835that's why he should've been relegated to a non-job like holding france from '41-'43 instead of planning barbarossa
>>18052739defect to the Soviets even faster
>>18054857I would have just purged him out, but I see your point now. It does seem like a waste to have committed Rommel and Rundstedt to France, but I think Rommel may have been injured and Rundstedt sick.
>>18054818Wouldn’t the manpower difference be mitigated in this case since the U.S. wouldn’t be there to open up a new front in Western Europe which diverts German troops away from the Soviets?
>>18055113The Soviet Union had a larger population than Germany. Even with additional German troops on the Eastern Front the Soviets would still have more manpower
>>18052739>general lolbertGermans are not a serious people.
>>18054667Why did a guy who dodged the draft multiple times and has no military experience at all have control over the entire American military?
>>18053187He said that he would still attack because his hand was forced by extortions from Molotov.
>>18054831These shit takes were called out by Hitler himself in the Stalingrad speech, including the insanity that he wanted to take it because it has Stalin in it's name.
>>18055517>we didn't want to take the vitally important river crossing city that secures our entire north east flank because... BECAUSE WE JUST DIDN'T OK! Please ignore we sent a million soldiers to their deaths to try to take and hold it!
>>18052739>Anti tank guns and mines everywhere, ungodly amount of mines. >Also fuck over halder, Model and group A for reinforcements. >Ensnare Speer with some retarded mega project like a don volga canal so he builds infrastructure to carry said mines and men.>Vocally and repeatedly call Goering and the luftwaffle homosexual>Bribe and/or blackmail wagner and Gercke to cooperate Rape every russian like the mongols to make them instinctively obedient.
>>18053420ignorant post
>>18054743Interesting post.
>>18054860THIS.
>>18054734Yes, there is a lot of gate-keeping done by other people over the WW2 narrative for reasons I dont know, but I know they exist, so you always have to overexplain everything because you know there will be pushback.I was banned from the ww2 subreddit almost a day after I joined and began engaging in conversations. I was banned because I was a "nazi" because I was simply explaining the rationale behind many of Hitlers decisions, which other redditors misunderstood and misinterpretated.
>>18053187Quite the opposite. The Winter War convinced him that the Soviets were weak and would roll over once invaded. The early successes of Barbarossa reinforced this. It wasn't until Typhoon that the reality of the situation set in.
>>18055623but your take is dumb, there was no point in staying in Stalingard since Axis forces couldn't penetrate the Caucasus mountains anyway. And not ordering ALREADY ENCIRCLED soldiers to pull back and link with the rescuing force was an absolute madness, Hitler made some good decision (mostly by luck and outside of box thinking since he was a painter and mailboy) but that was one of his worst
>>18055635Their equipment would be lost in the retreat, especially with a multinational army the retreat could easily turn into a rout where you can't even reinforce any defenses since the already frozen roads would be unusable by the fleeing soldiers and civilians What would make sense would be to either reinforce the italians and Hungarians, or to retreat before Uranus would be a threat. Hindsight is 20/20
>>18055635On the December breakout attempt. A few guys apparently literally walked out and the rest were either already doomed by starvation by frozen uma meat or too far from the manstein to matter
>>18055635lol you're calling me dumb yet you argue from a false premise.First of all Army Group A wasnt trying to penetrate the Caucasus mountains. I have no idea why you even said this. You probably lack knowledge.Army Group A task was to secure Maikop and Grozny oilfields, both whom are north of the Caucasus.Hitler expressively said the target was Maikop and Grozny. You can literally find the quote.Also, what part is it that you dont understand? If they pull out of Stalingrad, they lose control of the Volga. If they lose control of the Volga then they cannot maintain a defensive line and Army Group A is at great risk of being cut off. Which one is more catastrophic? One army encircled at Stalingrad, or several armies encircled in the Caucasus.Controlling the Volga was also vital to defeat the Soviets because it was the nerve of transportation of raw material from the Caucasus and Persian gulf to Soviet refineries etc.Again the bottom line is that if they withdraw from the Volga, they can no longer win the war.But yes, it was insanity, but not for the reasons you mention. Case Blue in itself was insanity because it rested on assumptions that the Red Army was nearly beaten, and this assumption (wishful thinking) continued even as Stalingrad was encircled. That the Wehrmacht would eventually prevail. A lot of wishful thinking that the Luftwaffe could support the army etc.The wishful thinking was simply from the fact that they couldnt admit that the war was lost from the failure of Barbarossa. Case Blue was a bad plan but it was the best plan available. The alternative would have been to sue for peace the moment Barbarossa failed, which would have been absurd to the NS government.Even Barbarossa itself was built on wishful thinking and underestimating the enemy and overestimating your own capability.Keep in mind that its around the time of Stalingrad when Hitler starts to become more ideological than pragmatic.
>>18056111>Hitler said
>>18055517> So if Mr. Stalin expected that we would attack in the center, I did not want to attack in the center, not only because Mr. Stalin probably believed I would, but because I didn't care about it any more at all. But I wanted to come to the Volga, to a definite place, to a definite city. It accidentally bears the name of Stalin himself, but do not think that I went after it on that account.Oh yeah he explicitly says they didn't lmao
>>18056113There's literally no better source. NTA
>>18055977>Their equipment would be lost in the retreat, especially with a multinational army the retreat could easily turn into a rout where you can't even reinforce any defenses since the already frozen roads would be unusable by the fleeing soldiers and civiliansMaybe, maybe not. Either way, it's better than losing all 330,000 soldiers of your most elite army. Those soldiers could be used to defend the retreating Caucasian army somewhere else>What would make sense would be to either reinforce the italians and Hungarians, or to retreat before Uranus would be a threatIf we are going with the full handsight then Barbarossa was essentially unwinnable from a military point. Providing more anti-tank weapons to the Italians and Hungarians would have slowed down the Saturn offensive, but the outcome of the battle would have been the same>>18056111>First of all Army Group A wasnt trying to penetrate the Caucasus mountainshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Caucasus>If they pull out of Stalingrad, they lose control of the VolgaThe Germans didn't control the Volga as a defensive line. The Soviets had several strong bridgeheads on the left bank the entire time. It would have been better to retreat them and then establish a defense elsewhere. Again, I'm talking about after they were surrounded. Hitler delayed his decision because he thought he could simply recreate the front line from October 1942 with Manstein's counterattack The elimination of pocket of course slowed down the Red Army but there is no way in hell that it was a preferable option, nazis just wanted to make them martyrs for the morale sake as their propaganda changed from>we are unbeatabletoo>everyone is here to kill us, we need to try our best to survive
>>18056111>If they pull out of Stalingrad, they lose control of the VolgaJust defend the Donets and Manych rivers and funnel supplies to Army Group A in the Caucasus over Rostov and by sea from Crimea, easy.
>>18054723They could've taken Moscow instead before going south.
>>18052770
>>18056348You're right, but for some reason there were constant calls by Halder and Manstein to freeze the fronts. I'm 100% convinced Hitler should have purged the Wehrmacht.
>>18054748>Shitler>genius
