Authoritarian, but distainful of the traditional state and institutions. Carries out most of its rulings outside of the rule of law.
Highly nationalistic
Reveres the military and promotes a cult of strength
Opposes the individual and believes things should be organised to benefit the nation as a whole.
Usually centred around a singular leader who develops a cult of personality

This essential characteristics can be found in all fascist regimes, but fascism is something of a big tent ideology and can vary massively in other aspects.

>>18054124
Its when the state does stuff and the police are mean.

>>18054124
Fascist states all revolve around war. Thats their MO. Everything else is secondary

>>18054150
You're just describing plain authoritarianism.
Everything you just wrote can be applied on virtually every dictatorship.
North Korea, Soviet Union/Russia, China, Idi Amins Uganda, Pinochets Chile, Nassers Egypt etc.

So I ask again, what is special and central to fascism? Not just plain authoritarianism.

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>>18054153
This.

>>18054153
Ok so just authoritarianism then?
Is that really what fascism is? There's nothing else to it?
So the Soviet Union was fascist?

>>18054150
Thou hast offendeth me and my culture of strength. Apologize or relinquish thine scant shred of honor.

>>18054124
Everything and everyone i don't like

>>18054205
I think the closest thing to it is the Roman Empire.
That is, bringing different tribes together through a centralized government. They once were different but now are the same and interchangable in the eyes of the state.

>>18054205
The focus on war and its social Darwinian aspects

>>18054210
No, because when the police is mean on behalf of jews its called tikkun olam or christianity.

>>18054243
Christianity is Roman, judaism is Greek.

>>18054253
retard

>>18054124
>>18054205
Fascism is an ideology that treats the nation as the basis for political interpretation. The individual must submit to the nation, by being healthy, by praising cultural norms, by fighting for the nation, by following the national leader etc. It has a metaphysical and spiritual consideration of the nation, relegating individual reason to irrational optic and esthetics (this is also why fascists tend to be massive larpers).

Irl, it's when discontented masses get fed up by the political elites and ideologies and seek to revolt against the current order through populist leaders. This is why fascism has some left-leaning elements, some conservative-leaning elements, and some futurists element.

>>18054267
So, like Rome. Which Facsism was based on.

>>18054273
Rome isn't exactly fascism because afaik it just focused more on the idea of Res Publicae then it did of the Roman "nation".
But yeah, kinda, albeit with not the same starting point

>>18054267
There's also religious origins and facets of capitalism.
Which makes distinctly defining fascism all that more difficult.

>>18054260
Response please??

>>18054210
No. They were similar, sure. But, the main difference was their stance on capitalism.
In which case soviet socialism/communism aren't particularly keen capitalism.
But, fascism is more okay with it.
Fascism isn't necessarily pro capitalism, but it's not inherently anti-capitalism either.
From britannica.
>Despite the fascists’ violent opposition to Marxism, some observers have noted significant similarities between fascism and Soviet communism. Both were mass movements, both emerged in the years following World War I in circumstances of political turmoil and economic collapse, both sought to create totalitarian systems after they came to power (and often concealed their totalitarian ambitions beforehand), and both employed terror and violence without scruple when it was expedient to do so. Other scholars have cautioned against reading too much into these similarities, however, noting that fascist regimes (in particular Nazi Germany) used terror for different purposes and against different groups than did the Soviets and that fascists, unlike communists, generally supported capitalism and defended the interests of economic elites

>>18054281
I'm saying that is actually more Facsist than the early 20th century wave of facsism. Which was more focused on race and nationalism than Roman Facsism. Which was focused on bringing the peoples of its expanding borders in to its bundle as much it was focused on the territory itself.

>>18054300
>it's not inherently anti-capitalism either
Hitler, Mussolini and Mosley were all extremely anti-capitalist.
>inb4 NS isn't fascism
The Britannica you're using implies it is, so we're using the loose definition rather than the technical, clearly.

>>18054322
you have to adress Pinochet and Franco on that case too

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>>18054124
Purposefully redirection of a socialist revolution.

When a fully developed capitalist country has a large and essential workforce, and squeezes that workforce to get more profits - the workforce can bring the country to a stand still in strikes or revolution.

Fascism comes about when the middle class - the comfortable status quo class - allies with the ruling class capitalist class to crush and redirect the work force.

That usually means police state (crush protests), that means racism (redirecting anger), that means sending off the troublesome population to warm (get them off the streets and onto the frontlines).

>>18054327
I guess, but at that point we're really watering it down to just mean "authoritarian".

>>18054333
>digits
nice
>picrel
based
>post
retarded

>>18054322
>Hitler
>extremely anti-capitalist
Against Jewish owned businesses.
>inb4 NS isn't fascism
Okay good, cause I wouldn't have said that anyway.
>The Britannica you're using
WTF does that mean? You can go on the page itself, it says it.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism/Common-characteristics-of-fascist-movements
>so we're using loose definition rather than the technical, clearly
I'm using exactly what's on the page.
If that's not good enough, here's are a dictionary's definition. From dictionary.com.
>fascism

[fash-iz-uhm]
Phonetic (Standard)
IPA
noun

1. (sometimes initial capital letter), a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter), the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.

3. (initial capital letter), a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

>>18054352
Different anon. To be capitalist implies you have public trading and allow company's to make thier own decisions as to growth and production. I think its safe to say Facsists did not do this. Although they still had large companys.

>>18054322
Going further into the article on britannica I found this little piece about "corperatism."
>The fascist theory and practice of corporatism involved the organization of each major sector of industry, agriculture, the professions, and the arts into state- or management-controlled trade unions and employer associations, or “corporations,” each of which would negotiate labor contracts and working conditions and represent the general interests of their professions in a larger assembly of corporations, or “corporatist parliament.” Corporatist institutions would replace all independent organizations of workers and employers, and the corporatist parliament would replace, or at least exist alongside, traditional representative and legislative bodies. In theory, the corporatist model represented a “third way” between capitalism and communism, allowing for the harmonious cooperation of workers and employers for the good of the nation as a whole. In practice, fascist corporatism was used to destroy labor movements and suppress political dissent. In 1936, for example, the economic program of the French Social Party included shorter working hours and vacations with pay for “loyal” workers but not for “disloyal” ones, and benefits were to be assigned by employers, not the government. The Nazi “Strength Through Joy” program, which provided subsidies for vacations and other leisure activities for workers, operated on similar principles.
Alfred Thayer Mahan
More From Britannica
20th-century international relations: Fascism and Italian reality
Continued.

>>18054378
>Extensive corporatist legislation was passed in Italy beginning in the late 1920s, creating several government-controlled unions and outlawing strikes. The Salazar regime in Portugal, using the Italian legislation as its model, outlawed the Trade Union Federation and all leftist unions, made corporatist unions compulsory for workers, and declared strikes illegal—all of which contributed to a decline in real wages. Croatian, Russian, Argentine, Brazilian, and Chilean fascism also proposed corporatist solutions to labor-management strife
So yeah, not capitalism necessarily. "Corporatism."

It's a racial ideology.

>>18054300
Again, you're merely describing authoritarianism, but more as a part of a generation of authoritarianism.

Read what you yourself write and ask yourself how this is not the case. You're not outlying anything specific that seperates fascism from authoritarianism, and authoritarianism can exist in all political spectrums. You can have communist authoritarian states, capitalist authoritarian states, socialist authoritarian states and fascist authoritarian states.

>>18054318
>Which was more focused on race
There is nothing in fascism which focus on race. This is a myth. It's also what seperates fascism from national-socialism

>>18054364
>Although they still had large companys.
Large companies that were controlled by the state, which capitalist would never do because capitalism is about free market, free economy and small government.

Fascist states allowed private business but these were still mobilized for the state by the state and thus subservient to the will and planning of the state.

>>18054395
Myth.
There is nothing in fascism that is racial.

>>18054205

>Typically nationalist (as in, the biblical meaning of the term 'nation' e.g blood/heritage)
>Strong professors of irredentism
>Appeal to "arbitrary traditionalism" - embodying Nietzschean aspects of history and, for a lack of a better term, "Cherry Picking" traditions to cultivate a stronger national identiy/unity in order to wrest the population under the control of the State

>>18054124
Totalitarian
Autarky
Anti-capitalism and anti-communism
Corporatist or National Syndicalist
Militaristic, sometimes expansionist

>>18054583
Again, a state can be nationalist and adhere to traditions without being fascist. I.e it takes more than mere nationalism and authoritarianism to define what fascism is.
Because again, with this definition, you could say that 90% of all dictatorships are fascists, which they aren't.

You're still having trouble with grasping this sinple logic.

Your definition of fascism is omitting some crucial components that makes fascism an unique ideological doctrine. All you're doing is citing the nationalist authoritarian part of it, which is extremely insufficient to describe the state ideology.

>>18054267
>>18054150
>Fascism is having a functioning nation full of healthy people who correctly identify brown invaders or the Capital-O 'Other' and murder it so that the nation can have more and those people can have less
Sounds pretty good. When do we start?

>>18054124
Fascism is when the government is racist, and when the police are racist and mean.

>>18054593
Autarky is not part of fascism. That's national-socialism.

You're right about National-syndicalism.
In fact, fascism is merely another word for National-Syndicalism

So far 90% of anons in this thread has failed to understand this.

They merely describe fascism based on its 'National' tenant, and completely ignore the 'Syndicalism' part.

>>18054619
Myth.
Fascism has nothing to do with race. That's National-Socialism.
There's nothing in the doctrine of fascism that outlines anything about race.

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>>18054124
It emerged out of a cultural revolt against the Enlightenment heritage of the 18th century by dissident (non-Marxist) socialists who sought to turn back "cultural decadence" and associated ideas like pacifism, universalism, and rationalism by mobilizing people through myths and "heroic" violence. Initially they thought a proletarian revolution would do this but decided that proletarians were easily corrupted by labor parties and liberal parliaments, so they left the class stuff behind and looked to the nation-state as being the only power that could mobilize the "spirit" of their rebellion and convert it into a form of rule. This was hyper-charged by World War I considering the massive mobilization powers of the state in terms of the military and propaganda and industry and so forth. Mussolini took those idea while also making it less "rebellious" and more instrumental to the reactionary movement against communism, although he also saw fascism as having potential to drive modernization in a weak and fragmented Italy through nationalism and imperialism.

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>>18054124
fascism doesn't have a concrete meaning.
when mussolini "invented" fascism he was just winging it off of nationalist and populist sentiments, whatever was giving him the most support became part of fascism. broadly fascist or third positionist movements varied from nation to nation because they each had their own sentiments during the rise of fascism in the '20s and '30s.
it's nebulous by design, both for fascist and anti-fascists, because fascists can put whatever they need into fascism if it will get them more support and anti-fascists can put whatever they don't like into fascism.
the only core tenant of fascism is nationalism.

>>18054124
Western Socialists answer to Russian Communism

>>18054653
>the only core tenant of fascism is nationalism.

No it isn't moron.
If that was the case then nationalism would simply equal fascism, which it doesn't.

Fascism is just another word for National-syndicalism, and for some reason you're excluding the syndicalism part, which is half of the ideological doctrine of fascism.
To simply say that fascism as a state ideology stands for nothing except oppressive nationalism is extremely distorted. It means that every state which has authoritarian nationalism is fascist, which is ridiculous. Saudi Arabia isn't fascist. China isn't fascist.

Again, you're leaving out a core tenant of fascism for reasons I do not know. Fascism means National-Syndicalism.

>>18054423
I'm comparing more specifically the Soviet Union and Nazism. The difference being minimal.
Both authoritarian sure, but targets and economics differed.
The reason why it just comes off as authoritarian is because it is in essence authoritarian. It is also quite a broad topic. Which is why there is no clear definition.
From britannica:
>there is no universally accepted definition of fascism. Nevertheless, it is possible to identify a number of general characteristics exemplified by fascist parties and movements between 1922 and 1945. Many of these characteristics have also been common among fascist groups since the end of World War II..

>>18054124
Authoritarian nationalism and violence go without saying, but there's more to it.
Private enterprise is allowed, even praised, BUT it's subject to the State. It's not a centrally planned economy, and factories are mostly privately owned, but when the State tells you to jump, you ask how high, not how much they'll pay. And it WILL tell you to jump.

>>18054205
Not really.
Communist regimes such as the soviet union emphasise internationalism, rather than nationalism. And focus on the class struggle, wanting the various classes subsumed into, or subservient to, the working class. Facism meanwhile downplays this class struggle, to focus on what they regard to be the overall benefits of the nation, which is part of my point about opposing the individual needs.
These claims of internationalism and class struggle was also often used by regimes such as Nasser and idi Amin as well. Both of whom were supporters of Pan-Arabism and Pan-Africanism respectively (the internationalist aspect of the first may be debated, but is irrelevant given the second point) and supported intrests the working class, rather than subsuming these individual interests into the overall nation.
Pinochet meanwhile is frequently referred to as a fascist, dunno why you mentioned him.
Also you don't mention any, but there are authoritarian regimes that do respect traditional institutions, the Arab gulf monarchies for example.

>>18054124
>Class Collaboration not mentioned once ITT
As long as you have a basic understanding of Hegel and Marx you can get started on Sorel immediately. Read some basic fascist texts like the Doctrine or the Charter of Carnaro. Then read the works of Historian A James Gregor
The only way to understand Fascism is to read what the fascists, and the people who would inspire the fascists, actually wrote.

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Fascism
>Social organism, the society is a organism individuals are cells, family are tissue, institutions organs, capitalists the brains, the state the heart, the workers the hands etc. Good example of this is the end of the Fascist propaganda film Metropolis.
This is why Fascists hate minorities and such, because they are "foreign elements" and "viruses" that attack the body.
>Futurism, Fascists largely disliked traditionalism, conservatism. Viewed themselves as creating a new Futurist society and the ubermensch to be the new human to inhabit such a society. This is why Fascists often were actually pretty socially progressive in many aspects, tonnes of Nazis were total degenerate faggots and sex party types, rampant nudity FKK stuff, Environmentalists, Vegans etc.
>Muh combat hero worship. Fascists worship "heroism" this generally being that your worth was based on your heroric actions in combat
>Muh Master morality. Fascists typically disliked Christianity for being a slave morality, they wanted to revive pagan mythology which they saw as heroic master mythology.
The reason other definitions of "Fascism" are dogshit is because Leftists love calling everything Fascist and they don't want to just admit there were functionally only 2 Fascist states, Italy and Nazi Germany. No, Franco was not a Fascist, he was an authoritarian rightoid, the same as Pinochet.
Fascism as an ideology died largely with WW2, with Fascist remnants being sublimated into the Liberal order to put down organized labour and kill Soviets. This is why so many paperclip families are family dynasties of Western State Departments, NATO, Police and think tanks. The modern legacy of Fascism is your typical LGBT flag waving shitlib center-rightoid who pushes Neoconservative foreign policy and seethes about "left populism" and "russian misinformation".

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>>18054124
here ya go

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>>18055349
another

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>>18055352
moar

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>>18055355
das it mane

>>18054150
>Carries out most of its rulings outside of the rule of law
I find this untrue. Even under the nazis people had trials and judges (they wer3 all in house of course) but the pretence of following the law was kept to

>>18054360
>Against Jewish owned businesses.
Against capitalism as a worldview, including capitalist jews and goyim.
>WTF does that mean?
That you've chosen to post Britannica. Are you having ESL issues?
>muh definition
Imagine thinking a highly controversial worldview is going to have a universally agreed upon definition and posting it in a thread about defining said worldview.
Anyway, the third definition you referenced is the non-loose definition I referred to. The first definition is literally only defined by being a total dictatorship. Franco and Salazar, or any absolute monarch fall into that definition much more than Hitler and Mussolini. They had way more legal power.
>>18054378
>>18054379
That's a strange way to spell "you were right", but I'll take it.

>>18055683
>Against capitalism as a worldview, including capitalist jews and goyim.
He spoke a big game, but it practice it wasn't anti-capitalist.
>That's a strange way to spell "you were right", but I'll take it
Except I didn't. I says that it was a compromise between capitalism and communism. But, in practice it wasn't a compromise to communism. If anything, anti-union, which is not really communistic.

>>18054124
Authoritarian, Nationalist, Non-Marxist, Socialism

>>18055729
Improve your English, then get back to me.

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>>18054124
I've got you senpai.

>>18054124
Fascism is a grift. It doesn't exist

>>18055363
And they also ignored and skirted the law all the time, even after coming into power. You really need only look at the night of the long knives, but other examples, such as extrajudicially sending people to concentration camps after they'd finished their prison sentences, or straight up ignoring what judges told them would be illegal about the Aktion T4 program would be other examples.
They used the law when it was useful for them sure, but it was only ever a means to an end, and they had not actual commitment or support for it.

>>18055800
Maybe come up with a better argument?

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>>18056168
>the revolutionary people who want to overthrow the fake and gay system have no respect for the fake and gay system
no shit

>>18055951
That's just nationalism. Why wouldn't we just call it nationalism then?

It's just a word, right?
There's no reasons people's attitudes, behavior and policies would fall neatly within a definition

If you're using the word "fascism" correctly or not, would depend on your goals when saying it

>>18054124
An ultra-nationalist and authoritarian form a of corporatism which was present in Italy shortly before and during WW2.
All other statements of "fascism" are spurious attempts to use the negative connotations of the term to either erroneously connect all authoritarian regimes together, or as a pejorative for a disliked political or judicial stance.

>>18056310
Not all nationalism is anti-socialist, anti-feminist or pro-dictatorship.

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>>18054124
Pic related.

>>18056345
Well, neither is fascism necessarily any of those things either.
They are common characteristics of fascism.

>>18056345
Fascism is always pro-dictatorship (unless you're a modern leftist that labels literally everything le bad as "fascism"). And, while fascism indeed can have some socialist and feminist elements, it's always explicitly against class warfare and gender conflict.

>>18056381
>>18056353

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>>18054124
Fascism is what happens when men do progressivism. It is therefore focused on the worship of strength (usually the image of strength rather than actual strength, fascists/progs tend to be retarded and obsessed with optics), national unity, and focus on/hatred of foreign enemies whether they're real, exaggerated, or imagined.

Conversely modern post-war wokism is what happens when women do progressivism. It is therefore focused on the worship of weakness, national disunity and mutual hatred, and focus on/hatred of your own people.
>TFW history happens first as tragedy, then as farce.

>>18056573
The first one sounds more like communism.
The second part for the first thing sounds more like fascism.

>>18056670
Fascism vs Communism is basically a matter of rhetoric, there's very little actual difference between them - especially post-Stalin/Mao.

>>18056682
That's an insane take. They don't manifest the same way, they don't have the same technical or strategic objectives, they don't cater to the same ethical values or principles, they only tangentially draw on soldier and worker archetypes because of mass mobilization in the wars, and more.

From the point of a liberalist screaming at the world, you have to say this though.

>>18054124
>Can /his/ explain to me what fascism is?
Lol, fed thread again. Please stop existing op.

>>18056682
I'd say that's more the case with Nazism and the Soviet Union.
Otherwise fascism has a litany of characteristics.
Like,
Communism tends to be more about class and workers.

>>18056573
White nationalist can't be Fascists.
No race supremacist can be a Fascists.
Fascists does not believe in race in the first place.
When Hitler told Mussolini to send the Jews to him, Mussolini just said all the Jews converted to being Italian, so I have no Jews to send"

>>18056696
>Communism tends to be more about class and workers.
Where did the 'Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party' start again?

>>18056727
Literally as the DAP, so the first word is "German". It's was a nationalist party.
In contrast, commie parties often call themselves "of Germany".

>>18056759
That's a good detail I'd never consciously considered.

bump

>>18056381
>Fascism is always pro-dictatorship
Fiume wasn't a dictatorship and the BUF wanted a form of pseudo-Syndicalist parliamentarianism
>>18056670
>The first one sounds more like communism.
Both Fascism and Communism are forms of Socialism.

>>18054210
It’s a specific flavor of authoritarianism what did you think it was exactly ?

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>>18054124
>Can /his/ explain to me what fascism is?

The only seemingly functional, accurate, predictive, and most importantly 'concise', definition of Fascism I've ever seen was pic related, Umbarto Eco's check list of Ur-Fascism. Fascism is so difficult to pin-point or define, for most everyone, because it's all 14 of these specific things happening at once. If any of those things are missing it stops being (specifically) Fascism.

>>18058163
>Cult of tradition
>Rejection of modernism
What a fucking retarded definition lmao. Read A James Gregor or better yet, Giovanni Gentile and De Ambris for an actual definition made by people who actually know what the fuck they are talking about

>>18054613
>muh brown people
Obsessed

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A set of authoritarian regimes in the interwar and ww2 period where fascist ideology inspired by Mussolini and later Hitler's NSDAP played a central role. They were characterized by the decline in Monarchism, failure of democracy and the support of great war veterans, like Mussolini and Hitler themselves, who composed their blackshirts and brownshirts and assisted in their rise to power.

Due to ww2 fascism rose in notoriety and many try to pin their enemies as "fascist" or sometimes adopt fascism purely for the shock value, but most of the points here >>18058163 could be pinned on any authoritarian regime really, even communist regimes. It is thus very ambiguous to use the term "fascist" outside of the 20s, 30s and 40s.

Their ideology was generally hyper-nationalist and viewed despotism and expansionism as justified. Mussolini flip flopped on racial rhetoric and had a jewish gf, but Hitler went all in, suggesting the racial element is largely his design, otherwise candid and open discussion of eugenics and race was not exceptional compared to democratic liberals at the time.

Other fascist parties were generally shills for Hitler and Mussolini while ww2 fascist regimes were puppets of Germany. Falangism was marginal in Spain and only tolerated to get aid from Germany and Italy and deter aggression, Metaxism was superficial for similar reasons, and did not succeed as Italy would invade Greece anyway. The accusation that Pinochet was fascist is spurious considering Pinochet's desire for support from erstwhile Nazi Germany's mortal enemies and lack of interest beforehand.

Unironic fascists like Léon Degrelle and Otto Ernst Remer continued to exist after the war, but only had very small followings.

>>18054124
no i literally cant
it is so overused and watered down that it has lost all meaning

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It's weird how the fakest European countries became the most fash. Italy and Germany were invented in the 1870s.

Maybe it's just cope.

>>18054124
it's when white people bad

>>18054124
Something invented by Italians and ruined by Germans.

>>18058119
Except they're not.
Part of the reason why is that in the case of socialism, it is first and foremost about the workers. From there it's a matter of how the authoritarianism develops. In which case it may or may not necessarily. Most of the time it does, but theoretically it doesn't have to.
Not so with fascism. It's is essentially authoritarian in nature.
But, a bigger point I'd like to make is in their relationship to communism. In which case socialism tends to be informed by Marxism. But, fascism tends to admonish Marxism. Furthermore, the goal of socialism is to eventually becomes communism. This is not present in fascism. Fascism skews towards totalitarianism.
What makes these different is that communism seeks to bring about the end of state, but fascism seeks to bring about adherence to the state.

>>18060400
Someone has to hold the rootless international Europhobic violence to an appropriate minimum

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>>18054124
Politicial biologism. The State is a living creature with all the related elements. The people are the cells of the State, individualism has no part in Fascism. The people must be physically healthy and strong to mantain the biological functions of the State. Every cell has a duty and job that is determined by the needs of the State: people choosing their own destiny in spite of the State is like bacteria going wild, they must be dealt with. The language and culture make the DNA of the State: every cell must be wholly formed of this DNA, or else it is not a cell, but a parasite. There are viruses and infections, like jews and communism, who constantly attack the body of the State and must be purged. Traitors are a literal cellular cancer that must be destroyed even if it takes innocent cells with it. The State must devour smaller states and prey on land as nutrition - war is feeding, and always justified.
If any of these elements are missing, then it is not Fascism.

>>18058163
His Ur-Fascism definition is a hysterical feminine outburst and not a reliable definition. Eco was a retard. Watch his "lessons" on conspiracy theories, for example according to him MKUltra absolutely wasn't a thing. A couple years later CIA came out and said "yes we did it, so?"

>>18054124
Palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism, where a mythologized past is resurrected through a revolutionary, totalitarian state that subsumes the individual to the organic nation.

>>18054620
Mussolini made autarky the primary economic model of Fascist Italy. Autarky is an essential and inevitable part of Fascism.