What is a "human"? As far as I can tell because I believe in evolution "human" is a spectrum or continuum and not a binary. I think proto humans demonstrate this I ask because meat eaters will say the difference between cows and humans that makes it okay to eat one and not the other is "being human" but they don't believe it's extremely bad to kill modern humans and somewhat bad to kill Chimpanzees, and a little bad to kill pigs (we're both mammals) and not at all bad to kill chickens. They don't believe in gradually increasing moral worth as someone becomes more similar to humans. They just believe it's bad to kill modern humans and fine to kill all other non human creatures. But They believe "being human" is binary.
>What is a "human"?A miserable pile of secrets.
>>18059914but the ability to reason seems like a spectrum not binary
Proto-humans should be considered as slightly less than modern humans.
>>18059907This isnt complicated at all unless you go forcibly deconstructing it and you can do that with anything, its perfectly clear what a human is and theres not even any moral dimension to this, you might as well ask what is a horse and to what degree is it not a zebra, this is semantic bullshit, you know what a human is, youre human and you lived arround humans all your life, its a completely absurd question
>>18060196Slightly less human then modern humans? Should chimpanzees be considered somewhat less human then modern humans? What about other mammals? Fish?
>>18060227>This isnt complicated at all unless you go forcibly deconstructing it and you can do that with anything, its perfectly clear what a human is and theres not even any moral dimension to this, you might as well ask what is a horse and to what degree is it not a zebra, this is semantic bullshit, No because I don't think rights or moral consideration should be assigned on the basis of species or "being a horse" I believe rights or moral consideration should be assigned on the basis of things like being conscious and ability to suffer, experience well-being, etc etc >you know what a human is, youre human and you lived arround humans all your life, its a completely absurd questionNo. Read some sci fi
>>18060241this isnt sci fi anon, youre asking whats a human, a human is a human, what you believe about consciousnes or suffering or the moon landing dosent enter into it
>>18059907"human" is a spectrum or continuum and not a binary.Historically speaking yes. At current, it's binary because all humans are fully reproductively compatible with each other. Had history gone different, we might have a species of people somewhere that are kinda human, but not compatible. Like, imagine if native americans and old worlders just couldn't have children, stuff like that. Or if they could, but the result would be sterile like a mule. Then we'd have it really hard to define "human".
>>18059907okay, so since sub Saharan Africans never invented the wheel does that mean they are less evolved than Homo erectus?
>>18060295yeah
>>18060289Probably it would be the opposite, like if there were millions of sasquatches and sixfingered giants and trolls and whatever roaming arround we would have a very distinct category for us as opposed to them, or human as opposed to non human, and the various hybrid types, same as we know a horse from a mule or a donkey, as things are the understanding of what is a human was realy broad trough history, apparently in ancient times they often assumed higher primates are simply hairy humans, chartagians thought gorrilas are some strange tribe of people for example, which tells you something about what other humans there must have been like, then it was just as easy to switch it arround and say some people arent human, just cathegoricaly, usualy it was slaves, then there was that latin designation of 'genera horribilis' which was reserved for human populations that were seen as so bestial or dangerous they should be exterminated, fuck knows what kind of variations and variants all had to put up with each other
The old saw about "if they can interbreed, they're the same species" doesn't hold up if you are using it as a guide for esoteric interrogation of what the word "human" means. It's just a rule of thumb.Now that it is clear homo sapiens interbred with neanderthals and denisovians, you have to assume we bred (or attempted to) with whatever other hominids were around, and the likely did the same to one another. A better question is if our capacity for abstract thought got better in the most recent stages of human evolution, and whether or not your given hybrids got the shit end of that stick.On the other hand, we aspire to apply human rights to every kind of factory reject retard siamese twin basket case produced by arsenic in the water in Butte, Montana and everywhere else.Fun fact: The Neanderthal DNA that you fat kids talk about in every thread like this is almost all relic non-coding junk DNA just hanging on to the end of the helix and cannot be responsible for big variations in behavior
>>18060295Homo erectus invented the wheel?
>>18060289>Like, imagine if native americans and old worlders just couldn't have children, stuff like that. Or if they could, but the result would be sterile like a mule.What about the following claims?>Black Americans are a hybrid race of around 22% White ancestry. This is the cause of multiple negative health effects due to genetic incompatibility. Indeed, consistent with Haldane's rule, unmixed Blacks from Africa and White Americans do not have the same rate of birth problems that hybrid American Blacks have: "In 2005, the mortality rate for black infants was 4.4 times higher than that of white infants. African women who come to the United States and have babies experience the same low rate of infant deaths as white American mothers."Source: https://archive.is/oYZm9>Although Black-White mixes are not sterile and males are not absent, males (the heterogametic sex) are more rare than females.Source: https://archive.is/4KJg8>There are several genetic mechanisms which may cause outbreeding depression:>1. Two identical alleles at the same locus can in some cases be the alternative with the highest fitness ("homozygote advantage"/"underdominance"). This is the opposite of the effect which for other loci causes inbreeding depression.>2. Disruption of beneficial, synergistic interactions between loci ("coadapted gene complexes"). This is a more important cause of outbreeding depression than homozygote advantage. This effect is partly insidious since it will likely increase in strength over future generations as new genetic recombinations in each new generation break increasing numbers of such beneficial interactions.Source: https://archive.is/iZ5nS
>>18059914Evolution is fake
>>18060545That's an idiot paper. The low sex ratio is because males are more expensive for NPCs. It's why everyone on his was supposed to be euthanized
>>18060545>This effect is partly insidious since it will likely increase in strength over future generations as new genetic recombinations in each new generation break increasing numbers of such beneficial interactions./threadThat is why race mixing is actually suicide in slow motion. Remember, whensomeone encourages you to race mix theydoso because they want everyone like you to die.
>>18059907>What is a "human"?A member of the genus Homo. Only one species from that genus is alive today but other Homo species were also humans.
>>18060485No they didn't. They may have made boats but the wheel wasn't invented before agriculture.
If you're going to be vegan at least be like the Jains. Some won't even eat underground vegetables like potatoes because it harms little critters when you dig them up. Yet vegans are perfectly content to kill millions of bugs for their kale salad. Guess you think it's okay to kill things for your food too!
>>18060485Well, yeah!
>>18060289>Historically speaking yes. At current, it's binary because all humans are fully reproductively compatible with each other. This sounds like arbitrary and not binary? Can't two individuals be partially reproductively compatible with each other? What does "fully" mean?
>>18060932Genus seems arbitrary and made up >>18061014My understanding is Jains don't eat potatoes because they believe they contain unlimited souls or something. Most insects live net bad lives, they're short and full of lots of pain and very little well-being. More humans and more human infrastructure like farms and shopping malls is good because I see no good evidence there's more suffering, rights violations, etc on a farm then on wild land.
>>18059907This is just one of the many reasons why no one takes evolution seriously anymore. Do you really think you came from a lizard? That's just nonsense.
>>18059907this is fucking cringe
>>18061129That's literally the definition of a species, having offspring capable of reproduction.>Can't two individuals be partially reproductively compatible with each other? Yes, like I said, imagine a donkey and a horse. Can reproduce together, offspring cannot reproduce.
>>18061176>no one takes evolution seriously anymoreYou should try and talk to people outside your bible study class every once in a while anon.
>>18061232e-christians don't study the bible
>>18060912It just means the damage will gradually heal over time. Contrary to the ideology of what neolibs want, there is no scenario where the planet is filled with a bunch of mixed race people. Genetics shows that, after enough generations, the fertility of all of their offspring will fall sharply, compared to unmixed people. They will be unable to reproduce at some future point, and this is totally inescapable. I believe the vast majority of these people will be gone in a few centuries at most.>LTA4H, or "leukotriene A4 hydrolase" is found on chromosome 17. An allele of this gene increases the risk of heart attack (the #1 cause of death in America) in Blacks by more than 250%, but only 16% in Whites. The 30% of Whites with this allele have counteracting genes, while the 6% of Black Americans who obtained it (through outbreeding) do not.https://archive.is/RtzDl>The FDA have approved a heart failure drug called Bidil, but only for blacks, as blacks do not benefit from conventional heart failure drugs.https://archive.is/44SgJ>96-97% of whites have no African ancestry.https://archive.is/NPIyg
>>18061176why wouldnt he come from a lizard, couldnt god make people grow out of rocks? how is clay any better
>>18060295Some Abos forgot how to make fire and just had to wait for a lightning strike to try to get a flame, or embers.
>>18060263You’re not getting the argument retard
>>18059907The current bit of newspeak """they""" like to use is "Anatomically Modern Human", with no clear definition given. """They""" can't acktchually say "genetically related", much less identical, so they default to anatomy and go "Well, they all have 10 fingers and 10 toes, so they're the """same species""", despite countless genetic and other biological distinctions and differences. There are many types of "Black Peoples", POCs, et, al. found all over the world, but only White people can make other White people and White people have only ever come from one place on Earth, none of these are true for "blacks", or any other group of """anatomically modern humans""". /thread
>>18061222Wrong. There are many examples of different species that can and do cross-breed and make viable offspring, which can themselves reproduce. This is entirely for evolution to occur at all. There is no fixed definition for "speciation", but it is not an issue of reproduction itself.
>>18059907A member of the species Homo sapiens.it has been said that H. neanderthalensis was a different species but considering sapiens and neanderthalensis created fertile offspring, it is definitionally untrue that they are separate species. Defining them as H. sapiens sapiens and H. sapiens neanderthalensis is better.
>>18061847Evolution =/= "when two supposedly different species crossbreed."
>>18061840no i havent seen this crap ten times before in a hundred variations, go figure, OP is trying to go for some hypothetical scenario where this or that aspect, feature or quality of a being makes it so that you question whats human in so far as it would or wouldnt encompas said hypothetical, but cross referenced with whatever nonconected crap like can it be considered a person or does it experience this or is conscious of thatThis is all nonsensical since a unconscious human is still a human, a unformed human is also a human, a sick or retarded human is also human, a dead human is still a human, just dead, as opposed to a dead cow or a palette of bricks, etc... same as a limp horse is a horse and a retarded cat is a cat, rocks and wet rocks are both rocksIf were going into sci-fi then you can have mice spliced with human dna, thats not even sci-fi thats 1990s, or humans with bionic implants and salamander genes or alien moluscs or whateverthefuck, these are all unnecesary mental masturbations, we all know what a human is, its not some mystical meta-category
>>18061805it's not the same. you can come from the mind of god because he's all powerful. you can't come from a lizard because your a human and it's a lizard
>>18061929so god cant make things out of clay?
>>18061945the clay is not needed. god makes things out of his mind.
>>18061953so why cant he make lizards into humans? are you going to tell god how hes supposed to do things?
>>18061958he made man as an image of himself, not from a lizard.
>>18061969how do you know he didnt make lizards after his image own too?
>>18062001because lizards don't have souls.
>>18062010says who?
>>18062033you're just trolling now
>>18062056i know but i never got it exactly why humans have souls but other living things dont that part i could never put together, i know it says so in the bible and thats the end of it it just seems retarded without further elaboration, it basicaly comes down to some reductionist crap like prefrontal cortex functions
>>18060230Primates > dolphins and whales > elephants > felines
>>18061133>Genus seems arbitrary and made upEvery classification system is.
>>18059907>platyhelminthesNope platyhelminthes are protostomes not deuterostomes.
>>18061222I meant having offspring partially capable of reproduction. I think having offspring who can reproduce is not binary it's a spectrum or continuum
>>18062078This is why I think theists should be vegan and accept animals have souls and not be speciesist
>>18059907There are little, if any binaries in nature. Binaries exist in the human mind for more easy categorization.
>>18061886No, but without the ability for two "species" to cross, you can never create "new species". Evolution can ONLY happen to populations, not individuals, which means you need many individuals that can/do reproduce over time in a given place. Science. Learn it.
>>18063477Evolution is real
>>18061929>yourarguing with this retard is pointless
>>18061176Only literal subhumans pretend evolution isn't real.
>>18061822yeah about that
>>18064665Precisely. Yes, "different species" can make viable offspring (Lygers), but they're still different species and it would take countless individuals, many, many generations of exclusive crossing to create some sort of new, distinct organism, which could then breed with itself and always an only make itself. This has occurred once and only once in Human History in the form of White Europeans who are exclusive to one and only one place on earth and can only be made by pre-existing white people with no other combination even possible. Meanwhile, there are countless "POCs" and ways to make them. White People are one species. All other hominids are not that species. This is why all social, economic, religious and military issues are existential for White people, which is what all non-Whites (i.e. non-humans) fail to grasp. It's a function of their innate, genetic, intellectual inferiority, but it doesn't make it any less so./thread
>>18064860All races and ethnicities of humans can and do understand the laws of logic
>>18065035Correct. It's a defining feature, which means those that are incapable of doing so, such as the black African and Australian aboriginals, are not as they have no such behaviors. *Blacks admit they have no sense of the "future", and are therefore physically incapable of making "progress" (i.e. forward into the future). *Abos forgot how to make fire, didn't know how babies were made, did the most unspeakable abominations to each other and their children for no "logical" reason.*Neither group has been able to advance beyond the Stone Age despite centuries of contact with White People. No other groups on earth have these chronic problems. *the darker you are the "less homo sapien sapien" you are, and the less able you are to perform logic. /thread
>>18066015What race of subhumans makes this kind of illogical post on 4chan?
>>18066015racist fantasies
>>18066015>the darker you are the "less homo sapien sapien" you are, and the less able you are to perform logicthen surely you must be black
>>18066015even some non human animals are capable of simple counting
>>18066034 What race of subhuman replies ;) ?
>>18066056Irrefutable biological reality. I don't make the rules. I just win by them. Every. Single. Time.
>>18066147then surely I wouldn't have been able to make such a perfectly logical statement to begin with,,,,,,surely. I win again.
>>18066224So, you admit non-whites are non-human. Thank you for making my point for me. I win again.....again!
>>18059907>>18064665The correct detirmination for what makes different species is whether or not they can interbreed AND the offspring is able to breed back into both of the species of the parents. Speciation as a category cannot be deduced soley on things like phenotype or genetic distance, it has to be a difference on an essential ontological level. The purpose of life is to maintain itself and grow, and this process is done through reproduction, living beings differentiate themselves and draw the lines between species and variety through reproduction. In the wild you will find birds, fish, plants interbreeding with "different species", the extent to which it doesnt happen is because the specific type of variety needed in a given niche will be found in the population thats already closest living in that envionrment. Over time these niches may create the necessary divergence that constitutes them as distinct species but in sofar as this is not the case then no.>>18061841This post is medically retarded, I pity who ever wrote this.>but only White people can make other White people and White people have only ever come from one place on Earth"White people" came about from many millennia of migration into europe from the middle east, siberia, north africa, introduction of particular types of livestock, climate change and sexual selection. Which are all things by no means unique to europe but theirs nothing special besides the fact that they are identifiable more in a particular part of the world.
>>18066015Black people aren't that useless, think of them more like teenagers than adults, when it comes to everyday tasks or trial and error they do ok, but when it comes to lengthy complicated projects they are incapable. The African fisherman who utilized a canoe never wondered how far he could paddle or noted the wind assisting his movements, the few that did had few means or inspiration to go about it.
It's more pragmatic to think in terms of 'person' than human. Also, OPs image needs a smugjak on question mark guy
>>18066713 Wrong. There is no universally agreed upon definition of "speciation" and organisms are constantly being reclassified based on more precise analysis. I am also 100% correct about White people. They come from one place only, and can be made in one way only. Only Chihuahuas can make Chihuahuas, and only Gringos can make Gringos. All behavior is 100% genetic, as well. That's why pointers point, retrievers retrieve, hounds hound, Jews jew and Nogs nog. We even have entire fields of study called "Behavioral Genetics". Go look. I promise ;) /thread
>>18066354Human is a meaningless term I'm vegan and not racist or speciesist Race and species are made up rights should be granted on the basis of consciousness
>>18067679What about free will
