Where did the myth that ancient Greeks were nordics come from? I don't remember any historical Greeks being described as blue-eyed, and there are about 3 people described as having light hair. There are way more nobles and scientists among Northern Europeans who were described as having brown eyes or black hair. Then why doesn't anyone claim that north European civilization is brown, Nordic elites were Med, and so on?
>>18064167There are different versions of Nordicism. The stereotypical one is that ancient Hellenes and Romans were literally Nordic migrants from Scandinavia. The theory that I find more likely is that a lot of the current Greeks and Italians have been mutted to reduce the traits that made them impressive in Antiquity, and that those traits are now found most prevalently in Nordics (ie. Scandinavians + Northern Germany, Holland, etc.). Europeans are after all related peoples.Kinda like the situation in India, just way less extreme.
>>18064167You're not fooling anyone, Moshe.
>>18064185>traits that made them impressive in AntiquityKek>>18064208Begone, schizo
>>18064185I believe the differences are mainly:1) In the past, people with traits that made them contribute more to civilization were more prominent, nowadays this has changed2) Long-term corrupt and often foreign rule led to people's sense of ethnic community and trust in state-related institutions lessening and their materialistic side dominating. 3) Demographic changes did happen, but were not nearly as radical as you seem to imply. However, it took a long time to recover from them (assimilation of foreign elements always causes upheaval)However, I completely disagree with the whole "Nordic" stuff, there is no reason to believe ancienr Greeks and Romans were more Nordic-like than their modern descendants. If anything, Italy in particular experienced periods of Nordic or semi-Nordic settlement and even rule, and ancient Germanic tribes were not known for their rational, orderly nature, stable, prosperous rule or scientific achievements. The situation in India is completely different, as there were different groups of people living side by side and a fairly strict segregation.
>>18064167Several Greek gods were said to have blonde hair including Hercules, pigment analysis has shown that statues often had blonde hair and pink skin, etc. And yes, many Nordic elites were Italian/Spanish/French, Europe has had internal migration since time immemorial.
>>18064232The Germanic tribes were actually surprisingly technologically proficient.
Do people actually believe having blonde hair makes you inherently more clever or am I being memed?
>>18064227>guy prefers his own peopleNo shit.>>18064232>1) 2) 3)No particular disagreement there.>ancient Germanic tribes were not known for their rational, orderly nature, stable, prosperous rule or scientific achievements.No, but modern Nordics are. As a completely theoretical hypothesis, you could imagine ancient Meds having 100% on the "rational, orderly, stable, prosperous and scientific" scale, with Germanics (modern and ancient) having 80%. So the ancient Meds would see the Germanics as irrational and disorderly etc. But then if the ancient Meds suffer (for whatever reason) from a degradation over time that brings them down to 70%. Now the 80% Germanics are the most rational, orderly, stable, prosperous and scientific.In the same way, modern Nordics retain more Indo-European DNA than anyone else that I'm aware of, but they're still only 50% IE. They're WAY less IE than historical IE descendant populations, but they're still the most IE extant population now.
>>18064241This is true. The Cimbrian wars describe them as fully armored riders with ornate breastplates and helmets shaped like animals and so on. The Nordic Bronze Age is full of extremely complex metalwork.They just didn't build out of stone (wood is plentiful and stone is rare there) and relied on an oral tradition rather than writing, so we're left with little to marvel at compared to the marble and books of the Meds.
>>18064241Mainly when it comes to metalsmithing.>>18064261I am not sure if IE admixture is the reason for the progress of civilization. If memory serves me right, the highest IE admixture in Antiquity was found (at least among samples published so far) in the Steppe populations like Scythians and Sarmatians, who were known as fierce, warlike and hardy people, but not particularly sophisticated (with some exceptions like goldworking). Also, among modern populations IE admixture might be slightly higher in NW Europe, but it is almost equally high in some mountain tribes in Tajikistan and fairly high in some North Caucasians - more so than in, say, Southwestern France. So I am very cautious towards the "more IE = more civilized" hypothesis
>>18064299Samefag but forgot to mention possibly the most important part: ancient Greek samples so far have about half the Steppe of modern Greeks, on average. In Italy the difference is much smaller, with IA Italics having slightly lower Steppe (and slightly higher WHG) than modern Italians. In both cases, the main difference is the ancients having more EEF
>>18064167all the people that took greece in several migrations from whoever the 'pelazgi' were, were pie people, lots of them were probably bright eye colored and maybe even blond, same thing in much of the levant, those whoevers that spread out from central asia didnt just go to sweden, they spread all arround from france to iraq, this is the same thing the idea jesuses bloodline was 'white' comes from, at some point canan was conquered by some northern mountain peoples that came from further up arround the caucasus, same thing as greece, the thing that makes it absurd is the equasion of 'pie' and 'arian' with whatever some 1960s neonazi thought they should be cause hitler told him in a dream
Nordicists are niggers
The actual statues of Romans/Greeks all get detected as Italian/Greek by AI. The exception is some shitty digital reconstructions which get detected as British/Nordic.
>>18064299> So I am very cautious towards the "more IE = more civilized" hypothesisThat wasn't my hypothesis at all. It was a simple comparison.>>18064307That seems about right. European high civilization probably comes out of a very specific cocktail of European DNA combined with an ordered caste system.
>>18064337
>>18064337im sure if you took that last image, and walked got some zoomie yutubers to walk arround dublin, manchaster, stocholm, warsava, prague, zagreb, budimpest, belgrade, sofia, milan, torino, athens or barcelona theyd find like 50 guys look just exactly like that and half of them would be blond, same as that 'ghotic warrior' forensic reconstruct looks like every other east euro footbal hooligan
>>18064326>schizo we wuzzingcanaanites and their descendants (incl. jews) are not IE at all, save for ashkenazim who have absorbed some in relatively recent times. They're semites.> the thing that makes it absurd is the equasion of 'pie' and 'arian' with whatever some 1960s neonazi thought they should be cause hitler told him in a dreamAryan was just the term used at the time for Indo-Europeans, anon. Hitler didn't come up with it, it was just the word used at the time, just like people spoke of "blood" instead of "DNA" because the latter hadn't been discovered yet. Post-war, our benevolent overlords ridiculed the IE theory as nazi pseudoscience, but linguistics and archaeogenetics have certainly proven highly supportive of it.Your own post (prior to the jew thing) is supporting it.
>>18064339>ordered caste systemNot exactly, but we should always keep in mind that when speaking of "the ancient Greeks" or "the Romans" we are referring to a small subset of the population. I think that is the main difference; it's not that ancients were necessarily "better", it's that there were larger differences between segments of society, with the "lesser" ones being less prominent
>>18064167Arthur de Gobineau. His contemporaries mocked him for having dark, protruding, bug eyes.>In 1871, poet Wilfrid Scawen Blunt who met Gobineau described him thus:>"Gobineau is a man of about 55, with grey hair and moustache, dark rather prominent eyes, sallow complexion, and tall figure with brisk almost jerky gait. In temperament he is nervous, energetic in manner, observant, but distrait, passing rapidly from thought to thought, a good talker but a bad listener. He is a savant, novelist, poet, sculptor, archaeologist, a man of taste, a man of the world."His mother, Anne-Louise Magdeleine de Gercy, was the daughter of a non-noble royal tax collector whose family lived in Haiti, which made him fear that he was mulatto. Magdeleine cucked Gobineau's father as his private tutor and took his sisters away prostituting/scamming to support themselves, which made Gobineau the butt of jokes among his fellow aristocrats. Despite despising his cuckold father, Gobineau married Clémence Gabrielle Monnerot, the woman his best friend, Pierre de Serre, got pregnant and abandoned her.To cope with this, Gobineau had a hyper-focus on the Middle Ages, Islam and Norse paganism; one of his colleagues said of him:>"All of his aspirations were towards the East. He dreamt only of mosques and minarets; he called himself a Muslim, ready to make the pilgrimage to Mecca."Despite being very sympathetic to Medieval Catholicism and Islam, Gobineau abandoned Catholicism and in all seriousness began to worship the ancient pagan gods of the Vikings. And in his last book, Histoire de Ottar Jarl, he attempted to trace his ancestry back to Ottar Jarl, a Norwegian pirate settled in Normandy who was a member of a royal race that claimed descent from Odin.TL;DR Here we have the typical /pol/ autist, problems with his mother, going reeee boomer on his father, delusions of grandeur, fantasies about a romanticized past, sympathy for Islam, autist obsession with purity etc.
>>18064345The second one doesn't even look particularly Nordic or British, rather in between Italian, Balkan, German and Polish. Of course, the first looks more distinctly "Mediterranean", as in, not really passing in Northern Europe
>>18064233Those light-haired gods had brown eyes (except for Athena), that is very uncommon among nordics. And there are basically zero real Greeks who were described as blue eyed.
>>18064167Nordicism comes from nordic copers.Even classical anthropologists were divided, people like Grant, who were interested in coping and never analyzed a skull in their lives, were making up strange theories about caste systems, racial dilution and other BS.people like Coon, that was more interested in skulls, frankly identified the truth that we are aware of now thanks to aDNA, just from looking at skulls and comparing it to modern populations.Nordicism is akin to niggers claiming vikings were black. It's the same impulse.aDNA will anyway change these types of "sciences" making it hard sciences. Scientific papers rarely have significantly different results. The data is always the same, at most interpretations change.
>>18064352>>18064363The point is that there's an inherent bias in making Greeks/Romans to look more Nordic. They change the facial features in the digital reconstructions to look more Nordic too. Hair/eye color doesn't change your ethnicity. A blond Italian still looks Italian.
>>18064359That's exactly what an ordered caste system is though.
>>18064339There was no caste system by DNA in europe, there were nobles and non nobles. Mycenaeans elite samples from the palace of nestor are indistinguishable from a random mycenaean you could find buried. They are literally run of the mill.
>>18064375>that is very uncommon among nordics
>>18064389Nordics were not anywhere near ancient greece. You don't need to over obsess on statues or badly made reconstructions. We have scientific data.
>>18064167>There are way more nobles and scientists among Northern Europeans who were described as having brown eyes or black hair. Then why doesn't anyone claim that north European civilization is brown, Nordic elites were Med, and so on?Meds don't have inferiority complex about their history so they don't need to claim other achievements.
>>18064362this makes so much sense its not even funnyin the balkans people would say during the 90is with all the bullshit going on, the only ethnicaly clean family is the one where the postman never came
>>18064384the point is the notion of 'nordic' is made up bullshit, scandiavian know what they look like no one has to tell them, all euros look like what they look like, the term 'nordic' is a kind of empty signifier, fuckers that made up the term 'white' didnt even think scandinavians are white
>>18064388>there were nobles and non nobles.That's a caste system.>by DNA in europeI can't say whether that's true or not, but as a European, I can certainly tell the upper classes from the lower classes at a glance in pretty much any country I've visited. There's at least a strong phenotypical difference. If you go to countries with mixed populations like France or Spain, it is very obvious. Less so in places like Scandinavia.>Mycenaeans elite samplesThat's a pretty specific sample kekIf we're doing niche examples, the Spartans are famous for having a clearly racial caste system, so there's your Mycenaean counter.
>>18064392Do you not know how greentexting works? The part that I highlighted is what I'm commenting on, newfag.
>>18064415No a caste system is far more complicated and implies no social mobility. There are nobles to this day in europe, they look normal in their countries, and if they took a dna test, they'd be average from their region, because population tend to homogeneize.Spartans were not noted to ever look different from the rest of greeks, nor macedonians, and in fact their DNA is similar to the rest of samples from the region.Just stop coping.
>>18064411>the point is the notion of 'nordic' is made up bullshitshalom>ScandinaviaScandinavia is not a land racially exclusive to Nordics, even before modernity.
>>18064167>scientists among Northern Europeans who were described as having brown eyes or black hair. Then why doesn't anyone claim that north European civilization is brown, Nordic elites were Med, and so on?Science and philosophy are tedious mental labor, it is merely hoeing a field in the mind. The point of ruling over the masses is that they do all the hard work.
>>18064439
>>18064426the notion of 'nordic' pertains to the idea that a imaginary race of superhumans spread from somewhere where the fucking eskimos live, and went trough north europe down to asia and all the way to the indian ocean building civilisations everiwhere they took a shit, its mickey mouse crap made up by 19th century hacks and has nothing to o with how ethnogenesis works or how pie epeople spread arround the world, it might as well be about aliens sending ufos from the arctic
>>18064423>a caste system is far more complicated and implies no social mobility.Not necessarily. From Merriam Webster:>2a: a division of society based on differences of wealth, inherited rank or privilege, profession, occupation, or race...sooo?>There are nobles to this day in europe, they look normal in their countriesHave you been?>Spartans were not noted to ever look different from the rest of the greeksIrrelevant goalpost move. The helots are clearly a different ethnos.>stop copingI don't know what I would even be coping about, but you seem to be getting a bit flustered.
>>18064447It absolutely is not. You're thinking of Tilak's work. Nordic is just a racial term for the Germanic speaking peoples of Scandinavia and to a certain extent, Northern Germany, Holland, etc. Nordics use it as an endonym (and others have used it as an exonym) for centuries. What do you think the first syllable in Norway or Normandy refers to?
>>18064461I get flustered when I talk with retards. It doesn't matter how much you "ragebait" or "troll" here. Mines aren't debate points but a declaration of victory. Nordix existed in history from 1500 to 2010, and then they got genocided by ashke jews. They didn't exist as a serious political entity before and they won't after.
>>18064461this is a frequent problem lots of european nationalists have when they try to consolidate some mythology over how their nation became 'a nation' since it seems there were layers upon layers of small, marginal even, minorities, that ruled large areas, as nobility, or warrior casts, or just whoever was the cohort of a wictorious warlord, so for some decades its huns, then it might be goths then its avars etc, but just logisticaly this could never have been more than a small subset of the population, and genetics show the population didnt change that much, in some regions it didnt seem to significantly change since before roman times
>>18064477>I get flustered when I talk with retards.>Proceeds to kvetch a bunch of retardationWhat did jacob mean by this?
>>18064474then what does it have to do with grece or italy or egipt?
>>18064480Well, modern nationalism is gay and retarded. It's all downstream from race, not nation-state. If we're going to do "nationalism" (ie. ethnic in-group preference), it has to be done concentrically and racially, not based on some relatively recent (in the grand scheme of things) national boundary dictated by this or that nobleman's third cousin's pet dog's previous owner's grandfather having assassinated the rightful heir and seized that duchy.
>>18064167Why do most depigmented Europeans look Mongoloid, most similar to Savolaxid? When did they become depigmented?
>>18064495>It's all downstream from race, not nation-state.*In reality, everything is downstream from race, not nation-state.>>18064488Look up terms you don't understand on your own time. I'm not a search engine.
>>18064499the terms are bullshit, theres people that actualy deal with this crap, its not some online hobby
>>18064511Have you considered just going back?
>>18064523where?
When, Dalits?
>>18064565To wherever you're from, so you dont have to "actually deal with this crap".
No way Neo-European "South/West European" Araplar think they look Graeco-Roman.
Shitskinlar be like:>Saar, I'm a shitskin because I'm Yamnaya, saar.
>>18064580>>18064918>>18064921Tatar schizo
>>18064167>Nordicism
>>18064939Shitskin.
Raped and cucked shitskin Araps.
>>18064918AI doesn't agree with your delusion.
>>18064167>>18064185Neptune & Dyeus were the gods of CwC and Yamnaya respectively.When the overpopulated coast of the north sea decided to move eastward along the steppelands in 4000BC, they started a conflict with those that already lived there.CwC lost the war for the power to rule in the southeast, leading the Dyeus-worshipping steppe peoples to invade the Aegean and become greeks.tldr;the Titanomachy was a battle between Funnelbeakers and Epigravettians, the source inspiration for Aesir & Vanir,- with the Jotnar always having been Anatolian herders that birthed both sides.
>>18065744no
>>18064167It came fron Germany in the latter half of the 1800s, up to the 1940s. It was a German Chauvinist social movement where the Germans sought out a way to make themselves the center point of European history, as a contrast to the perception that Germany was a side show to the real story in France and Rome that was common before. It got adopted by people today, because of Nazi LARPers that repeat anything they see that Nazis said or propagandized about. If it wasn't for people that wished to be Hitler's best friend, Nordicism would be dead, because it was just a product of 19th century German nationalism, and not a serious field of historical study.
>>18064167Well, it's not a myth. Ancient Greeks and Romans were white and then got muttified by predominantely Indian, East Iranian, and Sub Saharan geneflow mediated through Near Eastern traders (not those) over millennia.Romans and Greeks before them held some incredibly steppe herder like tradition. When Romans spoke badly about the northern barbarians they didn't speak about race but fashion, urbanisation, and culture. While when speaking about the Southern civilisations they did often speak about race in the beginning and about Gods which they couldn't really interpret like they did with the Gauls and later Germans.We have DNA from the ancient romans showing as much. They of course had more EEF and paleo European DNA but there is a noticeable shift toward the Eastern Mediterranean beginning in the late republic.
>>18064337>>18064345>by AIyou fucking midwit copecel
>>18064399I never got this claim by meds. That nords don't have culture. the last 1500 years of human history have been defined almost exclusively by white people. no other race has managed to split the world between four nations. three of whom were ruled by very close family relations, which you could imagine were one unfortunate accident away from being ruled by the same person.
>>18064580IEs are inherently somewhat mongoloid because of ANE. afaik your average nord has 15-25% of clearly asiatic DNA through ANE.any IE elite would represent this to some degree.
>>18065854Moshe, moshe, moshe, if it was pure propaganda, surely the heckin ebil Hitlerites would have made Germany the center, rather than Scandinavia.
>>18065884>they were Nordic AIIIEEEEEEAI is not faceblind like you.
>>18065845i know that epigravettian is periodically false terminology, but idc.cope, this is the truth.
>>18065921Scandinavia was seen as a cultural outpost for Germany, and it being comparatively underdeveloped versus Germany itself, lent credence to the idea that it carried the 'racial spirit' of the ancients most strongly. There is also the undeniable fact that Germany was a melting pot of ethnicities in a way that they could more plausibly deny that Scandinavia wasn't. There's no way around the reality that Germany had tons of Slavic and Gallic and Italic influence, but the Scandinavians comparatively were more isolated, so they were more easily described as 'pure'. There's also that the Norse myths were being widely read in German for the first time in this time period, and they were obviously Scandinavian and were the only real source for ancient Germanic beliefs out there. German mythology had to be estimated working backwards from what the Eddas contained, with some patchwork provided from works like the Nibelungenlied to try and add some continental character (this eventually culminating in the hybrids of Wagner). Don't be a dullard. The admission that Scandinavia retained more of the 'ancient Aryan character' than Germany itself was not something that German Chauvinists would have found worth crying over. Because Scandinavia was seen as within the German sphere of influence.
>>18065889>split the world between four nationsFrench and Iberians are not white
>>18065881>We have DNA from the ancient romans showing as much. They of course had more EEF and paleo European DNA but there is a noticeable shift toward the Eastern Mediterranean beginning in the late republic.There are half east med guys in the Roman kingdom already.And why do you ignore the fact ancient Greeks were middle easterners since the beginning?
>>18066247None of that explains why - if they were just lying anyway - they didn't invent central-Germanicism that placed them as the most important people, rather than make a neighboring people the most important one (when the alleged reason is to make themselves the most important).You can easily imagine a propaganda piece that explains that the specific combination of racial traits in Germans makes them particularly suited to rule Europe. This btw is a lot closer to what many German NatSocs were saying at the time: many of them were simply German or Germanic "chauvinists", some of them were Nordicists, some of them were Western Europaboos, etc. It varied.National chauvinism was the default back then. For the German scholars to identify an out-group to be chauvinistic about breaks the trend.
>>18067070The mixture hypothesis wouldn't work because it would be admitting that the French, Slavs, and Italians had interbred (often forcibly) with the Germans. Which would cut down the idea that Germany had a long and illustrious independent history. Which was the entire focus of the chauvinism. Everyone knew that the French had dominated Germany at many times in history. Admitting that included sexual mixing, almost certainly rape, would be emotionally painful. The Scandinavians weren't seen as a separate people, but as an extension of the Germans. An Indian reservation for the Aryans when the bulk of the population was centered in Germany that unfortunately had lost its purity but was working to regain it. Let me reference the fairly deranged Anglo-Israelism, as an example of an ethnic supremacy movement that integrated another ethnicity in the mix. Where the Anglos created a chauvinist movement that didn't even just empower a half-subjugated neighbor, but instead the Jewish people who lived on the other side of the continent.
>>18067370>The mixture hypothesis wouldn't workThe racial theories of the NSDAP did see Germans as a combination of different races though, so you're wrong. Look up the book translated as "SS Race Theory" for example.https://library.frenschan.org/book/42>The Scandinavians weren't seen as a separate people, but as an extension of the Germans.May I see a source for this claim? Scandinavians are clearly Germanic, and were seen as such, but they were not seen as German to my knowledge.>Anglo-IsraelismCompletely different, in that the bongs here claimed that they had an equal share in israelite identity to the jews, making them co-equally israelites. Also, it's obvious psyop invented by jews to get the bongs to give them Palestine, so it's not really that comparable to an organic theory of race.
>>18064185The problem with this idea is that, even if genetic change did happen over millenia, it's not like ancient samples are any close to today's nordics.Iron age Roman samples are closer to today's northern italians and Mediterranean coast Spaniards than to today's central and South Italians, sure, but they are still closer to today's South italians than to nordics.This supposedly huge "mutting" over 2000 years amounts to the difference between an average guy from Rome today to a guy from Barcelona, not one from Oslo.
>>18064167>Explain NordicismSure, that is easy... The brown skinned, race mixed detritus inhabiting formally white regions are insecure and retarded, so they lash out at the their betters while trying to claim they have legitimacy. That is nordacism, a perverse projection and inversion of the truth, crafted by the dark to destroy the light.
>>18067481>Many people in our folk cannot be absolutely assigned to one or another race. In each folk are found – next to examples who are in appearance racially pure – the individual races in more or less mixed form....>[But] The portion of Nordic blood in the hereditary makeup of the German folk is about 50%.>Furthermore family trees teach us: EACH GERMAN HAS NORDIC BLOOD IN HIM. So the German folk is, in the truest sense of the word, a blood community....>And there we determine: already just numerically the Reich marches far ahead of all other folks in respect to the Nordic portion.>With natural right Germany can claim the leadership of the predominantly Nordic-Germanic folks.From your link. This is representative of the German view. It was undeniable that Germany is ethnically mixed. But the line was that Nordics made up the core bloodline of the nation that all had links back to regardless of any 'hybridizing'. And that, regardless of that mixing, Germany as the strongest Germanic nation has leadership over the others. Including the Scandinavians. They were purer, but they were also provincial and distant. Isolated and small in number compared to the empires of the continent. Germany consistently exerted significant political influence over the Scandinavian countries throughout the 1800s and early 1900s.Attributing Anglo-Israelism to pure conspiracy is foolish. It obviously had true believers who worked to if from a Christian background. The difference is that the Germans pushed aside Christianity to some extent and focused on pre-Christian times as a source for identity, while the Anglos dove deeply into Christian myth. They used Christian myth as a background for justifying Anglo dominance over others, in the same way that German chauvinists used Nordic theory. Similarly there was some 'kindness' paid to the Scandies in Anglo-Israeli ideology, where they were considered fellow descendants of the Lost Tribes.
>>18067630>From your linkExactly. So assuming this book is even slightly representative of at least some of the NS German views (I have read others that support it), they saw themselves as a racially mixed nation. And you now agree that they did not see Scandinavia as part of Germany (although of course it is part of the greater Germanic world). Would you now not agree that it would have been preferential for German chauvinists to - if they were solely motivated by chauvisnism - to run with this optimal-race-cocktail theory rather than a pure Nordicist one?>Attributing Anglo-Israelism to pure conspiracy is foolish. It obviously had true believers who worked to if from a Christian background.There is absolutely no reason why psyops can't have true believers. Look at the Q thing for the magatards. Clearly that's a psyop, and clearly it has true believers.>they were considered fellow descendants of the Lost Tribes.By necessity, given that the Anglos, the Saxons, the Jutes and to a certain extent, the Normans are Nordics. It would have been impossible for the bongs to larp as israelites without also slandering the Nordics as israelites.
>>18064362>His mother, Anne-Louise Magdeleine de Gercy, was the daughter of a non-noble royal tax collector whose family lived in Haiti, which made him fear that he was mulatto. Magdeleine cucked Gobineau's father as his private tutor and took his sisters away prostituting/scamming to support themselves, which made Gobineau the butt of jokes among his fellow aristocrats. Despite despising his cuckold father, Gobineau married Clémence Gabrielle Monnerot, the woman his best friend, Pierre de Serre, got pregnant and abandoned her.
>>18067501Bait
>>18064167unemployed swedish trolls and 19th century germans trying to change history
>>18067489It's pretty close
>>18067370More like the French got raped by the Germanics lol. Franks and such. Then Charlemagne's empire which continued in the HRE i.e. Germany. The only clear times Germany was conquered was arguably by Napoleon (though ultimately defeated in the German campaign, with the biggest battle being the Battle of Nations), and obviously WW2, where Germany was thoroughly conquered, raped, and its soul defeated forever.
>>18069924no it isn't and the fact that you're using the regions heavily colonized by the greeks to prove a point is beyond pathetic. Kill yourself.
>>18069961I just picked two South Italian states. Campania and Calabria. Romans are almost equidistant from South Italians and Germans
>>18064167the ancient romans and greeks were genetically identical to the sintashta
>>18069924G25 distances are bullshit.
>>18070000That doesn't really contradict anything...
>>18070009The distance of Sicilians/South Italians is much shorter on Fst. That shouldn't be possible.
>>18070044An easily spotted inconsistency: >>18070000 English are closer than Cretans on G25 but Cretans are closer on Fst. Sicilians should also be roughly the same distance as Albanians and closer than Romanians and Thessaly closer than French.
>>18067664I did not say that the Germans believed themselves to be the most pure.It would be impossible to claim because obviously Germany had a long history of invading or being invaded. But the point was not to draw attention to it. But Nordic theory relied on that backbone of heritage that they claimed proved German dominance over the world. That the Scandinavians held 'purer blood' was not an issue because they were a corralled group that were either made to work with German, or stay neutral. If you can't claim purity, because objective reality makes that obviously impossible, then you can claim functional purity. You can't deny that the French influence on Germany. You couldn't deny that the Germans and Slavs had a long history of intermixing in the East. But you can say that regardless of that, the German people have a throughline of great Nordic blood that unites all members. You can deemphasize what type of influence the French invasions had and say that they were unimportant to the racial character of Germany. Or push down on the meaning of heavy Slavic-Germanic intermingling and what that would mean. The point wasn't to deny reality, but to press it down as unimportant to the key claims of the German chauvinists. The mixture hypothesis would be embracing that influence, but that wasn't what the Germans wanted to do, because it was fairly shameful to them at the time.Your example for how the Anglo-Israelite adherents dragged the Scandinavians alongside them, is representative for the Germans.
>>18070055>they were a corralled group that were either made to work with German, or stay neutral.Except that this is not even sligthly accurate to Scandinavian-German historical relations.>The mixture hypothesis would be embracing that influence, but that wasn't what the Germans wanted to do, because it was fairly shameful to them at the time.But that IS what the NS did though. I'm not following you, it seems to me that you're going back and forth quite radically.If the German Nordicist scholars were just straight propagandists, clearly they could have come up with a more German-centric Noble Lie instead of accepting a racial second place to the Nordic-Scandinavians. If the mixing theory (ie. NOT pure Nordicism) was shameful as you say, it wouldn't have been adopted by a German-chauvinist movement like NS unless they believed it true AND were willing to take the PR hit rather than lying.>Your example for how the Anglo-Israelite adherents dragged the Scandinavians alongside them, is representative for the Germans.I don't see how at all. Nordics are completely incidental to the bong we wuzzing, but are central to Nordicism (obviously).
>>18070226>>18070055Hans Gunther the leading Nazi race expert wrote a book Der nordische Gedanke unter Den Deutschen pleading with the German people to gradually become more Nordic through only allowing blondes to breed. The race theorists of the Nazis had a word for it, Aufnordung (additional Nordicization). Hitler said in Table Talks that it made him happy to see how many more Nordic children were running around in Bavaria than before and that the SS could be sent to places where the racial material was insufficiently Nordic for improvement. They absolutely viewed non-Nordic phenotypes as a problem to be corrected after the war with breeding programs.
>>18070245I'm not suggesting they didn't favor Nordic aesthetics, they clearly did. But that's my whole point.If a bunch of mestizos wanted to invent a race theory solely to make them look good, why the hell would they come up with Spanish supremacism. They'd just come up with hybrid vigor mestizo supremacism.
>>18070264It wasn't just aesthetic, they believed that people with those features constituted a separate "Nordic race" that should have reseeded all of Germany with their genetics replacing other people.
>>18070276Yes, I know, that's the Nordicism being discussed.>replacedMore like bleaching than replacing, but that's arguably semantics on a long enough timeline.
>>18067501>The brown skinned, race mixed detritus inhabiting formally white regions are insecure and retarded, so they lash out at the their betters while trying to claim they have legitimacy. That is nordacism, a perverse projection and inversion of the truth, crafted by the dark to destroy the light./thread
Ugh, projection bros?
>>18064185If anything Italians became more "pale" from all the germanic invasions. Genetic studies on original latins show they were darker then modern italians and closest to south italians today>>18064167As for greeks, they were always dark caucasians, classical greece is founded on mix between neolithic farmers and yamnaya, both dark haired and dark eyed grouops>>18067489actually 4/6 were closest to central and north iralians and 2 were closer to south. All in all, romans genetically today cluster more with south then north italainsas for appearance>For Iron Age/Republic period, the eye color is blue in 27% of the examined and dark in the remaining 73%. Hair color is 9% blond or dark blond and 91% dark brown or black. The skin color is intermediate for 82%, intermediate or dark for 9% and dark or very dark for the remaining 9%.[90]these are higher dark features then in modern italains
>>18064307Steppe from ancient greeks comes straight from Yamnaya, who were dark haired and dark eyed with olive skin (mostly)
